Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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KirkDuyt said:
I think winning stuff in different countries is more exciting, so in my opinion his career is better.
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Fair enough

Bebestation said:
Seeing the game Liverpool vs Leeds yesterday let me just feel that Messi hasn't played in a league this pungent.

So much talent top to bottom. So much money, managers, near world class to top class players players playing at these clubs - his stats would definitely go down a level playing here.

I'd love to see him here playing in a different team, under different tactics consistently against different breed of players. Please just move here and play against Leeds instead of getafe.
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Didn't Getafe knock out Ajax, the Dutch champions in Europa league last year? :lol:

Sevilla knocked out Roma, Wolves, and Utd. Valencia who finished 9th topped their CL group which had Chelsea.

But lets ignore all that and pretend that every Pros dream is to share the stage with the likes of Patrick Bamford.
 
Bebestation said:
Seeing the game Liverpool vs Leeds yesterday let me just feel that Messi hasn't played in a league this pungent.

So much talent top to bottom. So much money, managers, near world class to top class players players playing at these clubs - his stats would definitely go down a level playing here.

I'd love to see him here playing in a different team, under different tactics consistently against different breed of players. Please just move here and play against Leeds instead of getafe.
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You do know the UEFA 5 year coefficient? And that Spain has been and is still leading that ranking for the past, don't know, 15 years?
 
Bebestation said:
Seeing the game Liverpool vs Leeds yesterday let me just feel that Messi hasn't played in a league this pungent.

So much talent top to bottom. So much money, managers, near world class to top class players players playing at these clubs - his stats would definitely go down a level playing here.

I'd love to see him here playing in a different team, under different tactics consistently against different breed of players. Please just move here and play against Leeds instead of getafe.
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Messi has far more goals against Athletico madrid, Sevilla, Real Madrid, Athletic, Deportivo and Valencia than he has against Getafe. And he has a great goalscoring record against the biggest foreign european clubs as well. Personally I don't doubt prime/peak Messi would be head and shoulders the best player in the PL. At 34 or 35 years old I doubt he would have quite the same impact.

But yeah, Messi isn't proven until he's scored against Leeds.

That nobody Pelé played virtually all his career at Santos in his comfort zone until he moved the NY cosmos to play for 3 seasons once he was past it.
 
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MalcolmTucker said:
I know that you love the stat that Ronaldo is the 3rd highest assist leader in La Liga, but let me put it in perspective for you. Between MSN and BBC, Ronaldo actually has the 2nd lowest assist ratio in La Liga with only Bale having a worse record.

Messi - 194 minutes per assist
Neymar - 200 mins per assist
Suarez - 215 mins per assist
Benzema - 257 mins per assist
Ronaldo - 261 mins per assist
Bale - 271 mins per assist

Source: transfer markt

So as you can see, Ronaldo's assist record in La Liga isn't particularly remarkable for an elite attacker. Benzema and Suarez aren't traditional playmakers either but they have better assist records than Ronaldo. Wonder if the penny will drop that your opinion of Ronaldo being as good at passing as Messi is completely stupid now the one stat which you've been holding onto for dear life has been given a bit of context.
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"Ronaldo is not that great" (pulls up list of some of the best ever players in the league who have slightly higher assist ratio but NOT higher assists to "prove" it).

"I do not have an agenda against Ronaldo" (snuggles his Messi doll as he falls asleep crying to himself)
 
Bottom line is both are great players. Messi just may be the greatest La LIga player ever, while Ronaldo is the greatest Champions League player ever. So what's the tie breaker? International games? Well Ronaldo has a European trophy along with 101 goals and will soon be the highest goal scorer ever in international play. But go on, tell us against how Messi is the far better player... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
For now the international GOAT goalscorer is

Ali_Daei_in_Persepolis_training.jpg
 
SadlerMUFC said:
"Ronaldo is not that great" (pulls up list of some of the best ever players in the league who have slightly higher assist ratio but NOT higher assists to "prove" it).

"I do not have an agenda against Ronaldo" (snuggles his Messi doll as he falls asleep crying to himself)
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This is sub-adolescent banter - tragically you're 46 years old.

Listen, you're allowed to prefer Ronaldo over Messi, he's a great player. Just admit that saying Ronaldo is as good at passing as Messi was stupid and has been ridiculed and disagreed with by posters in both camps - literally no one has agreed with you. If you genuinely believe it, I suggest you stick to colours and shapes because I think football might be a bit too challenging for you to fully understand.
 
Bebestation said:
Seeing the game Liverpool vs Leeds yesterday let me just feel that Messi hasn't played in a league this pungent.

