Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Ladron de redcafe]

Ronaldo has a better goals per game and minutes per goal record per your table. What is "minutes per scorer"?
Looool
As for xG, that's such a meaningless argument, if they both receive the ball 30 yards from goal and Messi dribbles and loses the ball, that doesn't count; if Ronaldo shoots and misses, that counts, how is that in anyway relevant?

Messi dribbles past 6 and gets a shot off an misses while Ronaldo had a tap in from 2 yards and can't sort his feet and loses the ball.

See how easy this was?

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

@Manuel Traquete

How many of the trophies were without one of xavi or Iniesta

Ronaldo could play with scholes and Carrick to Kroos and modric.

When I bring up the trophies Messi cant win without the "core of Barcelona or Spain" it turns to his fans that it doesnt matter that he was the top scorer and that's all that matters.

It's great to see the top scorers change in the PL nearly to every year. Shows how shit the La Liga is and he simply doesnt have the guts to try out anywhere else. Now this new commander is joining Barcelona he will use that as an excuse as to retire there.

Ps. Growth Hormone Injection literally made him bigger than he naturally was.

Right. Growth hormones are the reason he's head and shoulders above Ronaldo. Makes sense.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

So you've gone with titles instead of goals now? I specifically said Ronaldo had a better goal record in La Liga which is true.

Again, failing to make CL finals count as big games, no? All those SF defeats?

You really want to use that Copa as an example? The one where Argentina beat Chile without Messi in the group stage and proceeded to LOSE to Chile with him doing nothing in 120 minutes and bottling his penalty?


Can you at least admit Messi has looked less than GOAT level in the CL for over half a decade now? That period covers quite a few years of his "peak"?

Even the most hardcore members of the Messi brigade struggle with arguing for Messi's CL record against Ronaldo, you really are breaking new ground here.

Given that Messi has outperformed Ronaldo in the Champions League, if his performances have been less than "goat level" - whatever that means - I'm not sure what that says about Ronaldo and his performances.

 

[Bebestation]

Right. Growth hormones are the reason he's head and shoulders above Ronaldo. Makes sense.

Exactly, would have not been physically even capable of playing football. That's in spain aswell. Imagine him in his whole career with or without injections in the PL. He would have needed some more.

Would have been a mouse on the pitch.

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

Exactly, would have not been physically even capable of playing football.

Would have been a mouse on the pitch.

Whatever helps you cope.

 

[fck]

It's like how the majority like Drake in rap music and youtube views when there is much much better music if you look a bit deeper that is underground.

You gotta be joking with that comparison because I see one side here that mostly uses superficial arguments like goals scored and trophies won and it's not the "Messi side".
When you look deeper and beyond the stat sheet you'll find that Messi will rightly be regarded as the better player.

 

[Gehrman]

Yeah if Messi wasn't treated for his illness he woudln't have been able to play professional football. Weird stick to beat him with.

 

[Bebestation]

Whatever helps you cope.

Yeah people dont get A levels from just viewing the test, they got to attend it. Push yourself to different hard steps and achieve it.

Mascherano, tevez, aguero, di maria, Romero, otamendi, higuain, Zabaleta and the wonderful Messi. Yet nothing to show off it.

Did you know he didnt win a copa america even

Like people will blame Argentina's squad for that but wont admit that Messi relies on the spanish team that won everything they could due to players like xavi and Iniesta.

Would messi have won the world cup with the spanish team at his back? Absolutely.

And this is what happened with Barcelona.

Plus the growth hormone injection that was needed for his career in La Liga - never mind the PL.

Sleep well.

How did he not even win a copa america!

 

[Bole Top]

Messi has always been a tier above Ronaldo.

He's up there with Pele and Maradona for me.

Ronaldo isn't at that level and never has been.

yep. for me it was always that simple.

 

[RashyForPM]

At this moment, Messi is better by a mile. Cristiano is no better than Zlatan at this moment, and I love him for his 6 seasons here. Messi, while not being as much of a big game player as he was in his prime (he was good against PSG for sure though), still can finish, dribble and pass with majestic ease, especially against the smaller sides. Ronaldo is essentially now a penalty box player/poacher, and even that, only against the smaller sides too.

As for their whole careers, it’s even imo. They both defined the previous generation of elite level football. Let’s hope Haaland and Mbappe can at least get close to them. They’re definitely currently exhibiting good signs.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I do agree, however, that goals per game isn't a good way to assess CL performance, neither is raw number goals for that matter.

Raw number goals is a better way of assessing CL performance than goals per game, because, as I said, you will play more games if your performances help your team go through.

