Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[TheMagicFoolBus]

As a FC Porto fan I feel personally attacked that someone dared to say Raul Meireles was better than Lucho Gonzalez.

So, let's compare with the portuguese midfielders: Raul Meireles, Pedro Mendes, Ruben Amorim, Miguel Veloso, William Carvalho, Adrien Silva, Tiago, Moutinho, Manuel Fernandes, João Mário.
Tiago never played together with Moutinho, the usual midfield was Veloso+Meireles and then another one.
This doesn't seem that outstanding compared to Mascherano/ Cambiasso or Maxi Rodriguez or Gago or Biglia or Lucho or Enzo Perez.

We can also compare the forwards, especially the strikers, but that instantaneously gives me depression.

Meireles was better as a back 6 player. This is my entire point. Lucho was obviously better going forward but if you have a front 4 of Messi / Tevez / Aguero / Di Maria you hardly need your CMs to attack do you?

Ronaldo won the Champions League in Madrid with Di Maria playing central midfielder in a midfield 3. Banega is a what now?? If he doesn't count as a central midfielder then noone does.

Lucho was never better than Meireles??? What in the world? They literally played together for years at Porto and he was twice the player. Enzo Perez nowhere close to Meireles??? He was 5 times the player at Benfica and by far the best midfielder in the league. I'm starting to wonder if you've even seen the players you're talking about play.

I'm sorry but that's such a ridiculous claim. Meireles wouldn't have even been called up for Argentina for most of the time he was a starter for us. For Euro 2012 and the 2014 WC he was playing in Turkey and fighting for a place in the team with freaking Ruben Micael, Custodio and Ruben Amorim ffs

Better to be a top heavy squad than to not be heavy anywhere. World class front 3 plus a bunch of incredible attacking midfielders, that's 4 positions sorted. Ah but it's okay to have Hugo Almeida for Aguero, Quaresma for Di Maria and Danny for Tevez because we had freaking Joao Moutinho and Miguel Veloso in midfield rather than Cambiasso or Biglia?

If I pretend Bruno Fernandes is just an attacking midfielder like you'd do and that he can't play as a CM then how many world class midfielders have we had?? Zero? At least Argentina had Mascherano for a decade. How many above average midfielders have we had? 1 in Moutinho?

The last problem Argentina have had for the Messi era has been the quality of their squad, Messi had a better squad around him internationally literally every single year of his career until 2018. Perfect example of the difference between Portugal and Argentina is seeing how Marcos Acuña just had a much better season than Danilo, Danilo is starting for us with great performances while Acuña will barely be considered for Argentina. Why do you think that is?

So because Di Maria played as a shuttling 8 in a midfield 3 in a 4-3-2-1 that makes him a defensive player? Give me a break. If you're playing Bruno Fernandes at CM then that's also suboptimal and stupid.

It's obviously not better to be a top heavy squad. Are you not familiar with the weak link principle? This only becomes more important at international level.

Also your point about Acuna just reinforces the fact that the Argentinian FA is idiotic. Not sure what else you're trying to argue there, chief.

 

[InterFan1998]

Despite how good they are, they both choke in the knockouts in the World Cup.

Ronaldo was excellent against Spain and Morocco but when it came to a pressure game against Uruguay, he really choked.

Messi does well in group stages but not much against the big teams like Germany.

As good as they are, they may be the only players in their class (legendary) who just couldn't step it up in the big moments.

 

[trims]

Cough. Carrick, Hargreaves, Scholes, Giggs, Anderson.

That team kept 24/38 clean sheets in 08/09 and didn't concede a goal for 4 months. Was that down to Ronaldo also?

Comparing FIFA rankings across different confederations says very little. They mostly play against different nations.

Even if you remove the minnows from both sides Ronaldo still scored more than Messi and more in competitive games.
In competitive games vs the strong teams there's no discussion at all. Messi never scored a single competitive goal vs Brazil (!), Portugal, Spain, France, Germany, Netherlands or Belgium.
The strongest team Messi scored against in Copa America is Paraguay.

