Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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This thread has become hilarious only due to Ronaldo fanboys arguments now being used against them.

I actually don't mind the Messi vs Ronaldo debates as I find it quite interesting but the last 2 months in this thread has been destroyed by the usual suspects and their ridiculous arguments to get one up on the other.
 
Obviously Ronaldo's not to blame for Juve going out. Nobody could've asked for more than 5 goals in 4 KO matches. You can hardly blame his team mates either, I'd say it's the manager's fault. After all they still have a significantly better squad than Ajax and Allegri simply doesn't know how to use all the attacking talent Juve actually possesses. Cristiano, Dybala, Costa, ...

Yet I have no doubt that if it happened the other way round, many in here would call a certain someone a choker so I can at least somewhat understand all the gloating in here.
 
Obviously Ronaldo's not to blame for Juve going out. Nobody could've asked for more than 5 goals in 4 KO matches. You can hardly blame his team mates either, I'd say it's the manager's fault. After all they still have a significantly better squad than Ajax and Allegri simply doesn't know how to use all the attacking talent Juve actually possesses. Cristiano, Dybala, Costa, ...

Yet I have no doubt that if it happened the other way round, many in here would call a certain someone a choker so I can at least somewhat understand all the gloating in here.

I don't know. Upsets happen. We had no business knocking PSG out with our reserves and youngsters. This shit happens in cup competions.
 
Obviously Ronaldo's not to blame for Juve going out. Nobody could've asked for more than 5 goals in 4 KO matches. You can hardly blame his team mates either, I'd say it's the manager's fault. After all they still have a significantly better squad than Ajax and Allegri simply doesn't know how to use all the attacking talent Juve actually possesses. Cristiano, Dybala, Costa, ...

Yet I have no doubt that if it happened the other way round, many in here would call a certain someone a choker so I can at least somewhat understand all the gloating in here.

He does know how to, they were just out injured. Costa, Dybala and Mandzukic were out. Dybala coming off completely changed the game.
 
Who is else is going to win it? Salah or Aguero? Not impossible, but it clear who is the best player in the world this year.

Maybe Sterling if he plays a big part in these last few games and City win the Quad and he also inspires England to win the Nations League.
 
Who'll win it then? It seems to me that he'll take it by default this year more or less now that Ronaldo is out.

Van Dijk and Sterling might depending on how the rest of the season goes imo. Everything still to play for in Europe and there's the international tournaments in the summer.

With Modric winning it last season, it's anything but a certainty despite Messi being the clear favourite as of now.
 
Maybe Sterling if he plays a big part in these last few games and City win the Quad and he also inspires England to win the Nations League.

I honestly don't think Sterling is ever going to win the Ballon'dor. He's a quality player, but he doesn't have the profile for it. Even if Messi and Ronaldo don't dominate the CL their profile is on a different level. I guess you could say that same about Modric, but Modric had been a key player in winning 4 Cl's and captained his team to the WC final. Sterling just doesn't have that romance or buzz around him.
 
He does know how to, they were just out injured. Costa, Dybala and Mandzukic were out. Dybala coming off completely changed the game.

Well, they were available in the first leg and still Bernardeschi started over both on the right wing. So far Allegri has not really found a way to fit Dybala and Cristiano into one system which really is a shame. I think Juve would do significantly better with a proactive manager. They got pace, technique, goal threat, physique, basically everything you can ask for in a quick transition team. Someone like Klopp would turn them into a real offensive force.
 
Van Dijk and Sterling might depending on how the rest of the season goes imo. Everything still to play for in Europe and there's the international tournaments in the summer.

With Modric winning it last season, it's anything but a certainty despite Messi being the clear favourite as of now.

There is no world cup now to skewer the facts. Cannavaro won it in '06, and Varane came third in '18, all WC years. I just don't see any defender winning it without truly excelling in the WC. Sterling, you surely can't be serious?
 
Who'll win it then? It seems to me that he'll take it by default this year more or less now that Ronaldo is out.
Maybe Sterling if he plays a big part in these last few games and City win the Quad and he also inspires England to win the Nations League.
VVD already has massive hype from the media and 3 trophies he could win. A "shutting down Messi in the SF" storyline would help him too.
It's unlikely because a lot would need to go his way, but possible.
 
Well, they were available in the first leg and still Bernardeschi started over both on the right wing. So far Allegri has not really found a way to fit Dybala and Cristiano into one system which really is a shame. I think Juve would do significantly better with a proactive manager. They got pace, technique, goal threat, physique, basically everything you can ask for in a quick transition team. Someone like Klopp would turn them into a real offensive force.

I think they can be the defensive team they are, they just need Chiellini to stay fit and buy one of De Ligt or Alderweireld. You can't play conservately while constantly putting the likes of Rugani, Caceres and Bonucci under pressure. That attack can always get a goal out of nothing, that's not the problem.