Ronaldo holds the record for most CL goals in a single season (17), second most goals in a single season (16), and shares the record for third most goals in a single season (15) with Robert Lewandoski. He won the CL in each of those seasons. He was also the top CL goalscorer in the season in which he won the title with Manchester United (8 goals), and in the other season in which he won the title with RM, in which he scored twice in the final, three times in the semifinals, and three times in the quarterfinals and was probably his most dominating season for RM.

It's easy to defend Messi by saying that he had better internal competition (Neymar, for example, who was joint top goalscorer with Messi in 2015), or that his team was not as good.

What I don't understand is why you have to keep going further and attempt to argue that Messi's numbers are better. They really just aren't.

 

[Gehrman]

Raw number goals is a better way of assessing CL performance than goals per game, because, as I said, you will play more games if your performances help your team go through.

Ronaldo holds the record for most CL goals in a single season (17), second most goals in a single season (16), and shares the record for third most goals in a single season (15) with Robert Lewandoski. He won the CL in each of those seasons. He was also the top CL goalscorer in the season in which he won the title with Manchester United (8 goals), and in the other season in which he won the title with RM, in which he scored twice in the final, three times in the semifinals, and three times in the quarterfinals and was probably his most dominating season for RM.

It's easy to defend Messi by saying that he had better internal competition (Neymar, for example, who was joint top goalscorer with Messi in 2015), or that his team was not as good.

What I don't understand is why you have to keep going further and attempt to argue that Messi's numbers are better. They really just aren't.

I kind of agree with this. Also he might have botched in penalty in the penalty shootouts in the final in 2008, but he also scored the only goal for Man utd in the final. In 2009, he scored some stunning goals in the QF and Semi's to get us to the final. In the 2009 final we were completely outplayed by a far better team and yes also Messi was on top of his game, but Ronaldo was also unable to get some good chances on goal because we were completely outplayed. I agree, he was fairly invisble in some of Real Madrid's CL finals, but I also recollect he was playing injured in at least one of them. He might not be the overall best player in the competion in terms of dribbling and playmaking abilities, but he is without doubt the best CL marksman ever to play in the CL.

 

[NasirTimothy]

Yeah people dont get A levels from just viewing the test, they got to attend it. Push yourself to different hard steps and achieve it.

Mascherano, tevez, aguero, di maria, Romero, otamendi, higuain, Zabaleta and the wonderful Messi. Yet nothing to show off it.

Did you know he didnt win a copa america even

Like people will blame Argentina's squad for that but wont admit that Messi relies on the spanish team that won everything they could due to players like xavi and Iniesta.

Would messi have won the world cup with the spanish team at his back? Absolutely.

And this is what happened with Barcelona.

Plus the growth hormone injection that was needed for his career in La Liga - never mind the PL.

Sleep well.

How did he not even win a copa america!

This silly argument needs to come to an end. For anyone with a brain, any knowledge of football and any understanding of football history, the following is obvious:

1. Both are truly great players but neither is unequivocally the GOAT (IMO anyway)

2. Messi is better than Ronaldo. We don’t need to look at accolades (though Messi has more) or compare stats (though Messi’s are better) to determine this, it’s blindingly obvious from watching them play football. The only people who disagree with this are Portuguese people, (some) fans of the clubs Cristiano has played for and people who don’t understand the sport.

 

[Pocho]

Hardly any trophies since Xavi and Iniesta retired.

Yet he continues to be the top scorer of la Liga and his competitions. Woo! Then they talk about how Messi came up in the Finals. Seems like only the finals when Xavi and/or Iniesta were playing.

To be honest I remember how deadly Pedro was for Barcelona and how meh-ssi he was in the PL.

Win some foreign trophies please Messi when playing for another controlling team like Man City. Make this decision easier for me

I love the Messi fans in reality.

It's like how the majority like Drake in rap music and youtube views when there is much much better music if you look a bit deeper that is underground.

I believe Pedro is the GOAT

 

[Bebestation]

This silly argument needs to come to an end. For anyone with a brain, any knowledge of football and any understanding of football history, the following is obvious:

1. Both are truly great players but neither is unequivocally the GOAT (IMO anyway)

2. Messi is better than Ronaldo. We don’t need to look at accolades (though Messi has more) or compare stats (though Messi’s are better) to determine this, it’s blindingly obvious from watching them play football. The only people who disagree with this are Portuguese people, (some) fans of the clubs Cristiano has played for and people who don’t understand the sport.

Why didnt messi win a copa america?

