Ronaldo at Messis age was dominating the CL?
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
- Status
If scoring equals dominating for you, yes he did. For me, "dominating" is one the worst fitting term to describe Cristiano's performances during those title wins. "Dominating" applies when a player has a high "density" of good actions throughout 90 minutes and that's just not Cristiano's style these days and hasn't been since around 2013. Messi dominates games, Cristiano decides games.
Messi was better than Ronaldo when they were both in their '20s, and CR has been better than Messi in their '30s. Simple as that.
Other sides could not live with him, he carried an entire attack on his back.
Thats dominating. He influenced every fame agaonst the top sides in Europe, nobody could stop him.
I'm sorry, but a player with maybe 3-4 good attacking actions over the span of 90 minutes will never dominate a game for me. You can say he's decisive, that he edges games, tips them, is there when it counts/the team needs him, always a threat, but dominating? Come on. Even in the matches in which he scored three goals he was invisible for the vast majority of the playing time. That is like the exact opposite of the meaning of the word "to dominate".
Also, he carried an entire attack on his back? In which reality did he do that and how can I watch it?
Your lack of acknowledgement of Cristiano's UCL exploits is petty.
You can evaluate Messi, without flaking Cristiano.
Bullshit, I'm not flaking Cristiano. I admire him and his performances were incredible (and still are by the way) but let's not rewrite history and pretend that did things he simply didn't do. If you're claiming he dominated those games, this just couldn't be further from the truth for me and that's what I'm going to point out. There were no great passes, no great dribbles, he was there when it counted and converted his chances, at times in absolutely outstanding fashion, and that is enough to call those games great performances by him. There's no need to pretend he ran the game and add things to the narrative that didn't happen.
Not problem of people if your version of dominating means having to play like Messi, being a creative outlet and goal scorer of the team at same time.
Cristiano's job was to score goals and he did that. He dominated in that sense. He did dominate UCL. Your definition of domination doesn't change it.
You are clutching straws with saying, oh he only two three moments of brilliance otherwise he was invisible and loads of crap like that. Sorry you are biased against Cristiano, possibly because of how annoying Cristiano fanboys are, but you have become what you stood against.
Sorry man but that's nonsense. It might seem that way because I'm arguing against guys like Sporting but I really do appreciate him and still enjoy watching him play. I'd be arguing in Ronaldo's favor if people made ridiculous arguments in favor of Messi. But currently we're discussing if Cristiano dominated games although he was the Real Madrid player in that tournament with probably the least amount of actions on the ball. I argued the same way regarding Lewandowski. That's one example of me defending Cristiano against unfair criticism by the way.
And no, you don't need to play like Messi to deserve it. Midfielders like Xavi, Iniesta, Modric or Kroos dominated game after game. CBs like van Dijk are dominating games. Cristiano himself has done it countless times in his United and early Madrid years. Kane has done it recently. As I said, "dominance" equals a high density of great plays for me which necessarily means much time on the ball and being involved a lot. And Cristiano hasn't done it during his CL wins with Madrid, at least not during the three consecutive ones. Those were great performances of course, his goal record speaks for itself, just not dominant ones, no matter how you put it.
If deciding means you don’t blow 3+ goal leads in 3 consecutive seasons then I know which one I prefer.
Also having double the output of anyone in the history of the game in the knockouts of the biggest competition in the history of the game where no one even comes close to him then yes that is very much dominating.
It’s always been hilarious to me the double standard of “CR fan boys” when the fact is Ronaldo has always been judged at a different light then Messi. Messi is the “golden child “ who can do no wrong and if he plays like shit or anything there is always an excuse all the time.
It’s just funny how in these debates one side brings examples and facts and the other brings the “IF” or “but” all the time.
Example:
“CR fanboys”
Ronaldo won a major comp with Portugal
Messi fans “but what if” higuain scored its all his fault, but what if he didn’t miss the penalty.
blows a 4-0 lead “but what if” dembele scored 3-0 lead “but he made chances”
Messi fans “Ronaldo did nothing ALL GAME all he did was scored 3 goals when his team was down 0-2, all he did was score 3 goals and kill the game, all he did was score 2 goals in a final, all he did was score the winning goal. Besides that he was awful. Wow he scored 3 goals in a CL semi final but what else did he do huh??!”
And the list goes on. Messi fans sleep on the Ronaldo thread if he plays bad or something “oh look see!! He should go to MLS!! Haha”
“CR fanboys” dam MessI had been poor
“wow how can you say that that’s so uncalled for omg, wow your just trying to start a debate, wow no actually he’s been great.
It’s been like this for an eternity now there is such double standard in these “debates” it’s almost sickening
It’s just funny how in these debates one side brings examples and facts and the other brings the “IF” or “but” all the time.