You're asking much of him to score against teams he's never played against. He's only played against Belgium, Netherlands, and France once. I'm curious why you cherry-picked those teams and left out Uruguay and England.

Also, he scored against Mexico in Copa America who ranked 11th in the world.

 

[Peyroteo]

So because Di Maria played as a shuttling 8 in a midfield 3 in a 4-3-2-1 that makes him a defensive player? Give me a break. If you're playing Bruno Fernandes at CM then that's also suboptimal and stupid.

That is literally the position he's playing for us right now. He's not a defensive player, he can still play in midfield in a 4-3-3. Just like the bunch of argentinian offensive minded midfielders can do the same.

It's obviously not better to be a top heavy squad. Are you not familiar with the weak link principle? This only becomes more important at international level.

Yes, clearly the solution to Argentina's problems was to drop Messi, Aguero and Di Maria and play a front 3 of Gaitan, Palacio and Franco Jara.

That way they wouldn't be a top heavy squad, have no clear weak link and as a result they'd be much better off. Makes sense.

 

[Peyroteo]

Meireles was better as a back 6 player. This is my entire point.

Meireles played as the most forward of the 3 midfielders for Portugal with Veloso and Moutinho behind him.

He was literally not a back 6 player ever for the national team.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That is literally the position he's playing for us right now. He's not a defensive player, he can still play in midfield. Just like the bunch of argentinian offensive minded midfielders can do the same.

Yes, clearly the solution to Argentina's problems was to drop Messi, Aguero and Di Maria and play a front 3 of Gaitan, Palacio and Franco Jara.

That way they wouldn't be a top heavy squad, have no clear weak link and as a result they'd be much better off. Makes sense.

What? Bruno is playing as a 10. You are playing a 4-2-3-1. He's not a defensive player, this is exactly the point. Do you want to play either Bruno or Di Maria as a CM? Of course not.

And nice straw man. Of course that's not what I'm saying. Pathetic argument. The whole point is Argentina in non-attacking positions has been significantly worse than Portugal over the past 10-15 years. If your best argument against this is "hurr durr why didn't they play Gaitan" then this discussion is over.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Meireles played as the most forward of the 3 midfielders for Portugal with Veloso and Moutinho behind him.

He was literally not a back 6 player ever for the national team.

Again, the point remains. He'd have been among the most effective 6s for Argentina during Messi's time. Also, he was used as a forward presser in a 4-3-3 for the national side and as a 6/8 hybrid at club level; if you think this is comparable to Di Maria you're out of your mind.

 

[Peyroteo]

What? Bruno is playing as a 10. You are playing a 4-2-3-1.

We do not play a 4-2-3-1. We play a 4-3-3 with Danilo behind two midfielders.

Do you want to play either Bruno or Di Maria as a CM? Of course not.

I don't? That's where he's playing, the exact same position Raul Meireles played in the exact same formation.

And the same position where Di Maria had his best ever season.

 

[Peyroteo]

Again, the point remains. He'd have been among the most effective 6s for Argentina during Messi's time. Also, he was used as a forward presser in a 4-3-3 for the national side and as a 6/8 hybrid at club level; if you think this is comparable to Di Maria you're out of your mind.

Meireles was nowhere near as good as a number 6 and he pretty much never played there... playing the role of the forward presser was exactly Di Maria's role in the La Decima season.

Hell, Argentina did actually play him there behind 3 other attackers a bunch of times.

 

[Peyroteo]

And nice straw man. Of course that's not what I'm saying. Pathetic argument. The whole point is Argentina in non-attacking positions has been significantly worse than Portugal over the past 10-15 years.

That is just ridiculous. Not only were they insanely better in attacking positions to a point where the players didn't even look like they were playing the same sport, they were also generally better everywhere else across the pitch too. From goalkeepers, to fullbacks, centrebacks and midfielders.