That is just poor for the best player in the world.

Tell me the excuse?

You see how people say Maradona, Messi and Pele are the best players in the world - do you not see it's not just a coincidence that all 3 are from south america?

It's because south Americans have always had more skill and technical ability due to them being raised playing football in slums that have benefited their skill as seen by Ronaldinho.

Fans are just viewers of football so its obvious why they pick 3 south americans as the best of all time - you even see it with Brazilian Ronaldo, how some people view him greater than C Ronaldo. These fans love the magic of these players and it's what makes their jaw drop.

It doesnt matter if Giggs or Van Nistelrooy score a solo goal vs the whole opposition team - its rated different to the likes of Maradona or messi scoring a goal vs getafe.

Some fans of football dont view a players skill or technical ability as a way of judging football or even a footballing ability. Messi never struggled at Barcelona from his breakthrough to even now with rubbish managers, I never viewed him as the core to the way Barcelona played in comparison to Xavi and Iniesta- Messi was the cherry on top that made it impossible to ever beat them when everyone was there. In comparison I saw Ronaldo start of as an average player with great skill, who toned down the Skill in the PL because it's not a ball on the floor league to become more of a deadly player with minimal skill. Heading, dribbling, skill, long shots, close shots, free kicks - he has everything that Messi had except what? Skill or the technique he played with.

That's why the Ronaldo guys talk about him playing full seasons in different leagues - not saying Messi wont be the best goalscorer, but we wont see the same skill playing for a team that is not Barcelona against a team that is not getafe or real betis for whole season after whole season. Looking at how he is after Xavi and Iniesta providing a tempo for that team you would argue if he would have a better chance winning a CL with a team like Man City than being the main man at United.

 

[Pocho]

It's a race matter now

 

[Hashira]

Small problem with the CL argument: Ronaldo has played 176 CL matches, Messi 149. Messi's goal and assist ratios are both superior.

Big problem with the CL argument: these are very rudimentary measures that don't even come close to capturing the totality of a player's impact on the football field and in the case of this particular comparison Messi's superiority as an all-around player.

Finally one part of your post is the perfect example of the kind of mental gymnastics needed to fuel this "debate". During the 9 years they were both in La Liga, Messi won the league 6 times, Ronaldo won 2, in the one remaining season Messi finishead ahead; Messi beat Ronaldo in both rudimentary measures you seem to value so much and believe make Cristiano CL GOAT, goals and assists. Yet your description of the situation is that they were "matching each other blow for blow", when even by the extremely selective criteria you advocate Messi comes out clearly ahead.

What!? Are we now going to use goal-per-game or assist-per-game ratio to determine who has been better in the competition? That's bonkers. Ronaldo is the greatest player in European Cup/Champions League simply because he is actually the legitimate outright top scorer and top assister in the history of the competition. Alan Shearer has 260 PL goals in 441 appearances, with this stupid stat of goal-per-game ratio at 0.59. While somebody like Aguero has only 180 goals in 270 appearances (0.67), or Kane with only 159 goals in 235 appearances (0.68).

Yet, Shearer is widely regarded by fans, pundits and media alike as the greatest scorer in the history of the Premier League because he is the outright record highest scorer in the competition. And secondly, because of his fantastic consistency and longevity of delivering in the competition for so many years. There is a good reason why we do not see even the most staunch supporters of Aguero or Kane trying to argue otherwise. Because they know they will get laugh at for trying to bring up the stupid stat of higher goal-per-game ratio as possible argument for either of them being a more formidable PL goal scorer than Shearer.

Football is a simple game. We do not need to have so many different kind of statistics or metric in our sport. Things like goal-per-game or other weird stuff like xG, xGA are things that yanks love to quantify at every opportunity they can with sports in their country. For what it's worth, they can bugger off from football with their stats game. Haaland has scored 20 Champions League goals in 14 appearances. Now, that gives him a goal-per-game ratio of 1.42. That is more than a goal per game. Does that now put him as a greater Champions League scorer than Ronaldo or Messi? If a player is to debut in the Champions League tomorrow, and he bags a brace. That means he has a goal-per-game ratio of 2.0. Does this guy becomes a greater Champions League scorer than Ronaldo and Messi too? I swear you can't make this up.

