Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Ladron de redcafe]

Google "Best Champions League player of all time":

https://www.givemesport.com/1613282...-the-best-players-in-champions-league-history

Cristiano Ronaldo has earned the moniker ‘Mr Champions League’ as a result of his love affair with the competition.

The debate over who is the better player between Ronaldo and Lionel Messi will stretch on for years to come, but there can be no arguing over who the No.1 in Europe’s premier club competition is.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/footbal...greatest-player-uefa-champions-league-history

https://www.goliath.com/sports/the-10-best-players-in-champions-league-history/

I haven't been able to find a single article that ranks Messi higher that's written in the last few years (there are some before Ronaldo's 4 in 5 years).

Do show some evidence how the "footballing masses" share your opinion that Messi is CL GOAT.

Beautiful. You've scoured the entire internet for a few opinion pieces about where Ronaldo ranks as a Champions League player.

I guess that must make it true.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Don't agree that WC qualifying is harder with Conmebol. Teams who failed to qualify for the WC:

2018 - Chile, Paraguay
2014 - Venezuela, Peru
2010 - Ecuador, Colombia

Uefa:

2018 - Holland, Italy, Ireland
2014 - Sweden, Denmark
2010 - Sweden, Croatia, Russia

I don't think the Conmebol group are any better than the Uefa group, if anything you can easily make case the European teams who missed out were better.

Talking about internationals, Portugal was never a regular in international tournaments before Ronaldo came along.

They qualified for 3 WCs (66, 86, 02) in their entire history before Ronaldo, they have made the last 4 in a row with him.

Euro they've also made 3 times before Ronaldo, ever since they've made every single finals tournament.

On the other hand, Argentina have only ever failed to make the WC once, with or without Messi.

Why do we care about historical performances? The squads Ronaldo had were Portugal were incredible. The fact that they beat France in the final of Euro 2016 without him contributing anything says it all. Meanwhile, Messi was creating sitters for his strikers who couldn't put them away.

 

[Cal?]

Beautiful. You've scoured the entire internet for a few opinion pieces about where Ronaldo ranks as a Champions League player.

I guess that must make it true.

According to you the footballing masses rank Messi higher in the CL, do show some evidence of what the masses think.

Why do we care about historical performances? The squads Ronaldo had were Portugal were incredible. The fact that they beat France in the final of Euro 2016 without him contributing anything says it all. Meanwhile, Messi was creating sitters for his strikers who couldn't put them away.

So you're just going to completely ignore your biased claim that Conmebol qualifying is harder?

As for Ronaldo's Portugal squads being "incredible"? That's incredibly funny.

He started off at the tail end of Portugal's golden generation with Figo, Rui Costa & co, whilst the current squad is competitive, but for many many years in between he had to rely on many mediocre players.

Are you seriously claiming Eder is better than Higuain, Aguero, Dybala & co?

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

According to you the footballing masses rank Messi higher in the CL, do show some evidence of what the masses think.

So you're just going to completely ignore your biased claim that Conmebol qualifying is harder?

As for Ronaldo's Portugal squads being "incredible"? That's incredibly funny.

He started off at the tail end of Portugal's golden generation with Figo, Rui Costa & co, whilst the current squad is competitive, but for many many years in between he had to rely on many mediocre players.

Are you seriously claiming Eder is better than Higuain, Aguero, Dybala & co?

Adding that emoji and bombarding every post with it doesn't make you look like any less of a fanboy. The fact that Portugal beat the only decent team they faced the entire euros without Ronaldo while Messi's strikers were missing sitters says it all.

Show me where I mentioned "conmebol". I'll be waiting. You're about to go on a tangent because - as usual when you're called out on making things up - you have no retort.

 

[Gehrman]

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

They're all members of the "Messi brigade".

The only unbiased ones there are Luis Figo, Bernardo Silva, Patrice Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Ryan Giggs, Sarri (asked during a pressor when he was Ronaldo's manager), Paul Scholes, Owen Hargreaves, Roy Keane, Sir Alex Ferguson, Bruno, and -most importantly - Cristiano Ronaldo himself. Wonder what they all have in common. We need more opinions from unbiased individuals like these.

 

[Gehrman]

They're all members of the "Messi brigade".