Difference is we had the likes of William Carvalho, José Fonte or João Pereira overperforming while the argentinian players who were much better than them for their clubs had to come in to a dysfunctional team of massively underperforming superstars.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

We do not play a 4-2-3-1. We play a 4-3-3 with Danilo behind two midfielders.

I don't? That's where he's playing, the exact same position Raul Meireles played in the exact same formation.

And the same position where Di Maria had his best ever season.

Apologies, thought you were referring to Man United. Even so, with the Portuguese team Danilo drops deeper behind Moutinho but this is offset by Cancelo stepping more centrally. It's certainly not a 4-3-3 in possession.

I also don't understand the fixation on Meireles' position - the point remains that he was a more effective 6/8 at club level than anyone Messi played with for Argentina outside of Mascherano / Cambiasso.

Meireles was nowhere near as good as a number 6 and he pretty much never played there... playing the role of the forward presser was exactly Di Maria's role in the La Decima season.

Hell, Argentina did actually play him there behind 3 other attackers a bunch of times.

Meireles was a very effective deep-lying 6 for Chelsea and Liverpool. And Di Maria played as a more or less false 10 in that role for Argentina - that was notable for the extent to which they were overrun in midfield as again, Di Maria is only a front-foot midfielder that can be used in a dominant side. Why did PSG play him on the wing if he's a viable central midfielder? Because he just isn't.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

That is just ridiculous. Not only were they insanely better in attacking positions to a point where the players didn't even look like they were playing the same sport, they were also generally better everywhere else across the pitch too. From goalkeepers, to fullbacks, centrebacks and midfielders.

Again, absurd. Go position by position. Portugal were clearly the better side. Obviously Argentina had the better set of attackers but at the same time the differential between their attack and any other position was massive.

 

[Peyroteo]

Apologies, thought you were referring to Man United. Even so, with the Portuguese team Danilo drops deeper behind Moutinho but this is offset by Cancelo stepping more centrally. It's certainly not a 4-3-3 in possession.

I also don't understand the fixation on Meireles' position - the point remains that he was a more effective 6/8 at club level than anyone Messi played with for Argentina outside of Mascherano / Cambiasso.

Which again, is an awful point and quite simply not true at all. Meireles was a box to box at his best, as a 6 or a more sitting number 8 then all of Biglia, Banega, Enzo Perez and Gago along with Mascherano and Cambiasso were clearly better options at one point or another.

I'd love to know what you think of the current Portugal squad btw. Bruno Fernandes, Felix, Ronaldo and Bernardo Silva... ahead of two midfielders, Danilo and a 34 year old Moutinho. Why can that work with 4 attacking players and 2 holding players but Argentina apparently couldn't do the same with any combination of Cambiasso/Mascherano/Banega/Biglia/Gago behind Di Maria, Tevez, Aguero and Messi or something like it? It's not like Moutinho or Danilo are anywhere near world class now are they? Are we not a top heavy squad too that will therefore completely fail?

Meireles was a very effective deep-lying 6 for Chelsea and Liverpool. And Di Maria played as a more or less false 10 in that role for Argentina - that was notable for the extent to which they were overrun in midfield as again, Di Maria is only a front-foot midfielder that can be used in a dominant side. Why did PSG play him on the wing if he's a viable central midfielder? Because he just isn't.

Meireles was anything but very effective in the Premier League which is why no club kept him and after 2 years in England he was gone to Turkey.

Di Maria literally played the best season of his career in that position yet he can't play there? Madrid played him behind Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo. We're playing Bruno behind Felix, Bernardo and Ronaldo. City play De Bruyne behind Sterling, Aguero and Mahrez. Of course Di Maria could have played there behind a front 3 of Tevez-Messi-Higuain for example with Mascherano and Biglia/Banega/Enzo Perez in midfield. Ronaldo would have killed for us to look that good from the defense forward even now nevermind when our front 6 was Veloso-Moutinho-Meireles Nani-Ronaldo-Postiga

 

[Peyroteo]

Again, absurd. Go position by position. Portugal were clearly the better side. Obviously Argentina had the better set of attackers but at the same time the differential between their attack and any other position was massive.