According to a post from another member here

By the way, I was curious how both stats looked while both were in La Liga so I did a quick research (I know, I'm a geek..). Here's the result:

player	goals per game	minutes per goal	minutes per scorer
Messi	0.99	85.21	60.85
Ronaldo	1.03	84.07	65

Ronaldo has a higher goal-per-game ratio than Messi in the La Liga. Or to be more precise, Ronaldo also has a lower minutes-per-game ratio than Messi. That means it took him a quicker time to score a goal than Messi did. Does that mean Ronaldo is a greater scorer than Messi in the La Liga now? Not in my opinion. Despite his lower goal-per-game/minute ratio, Messi is the greatest scorer in the La Liga because he is outright record highest scorer of the competition. Anybody who says Ronaldo is a greater scorer than Messi in La Liga deserves to be laughed at.

When we take in to account that 67 of Ronaldo's 135 goals scored by him in Champions League have came in the knockout phase of the competition, that means very nearly half of them, it becomes all the more impressive. There is no tougher game in the modern era of football to excel in than the knockout stages of the Champions League, ever since it eclipsed the World Cup as the holy grail of footballing masterpiece several decades ago. And year-in, year out, Ronaldo had excelled and scored a staggering amount of goals on a consistent basis. The supporters of Pele and Maradona can continue to downplay Messi and Ronaldo for not breaking their duck in the knockout stages of the WC. But as far I am concerned, the accomplishment of Ronaldo and Messi has outshone Pele and Maradona's achievements in the World Cup.

People like to label Lukaku as a flat track bully due to his piss poor record against the top teams. Not a single Leicester supporter in their right mind would choose to swap Vardy for Lukaku if they are given a chance to do so. Because like Lukaku, Vardy is also a brilliant scorer. However unlike Lukaku, Vardy scores a ton of goals against both the top sides and the non-top sides. Vardy also never gets labelled as anything close to a flat track bully simply due to his outstanding record against the top sides. Ronaldo has scored extremely important goals in multiple occasions. When his team needed him, the man more often than not stood out to make a pivotal difference. The number of times he had done so is greater than anyone else in the history of the competition. That is why Ronaldo is the greatest Champions League player of all time.

 

[Zehner]

What!? Are we now going to use goal-per-game or assist-per-game ratio to determine who has been better in the competition? That's bonkers. Ronaldo is the greatest player in European Cup/Champions League simply because he is actually the legitimate outright top scorer and top assister in the history of the competition. Alan Shearer has 260 PL goals in 441 appearances, with this stupid stat of goal-per-game ratio at 0.59. While somebody like Aguero has only 180 goals in 270 appearances (0.67), or Kane with only 159 goals in 235 appearances (0.68).

Yet, Shearer is widely regarded by fans, pundits and media alike as the greatest scorer in the history of the Premier League because he is the outright record highest scorer in the competition. And secondly, because of his fantastic consistency and longevity of delivering in the competition for so many years. There is a good reason why we do not see even the most staunch supporters of Aguero or Kane trying to argue otherwise. Because they know they will get laugh at for trying to bring up the stupid stat of higher goal-per-game ratio as possible argument for either of them being a more formidable PL goal scorer than Shearer.

Football is a simple game. We do not need to have so many different kind of statistics or metric in our sport. Things like goal-per-game or other weird stuff like xG, xGA are things that yanks love to quantify at every opportunity they can with sports in their country. For what it's worth, they can bugger off from football with their stats game. Haaland has scored 20 Champions League goals in 14 appearances. Now, that gives him a goal-per-game ratio of 1.42. That is more than a goal per game. Does that now put him as a greater Champions League scorer than Ronaldo or Messi? If a player is to debut in the Champions League tomorrow, and he bags a brace. That means he has a goal-per-game ratio of 2.0. Does this guy becomes a greater Champions League scorer than Ronaldo and Messi too? I swear you can't make this up.

According to a post from another member here



Ronaldo has a higher goal-per-game ratio than Messi in the La Liga. Or to be more precise, Ronaldo also has a lower minutes-per-game ratio than Messi. That means it took him a quicker time to score a goal than Messi did. Does that mean Ronaldo is a greater scorer than Messi in the La Liga now? Not in my opinion. Despite his lower goal-per-game/minute ratio, Messi is the greatest scorer in the La Liga because he is outright record highest scorer of the competition. Anybody who says Ronaldo is a greater scorer than Messi in La Liga deserves to be laughed at.

When we take in to account that 67 of Ronaldo's 135 goals scored by him in Champions League have came in the knockout phase of the competition, that means very nearly half of them, it becomes all the more impressive. There is no tougher game in the modern era of football to excel in than the knockout stages of the Champions League, ever since it eclipsed the World Cup as the holy grail of footballing masterpiece several decades ago. And year-in, year out, Ronaldo had excelled and scored a staggering amount of goals on a consistent basis. The supporters of Pele and Maradona can continue to downplay Messi and Ronaldo for not breaking their duck in the knockout stages of the WC. But as far I am concerned, the accomplishment of Ronaldo and Messi has outshone Pele and Maradona's achievements in the World Cup.