The only unbiased ones there are Luis Figo, Bernardo Silva, Patrice Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Ryan Giggs, Sarri (asked during a pressor when he was Ronaldo's manager), Paul Scholes, Owen Hargreaves, Roy Keane, Sir Alex Ferguson, and -most importantly - Cristiano Ronaldo himself. We need more opinions from unbiased individuals like these.

They actually cheated with the Giggs interview because they cut out his whole sentence. He says " "Obviously I lean towards Ronaldo a little bit because I played with him and saw him develop as a player. But Messi is a genius, he's a once in a lifetime player. It's as simple as that."

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

They actually cheated with the Giggs interview because they cut out his whole sentence. He says " "Obviously I lean towards Ronaldo a little bit because I played with him and saw him develop as a player. But Messi is a genius, he's a once in a lifetime player. It's as simple as that."

And I don't think I saw Rooney there. He's always had Messi ahead, as well, despite being Ronaldo's teammate for so long.

 

[Gehrman]

And I don't think I saw Rooney there. He's always had Messi ahead, as well, despite being Ronaldo's teammate for so long.

Rooney was in there.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Rooney was in there.

Thanks for correcting me. Must have missed him.

 

[Swoobs]

“Messi Brigate” hahaha. Ironic this term came from the Chief of the CR7 50cents army himself.

 

[MrEleson]

Why do we care about historical performances? The squads Ronaldo had were Portugal were incredible. The fact that they beat France in the final of Euro 2016 without him contributing anything says it all. Meanwhile, Messi was creating sitters for his strikers who couldn't put them away.

The Portugal squad in 2016 was incredible? That point alone renders everything else you said invalid. And why is Messi absolved from any blame? He missed sitters himself in those finals and blasted his penalty over the bar in the shoot-out against Chile (the first penalty taken on the night too). You’re acting like he did everything right and his teammates did everything wrong. The same Higuain everyone chastised scored game winning goals against the likes of Belgium at the WC, etc.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

The Portugal squad in 2016 was incredible? That point alone renders everything else you said invalid. And why is Messi absolved from any blame? He missed sitters himself in those finals and blasted his penalty over the bar in the shoot-out against Chile (the first penalty taken on the night too). You’re acting like he did everything right and his teammates did everything wrong. The same Higuain everyone chastised scored game winning goals against the likes of Belgium at the WC, etc.

You're saying the Portugal team that beat France without Ronaldo wasn't a good team compared to the Argentina team that was missing a plethora of sitters that Messi was setting up?

That alone renders your entire post irrelavant.
See how easy that was?

Come back when you have something if substance to retort with. Ad-lapidums don't quite prove your point.

 

[Cal?]

Adding that emoji and bombarding every post with it doesn't make you look like any less of a fanboy. The fact that Portugal beat the only decent team they faced the entire euros without Ronaldo while Messi's strikers were missing sitters says it all.

Show me where I mentioned "conmebol". I'll be waiting. You're about to go on a tangent because - as usual when you're called out on making things up - you have no retort.

If France are merely a "decent" team, Chile are even less, what does it say about Messi when he couldn't even beat a less than decent team?

You didn't mention Conmebol, but assuming you're aware that's the continental confederations that Argentina are a member of? You kept going on about qualifying, and since the Copa requires no qualification unlike the Euro, it's simple logic that you were talking about WC qualifying. Argentina's path to WC qualifying is the Conmbeol qualifying.

 

[Cal?]

They're all members of the "Messi brigade".

The only unbiased ones there are Luis Figo, Bernardo Silva, Patrice Evra, Rio Ferdinand, Ryan Giggs, Sarri (asked during a pressor when he was Ronaldo's manager), Paul Scholes, Owen Hargreaves, Roy Keane, Sir Alex Ferguson, Bruno, and -most importantly - Cristiano Ronaldo himself. Wonder what they all have in common. We need more opinions from unbiased individuals like these.

Most of those who said Messi are connected to him/Baraca/Argentina too

 

[Daysleeper]

If France are merely a "decent" team, Chile are even less, what does it say about Messi when he couldn't even beat a less than decent team?