We could have had freaking Xavi in midfield and Ramos in defense and it still wouldn't bridge the obscene gap that existed between the attacks of both teams ffs. And again, not true at all that we had better options in midfield or in defense.

The past 2 years we've had a better squad than Argentina, during the rest of Messi's career Argentina have clearly had a superior squad to Portugal. And most of that time it was by a considerable distance.

 

[Acheron]

As for Ronaldo having a more powerful shot, hasn't Messi scored more goals than Ronaldo from outside the penalty surface though? And doesn't Messi have a better conversion rate than Ronaldo also?
There are things that Ronaldo great at and better than Messi without the ball, but with the ball at their feet, Messi is straight up better. And at the end of the day, we're talking about football here aren't we?

Yes he does, Messi is very accurate with his shots as well but like I said Ronaldo strikes harder and his goals are more varied (scores with his head and both legs). Also I don't know what of the things I said aren't considered football, I'm not talking about any other sport although there are other intangible things people might rate in particular players so it's ok if you prefer Messi or think he's better.

 

[RedRonaldo]

The funny thing is no one here seems to be able to mention anything that Ronaldo does better than Messi with the ball, I mean after all we're talking about football here right?

If the question is if Ronaldo is a better athlete, then yes sure. But better footballer, nope.

There’s lot of football freestyler who could do a lot of amazing things other top professional can only dream of doing. But in terms of winning football game, they are far from being at top professional level at all. The thing is, footballer isn’t just about doing things with the ball, there are lots of other decisive factors of impacting the game, athleticism and mentality, for example, are 2 of other equally important factor.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Which again, is an awful point and quite simply not true at all. Meireles was a box to box at his best, as a 6 or a more sitting number 8 then all of Biglia, Banega, Enzo Perez and Gago along with Mascherano and Cambiasso were clearly better options at one point or another.

I'd love to know what you think of the current Portugal squad btw. Bruno Fernandes, Felix, Ronaldo and Bernardo Silva... ahead of two midfielders, Danilo and a 34 year old Moutinho. Why can that work with 4 attacking players and 2 holding players but Argentina apparently couldn't do the same with any combination of Cambiasso/Mascherano/Banega/Biglia/Gago behind Di Maria, Tevez, Aguero and Messi or something like it? It's not like Moutinho or Danilo are anywhere near world class now are they? Are we not a top heavy squad too that will therefore completely fail?

Meireles was anything but very effective in the Premier League which is why no club kept him and after 2 years in England he was gone to Turkey.

Di Maria literally played the best season of his career in that position yet he can't play there? Madrid played him behind Bale, Benzema and Ronaldo. We're playing Bruno behind Felix, Bernardo and Ronaldo. City play De Bruyne behind Sterling, Aguero and Mahrez. Of course Di Maria could have played there behind a front 3 of Tevez-Messi-Higuain for example with Mascherano and Biglia/Banega/Enzo Perez in midfield. Ronaldo would have killed for us to look that good from the defense forward even now nevermind when our front 6 was Veloso-Moutinho-Meireles Nani-Ronaldo-Postiga

Is this a joke? Biglia, Banega (not actually a player in a double pivot until later in his career), Perez, & Gago all were inferior to Meireles in a midfield 2. Or did you forget he won the CL with Chelsea?

Also again you're proving my point - Portugal can make it work because the players are better. Moutinho is better than any of those you listed by a significant margin.

 

[LucasXXII]

The funny thing is no one here seems to be able to mention anything that Ronaldo does better than Messi with the ball, I mean after all we're talking about football here right?

If the question is if Ronaldo is a better athlete, then yes sure. But better footballer, nope.