People like to label Lukaku as a flat track bully due to his piss poor record against the top teams. Not a single Leicester supporter in their right mind would choose to swap Vardy for Lukaku if they are given a chance to do so. Because like Lukaku, Vardy is also a brilliant scorer. However unlike Lukaku, Vardy scores a ton of goals against both the top sides and the non-top sides. Vardy also never gets labelled as anything close to a flat track bully simply due to his outstanding record against the top sides. Ronaldo has scored extremely important goals in multiple occasions. When his team needed him, the man more often than not stood out to make a pivotal difference. The number of times he had done so is greater than anyone else in the history of the competition. That is why Ronaldo is the greatest Champions League player of all time.

I appreciate your effort but if you want to go into detail this is still not in depth enough. You can't just say "he scored more goals, he's the better goal scorer". There are so many things that play a role in here. I'm working in marketing, we do lots of A/B tests to compare campaigns against each other and if we change more that one single variable, the test is meaningless and can't be read anymore. But you're not changing one variable, you're changing dozens if not hundreds. Team mates, daily form, position, difficulty of finishes and so forth.

Every statistician will tell you this: Football can't be quantified, not even if you look at isolated disciplines like goal scoring. People make jokes about Messi fans and their love for the eye test but if you're actually an analytical person and know what you're talking about then you also know that the statistics provided in this thread are superficial and have no significance whatsoever. Even advanced statistics like the xG ones are still very, very flawed and are only valuable if applied correctly. So the only reasonable way to assess this discussion is qualitative analysis, aka the eye test.

To illustrate my point: What your statistic for instance doesn't tell you is the following: Messi played as a false 9, a second striker, an inverted winger or an attacking midfielder. He never occupied the striker role nor did he occupy the areas strikers typically operate in. This makes it much easier to install a prolific goal scorer (Suarez, Eto'o, David Villa, Alexis Sanchez, hell even Ibrahimovic) next to him than to Ronaldo, whose goal record at Madrid cannibalized Benzema's when they both played together. And again, I'll probably mention this in every post in this thread now: This is only in regards to goal scoring. If you consider the greater scheme of things and other areas of play by which a footballer can contribute to the attack of his team, then Messi is superior in every single one of them.

 

[Daysleeper]

Hardly any trophies since Xavi and Iniesta retired.

brain dead moment for you as Messi has 8 trophies since xavi left.
As for copa America chile beat Portugal as well in confederations cup which Ronaldo played and lost on top of Ronaldo get knocked out by Uruguay in the last World Cup. He wouldn’t win copa America either

 

[Pocho]

What!? Are we now going to use goal-per-game or assist-per-game ratio to determine who has been better in the competition? That's bonkers. Ronaldo is the greatest player in European Cup/Champions League simply because he is actually the legitimate outright top scorer and top assister in the history of the competition. Alan Shearer has 260 PL goals in 441 appearances, with this stupid stat of goal-per-game ratio at 0.59. While somebody like Aguero has only 180 goals in 270 appearances (0.67), or Kane with only 159 goals in 235 appearances (0.68).

Yet, Shearer is widely regarded by fans, pundits and media alike as the greatest scorer in the history of the Premier League because he is the outright record highest scorer in the competition. And secondly, because of his fantastic consistency and longevity of delivering in the competition for so many years. There is a good reason why we do not see even the most staunch supporters of Aguero or Kane trying to argue otherwise. Because they know they will get laugh at for trying to bring up the stupid stat of higher goal-per-game ratio as possible argument for either of them being a more formidable PL goal scorer than Shearer.

Football is a simple game. We do not need to have so many different kind of statistics or metric in our sport. Things like goal-per-game or other weird stuff like xG, xGA are things that yanks love to quantify at every opportunity they can with sports in their country. For what it's worth, they can bugger off from football with their stats game. Haaland has scored 20 Champions League goals in 14 appearances. Now, that gives him a goal-per-game ratio of 1.42. That is more than a goal per game. Does that now put him as a greater Champions League scorer than Ronaldo or Messi? If a player is to debut in the Champions League tomorrow, and he bags a brace. That means he has a goal-per-game ratio of 2.0. Does this guy becomes a greater Champions League scorer than Ronaldo and Messi too? I swear you can't make this up.