You didn't mention Conmebol, but assuming you're aware that's the continental confederations that Argentina are a member of? You kept going on about qualifying, and since the Copa requires no qualification unlike the Euro, it's simple logic that you were talking about WC qualifying. Argentina's path to WC qualifying is the Conmbeol qualifying.

Qualifying for WC from South America is much harder than Europe. And again, Portugal couldn't bat Chile either, lost in penalties

 

[The Corinthian]

The squads Ronaldo had were Portugal were incredible.

This is nonsense. The Portugal squads for most of Ronaldo's playing career have always been in the shadow of the top 5-10 nations.

Argentina have always had a much better overall squad by comparison.

 

[Gehrman]

Most of those who said Messi are connected to him/Baraca/Argentina too

I counted 50 of those who picked Messi who didn't play for Barca or are from Argentina.

 

[Daysleeper]

This is nonsense. The Portugal squads for most of Ronaldo's playing career have always been in the shadow of the top 5-10 nations.

Argentina have always had a much better overall squad by comparison.

and yet Portugal went 11 matches in a row without a loss without ronaldo while Argentina nearly failed to qualify for the WC until Messi came back

 

[Cal?]

Qualifying for WC from South America is much harder than Europe. And again, Portugal couldn't bat Chile either, lost in penalties

I've already addressed that point before, how is it much harder in Conmebol than Uefa?

Don't agree that WC qualifying is harder with Conmebol. Teams who failed to qualify for the WC:

2018 - Chile, Paraguay
2014 - Venezuela, Peru
2010 - Ecuador, Colombia

Uefa:

2018 - Holland, Italy, Ireland
2014 - Sweden, Denmark
2010 - Sweden, Croatia, Russia

I don't think the Conmebol group are any better than the Uefa group, if anything you can easily make case the European teams who missed out were better.

 

[Zehner]

I've already addressed that point before, how is it much harder in Conmebol than Uefa?

Man, you're a master at this, aren't you? You really earned your former tag line. What has this to do with the point that Cristiano got to stat pad his international goal record by scoring bunches against Lithuania and San Marino or whichever country he faced so much? You don't have such teams in South America, like it or not. That's easily 10 goals you could add to Messi's Argentina record.

Anyway, let's not forget this doesn't even matter. You're again dragging people here into discussions about the areas in which it is somewhat even. Let's not forget that Messi's overall game, also for Argentina, was far better than Cristiano's for Portugal. Players and their abilities don't miracously change when they wear their country's colors or when they play in the UCL. That you try to isolate certain areas speaks volumes about your agenda. If you see the greater picture, it's quite obvious who the superior player is. This debate was settled at the very least in 2012 and Cristiano never did anything that deserved reopening it.

 

[Cal?]

I counted 50 of those who picked Messi who didn't play for Barca or are from Argentina.

Incidently, just from the first few minutes of that clip:

Zlatan - "Messi is one of a kind" one of a kind doesn’t mean better. Trump is a one of a kind politician, is he the best ever?

Mbappe – the same Mbappe who said this: “Ronaldo or Messi? Cristiano Ronaldo, for sure. I could never speak ill of him."

 

[Cal?]

Man, you're a master at this, aren't you? You really earned your former tag line. What has this to do with the point that Cristiano got to stat pad his international goal record by scoring bunches against Lithuania and San Marino or whichever country he faced so much? You don't have such teams in South America, like it or not. That's easily 10 goals you could add to Messi's Argentina record.

Anyway, let's not forget this doesn't even matter. You're again dragging people here into discussions about the areas in which it is somewhat even. Let's not forget that Messi's overall game, also for Argentina, was far better than Cristiano's for Portugal. Players and their abilities don't miracously change when they wear their country's colors or when they play in the UCL. That you try to isolate certain areas speaks volumes about your agenda. If you see the greater picture, it's quite obvious who the superior player is. This debate was settled at the very least in 2012 and Cristiano never did anything that deserved reopening it.

That was not a reply to you, that was a reply specifically to someone else claiming Conmebol qualifying is harder.

Talking about stats padding, shall we take away those goals Messi scored against Guatamala, Haiti, Hong Kong and Nicaragua? Whilst Conmebol don't have as sides as weak as San Marino, Concacaf certainly do, and many get invited to play in Copa sometimes and friendlies some other times.