By official rules, football is not played on the feet but by all parts of the body except the hands. By extension, football is also played in the mind.

So no, football is not just on-the-ball ability, let alone just "dribbling and playing the final pass while looking aesthetically pleasing". The latter is at best 25% of what football is about in this day and age.

 

[Peyroteo]

Is this a joke? Biglia, Banega (not actually a player in a double pivot until later in his career), Perez, & Gago all were inferior to Meireles in a midfield 2. Or did you forget he won the CL with Chelsea?

And Torres was a better striker than Aguero too?

In 2012 when Meireles won the CL with Chelsea... Enzo Perez was already a much better player in a double pivot and he'd become even better in the following seasons. All the others you mentioned were significantly better than Meireles in a midfield 2 at various points of their careers.

This is pointless, you're so far off the mark there's really no argument to make when you believe Meireles was much better than players like Enzo or Lucho. I'd have loved it if the player you seem to remember Raul Meireles to be actually existed but it simply didn't happen so I'll leave the Meireles argument at that.

Also again you're proving my point - Portugal can make it work because the players are better. Moutinho is better than any of those you listed by a significant margin.

You actually think Danilo-Moutinho-Bruno-Bernardo-Ronaldo-Felix now is better than Mascherano-Enzo Perez-Di Maria-Tevez-Messi-Aguero circa 2014??? If you compare those players in order there's none of the portuguese that are better in 2020 than the argentinians in 2014.

As for Moutinho, he is better than the players mentioned. He's our best midfielder of the past 15 years though and I'm comparing him to the 4th and 5th choices for Argentina. He wasn't even close to the level of Mascherano. Or Cambiasso. Always been reliable but never close to world class at all.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

And Torres was a better striker than Aguero too?

In 2012 when Meireles won the CL with Chelsea... Enzo Perez was already a much better player in a double pivot and he'd become even better in the following seasons. All the others you mentioned were significantly better than Meireles in a midfield 2 at various points of their careers.

This is pointless, you're so far off the mark there's really no argument to make when you believe Meireles was much better than players like Enzo or Lucho. I'd have loved it if the player you seem to remember Raul Meireles to be actually existed but it simply didn't happen so I'll leave the Meireles argument at that.

You actually think Danilo-Moutinho-Bruno-Bernardo-Ronaldo-Felix now is better than Mascherano-Enzo Perez-Di Maria-Tevez-Messi-Aguero circa 2014??? If you compare those players in order there's none of the portuguese that are better in 2020 than the argentinians in 2014.

As for Moutinho, he is better than the players mentioned. He's our best midfielder of the past 15 years though and I'm comparing him to the 4th and 5th choices for Argentina. He wasn't even close to the level of Mascherano. Or Cambiasso. Always been reliable but never close to world class at all.

Holy feck. It's naut even to do with the front 6 and it has even less to do with somehow comparing 2014 to today - even if I concede that against all evidence to the contrary Argentina somehow had a better midfield, why don't you look up who the back 5 were behind those 6 and get back to me. Portugal have had a more complete squad over the past 15 years than Argentina, end of. You can try to minimize it to support Ronaldo blindly but it's simply not the case. Who are the Argentinian defenders that can even hold a candle to Ricardo Carvalho or Pepe? No one by a country mile.

Your fixation on Meireles is just hilarious grasping at straws - the reality is Messi carried a far poorer side to the WC final and would have won it if not for his shite teammates. Ronaldo's Portugal went to the Euros, played so badly in the group stage that they would have been eliminated in every prior format, scraped their way through the knockouts, and then won the final without him. How is this an argument in his favour? Unless you're just fanboying as per usual.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

To say Ronaldo is as good at passing as Messi is like me saying Messi is as tall as Ronaldo

Not only does Ronaldo not make the passes Messi makes, he doesn't even see them.