Example:
“CR fanboys”
Ronaldo won a major comp with Portugal
Messi fans “but what if” higuain scored its all his fault, but what if he didn’t miss the penalty.
blows a 4-0 lead “but what if” dembele scored 3-0 lead “but he made chances”
Messi fans “Ronaldo did nothing ALL GAME all he did was scored 3 goals when his team was down 0-2, all he did was score 3 goals and kill the game, all he did was score 2 goals in a final, all he did was score the winning goal. Besides that he was awful. Wow he scored 3 goals in a CL semi final but what else did he do huh??!”
And the list goes on. Messi fans sleep on the Ronaldo thread if he plays bad or something “oh look see!! He should go to MLS!! Haha”
“CR fanboys” dam MessI had been poor
“wow how can you say that that’s so uncalled for omg, wow your just trying to start a debate, wow no actually he’s been great.
It’s been like this for an eternity now there is such double standard in these “debates” it’s almost sickening
SAD!
Exactly it is sad.
Thats a million miles from the truth bar a very, very vocal minority on both sides (people like Cal etc.. (remember him)). What people say is Ronaldo didn't even play the final, he was good in the comp in general. What they are implying is not a failure on either's part but minor things out of their control is what separates them in terms of international success. With Messi he played the final and played quite well. Had Higuain shooting boots on or the coach played Kun he'd likely be a WC winner but he isn't.
The reality is though that despite this, Messi gets called out for being poor when he's played quite well all the time because he hasn't beaten 5 players or banged in a hattrick. Its similar to Pep's Barca or current City winning 1-0 instead 85-0 (they are accussed of being poor because they didn't put in a 10/10), CR7 gets judged these days purely on goals and is only called out for being poor when he doesn't score which is unfair, he has bad game where he scores and great games where he doesn't same as Leo. Its two sets of idiots who are blinded to their hero's nemisis talents flinging shit.
For me personally, it is kind of telling that this is a United forum and their best ever player and probably the 2nd best footballer of all time (with an argument for best) is getting well beaten in the poll. On other forums I'd imagine this is a lot more one sided for whatever reason. Truth is there is probably no wrong answer here, but the majority will always plump for Leo and a strong majority at that.
Didn't think this would be the case 1 year ago, but I think Ronaldo is a better player than Messi now(emphasis on now) for your team.
Thought this debate is dying ever since Ron left and now they're in different league.
Guess not.
I do anticipate its returning once in a while people talked about great players, or more common since they're still playing that is when Juve and Barca are facing each other in CL. Or Portugal vs Argentina. Not happening anytime sooner.
Guess not.I do anticipate its returning once in a while people talked about great players, or more common since they're still playing that is when Juve and Barca are facing each other in CL. Or Portugal vs Argentina. Not happening anytime sooner.
This is the first large sample poll I've ever seen with Ronaldo close to Messi. Makes sense as Messi has been pretty poor this season and Ronaldo is putting in good numbers in Serie A.
In other news:
https://www.sportbible.com/football...ining-with-lionel-messi-at-barcelona-20201125
That poll is disingenuous though, it was only open for a short period of time whilst Messi was doing well. Noticeably it's been closed for most of the time period where Ronaldo won multiple CLs and Messi has struggled (in the CL at least).
It’s a shame Messi level has been dropping a lot this season. It such a mess in Barca now, he should probably leave Barca next season.
I am not sure if City is good for him as Premier league is too physical/demanding for his age. No clubs could afford his wage in Italy, except Juventus. Don’t see Juventus could afford to play both Ronaldo and Messi at the same time.
Maybe PSG to team up with Neymar again? Easier to get back to his goalscoring form in farmers league, at least he could still enjoy a few more years of winning trophies before his retirement.
I am not sure if City is good for him as Premier league is too physical/demanding for his age. No clubs could afford his wage in Italy, except Juventus. Don’t see Juventus could afford to play both Ronaldo and Messi at the same time.
Maybe PSG to team up with Neymar again? Easier to get back to his goalscoring form in farmers league, at least he could still enjoy a few more years of winning trophies before his retirement.
Messi has been mentally off from Barca the entire season. They are going to let him leave next summer. Him staying is just not helping anyone at the moment.
Barca have become a ridiculously toxic club it's insane when you think about it. Every thing around the club just oozes toxicity. Koeman might or might not be a good manager, but the current situation in the club simply can't help anyone to perform or do well. The atmosphere is so toxic and it's getting worse per day. They are doomed.
Barca have become a ridiculously toxic club it's insane when you think about it. Every thing around the club just oozes toxicity. Koeman might or might not be a good manager, but the current situation in the club simply can't help anyone to perform or do well. The atmosphere is so toxic and it's getting worse per day. They are doomed.
Totally, maybe having Messi there, against his will, might have some comercial advantages but aside from that they're sabotaging themselves at this point so bad it's ridiculous. Ideally everyone would like him to stay and return to his best version but once he stated he wanted to leave there's no point on forcing him to stay and on the other hand it could had been beneficial, in the long run, for them had they handled this with more intelligence.