Let's not pretend Messi's performance for Argentina is anything special, certainly no better than Cristiano in major tournaments.

How about 4 CLs out of 5, all time goalscoring records in the CL, the small matter of a Euro, whilst Messi getting increasingly erratic against top teams.

 

[Gehrman]

Incidently, just from the first few minutes of that clip:

Zlatan - Messi is one of a kind, one of a kind doesn’t mean better. Trump is a one of a kind politician, is he the best ever?

Mbappe – the same Mbappe who said this: “Ronaldo or Messi? Cristiano Ronaldo, for sure. I could never speak ill of him."

I was talking from this youtube video alone.

What is the source for the Mbappe quote? Because as far as I can see it posted on a CR7 fan twitter page and there is no other source for it, so unless you can provide a source I consider it made up by CR7 fanboys.

Forcing your own interpretation unto Zlatan's quote is childish as well. Anyone with a brain understands what he means. It's a bit like when Cantona and others call Messi an Alien. What do honestly think they mean by this? Anyway I'd say Phil Jones is one of kind, because he's a highly paid footballer who's most famous for making funny faces.

 

[Cal?]

and yet Portugal went 11 matches in a row without a loss without ronaldo while Argentina nearly failed to qualify for the WC until Messi came back

Argentina only lost 1 match to Brazil out of 6 internional matches he missed in the 2nd half of 2018.
As soon as Messi came back, they lost to Venezuela.

 

[The Corinthian]

and yet Portugal went 11 matches in a row without a loss without ronaldo while Argentina nearly failed to qualify for the WC until Messi came back

Ok? That sounds like good coaching more than anything.

 

[Zehner]

That was not a reply to you, that was a reply specifically to someone else claiming Conmebol qualifying is harder.

Talking about stats padding, shall we take away those goals Messi scored against Guatamala, Haiti, Hong Kong and Nicaragua? Whilst Conmebol don't have as sides as weak as San Marino, Concacaf certainly do, and many get invited to play in Copa sometimes and friendlies some other times.

Let's not pretend Messi's performance for Argentina is anything special, certainly no better than Cristiano in major tournaments.

How about 4 CLs out of 5, all time goalscoring records in the CL, the small matter of a Euro, whilst Messi getting increasingly erratic against top teams.

If you want to talk about goals so much, yes, we should. But even better, let's not talk about goals in isolation but about football.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Why do we care about historical performances? The squads Ronaldo had were Portugal were incredible. The fact that they beat France in the final of Euro 2016 without him contributing anything says it all. Meanwhile, Messi was creating sitters for his strikers who couldn't put them away.

You don't actually believe this do you? Argentina has had miles better players than Portugal over both players careers.

 

[Cal?]

I was talking from this youtube video alone.

What is the source for the Mbappe quote? Because as far as I can see it posted on a CR7 fan twitter page and there is no other source for it, so unless you can provide a source I consider it made up by CR7 fanboys.

Forcing your own interpretation unto Zlatan's quote is childish as well. Anyone with a brain understands what he means. It's a bit like when Cantona and others call Messi an Alien. What do honestly think they mean by this? Anyway I'd say Phil Jones is one of kind, because he's a highly paid footballer who's most famous for making funny faces.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/footbal...From one year to the,him when I was younger."

As for Zlatan, one of a kind doesn't mean best at all, he has been asked that question many times and mostly doesn't give a straight answer, example:

https://www.sportbible.com/football...perfect-response-on-ronaldo-vs-messi-20200929

Cantona's one is clearer, that's why I didn't challenge that.

 

[Cal?]

If you want to talk about goals so much, yes, we should. But even better, let's not talk about goals in isolation but about football.

What? Football without goals?

Something like this?



What next? F1 cars without speed, just look at their design?

 

[Zehner]

What? Football without goals?

Something like this?



What next? F1 cars without speed, just look at their design?

Yes, football without goals, that's what I wanted to talk about.

Of course I didn't mean football without goals since that would make as much sense as a conversation with you.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Why is there a sudden revival of Messi vs Ronaldo thread though, I thought the discussions would be moving towards Haaland vs Mbappe.

Maybe both is near end of their career, so its about time to sum it up?