According to a post from another member here



Ronaldo has a higher goal-per-game ratio than Messi in the La Liga. Or to be more precise, Ronaldo also has a lower minutes-per-game ratio than Messi. That means it took him a quicker time to score a goal than Messi did. Does that mean Ronaldo is a greater scorer than Messi in the La Liga now? Not in my opinion. Despite his lower goal-per-game/minute ratio, Messi is the greatest scorer in the La Liga because he is outright record highest scorer of the competition. Anybody who says Ronaldo is a greater scorer than Messi in La Liga deserves to be laughed at.

When we take in to account that 67 of Ronaldo's 135 goals scored by him in Champions League have came in the knockout phase of the competition, that means very nearly half of them, it becomes all the more impressive. There is no tougher game in the modern era of football to excel in than the knockout stages of the Champions League, ever since it eclipsed the World Cup as the holy grail of footballing masterpiece several decades ago. And year-in, year out, Ronaldo had excelled and scored a staggering amount of goals on a consistent basis. The supporters of Pele and Maradona can continue to downplay Messi and Ronaldo for not breaking their duck in the knockout stages of the WC. But as far I am concerned, the accomplishment of Ronaldo and Messi has outshone Pele and Maradona's achievements in the World Cup.

People like to label Lukaku as a flat track bully due to his piss poor record against the top teams. Not a single Leicester supporter in their right mind would choose to swap Vardy for Lukaku if they are given a chance to do so. Because like Lukaku, Vardy is also a brilliant scorer. However unlike Lukaku, Vardy scores a ton of goals against both the top sides and the non-top sides. Vardy also never gets labelled as anything close to a flat track bully simply due to his outstanding record against the top sides. Ronaldo has scored extremely important goals in multiple occasions. When his team needed him, the man more often than not stood out to make a pivotal difference. The number of times he had done so is greater than anyone else in the history of the competition. That is why Ronaldo is the greatest Champions League player of all time.

Another one here that measures Messi by his goalscoring. It works for CR, the thing is that Messi is so much more than that. That's why one is the GOAT and the other a great goalscorer.

 

[Bebestation]

brain dead moment for you as Messi has 8 trophies since xavi left.
As for copa America chile beat Portugal as well in confederations cup which Ronaldo played and lost on top of Ronaldo get knocked out by Uruguay in the last World Cup. He wouldn’t win copa America either

I said xavi and Iniesta has retired not xavi or Iniesta specifically.

 

[MrEleson]

Based on? Messi actually has a better scoring ratio in the CL, by a considerable margin. Yes, Ronaldo has the record for most raw number of goals... because he played far more matches. There's at least a 50/50 chance Messi will retire as the all-time top scorer btw, if this happens does he suddently become GOAT of CL in your eyes or?

Ronaldo's scoring ratio in the CL is actually skewed by his formative years at United where he was playing as a conventional right midfielder in a classic 4-4-2. He didn't score in his first 25-30 games of the competition. When you take a closer look at the stats, you'll see that his ratio is actually superior to Messi from the time he became an actual forward and in the 9 year timeframe he was at Madrid, he scored significantly more goals than Messi in less games. He dominated the competition throughout the 10's in every conceivable way. Here is just one of his endless records in the competition:



He finished topscorer 7 years in a row and in each of those seasons he finished with above 10 goals. No other player has recorded more than 10 goals more than twice.

 

[MrEleson]

Agreed.

Ronaldo has the most amount of both goals (135) and assists (42) in the history of the European Cup/Champions League since its' introduction in 1955.

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/history/rankings/players/goals_scored/
https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/history/rankings/players/assists/

Messi is 2nd top scorer (120) and has the 2nd most number of assists (36) in the competition's history. Ronaldo has 5 CL wins and was ever-present in each of those successful campaigns. Messi has 4 CL to his name, and only played a bit part role in the first win in 05/06 (1 goal in 6 games) whilst not making the bench in the final vs Arsenal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_UEFA_Champions_League_Final#Details

Ronaldo also has won the most amount of games by any player in the competition (112). The only other player who won more than 100 matches in the Champions League is Casillas (101). This is a testament to Ronaldo's incredible consistency and longevity. The supporters of Pele and Maradona love to point out that neither Messi nor Ronaldo has scored in a knockout game of the World Cup as a measuring stick to downplay them. However, Ronaldo has 67 goals in the knockout phase of the Champions League. While Messi has 49.