Just because he doesn't do them doesn't mean he can't. Ronaldo plays further forward. Doesn't change the FACT that Ronaldo is La Liga's 3rd all time leader in assists despite not being known for his passing. But don't let that little bit of information get in the way of your anti-Ronaldo agenda

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I've heard Chuck Norris jokes that are less absurd than this statement

#3 on the all time assists chart in La Liga despite playing there for 10 years as opposed to Messi's 17 years. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your agenda against Ronaldo...

 

[Swoobs]

#3 on the all time assists chart in La Liga despite playing there for 10 years as opposed to Messi's 17 years. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your agenda against Ronaldo...

Why only selectively look at la liga only assists? Why not look at key passes and throughballs? Aren’t we not talking about passes? Facts yes? But hey don’t let facts get in your way of your agenda against messi

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/

 

[Zehner]

#3 on the all time assists chart in La Liga despite playing there for 10 years as opposed to Messi's 17 years. But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your agenda against Ronaldo...

Have you quoted the wrong person?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Why only selectively look at la liga only assists? Why not look at key passes and throughballs? Aren’t we not talking about passes? Facts yes? But hey don’t let facts get in your way of your agenda against messi

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/

I don't have an agenda against Messi. I think he's amazing. He's just not as good as Ronaldo. But trying to claim that Messi is better than Ronaldo because Messi plays more through balls is ridiculous considering Ronaldo would be the one on the end of the through ball. You see, Ronaldo can make that pass, but there is no better player in the game to be on the end of it.

Put it this way.....let's say you're in the Champions League final and you need a goal. You have one sub left and for some odd reason both Messi and Ronaldo are on the bench. Who are you putting on??? If you say Messi, you're lying...

 

[Bebestation]

I don't have an agenda against Messi. I think he's amazing. He's just not as good as Ronaldo. But trying to claim that Messi is better than Ronaldo because Messi plays more through balls is ridiculous considering Ronaldo would be the one on the end of the through ball. You see, Ronaldo can make that pass, but there is no better player in the game to be on the end of it.

Put it this way.....let's say you're in the Champions League final and you need a goal. You have one sub left and for some odd reason both Messi and Ronaldo are on the bench. Who are you putting on??? If you say Messi, you're lying...

For Barcelona you can choose Messi but for any other team choosing anyone over Ronaldo would be a stupid decision.

 

[Daysleeper]

I don't have an agenda against Messi. I think he's amazing. He's just not as good as Ronaldo. But trying to claim that Messi is better than Ronaldo because Messi plays more through balls is ridiculous considering Ronaldo would be the one on the end of the through ball. You see, Ronaldo can make that pass, but there is no better player in the game to be on the end of it.

Put it this way.....let's say you're in the Champions League final and you need a goal. You have one sub left and for some odd reason both Messi and Ronaldo are on the bench. Who are you putting on??? If you say Messi, you're lying...

ronaldo has been painfully mediocre in most CL finals. I’d take the average Messi performance that he’s had when he was in the CL final over Ronaldo no question.

 

[Daysleeper]

Why only selectively look at la liga only assists? Why not look at key passes and throughballs? Aren’t we not talking about passes? Facts yes? But hey don’t let facts get in your way of your agenda against messi

https://www.messivsronaldo.app/

exactly, Messi is light years ahead of Ronaldo as a playmaker, not even in the same tier. Messi has Ronaldo’s goslscoring and de Bruyne’s playmaking all rolled into one.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

ronaldo has been painfully mediocre in most CL finals. I’d take the average Messi performance that he’s had when he was in the CL final over Ronaldo no question.

Ronaldo has played in 6 Champions League finals and has 4 goals??? How is that "painfully average"

 

[MalcolmTucker]

Just because he doesn't do them doesn't mean he can't. Ronaldo plays further forward. Doesn't change the FACT that Ronaldo is La Liga's 3rd all time leader in assists despite not being known for his passing. But don't let that little bit of information get in the way of your anti-Ronaldo agenda

You're absolutely deluded or incredibly stupid if you think Ronaldo is as good as Messi at playmaking but he just chooses not to Playmaking is regarded as more difficult than goalscoring generally, that's why Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldinho are all rated higher than Gerd Muller - if Ronaldo could playmake like Messi could, then he would - if Messi can playmake and also score as many as Ronaldo then surely that's flaw in Ronaldo's career.

