To be fair to van Nistelrooy, goal poaching is as much an art as other footballing aspects. Some of us enjoy beautiful defense and organization, others the poachers instincts. There are many things to enjoy in football.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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To be fair to van Nistelrooy, goal poaching is as much an art as other footballing aspects. Some of us enjoy beautiful defense and organization, others the poachers instincts. There are many things to enjoy in football.
I like to see play both , Cristiano has scored really spectacular goals . Good with the head ,hits with both legs, good from the distance... Even last year there are very beautiful counterattack goals , combining with Bale and Benzema. If you get bored seeing the Ballon d´or then your taste for football is too exquisite
RvN's poaching was beautiful.
How have they not played an exhibition match on the same team?
Yeah, shit post. The likes of "you have to appreciate Messi but not other aspects of football" is sill imo.
I have no doubt that there are people who find that good to watch, but it's not for everyone. I simply don't find Ronaldo's game interesting to watch. I thought he was fantastic in 06/07 and been boring to watch since then.
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My issue is with people who think "If you can't appreciate Ronaldo, you don't appreciate football".
2007!, I think that you're going too far back in time. Why don´t you like? because of his position?
Good luck then, even Messi doesn't dribble in every match.
I can watch this all day man, all day. 
I also think it's harsh and even biased to sort of say last time he's been truly entertaining was in 07. He was very eye catching in his first couple of seasons before slowly and slowly reducing the "exciting" play to increase his goalscoring. These days, I don't enjoy watching him play nearly as much as before even if he can sometimes show he's a great player to watch.
Fair enough.
Poaching is not instinct, is intelligence, is to understand the game better than the other players. to anticipate where the ball is going to go
i admire that
i havent seen a poacher like Ronaldo -and he is not only that, his speed, his headers, his long shot balls are brilliant too- my two only claims against him as that he is not as good as messi -second BPITW right now- and that he celebrates his goals like he just found the cure for cancer while he "mehs" when his team mates score a goal
i admire that
i havent seen a poacher like Ronaldo -and he is not only that, his speed, his headers, his long shot balls are brilliant too- my two only claims against him as that he is not as good as messi -second BPITW right now- and that he celebrates his goals like he just found the cure for cancer while he "mehs" when his team mates score a goal
Poaching is not instinct, is intelligence, is to understand the game better than the other players. to anticipate where the ball is going to go
i admire that
i havent seen a poacher like Ronaldo -and he is not only that, his speed, his headers, his long shot balls are brilliant too- my two only claims against him as that he is not as good as messi -second BPITW right now- and that he celebrates his goals like he just found the cure for cancer while he "mehs" when his team mates score a goal
i admire that
i havent seen a poacher like Ronaldo -and he is not only that, his speed, his headers, his long shot balls are brilliant too- my two only claims against him as that he is not as good as messi -second BPITW right now- and that he celebrates his goals like he just found the cure for cancer while he "mehs" when his team mates score a goal
So good, you said it twice
I can watch this all day man, all day.
Those 5 Ronaldo goals for Sporting at the start... Wow. What a way to start a career. Full of confidence.
So good, you said it twice
fecking internet is working slow, so i pressed the "post reply" button twice
fecking internet is working slow, so i pressed the "post reply" button twice
it happens.Weren't you 10-11 whan RvN was doing his stuff at United?
Anyhow, don't bring him up. Cal was notorious for turning every Thierry Henry appreciation thread (there was one every week) back then into an RvN lovefest.
Ronaldo and RVN are very different types of goal poachers.
Id also disagree strongly that poachers rely on intelligence and not instinct. Its the other way round for the majority imo. Ruud was definitely one of those, as was Inzaghi.
As a position it seems to be disappearing from the game over the last decade as football changes but to say its based on intelligence and not instinct how do you explain Andy Cole?
Id also disagree strongly that poachers rely on intelligence and not instinct. Its the other way round for the majority imo. Ruud was definitely one of those, as was Inzaghi.
As a position it seems to be disappearing from the game over the last decade as football changes but to say its based on intelligence and not instinct how do you explain Andy Cole?
This. Include the media in that too.
When Messi gets compared, it is to Pele and Maradona and whether he has surpassed them or not.
When Ronaldo gets compared, it is to Messi and whether he can be as good.
So true and that says it all really.
Are you guys telling me what I'm seeing?
I'm saying that outside of the Caf, the dominant opinion I see is that overall the gap between Messi and Ronaldo is nonexistent. And yes, a lot of people compare both to Pele and Maradona.
The dominant opinion i see is that most people understand how great Ronaldo is, while at the same time has no doubts over that messi is a bit better.
There seems to be a very obvious pattern, yes.Aargh, so Cal has priors!
I think you're underestimating just how deeply Ronaldo ingrained himself into the prepubescent United supporters brains back when he was with you. There are quite a few Utd supporters I see who spout the same amount of nonsense as Cal does on here because they all loved him to death. It's quite natural they would retain their love.
I see the total opposite. Outside the caf the majority have Messi on a different level.
