Yeah I'd probably have Madrid favorites at that stage over anyone but Barcelona (if they somehow made it that far themselves). I believe the only team over the last 3 years that could have beaten Madrid over 2 legs is Barca.
Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance
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But now we're talking about past year, or 2 years ago when they had James, Morata, Isco and a younger Modric, Benzema and Marcelo? or past season?.
Madrid were against the ropes a bunch of times past year, and their run had some things I've never seen in my life, you don't usually get gifted 3 goals in the SF 2nd leg + the final by goalkeeper mistakes. Their last season had nothing in common with the 2017 season, were they were the best team in almost every game of their UCL run and managed to win La Liga.
They didn't magically turn from best team in Europe to shit the day Ronaldo took the plane to Torino, the signs were there to see, that's why Zidane left, now that he's came back it seems more obvious than ever that he wasn't burned out or tired of success, he knew what was coming, that Ronaldo's departure would make it even worse, and he escaped the debacle.
Allegri plays this way because it's how he always plays. Saying he plays how he does because of Ronaldo when he's been doing the exact same year after year before Ronaldo arrived is nonsensical.
Current Barcelona and Argentina aren't suited to Messi's strengths as much as Pep's Barca was. They still suit him though, especially Barcelona of course. I don't say Barcelona and Argentina become predictable and one-dimensional in certain circumstances because of Messi, I said that's the case because they often play to get the best out of Messi rather than to get the best out of everyone else.
I don't want Allegri to think about his tactics on how to get the best out of Ronaldo, he needs to get the best out of the team, then Ronaldo will adapt to it and play his part even if he doesn't have a 10/10 game. Like it happened yesterday to some extent.
Dybala has been having physical problems, Bernardeschi came in, had the best performance of his life vs Atletico which is why he kept his place. They were expected to play more counterattacking yesterday which suits Bernardeschi, Juve don't really have a set starting eleven. Dybala played 37 games so far this season, started in 27.
I hope nobody is fooled by this. Classic case of setting agenda nice and early so when they do win it you can go crazy with how much of an achievement it is and how he was up against it from the start.
Madrid is a basket case mate. Half of their players have forgotten how to play football and they're onto their 3rd manager of the season ffs.
So you think it's easier to win it with Juve than with Madrid despite the fact that's he won it 3 times in a row with Madrid in the past 3 years?? Surely that makes him look better, not worse.
I geniunely think winning the Champions League with this Juve team would be more impressive than any of his previous titles though. You might disagree, but it's my honest opinion.
Madrid were grasping running on fumes last year. Absolutely no way would they have won CL had Ronaldo stayed. The team has fallen off a cliff. Ronaldo might have them go a round further but last year really felt like the end of Madrid.
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Yes because Madrid have been a complete shambles this season.
God this thread... is quite something. It truly will be a legendary thread here in the CAF after these two retire. Hell they may even write papers about Peyroteo's posts in a few decades.
Messi plays a bad game (to his standards, and with a nearly broken nose) but still creates the goal that gives Barca the win at Old Trafford and he's shite, he played like shit, CR7 creative beast, header beast, Messi chokes, etc. Shit, Barca still won pretty much because of a creation of his...
Yet just last year, Real Madrid beat Liverpool while CR7 played like absolute shit, barely doing anything with the ball, fuking up every pass, being shit overall and nobody said anything. CR7 goat CL winner.
Kind of tells you how these two players are measured ITT. One is expected to have a 9/10 performance every game, and the other one not.
Messi plays a bad game (to his standards, and with a nearly broken nose) but still creates the goal that gives Barca the win at Old Trafford and he's shite, he played like shit, CR7 creative beast, header beast, Messi chokes, etc. Shit, Barca still won pretty much because of a creation of his...
Yet just last year, Real Madrid beat Liverpool while CR7 played like absolute shit, barely doing anything with the ball, fuking up every pass, being shit overall and nobody said anything. CR7 goat CL winner.
Kind of tells you how these two players are measured ITT. One is expected to have a 9/10 performance every game, and the other one not.
The main reason Ronaldo went to Juventus is because he knew that they would automatically win the league, and he could dial in his league performances, and even be rested in the league quite frequently, and save himself for the CL.
It's an unbelievably massive advantage for Juventus that they were always going to win the league, like they have the last 7 seasons, they're already one win away from being mathematically confirmed as champions, and they've had it in the bag for months. Same with Real last season, where they completely concentrated on the Champions League because their domestic season was over by Christmas.
Barcelona this season will benefit from having pretty much wrapped the league up, but if you look at the other divisions, there's a tight title race in the Bundesliga, Porto are tied on points at the top of the Portugese league, ditto Ajax in the Netherlands, and the Premier League is by far the most competitive league in Europe.
Juventus have already been able to completely concentrate on the CL from the knockout stage onwards, the league is just a complete procession, which is a massive advantage. It's actually quite sad what has happened to football in Italy because when I was growing up Serie A was super competitive and by far the best league in Europe, and now it's in a dreadful state.