So much talent top to bottom. So much money, managers, near world class to top class players players playing at these clubs - his stats would definitely go down a level playing here.

I'd love to see him here playing in a different team, under different tactics consistently against different breed of players. Please just move here and play against Leeds instead of getafe.
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is this a troll post? Last season was
Comfortably the weakest batch of EPL teams since the 2016 Leicester season. Bottom two of the last ten years. Liverpool have come back down to earth since the leagues resumed as free covid. La liga has also fared much better than EPL in CL and EL. Messi would have a field day with the likes of Bournemouth, Aston villla, Fulham, in recent years. The epl is massively overrated. Barca and Madrid dropped a fair amount of points to the bottom half teams while el teams are breaking records every year with lopsided the gap is between the best and worst teams.
 
I've asked this before, but would anyone of us really think less of Ronaldo's ability if he had stayed with us until he retired? I wouldn't consider him any less a great of all time and he would be a god to Man Utd fans. This is more or less what Messi has been to Barcelona fans and I find this new enchanment with journeymen and mercenaries odd. Yes, I would have loved seeing peak Messi play in the PL. But only for us. Pelé spent the vast majority of his career at Santos and he's almost unanimously been considered the GOAT(him or Maradonna) until Ronaldo and Messi peaked.

If you start of at a lower tier club and your the best young talent on earth obviously your going to look for move to the best club, but when you're at Real Madrid, Barcelona and Man Utd(in the fergie era), you can only move sideways at best rather than up.
 
MalcolmTucker said:
This is sub-adolescent banter - tragically you're 46 years old.

Listen, you're allowed to prefer Ronaldo over Messi, he's a great player. Just admit that saying Ronaldo is as good at passing as Messi was stupid and has been ridiculed and disagreed with by posters in both camps - literally no one has agreed with you. If you genuinely believe it, I suggest you stick to colours and shapes because I think football might be a bit too challenging for you to fully understand.
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I'm adolescent yet you believe that if you aren't in the majority you are wrong and then follow that piece of genius up with childish banter to prove just how mature you are. Got it...
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Ronaldo is 3rd all time assist leader in La Liga history despite only playing 10 years there. To put that into perspective, Messi has averaged around 10.5 assists per season in La Liga and is thought of as the most creative player ever, while Ronaldo has averaged around 9.5 assists per year and isn't thought of as being creative at all. Makes one who doesn't have an agenda think that perhaps this part of CR7's game is being over looked...
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You keep just citing assists.

Assists can be misleading.

And you completely ignored the rest of my post to keep pushing this stupidity that Ronaldo and Messi are somehow equal passers.
 
Shamana said:
I've asked this before, but would anyone of us really think less of Ronaldo's ability if he had stayed with us until he retired? I wouldn't consider him any less a great of all time and he would be a god to Man Utd fans. This is more or less what Messi has been to Barcelona fans and I find this new enchanment with journeymen and mercenaries odd. Yes, I would have loved seeing peak Messi play in the PL. But only for us. Pelé spent the vast majority of his career at Santos and he's almost unanimously been considered the GOAT(him or Maradonna) until Ronaldo and Messi peaked.

If you start of at a lower tier club and your the best young talent on earth obviously your going to look for move to the best club, but when you're at Real Madrid, Barcelona and Man Utd(in the fergie era), you can only move sideways at best rather than up.
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I think if he is not being compared with Messi level of talent everyday, he would be considered GOAT by most. He has everything you want as a forward player (pace, skill, tricks, athleticism, finishing, heading, long shots, penalty, freekicks, movement, composure, determination, consistency, leadership, big match mentality, hunger for goals/success etc), he has all time best stats in almost everything, and he had won everything too.

But when people compared him with Messi, we will have a situation where people would think - here we have another player we could match Ronaldo overall stats and level of success, and at the same time who is also a better dribbler and playmaker, the 2 most beautiful aspect of the game. So naturally we would have people ranking Messi ahead of him, despite Ronaldo being already perfect in his forward role.

Or put it this way, he has different sets of strengths which works perfect for him to win everything he wants, just that in general people may prefer/admire Messi’s strength more.

Truth is, if I have to pick one player from any era of football world to play for my club, or any club for 15 years, I’d pick Ronaldo right away over everyone else without any hesitation.
 
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SadlerMUFC said:
I'm adolescent yet you believe that if you aren't in the majority you are wrong and then follow that piece of genius up with childish banter to prove just how mature you are. Got it...
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You can continue to believe that CR7 is a better/just as good a passer as Messi, no one is stopping you. Just like no one can stop the flat earthers’ beliefs.