The WC used to be the holy grail of football because it was a platform that gave us the opportunity to see the best players in the world facing one another. But this is not the case anymore since the injection of cash in to European club football scene in the last few decades. The European clubs now have the best players across the globe playing for them because essentially all of them fancied a move abroad to Europe due to the wages and exposure. The WC though remains a more prestigious competition for a footballer to win due to its' storied history, the fact that it is played only once every four years which makes it a more elusive prize, and the honour of winning it for your country gives them a sense of pride of being a national hero. Nonetheless, it's clear as day that the Champions League offers the highest level of quality in the modern era and hence, is the realest testament to a player's ability.

Ronaldo has scored in 3 separate CL finals, no other players has scored in more. He has scored 4 goals in Champions League final, again no one has scored as many. A tremendous amount of his goals in the competition have been crucial goals that were either equalisers or match winners. He has consistently delivered on the biggest stage of them all. So even an argument such as a flat track bully or stat padding would be nonsense. Of course, Ronaldo does not always have a stormer of a final (e.g. 08/09 vs Barcelona, 17/18 vs Liverpool) and requires a team mate to step up to help win it. That's normal because after all football is a team game and no one player is perfect throughout the entire competition. However it's important to bear in mind that Ronaldo was always highly instrumental in spearheading his team to the final in those finals that he could not replicate the same impact. They would not have even made the finals without Ronaldo to begin with.

Ronaldo dominated the Premier League during an era when the PL was at the peak of its quality. From 2006/07 to 2008/09, most of the final 4 spots in the Champions League were monopolised by English outfits

2006/07 - Milan, Liverpool, United, Chelsea
2007/08 - United, Chelsea, Barcelona, Liverpool
2008/09 - Barcelona, United, Chelsea, Arsenal

During this time, 9 out of the 12 possible Champions League semi finalists were English clubs. United x3, Chelsea x3, Liverpool x 2, Arsenal x1. While only 3 were non-English (Barca x2, Milan x1). Ronaldo then went to Spain and took little to no time to settle at a new club in a new country. During this time La Liga overtook the Premier League to become the strongest league in the world. Ronaldo and Messi were matching each other blow for blow there, with those two smashing records at an astonishing rate like no other business. Ronaldo then moved to Juventus and thus far in his 3rd season, has outscored any other player in the Serie A since his arrival. This shows that the man can certainly succeed in different countries, different climates, under different managers with different approaches and tactical set-ups. He is the most complete goal scorer I have witnessed. Long range strikes, 1 v 1, overhead bicycle kicks, calm composed finishing and fierce angled finishing from multiple angles, backheels, brilliant solo runs, headers, etc. It's a vast plethora.

Do I think that he is a better player than Messi though? No, I actually do not. They are both level in my eyes. I think Messi is the more naturally talented of the two and more complete player. However Ronaldo's mental aspects (e.g. determination, sheer athletic dedication and drive to excel) really impresses me. And I'm very sure if even I could feel this through my television screen and in the stands, then certainly this influence could inspire his team mates who are sharing the same pitch as him. In the past, I do not like him because I think he is a petulant prima donna with a huge ego. However in recent years he seems to have mellowed down a lot probably due to him maturing. And I started being less harsh on him. If my team is playing in an important game/cup final, and I could only pick between one of Ronaldo or Messi to play for my team, I would be more confident and assured of my team's chances of winning with Ronaldo. However, if given a choice to build my team around a player for a league campaign, I would be more confident of winning the title with Messi in it.

Great post.

 

[giorno]

Another one here that measures Messi by his goalscoring. It works for CR, the thing is that Messi is so much more than that. That's why one is the GOAT and the other a great goalscorer.

For all that "so much more" if Messi didn't score as much as he did he'd be Neymar, and nobody in their right mind would ever compare him to Cristiano

The insane scoring is a very big reason why Messi is Messi

 

[United58]

It's a race matter now

It's 2021, people will say absolutely anything with PC wokeness in full swing

For me, Messi's been the slightly better player overall, while Ronaldo's had the slightly better career. Messi's tailed off a bit in his 30s (though has he had a renaissance recently?), while Ronaldo at 36 is declining at a slower rate. Be interesting to see how Messi plays at 36, especially given he's much less physically reliant than Ronaldo.

 

[Pocho]

For all that "so much more" if Messi didn't score as much as he did he'd be Neymar, and nobody in their right mind would ever compare him to Cristiano

The insane scoring is a very big reason why Messi is Messi

You still don't get it. His insane goalscoring is a bonus of what he brings. He can be MOTM without scoring or assisting. That's how good he is. Ronaldo can't for obvious reasons.