We saw Ronaldo playing more of a creative role for United and early in his Real Madrid days and he has never shown the level of vision, consistency or technique that Messi has with his passing. Not even his most loyal fans in @SportingCP96 or @Peyroteo will claim otherwise. It's honestly a bizarre opinion to have when Ronaldo has so many other great attributes.

 

[Daysleeper]

Ronaldo has played in 6 Champions League finals and has 4 goals??? How is that "painfully average"

because over half of them came in one game, he was painfully mediocre in 2014, 2016, and 2018. His form dips in the final compared to the earlier knockout rounds.

 

[Daysleeper]

You're absolutely deluded or incredibly stupid if you think Ronaldo is as good as Messi at playmaking but he just chooses not to Playmaking is regarded as more difficult than goalscoring generally, that's why Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldinho are all rated higher than Gerd Muller - if Ronaldo could playmake like Messi could, then he would - if Messi can playmake and also score as many as Ronaldo then surely that's flaw in Ronaldo's career.

We saw Ronaldo playing more of a creative role for United and early in his Real Madrid days and he has never shown the level of vision, consistency or technique that Messi has with his passing. Not even his most loyal fans in @SportingCP96 or @Peyroteo will claim otherwise. It's honestly a bizarre opinion to have when Ronaldo has so many other great attributes.

*applause*

 

[Henandez14]

Ronaldo has played in 6 Champions League finals and has 4 goals??? How is that "painfully average"

2 against juve
Which leaves 2 in 5 finals
1 against atm in a 4-1 defeat
Which leaves 1 in 4
Sometimes you have to put things into perspective

 

[Henandez14]

I don't have an agenda against Messi. I think he's amazing. He's just not as good as Ronaldo. But trying to claim that Messi is better than Ronaldo because Messi plays more through balls is ridiculous considering Ronaldo would be the one on the end of the through ball. You see, Ronaldo can make that pass, but there is no better player in the game to be on the end of it.

Put it this way.....let's say you're in the Champions League final and you need a goal. You have one sub left and for some odd reason both Messi and Ronaldo are on the bench. Who are you putting on??? If you say Messi, you're lying...

Ronaldo doesn’t make through balls because he’s often at the end of them.. how about Henry at Arsenal? Or Suarez at Liverpool? Being goal scorers didn’t stop them from being playmakers.
I’m afraid you don’t have a point there

 

[footballistic orgasm]

By official rules, football is not played on the feet but by all parts of the body except the hands. By extension, football is also played in the mind.

So no, football is not just on-the-ball ability, let alone just "dribbling and playing the final pass while looking aesthetically pleasing". The latter is at best 25% of what football is about in this day and age.

Wait... So the mind is now a physical part of the body? I've heard it all...
Apart from being a better header of the ball (then again he's taller), there's nothing Ronaldo does better than Messi with the ball.

When judging who's better between 2 players (not 2 teams), their abilities on the ball counts for atleast 80%, especially when we're talking about 2 players who's won so much.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

I don't have an agenda against Messi. I think he's amazing. He's just not as good as Ronaldo. But trying to claim that Messi is better than Ronaldo because Messi plays more through balls is ridiculous considering Ronaldo would be the one on the end of the through ball. You see, Ronaldo can make that pass, but there is no better player in the game to be on the end of it.

Put it this way.....let's say you're in the Champions League final and you need a goal. You have one sub left and for some odd reason both Messi and Ronaldo are on the bench. Who are you putting on??? If you say Messi, you're lying...

Well Messi is often the one making final passes and is also the one scoring the most, basically he has more responsibilities than Ronaldo on the field.