It's easy to criticize the approach but I think without injuries the gameplan would have worked. They need midfielders that can actually escape the pressure in order not to get dominated by any half decent team that can press though. Eriksen/Ndombele and De Ligt/Alderweireld should be their main targets imo.
 
VVD already has massive hype from the media and 3 trophies he could win. A "shutting down Messi in the SF" storyline would help him too.
It's unlikely, but possible.

He's a defender. Obviously superior defenders to him (Baresi, Scirea, Maldini off the top of my head) have not come close to winning it. With this mindset that the B'Dor is basically an award solely for CL knockouts besides the WC years, I couldn't completely rule out a blunder of that magnitude, but I don't think that'll happen.
 
Messi will not win it if Liverpool fecks Barca up in the SF.
Even if Messi doesn't turn up for either SF legs, no one from City or Liverpool will have the individual performances or stats to win the Ballandor. They're not going to give it to a defender in non WC year so VVD is out imo and I don't see any of Sterling/Salah/Aguero/Mane being able to win it. Messi's performances and stats have both been spectacular this year and he's also both the top scorer in all of Europe and also in the CL. Even if he doesn't win the CL, his forward rivals would need atleast a 30-35 goal season along with the CL to win it. Ronaldo was the only one who could ever both match the stats and also have the CL trophy. This year, Messi apart, there really has not been one standout performer in the CL from the attackers of LFC/City.
 
Who do people think would win in an actual physical fight between Messi and Ronaldo?

My feeling is Ronaldo’s hair pulling skills may win out but I reckon Messi could be quite creative in his assaults.
 
Who do people think would win in an actual physical fight between Messi and Ronaldo?

My feeling is Ronaldo’s hair pulling skills may win out but I reckon Messi could be quite creative in his assaults.

Messi could punch him in the balls all indefnitely.
 
So, so far. Who of Messi and Ronaldo have had the best season so far? I'd say that Messi has outperformed Ronaldo in the league and they have been about equal in the CL so far. Ronaldo maybe better with his hattrick against athletico. Obviously Messi getting a brace against us today was impressive, but we are really not a top team at the moment. top4-6 at best.
 
Yes, but Ronaldo could have a good headbutt on him.

I hope this happens. Just to settle in once and for wall. Obviously Ronaldo is a freak athelete, but Messi is a midget wizard, you never know what kind of shit, he could pull. If Ronaldo pulled his hair, messi could make an overhead kick in his balls, and I also think Messi taunts would work far better on Ronaldo since he is so prideful.

I imagine Ronaldo can kick and punch fairly hard though. Zlatan would destroy them both.
 
So, so far. Who of Messi and Ronaldo have had the best season so far? I'd say that Messi has outperformed Ronaldo in the league and they have been about equal in the CL so far. Ronaldo maybe better with his hattrick against athletico. Obviously Messi getting a brace against us today was impressive, but we are really not a top team at the moment. top4-6 at best.

Messi by some distance.

45 goals/21 assists in 42 games vs 26 goals/12 assists in 38 games. Messi has played 200 minutes less football than Ronaldo and scored 19 extra goals with 9 extra assists.
 
Messi by some distance.

45 goals/21 assists in 42 games vs 26 goals/12 assists in 38 games. Messi has played 200 minutes less football than Ronaldo and scored 19 extra goals with 9 extra assists.

Everything can't be measured in stats though, but of course when we talk about Messi he is the goalscorer and the playmaker. If Ronaldo can't outscore him he's not better.
 
Everything can't be measured in stats though, but of course when we talk about Messi he is the goalscorer and the playmaker. If Ronaldo can't outscore him he's not better.

Pretty much.
 
So, so far. Who of Messi and Ronaldo have had the best season so far? I'd say that Messi has outperformed Ronaldo in the league and they have been about equal in the CL so far. Ronaldo maybe better with his hattrick against athletico. Obviously Messi getting a brace against us today was impressive, but we are really not a top team at the moment. top4-6 at best.

How exactly? Messi has missed a couple of the group stage games and he's still the top scorer in the CL (4 goals more than Ronaldo) and he's got 4 knockout goals to Ronaldo's 5. Messi has definitely been the superior player in terms of both stats and performances in both the league and the CL.
 
Let's ignore his 2 goals. The 2nd was a total keeper error.

Other than that, Messi had a hand in the other 2 goals Barca scored. Neither were assists, so neither will be counted in the stats. Both were penultimate passes - to Suarex for the own goal (so Suarez gets the assist) and to Alba for Coutinho (Alba's assist).