And I can believe that. The conclusion is that we live in different spheres.
FFS
In a sad note, I know a couple of "older" united fans (my age
) who still act like teenage girls wrt anything Ron related as well! Hahaha when I typed wrt - the phone auto corrected it to "wet"
Playmaking is widely considered as one of the most beautiful aspects of football because it involves mastery of one of the core components of football - passing - and a cerebral nature on some level, and this is widely recognised as the aspect that Ronaldo falls down on, so I would say that's a definite exaggeration. Some people may love playmaking, dribbling and very little else, and the elegance and poise of someone like Silva, Hazard or Messi is the one thing they desire in a football match. If that's the case then Ronaldo won't be that enjoyable to watch. It'd be a bit strange because that's only one aspect of football but then there are some people who seem to only enjoy watching certain players or certain teams and have no time for football outside of that so it's not that strange when you look at the wider context.
Regardless, there are so many things that Ronaldo does exceptionally well outside of playmaking - which is undoubtedly a weakness - and goalscoring - which is obviously his core strength - that often get lost in these debates because people get sucked into debating in extremes and talking in hyperbole just to get their point across, simply because the same points have been said over and over and over again that the only way to make your point heard and have some semblance of a "discussion" is by sensationalising things. Which is one of the main reasons threads like these are absolutely awful.
I say that as someone who has been involved in all sides of the "debate" since the beginning too. When we reached the CL final I was adamant Ronaldo was the better, more complete player than Messi, then from 2009 up until around the beginning of last season I was in no doubt whatsoever that Messi was a level above, and then it looked like Ronaldo had a chance of surpassing Messi over the course of their careers through sheer will, determination and staying power while Messi looked physically and mentally drained for a long period of time...and now I'm back to thinking Messi's more or less untouchable. No doubt in that time I've spoken in hyperbole and discussed in extremes on a regular basis - it's just the nature of the debate at this stage. It does make for pretty rubbish discussion though.
For example some people come into the debate simply to say Ronaldo and Messi are the greatest ever, there's no argument to be had, modern football trumps all and that's all there is to it. The point in itself isn't that contentious but it's the underlying attitude and framing of the point that sort of sums up the debate. If your stance is that modern football is better than older football and the exceptional players of this era are therefore better than the exceptional players of previous eras, then why not simply describe them as the best players in the world (which ? It can only be because saying they're the best in the world isn't sensational enough, because it doesn't add anything else to the table.
Anyway, back to talking about Ronaldo rather than the Ronaldo and Messi debate itself...could anyone really argue against Ronaldo being exceptional at the following?
- Athleticism (strength, speed, leap)
- Technique (first touch, striking, heading)
- Intelligence (positioning, timing)
- Mental strength
- Flair
The main thing I think that gets forgotten is Ronaldo's first touch. It's pretty much perfect. Definitely the best I've ever seen at United and quite possibly the best we've ever had at United. Ronaldo can be somewhat mechanical but a great first touch is one of the most beautiful things in football and Ronaldo definitely excels in that area.
Even when you just look at goals alone...to bunch it all together as just a load of tap-ins is ludicrous. He scores some genuinely outrageous goals from range that involve a mastery of a really difficult technique, but even if you just look at his goals from close range, is it really fair to bunch this goal in with a 2-yard tap-in?
Not for me. That's exceptional skill that involves technique, athleticism, creativity and intelligence and you'll see very, very, very few goals like it...I don't think it's unreasonable to call it unique. It's unique, it's skilful and it's pleasing on the eye but in some bizarre way, just because it'a goal scored within the box, it's disregarded as being a boring old tap-in. That's the unfortunate result of debates like this.
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I think we are endangering of dissecting the subjective too much here. I can appreciate trying to logic out what it is that leads others to deem Ronaldo 'boring' and Messi not. But this is judt an experience unique to the viewer. The same as why one work of art is beautiful to one individual, and not to another. It is a subjective appreciation which is unique to the individual.
Easier to kill and control a ball at slow pace. You (Scholes) could hit Ronaldo with a rocket and he'd redirect the ball into space perfectly on the run.
People often forget the debates that were had about RVN and Henry. Very similar when you actually think about it.
In terms of elegance yes, in terms of variety and consistency no chance. Ronaldo's control with any part of his body is so far ahead of Mata it's untrue, IMO. Mata might have the better first touch in plucking the ball out of the sky with his toe but there's so much more to having a great first touch than that.
#TeamCal
The tattoo has killed it. Ronaldo forever.....or well until he just gets himself a shit tat I can see.
The tattoo has killed it. Ronaldo forever.....or well until he just gets himself a shit tat I can see.
He is starting to win headers now Messi has worked hard defensively.
Messi has worked hard defensively.
Did you even bother to read before quoting and replying?
Pretty sure he added that in because that's who the other 2 were quoting, but anyway.
Messi excellent tonight. No goals/assists though so the stat mugs probably disagree.
Have you ever watched a game and not thought he's excellent??
I have. Tonight isn't one of them.
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