 

[giorno]

You still don't get it. His insane goalscoring is a bonus of what he brings. He can be MOTM without scoring or assisting. That's how good he is. Ronaldo can't for obvious reasons.

No, it isn't. His goalscoring is what he brings. Everything else is the bonus. You can be MOTM without scoring or assisting all you want, you still can't compare to a guy who gives you a goal a game, unless you can do the same.

 

[MrEleson]

You still don't get it. His insane goalscoring is a bonus of what he brings. He can be MOTM without scoring or assisting. That's how good he is. Ronaldo can't for obvious reasons.

Depends which version of Ronaldo. Obviously in his younger years (particularly at United), his game wasn't even about scoring. He became World Class before he became a historic scorer. His 06/07 season is widely considered as one of the finest in EPL history but he didn't score an insane amount that year.

 

[MrEleson]

No, it isn't. His goalscoring is what he brings. Everything else is the bonus. You can be MOTM without scoring or assisting all you want, you still can't compare to a guy who gives you a goal a game, unless you can do the same.

True. Messi without scoring would make him a quicker David Silva without the defensive nous and work-rate and nobody compares prime David Silva to any version of CR7.

 

[Pocho]

True. Messi without scoring would make him a quicker David Silva without the defensive nous and work-rate and nobody compares prime David Silva to any version of CR7.

You really believe that Messi with less goals is only a quicker David Silva? Maybe I should watch more golf and forget about football.

 

[MrEleson]

You really believe that Messi with less goals is only a quicker David Silva? Maybe I should watch more golf and forget about football.

Without goals, he'd be like Hazard.
Without pace & goals, his skill-set is similar to Silva's no? The dribbling, one-touch passing, vision, etc.

 

[Pocho]

Without goals, he'd be like Hazard.
Without pace & goals, his skill-set is similar to Silva's no? The dribbling, one-touch passing, vision, etc.

Ronaldo without the goals? Who'd he be? Braithwaite maybe? I'll take a Silva

 

[MrEleson]

Ronaldo without the goals? Who'd he be? Braithwaite maybe? I'll take a Silva

The point wasn't to say he wasn't good but that Silva would never be compared to Ronaldo.

And your take was even worse than mine if you think prime Ronaldo without goals is Braithwaite.

 

[Pocho]

The point wasn't to say he wasn't good but that Silva would never be compared to Ronaldo.

And your take was even worse than mine if you think prime Ronaldo without goals is Braithwaite.

I think they are both ridiculous, but you started.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

For all that "so much more" if Messi didn't score as much as he did he'd be Neymar, and nobody in their right mind would ever compare him to Cristiano

The insane scoring is a very big reason why Messi is Messi

I think you can argue Neymar's been clearly better than Ronaldo since 2017, but that's not a popular opinion for football fans.

 

[Cal?]

Given that Messi has outperformed Ronaldo in the Champions League, if his performances have been less than "goat level" - whatever that means - I'm not sure what that says about Ronaldo and his performances.

That's only true in your own bubble of reality, meanwhile in the real world, Ronaldo is the CL GOAT by some distant.

 

[Daysleeper]

True. Messi without scoring would make him a quicker David Silva without the defensive nous and work-rate and nobody compares prime David Silva to any version of CR7.

And what would Ronaldo be without the scoring? A cavani? United era Ronaldo without goals would be Leroy sane?

 

[Daysleeper]

Ronaldo has scored in 3 separate CL finals, no other players has scored in more. He has scored 4 goals in Champions League final, again no one has scored as many.

I disagree with this for the fact that while Ronaldo has more CL goals, Messi is in fact the better finals performer.

29 goals and has given 14 assists in 35 finals played for Messi

compared to just 20 goals and 2 assist for Ronaldo.

Ronaldo also was painfully mediocre in the 2008, 2014, 2016 and 2018 CL. His 2014 penalty was meaningless, and the other finals outside of 2017 and perhaps 2009 was he actually pretty good.

but i also have no problem saying Ronaldo was the better CL player than Messi, but when looking at the body of work as a whole, Messi is the superior player by nearly every meaningful metric.

 

[Raredaredevil]

It's a race matter now

It's so ridiculous, christ some of the stuff I read here just boggles my mind. Imagine you can't win an argument anymore on goals per ratio and skills and you bring race into the argument. I always knew Ronaldo supporters are so insecure and embarrassing but this takes the cake. I'm done.

 

[giorno]

I think you can argue Neymar's been clearly better than Ronaldo since 2017, but that's not a popular opinion for football fans.

Would you say Neymar is a better a player than Cristiano historically?