However, just like them, your arguments hung on buts and what-ifs,whereas the other camp’s arguments are based on actual stats (assist, key passes, throughballs, pass% etcetc). So when you said anyone that does not agree with you has an agenda, it is akin to saying all everyone else bar yourself having an agenda.

When 1 person disagrees with you, perhaps that person is the problem. When everyone, including people from the CR7 supporting camp, disagrees with you, then you are the problem.
 
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Nice video on the great rivalry of the 20st century. Will be interesting to see if Messi and Ronaldo take digs at eachother once they are retired.

 
Havertz said Premier League was tougher than Bundesliga aswell.

Quality of the player is one thing but the toughness of the football being played is another - Havertz was playing Brighton. Playing in that toughness 24/7 would effect players stats.

Please join.
 
Bebestation said:
Havertz said Premier League was tougher than Bundesliga aswell.

Quality of the player is one thing but the toughness of the football being played is another - Havertz was playing Brighton. Playing in that toughness 24/7 would effect players stats.

Please join.
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Werner said the players are bigger in epl. It he wasoookinf very very good. Whereas players like hazard don’t even look like starting XI quality when they go to la liga.

it’s still Relatively weak era for the epl in recent years overall.
 
Daysleeper said:
Werner said the players are bigger in epl. It he wasoookinf very very good. Whereas players like hazard don’t even look like starting XI quality when they go to la liga.

it’s still Relatively weak era for the epl in recent years overall.
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That's because hazard is overweight. Players like Coutinho and Hazard also have the system built around them for a whilst (Liverpool or Chelsea) and end up moving to a club that dont do that or have it built towards someone else so end up struggling (Barcelona or Real madrid). That's making a poor career move and alot of Barcelona and Real Madrid players do that.
 
Swoobs said:
You can continue to believe that CR7 is a better/just as good a passer as Messi, no one is stopping you. Just like no one can stop the flat earthers’ beliefs.

However, just like them, your arguments hung on buts and what-ifs,whereas the other camp’s arguments are based on actual stats (assist, key passes, throughballs, pass% etcetc). So when you said anyone that does not agree with you has an agenda, it is akin to saying all everyone else bar yourself having an agenda.

When 1 person disagrees with you, perhaps that person is the problem. When everyone, including people from the CR7 supporting camp, disagrees with you, then you are the problem.
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You mean the guy who plays furthest up the field has less through balls played? Imagine that. You really got me there. I guess that means CR7 just can't make those passes. It has absolutely nothing to do with him being the best in the world at being on the end of those passes. But thanks for clearing that up and you're right, CR7 definitely can't make those kind of passes...

 
SadlerMUFC said:
You mean the guy who plays furthest up the field has less through balls played? Imagine that. You really got me there. I guess that means CR7 just can't make those passes. It has absolutely nothing to do with him being the best in the world at being on the end of those passes. But thanks for clearing that up and you're right, CR7 definitely can't make those kind of passes...

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It's actually mind-boggling that you keep pushing this narrative.

Shameful to be honest.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
It's actually mind-boggling that you keep pushing this narrative.

Shameful to be honest.
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DO you want the bottom line? Bottom line is Messi is the best La Liga player of all time. Ronaldo is the best Champions League player of all time. So what's the tie breaker? International games. Ronaldo has won a Euro Cup while Messi has won nothing. Ronaldo has also scored 101 goals and is 2nd on the all time scoring list and will soon be #1. IT's a no brainer

Cristiano Ronaldo > Messi.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
DO you want the bottom line? Bottom line is Messi is the best La Liga player of all time. Ronaldo is the best Champions League player of all time. So what's the tie breaker? International games. Ronaldo has won a Euro Cup while Messi has won nothing. Ronaldo has also scored 101 goals and is 2nd on the all time scoring list and will soon be #1. IT's a no brainer

Cristiano Ronaldo > Messi.
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Why are you going off on a different tangent? If you want to attribute Portugal's Euro win entirely to Ronaldo as if he won it playing 1vs11, go ahead. I don't care about team achievements when I compare players. You can think Ronaldo is better than Messi. You could form a better argument than the schoolboy argument you presented though.

The argument was about Ronaldo's passing compared to Messi's. The fact that you think they're equivalent in passing invalidates all of your posts on this matter.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Why are you going off on a different tangent? If you want to attribute Portugal's Euro win entirely to Ronaldo as if he won it playing 1vs11, go ahead. I don't care about team achievements when I compare players. You can think Ronaldo is better than Messi. You could form a better argument than the schoolboy argument you presented though.