As for who I'll put on in that situation, it depends on what creative players i have on the pitch. We all know that Ronaldo can't come down to create, he's better staying further up to finish should the occasions or crosses come. So if I have a midfield that already has Kroos and Modric or better Yet KDB, then I'll bring in Ronaldo, otherwise i'm bringing in Messi because he can create and finish.

 

[SportingCP96]

You're absolutely deluded or incredibly stupid if you think Ronaldo is as good as Messi at playmaking but he just chooses not to Playmaking is regarded as more difficult than goalscoring generally, that's why Maradona, Zidane and Ronaldinho are all rated higher than Gerd Muller - if Ronaldo could playmake like Messi could, then he would - if Messi can playmake and also score as many as Ronaldo then surely that's flaw in Ronaldo's career.

We saw Ronaldo playing more of a creative role for United and early in his Real Madrid days and he has never shown the level of vision, consistency or technique that Messi has with his passing. Not even his most loyal fans in @SportingCP96 or @Peyroteo will claim otherwise. It's honestly a bizarre opinion to have when Ronaldo has so many other great attributes.

I agree Messi is a better playmaker that is not even a question IMO.

With that being said that does not mean Ronaldo is a “bad” one. Like the poster mentioned he is 3rd all time in assists in La Liga and most all time in CL. He’s very very good at it but certainly NOT at Messi level.

In terms of goals though it’s worth mentioning for Ronaldo’s first 6 or so years as a pro he was a out and out winger similar to what Nani was at United and it was not until his last 2 maybe 3 seasons at United where he really began to expand his game into the greatest goal scorer we have ever seen. Just look at his whole time in Madrid so 09/10 to 17-18 he scored more goals then Messi in La Liga. It’s also worth noting Ronaldo has changed and evolved his game 3x in his career which is remarkable. His change into being an out and out goal scorer I think was in order to be able to prolong his career a whole lot longer. Messi ever since his second season already played closer to the box then Ronaldo did and that’s worth mentioning as well.


Messi is the greater Player maker (Does not mean Ronaldo is a bad one)

Ronaldo is the greater goal scorer (does not mean Messi is a bad one).

 

[SportingCP96]

Well Messi is often the one making final passes and is also the one scoring the most, basically he has more responsibilities than Ronaldo on the field.

As for who I'll put on in that situation, it depends on what creative players i have on the pitch. We all know that Ronaldo can't come down to create, he's better staying further up to finish should the occasions or crosses come. So if I have a midfield that already has Kroos and Modric or better Yet KDB, then I'll bring in Ronaldo, otherwise i'm bringing in Messi because he can create and finish.

Oh come on in that situation a goal down or you need a goal whatever the case is whoever does not bring on Ronaldo in that scenario is losing.

Bigger threat in the box, sheer determination and grit, and he absolutely lives for those scenarios and moments.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Go ahead and list the top class Argentinian players from their back 5/6 who underachieved and were better than Meireles. I'll wait.

This has been answered extensively by other posters looking through the thread. You also originally said midfielders but even with the narrowing to 5/6 (which another poster pointed out isn't where he played anyway) he has nothing on Mascherano, Cambiasso, Gago. Argentina have always had an absolute surplus of talent across their midfield and attack & using Meireles is such a weird example - he was the definition of an average player who had good work rate. I'd say he wasn't even at the level of Herrera who is defintely an inferior player to the aforementioned Argentinians.

I get some people will fight Messi's corner no matter what is thrown at them but this isn't about Ronaldo vs Messi - it's a simple comparison of two national teams. Portugal vs Argentina on paper is so one sided over the last 15 years in Argentina's favour it's weird you don't see it.

 

[Bebestation]

Ronaldo has played in 6 Champions League finals and has 4 goals??? How is that "painfully average"

It's funny how messi fans can call Higuain's goal against Belgium in a world cup a "pre- assist' - then bypass when Ronaldo does the same exact stuff in a CL final but for an assist instead haha