Anyway, there is no clear winner for me. They both have a strong claim to be the best or greatest. In the end, If Messi is clearly the best, how comes Ronaldo can managed to take away 5 Ballon D'or and 5 CL away from him during his peak years? If Ronaldo is the best, how comes Messi can managed to take away 6 Ballon D'or and plenty of La Liga titles away from him too? You can have your own preference with millions of reasons, but you just can't convinced me there is clear winner.

Oh and the latest news is, Ronaldo just scored his 770 goals over the weekend, with Pele finally acknowledged his new record too. This would be another claim to be the greatest, maybe not for you, but maybe for your grandchildren. Afterall I am being taught Pele was the greatest during my childhood, because of his goals and WC. Surely in future Ronaldo maybe being taught the same too, because of his goals and CL?

 

[Zehner]

Why is there a sudden revival of Messi vs Ronaldo thread though, I thought the discussions would be moving towards Haaland vs Mbappe.

Maybe both is near end of their career, so its about time to sum it up?

Anyway, there is no clear winner for me. They both have a strong claim to be the best or greatest. In the end, If Messi is clearly the best, how comes Ronaldo can managed to take away 5 Ballon D'or and 5 CL away from him during his peak years? If Ronaldo is the best, how comes Messi can managed to take away 6 Ballon D'or and plenty of La Liga titles away from him too? You can have your own preference with millions of reasons, but you just can't convinced me there is clear winner.

Oh and the latest news is, Ronaldo just scored his 770 goals over the weekend, with Pele finally acknowledged his new record too. This would be another claim to be the greatest, maybe not for you, but maybe for your grandchildren. Afterall I am being taught Pele was the greatest during my childhood, because of his goals and WC. Surely in future Ronaldo maybe being taught the same too, because of his goals and CL?

Because Ronaldo won the CL and the Ballon D'Or isn't about the best player but the best player of the team who won the biggest title. That's not hard to understand.

These superficial arguments everytime, honestly. Why do we even bother watching football, when we can just take a look at the trophy cabinets? All hail to Clarence Seedorf, the greatest player of the previous generation. Winning three CLs with three different teams.

 

[Gehrman]

Why is there a sudden revival of Messi vs Ronaldo thread though, I thought the discussions would be moving towards Haaland vs Mbappe.

Maybe both is near end of their career, so its about time to sum it up?

Anyway, there is no clear winner for me. They both have a strong claim to be the best or greatest. In the end, If Messi is clearly the best, how comes Ronaldo can managed to take away 5 Ballon D'or and 5 CL away from him during his peak years? If Ronaldo is the best, how comes Messi can managed to take away 6 Ballon D'or and plenty of La Liga titles away from him too? You can have your own preference with millions of reasons, but you just can't convinced me there is clear winner.

Oh and the latest news is, Ronaldo just scored his 770 goals over the weekend, with Pele finally acknowledged his new record too. This would be another claim to be the greatest, maybe not for you, but maybe for your grandchildren. Afterall I am being taught Pele was the greatest during my childhood, because of his goals and WC. Surely in future Ronaldo maybe being taught the same too, because of his goals and CL?

Pelé isn't really considered the greatest of all time because of his goal record alone if that were the case we'd mention Romario, Bican and Múller more often, but because he was complete in every aspect of the game. Apart from his phenomenal goal scoring, he was still more of a nr. 10, who was 2 footed, a 10/10 dribbler, 10/10 flair and had amazing vision and passing and supreme athletic ability to boot.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Because Ronaldo won the CL and the Ballon D'Or isn't about the best player but the best player of the team who won the biggest title. That's not hard to understand.

Those superficial arguments one day drive me nuts, honestly. Why do we even bother watching football, when we can just take a look at the trophy cabinets? All hail to Clarence Seedorf, the greatest player of the previous generation. Winning three CLs with three different teams.

Yeh of course to you he isn't. But to others he is, at least during those particular years.
Oh come on don't bring up Seedorf, is he even the best player in his team when winning any of his 3 CL? You should do better than that.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Pelé isn't really considered the greatest of all time because of his goal record alone if that were the case we'd mention Romario, Bican and Múller more often, but because he was complete in every aspect of the game. Apart from his phenomenal goal scoring, he was still more of a nr. 10, who was 2 footed, a 10/10 dribbler, 10/10 flair and had amazing vision and passing and supreme athletic ability to boot.