The argument was about Ronaldo's passing compared to Messi's. The fact that you think they're equivalent in passing invalidates all of your posts on this matter.
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Actually, the original argument that you messi fan boys ganged up on me on was when Ronaldo scored his 101st international goal and I said he's the best and you fan boys couldn't handle that. It progressed to the passing argument and I said he's just as good. Others put words in my mouth and claimed I said he I was better. I didn't say that. What I said was that he is just as good as Messi at passing, but as smart as he is, he also realizes that it is better for the team if he is on the end of those passes, not the one making them so he plays himself further up the field...But as the video proves, he is more than capable of making all kinds of those defense splitting passes....
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Actually, the original argument that you messi fan boys ganged up on me on was when Ronaldo scored his 101st international goal and I said he's the best and you fan boys couldn't handle that. It progressed to the passing argument and I said he's just as good. Others put words in my mouth and claimed I said he I was better. I didn't say that. What I said was that he is just as good as Messi at passing, but as smart as he is, he also realizes that it is better for the team if he is on the end of those passes, not the one making them so he plays himself further up the field...But as the video proves, he is more than capable of making all kinds of those defense splitting passes....
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You literally need to watch a different sport.

I wouldn't go around calling people fanboys when you've got opinions like that.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
DO you want the bottom line? Bottom line is Messi is the best La Liga player of all time. Ronaldo is the best Champions League player of all time. So what's the tie breaker? International games. Ronaldo has won a Euro Cup while Messi has won nothing. Ronaldo has also scored 101 goals and is 2nd on the all time scoring list and will soon be #1. IT's a no brainer

Cristiano Ronaldo > Messi.
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At the same time why does winning a trophy make one of those players better? I'm not saying I disagree with Ronaldo being better but saying he's better because Portugal won a Euro Cup doesnt make sense.

Is Sergio Ramos better than Maldini? Maldini is slightly better in CL (5 vs. 4) but it's 3-0 internationally and not even close.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
You mean the guy who plays furthest up the field has less through balls played? Imagine that. You really got me there. I guess that means CR7 just can't make those passes. It has absolutely nothing to do with him being the best in the world at being on the end of those passes. But thanks for clearing that up and you're right, CR7 definitely can't make those kind of passes...
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Going by your logic, Messi will score far more goals than CR7 if he plays further up the pitch, since he has been playing deeper than CR7 (hence is able to make those throughballs more). So is Messi a better goal getter than CR7 now, but he chose not to by playing deeper and giving pens/freekicks to teammates.

Then next you linked some great CR7 passes as if everyone doesn’t know he is a great passer of the ball. Let me repeat, CR7 has great passing, just not messi/kdb/ozil tier. After which you continued to shift goal post from passing ability to international trophies.

Thenyou have the gall to call everyone who disagrees with you about CR7 passing being equal to Messi’s passing, fanboys. That is basically 99.99% of everyone watching football (or at least in this thread), so is that 99.99% ( basically everyone one else except yourself) Messi fanboys? I don’t see flat earthers going around calling people who doesn’t believe in the flat earth theory, shameful names, especially since they relied on what-ifs, just like what you are doing.

Can’t wait to see which argument fallacies are you going to present next, they should use your posts as case studies in university in future for prime examples of fallacies.
 
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trims said:
Has he though?

In terms of individual accolades collected during their careers, Messi has been miles ahead and it's not even a debate. This includes accolades Ronaldo won in England and Italy.

Messi .Ronaldo .
Ballon D'or
6​
5​
Club level
European golden shoe
6​
4​
League top scorer
7​
4​
League player of the year
9​
4​
Uefa Player of the year
3​
4​
International
World cup golden ball
1​
0​
Copa America/Euro player of the tournament
1​
0​

In terms of trophies won as part of the team, Ronaldo has won an international trophy and one more champions league however Messi has a lot more cups and League titles

MessiRonaldo
League titles
10​
7​
Champions leagues
4​
5​
Copa del Rey/Fa cups/Coppa Italia
6​
3​
Copa America/Euros
0​
1​
Fifa Club world cup
3​
3​
Uefa Super cup
3​
2​
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Miles ahead? Are you insane? Let’s be fair this is purely CV comparison on paper. And it’s just manipulation of stats, you are including league top scorer but ignoring CL top scorer, which isn’t fair comparison.

For example, at least 2 of the league titles and 1 CL is won by Ronaldinho instead of Messi. Messi was mostly a bit part player sitting on the bench in majority of time when he was only 17-18 during year 04-06, while Barca won 2 league title and 1 CL mostly by Ronaldinho and Eto’o etc. Sure you could still gives credits to Messi regardless as he still got the medal for his bit part sub role, but he has minimal contribution to win those titles for Barca if you are honest to yourself. It was basically won by Ronaldinho & co, not by 17 year old Messi sitting on bench watching for majority of games.