The fact is he played a major role in both goals, and no statistician will be able to see that. Again today, he had a wonderful run from the halfway line, destroying Jones, destabilising the whole defence, and then slipping in Alba whose cross just missed Suarez. Even if that went in, he would again get no statistical credit for it. And for good reason. "Penultimate passes" isn't a great metric - you could literally have a 5-yard pass from defender to midfielder, midfielder then finds a brilliant through ball. In statistical terms, both that hypothetical defender and Messi in the Coutinho goal did the same thing.

It's thus very hard to quantify creativity - find the "key" pass (or passes - Busquets had a massive role in the away goal) in a move. And I think Messi generates a lot more creative passing than Ronaldo, even in some bad games, which will go uncounted. Given their very similar goalscoring numbers, for me this is one of the differentiating criteria. The counter will be Ronaldo's movement creating space for others - it does - but this is even more subjective, and genrally in a GOAT debate you'd value on-the-ball creativity over off-the-ball runs, for the same reason that Gerd Muller never gets into the GOAT debate.

And without that quantification of creativity, we have 2 quarterfinals:
winning team 4-0, goals scored 2, assists 0.
losing team 2-3, goals scored 2, assists 0.
 
Based on this season Messi has been the better player but its understandable because of the circumstances.Nonetheless he has been better.
 
Worst Barca team I've seen since 2008.

Messi and our incompetence won the game.

Saying that, he has declined slightly.
 
That has more to do with Barca not being as consistent in La Liga as last season, even if they win their last 6 league games, they'd still finish on fewer points than last season.

Real Madrid finished 3rd. It was a disaster of a season comparable to this one. Only difference is they fluked that one last CL with Ronaldo performing his usual
disappearing act in the final.

This Real Madrid side is performing the same in the league now as they did with the supposed miracle worker Ronaldo. And that’s with plenty of ageing key players being a year older.

And their loss to Ajax doesn’t seem so bad now that they knocked out Juventus. This is a genuinely good Ajax side.
 
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I honestly don't think Sterling is ever going to win the Ballon'dor. He's a quality player, but he doesn't have the profile for it. Even if Messi and Ronaldo don't dominate the CL their profile is on a different level. I guess you could say that same about Modric, but Modric had been a key player in winning 4 Cl's and captained his team to the WC final. Sterling just doesn't have that romance or buzz around him.
More a case of him not being good enough to win it.
 
Againnthe difference was clear to see gor thosr that understand football.
Take out Messi's and Ronaldo's goals and you will see clearly who was better. Thats the simple difference. There is no argument. The dribbling, passing etc is beyond anyone in the world.
Compare goal scorers fair enough. Both are very close but every other aspect of the game except heading Messi is way way way superior. If you cant see that you dont understand the beautiful game. Simple as
 
Againnthe difference was clear to see gor thosr that understand football.
Take out Messi's and Ronaldo's goals and you will see clearly who was better. Thats the simple difference. There is no argument. The dribbling, passing etc is beyond anyone in the world.
Compare goal scorers fair enough. Both are very close but every other aspect of the game except heading Messi is way way way superior. If you cant see that you dont understand the beautiful game. Simple as

Take the goals out of Ronaldo and you get Nani. Take the goals out of Messi and you get Xavi.

Someone else said it but I thought it was well put.
 
it's quite telling that Ronaldo absolutely has to win CL for this thread to stay alive. that's what so called "Messi brigade" were saying all along though. the fact he's been already written off even by his fans says it all, even though it's far from certain Barca will win CL this year. it's almost as close to admitting he simply can't be compared to Messi as individual unless he can somehow compensate it (with CL trophy). any other scenario is dead end for him in this debate; they both break leg at the start of the season - Messi remains better. they both go out in quarters - Messi remains better. Messi wins CL - Messi just confirms what was already obvious etc.
 
Messi's first goal vs Utd yesterday was better than any goal scored by CR this season.

Well Barca actually try & play football. Little chance of that if you're playing for Juve :D
 
Againnthe difference was clear to see gor thosr that understand football.
Take out Messi's and Ronaldo's goals and you will see clearly who was better. Thats the simple difference. There is no argument. The dribbling, passing etc is beyond anyone in the world.
Compare goal scorers fair enough. Both are very close but every other aspect of the game except heading Messi is way way way superior. If you cant see that you dont understand the beautiful game. Simple as

Excellent point. There's a reason why Diego, Cruyff and Pele are regarded as the greatest. Besides the goals, they possessed an all round game like none had seen before. Total footballers who could dribble, pass and playmake at a very elite level. Messi joins this company. Cristiano as a playmaker is comparatively just decent, there have been many better in history. Thus, he will never sit at that top table, goals or not (ask Muller, many in his own country even prefer the great Beckenbauer). He'll have to contend with the Di Stefanos and Puskas's of this world (still a great place to be mind).
 
Well Barca actually try & play football. Little chance of that if you're playing for Juve :D

And yet Juventus have the most goals scored in the league this season while Ronaldo is 4th top scorer behind 36 year old Quagliarella.
 
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