Not only goals, but also WC. Thats exactly what I've said. Pele legacy has always been 3 WC and "1000+" goals. You can be an expert and look at every details to draw better conclusion. But the point being, when we are all just a kid, we are being taught of Pele legacy, which is, 3 WC and 1000+ goals.

 

[Zehner]

Yeh of course to you he isn't. But to others he is, at least during those particular years.
Oh come on don't bring up Seedorf, is he even the best player in his team when winning any of his 3 CL? You should do better than that.

It's actually quite easy, if you don't want me to bring up Seedorf, don't use metrics that would have him as one of the best player of his generation.

 

[Gehrman]

Not only goals, but also WC. Thats exactly what I've said. Pele legacy has always been 3 WC and "1000+" goals. You can be an expert and look at every details to draw better conclusion. But the point being, when we are all just a kid, we are being taught of Pele legacy, which is, 3 WC and 1000+ goals.

Well yes if we are kids maybe, but not if we are adults who've grown up playing the game. Not to say that Pelé's legacy in goals and trophies isn't outstanding in itself, but it's by actually watching Pelé you understand his greatness.

 

[RedRonaldo]

It's actually quite easy, if you don't want me to bring up Seedorf, don't use metrics that would have him as one of the best player of his generation.

Well when people considered Pele and Maradona are the greatest, its not only that they are part of the team winning the WC, but also they won the WC as the best player. This is the metrics everyone use throughout the football history, such as Di Stefano, who was considered GOAT just before Pele time, as he won 5 CL as best player in the world. And of course, the same also applies to Ronaldo, winning 5 CL as the best player of the world too.

And for Ronaldo case, not only he won 5 CL as best player, he is now also all time top goalscorer at the top level. Like Pele from our childhood, this will be part of Ronaldo legacy in future.

May i remind you again, Seedorf doesn't fit into that at all, he is just part of the team winning 3 CL, but he is no way anywhere near the claim to be the best player at any point of his career.

But sure, there will be other metrics some people prefer to use, such as comparing their peak level performance base on their “eye test”, and disregard their stats and career. In such cases, L.Ronaldo will be among the top, and Maradona would probably be no.1 of all time, and maybe even Ronaldinho will be up there.

And of course, Messi would have strong claim under both metrics too.

If I rank GOAT strictly under first most popular metrics (achievement/legacy/objective based):

1. Pele (2-3 WC as best player, 1200+ goals at all levels)
2. Ronaldo (5 CL as best player, all time highest 770+ official goals at top level, 5 Ballon D’ors)
3. Messi (3-4 CL as best player, 6 Ballon D’ors)
4. Di Stefano (5 CL as best player)
5. Cruyff/Beckenbauer (3 CL as best player, 3 Ballon D’or. For Beckenbauer case - 1 WC as best player; for Cruyff case - best ever player in WC while not winning it)
5. Maradona (winning WC as best ever player)

If rank GOAT strictly under 2nd most popular metrics (eye test/ subjective based):

1. Maradona
2. L.Ronaldo
3. Messi
4. Cruyff/Best/Ronaldinho
5. Pele/Ronaldo/Zidane/Beckenbauer

And overall, if combine both metrics, my choice would be (half objective half subjective)

1. Pele
2. Messi
3. Ronaldo
4. Maradona
5. Cruyff/ Di Stefano

 

[MrEleson]

Pelé isn't really considered the greatest of all time because of his goal record alone if that were the case we'd mention Romario, Bican and Múller more often, but because he was complete in every aspect of the game. Apart from his phenomenal goal scoring, he was still more of a nr. 10, who was 2 footed, a 10/10 dribbler, 10/10 flair and had amazing vision and passing and supreme athletic ability to boot.

The casual football fan doesn't know Pele is good at all these things. They indeed hear about him because of his 1000+ goal record and 3 World Cups. I rarely see people talk about other aspects of his game. He was also a monster in the air and one of the best headers of the ball ever despite his diminutive physique which I'm sure most football fans wouldn't be aware of.