If only compare major trophies/individual awards won (as first team player):

Individual Awards
Major: (Messi 2 Ronaldo 0)
Ballon D’or: Messi 6 Ronaldo 5
Golden shoe: Messi 6 Ronaldo 4
Not major/domestic: (Messi 2 Ronaldo 3)
League top scorer: Messi 7 Ronaldo 4
League best player: Messi 8 Ronaldo 5
UEFA best player: Messi 2 Ronaldo 3
CL top scorer: Messi 6 Ronaldo 7
FIFA best player: Messi 2 Ronaldo 3

Trophy
Major: (Messi 0 Ronaldo 2)
CL: Messi 3 Ronaldo 5
Euro/Copa: Messi 0 Ronaldo 1
Not major/domestic: (Messi 2 Ronaldo 1)
League title: Messi 8 Ronaldo 7
Major Domestic Cup: Messi 6 Ronaldo 3
Club World Cup: Messi 3 Ronaldo 3
Minor international trophies: Messi 0 Ronaldo 1

(Exclude all those one-off supercup match like charity shield or Mickey mouse cup etc)

All time record
Major: (Messi 1 Ronaldo 4)
Career goal: Ronaldo
Career assist: Messi
International goal: Ronaldo
CL goal: Ronaldo
CL assist: Ronaldo
Domestic: (Messi 2 Ronaldo 0)
League goal: Messi
League assist: Messi


They are more or less equal, to be fair.
 
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It’s finally back, and we get it twice :drool: I see Juve and Ronaldo winning the group against Messi’s Barca, but who knows. Whatever it is though, this could be the last time we ever see this matchup, and we’ve been starved of it for too long. Hope it lives up to it’s billing.
 
RashyForPM said:
It’s finally back, and we get it twice :drool: I see Juve and Ronaldo winning the group against Messi’s Barca, but who knows. Whatever it is though, this could be the last time we ever see this matchup, and we’ve been starved of it for too long. Hope it lives up to it’s billing.
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Not sure about that. Barca are probably better on paper and play more fluid football. I’d say 60-40 in their favour. Ronaldo does live for the CL though so I can expect him to turn up and produce a masterclass, especially with the matchup being against his arch nemesis.
 
Ronaldo is 36 in February and Messi turned 33 this summer so this could be last time we see those 2 against each other, even though both will surely play for few more years (can see Ronaldo playing till 40 and Messi will be around for 2-3 more years at least).
 
Anyone know what the record is in matches where they faced each other in Europe? As in how many goals/assists each of them has in direct matchups?

I know they played each other a billion times in La Liga so more curious to see Europe ones as it must be very rare they played one another.
 
InterFan1998 said:
Anyone know what the record is in matches where they faced each other in Europe? As in how many goals/assists each of them has in direct matchups?

I know they played each other a billion times in La Liga so more curious to see Europe ones as it must be very rare they played one another.
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Hmm

2008 semifinals. 0 goals or assists from either I think
2009 1 goal Messi
2011 semifinals 2 goals messi.

I think thats it in the CL.
 
InterFan1998 said:
Anyone know what the record is in matches where they faced each other in Europe? As in how many goals/assists each of them has in direct matchups?

I know they played each other a billion times in La Liga so more curious to see Europe ones as it must be very rare they played one another.
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5 games head to head

Wins: Messi 2 Ronaldo 1
Draws: 2
Losses: Messi 1 Ronaldo 2

Goals: Messi 3 Ronaldo 0
Assists: 0

can’t believe it’s been almost 10 years since their last matchup and it’s still being talked about in the same way.
 
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Shamana said:
Hmm

2008 semifinals. 0 goals or assists from either I think
2009 1 goal Messi
2011 semifinals 2 goals messi.

I think thats it in the CL.
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Thanks. I do recall the R Madrid Barca semi; but really can't recall the 2008 games at all. Dont think I followed matches outside of Inter that consistently back then.
 
They'll both get injured for the games, of course we know this. :lol:
 
Hopefully there are fans at the Camp Nou when that game happens otherwise this will be pretty underwhelming
 
Zehner said:
Cringey
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It is isnt it? You on the other end is a very fashionable guy. Guy kept getting worse and worse every year ever since xavi & iniesta.

Barcelona under Koeman shows that he was always relying on Barcelona's footballing ability as much as Barcelona was relying on his.

One last move to a different league and watch him struggle and all his bend on knees fans will blame on his age.

:drool:

Great to watch.
 
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