He did well last night. It's the story of he and Ronaldo in their last years. Messi's all round game was better but Ronaldo is the one that got on the score sheet and won
You really believe that? Messi is 170cm tall and nothing short lasts long. The sad thing is that he could have been taller. It's like what Davenport Birtles said about Piersmorgansmum "I don't accept that a lickle bitch = a lickle lickin" but punditry has changed since Clough took Whiteside to Skegness for pills. Adrian Chiles drinkers like me know how to can we please just all put V. Jones in a camp? Despite the fakt *** Baggio took Buddhism to that next level, Atkinson always had that desire to wear a tan on Saturday come 3 o clock. That poll is disingenuous though
His finishing is still a bit off. Didn't get to finish from quality positions (which is highly worrying for Barcelona) but he took so many shots and given his usual ridiculously good shooting technique, at least one of those usually goes in. He was very good between the lines though, played many subtle passes that advanced the game and generally overplayed many defenders through his dribbles. Cristiano's best action from open play was probably the nice dribble that let to the first penalty. After that his most reminiscent play was probably the dispossession of Messi. His two goals will have many people think he had the better game but I'll always find this logic irritating.
Barca is quite a chaotic team for quite a while now but they never looked this toothless with Messi on the pitch. Was there even one high quality chance for them?
Well in terms of end products Messi doesn’t have a good season by his own standard. So far only managed 7 goals and 2 assists in 14 games, as compared to Ronaldo 12 goals and 2 assists on 10 games. They are quite far apart in terms of stats, which is quite unusual.
Performance wise I don’t think his level has been concerning at all, whoscored still give him avg rating of 8.22 (league + CL) this season, as compared to Ronaldo 7.98, and his dribbling stats is still maintained near to 5 per game, which is high. But let’s just say, Messi doesn’t stands out as much as he did in previous season (whoscored usually rate him far ahead of everyone else, usually at around 8.7) whereas Ronaldo has more or less maintained his level of performances (he is usually at around 8). So their performance gap is getting closer.
Regarding last night match Messi is actually not bad at all, it’s just his finishing has been off lately. Surely Ronaldo will get all the headlines, as he scored 2 goals and beat his life long rivals by 3-0. Winners and goalscorer always gets the headline in media, it’s nothing new.
Last edited:
We can agree on that. Messi's performances have definitely taken a hit this season and his finishing isn't quite on point. Also had some invisible performances you rarely have seen from him before. He's still maintaining an incredibly high standard but not as good as it used to be. I'm wondering if it's just his motivation/Barca's state or if he's finally declining. He's 34 so it would be no surprise but also quite a coincidence if it happened immediately after he was forced to stay after making clear he wanted to leave Barca for the first time.
I've read this twice and I still don't understand what any of it means. Are you drunk?
I think Messi will end up staying at Barca, they have good young players and given that Madrid are also not that good they could be competing for the league again as soon as next season .
It’s tough to see them winning the Champions League soon but if he goes to PSG or City I also think it would be hard.
The new Barca board must make a project that he can identify with, he needs to be happy while playing. I think it would be a huge shame if he retired anywhere else other than at Barca.
It’s tough to see them winning the Champions League soon but if he goes to PSG or City I also think it would be hard.
The new Barca board must make a project that he can identify with, he needs to be happy while playing. I think it would be a huge shame if he retired anywhere else other than at Barca.
I really have no idea. But given that he has been performing in very high standard in past 2 season, while his game is not heavily based on physical side, I didn’t expect his declining would be suddenly notable. (I expect him to decline slowly, season by season). But he’s clearly unhappy at Barca and want out, that would have some impact on his form I guess.
Messi had a good performance imo, except for finishing, which lacked power and accuracy.
Dont know what happening to his finishing abilities.
Dont know what happening to his finishing abilities.
Every great goalscorer goes through phases like that, where they’re still getting their chances but the ball just seems to not want to go in.
It’s always a mental thing, he’s probably just low on confidence given the team results
It’s always a mental thing, he’s probably just low on confidence given the team results
Oh dear, I get a mention here...
You know perfectly well that this poll is rigged by some idiot who closed it whenever Barca do their capitulation act in the CL, the fact you even try to use this this justify your view is hilarious.
Surprising result tbh. Messi declined hard this season (probably for lack of motivation due to the Barça drama in the summer) and that probably affected the results.
I personally rate Ronaldo higher than Messi mainly because he checks all the criterias for me while Messi does not.
It's not even about their output because after all they won and all the records they broke, I don't think that scoring more 50 goals or having 50 more assists than the other even matters anymore.
Yeah, the poll was rigged though.
When Ronaldo was surpassing Messi, someone locked the poll so it stayed 50/50 for a few months.
IFFHS has named Messi the best player of the decade. Debate settled
- Status