I'm sure when Madrid & Barça were doing almost 100 points you were saying La Liga was a joke and uncompetitive. But whatever.
Two teams winning almost everygame doesn't make a league competitive.
The Spanish league has been the best league in Europe for some years. Whether it is now is debatable, but it probably will be again next season after Real have gone mental in the transfer market.
However, it is certainly an advantage for some European teams that they are not challenged in their domestic leagues, and can rest players. As I mentioned, Juventus have just played an Ajax team that is in the middle of a very tight title race, in a competition that they can realistically win (they can't realistically win the CL). So obviously that is a massive advantage. In the semi-finals they will play either Man City, who are also in the middle of a close title battle, or Spurs, who will have to fight tooth-and-nail to get a top four place. So that will clearly be an advantage.
The same to a lesser extent could be said of Barcelona. They will have to keep one eye on the league, but they're not anywhere near being in the position of their likely opponents Liverpool, who really, really want to win the PL, and have been batting for the title all season.
Clearly this has been an advantage to some clubs, it was a massive advantage for Real last season that they completely focused on the CL because they had no chance of winning domestic competitions by Christmas. Obviously that is an advantage.
It is over-emphasised in England, but it is a big disadvantage for English clubs that the PL is the most competitive division, with the highest number of teams competing at the top end of the table. That does count against them in the CL, and any team that is walking through their domestic programme, as Juve are, undoubtedly has a big advantage.
Last year Serie A had the best title race in a top league in years... Juve won it by 4 points last year and by 5 points in the year before that.
Juve get the advantage of resting players for the CL after having an incredible league season. They've dropped 9 points all season. Without Ronaldo they most likely win it anyway but it would be closer and they wouldn't get to rest players.
The main reason Ronaldo went to Juventus was that they payed a lot more than Madrid did. Obviously he'd want to move to somewhere with enough quality to win big titles but he definitely didn't leave Madrid because of it. If he wanted easy titles he wouldn't have spent the best years of his career playing against the best domestic team in football history.
He doesn't care about domestic titles, he wants to win the CL so that he can win the Ballon d'Or because that is the only way he'll look better than Messi. If it's based on who objectively is the better footballer then he's never going to look better.
I'm afraid that you can't claim that Serie A is a competitive league, as Juventus have won it seven years in succession, and will definitely make it eight at a canter this season. This is actually a sub-par season for them domestically, as they did the double in the previous four seasons.
Not only that, but Juventus are the only Italian team to make the CL final in the last decade, and no Italian side has been in the Europa League final since 1999. Napoli lost two of their best players and their coach, and they're still comfortably second. That's how little competition there is in Italy. It's a shame because it used to be a great division, but now it's unwatchable rubbish. This Serie A campaign has been utterly pointless, except for generating money for people who are already rich.
Having said that, the entirety of European football is in a terrible state due to a variety of factors, including the interminable CL and the greed of the big clubs, and there is very little competitive or good football played. Much though Messi has been brilliant this season, the Spanish League has been rubbish. Almost completely pointless, except as a canvas for Messi to show off his brilliance. As a competition, it has been non-existent, although it's been somewhat better than Serie A and Ligue 1.
The CL could be good if it didn't drag on for so long, to the same inevitable conclusion of basically the same clubs every year, with luck playing a major part, not least due to scheduling. If they ever had the balls to set up a European Super League then that would be genuinely interesting, but the clubs that want to set it up would want to water that down, and have a knockout competition after the league was over, so that as many of them as possible could be guaranteed yet more TV money.
I've never been a fan of the CL for this reason, but increasingly the domestic leagues are rubbish as well. This is what happens when greed is allowed to rule over competition and fairness.
And by objectively... you mean subjectively of course
You clearly dislike it and say it's unwatchable... so how would you know if you don't watch it?
Roma knocked Atletico and Barcelona out of the Champions League just last season, the level is nowhere near as poor as it used to be a few years ago. Serie A s getting better with each year that passes. Napoli did not lose their two best players. They only lost Jorginho. And replaced him with Fabian Ruiz who has been just as good if not better.
Milik coming back from injury has been like a new signing too.
Bloody hell. Why do you even watch football if you dislike it so much? Which club do you support?
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Well all players need their team mates, this isn't tennis. Messi needs his team mates more so than Ronaldo, he has to play in a system that is very specific and continually have the ball recycled through him.
Strongly disagree. You nulify CR7's teammates, and give him no service, and what does he do? Nothing. If his teammates have a bad game then he has a bad game as well.
You nullify Messi's teammates and he still bails the team out, more often than not.
I don't think we'll ever agree, it's nuts to me what you are saying though. Without delivery from others Ronaldo can hardly score, Messi can be the opposite
It's been reported he may have suffered a nasal fracture and had trouble breathing during the game.
I think anyone would have struggled with that.
The CL has been great these last few seasons - fantastic comebacks and high-scoring games. Only thing that is shit is that we've barely been a part of it.
I love how inaccurate this thread has become - both bail their team or, in Ronaldo's case, team(s) out constantly and consistently.
Not true at all. You can go through countless matches over the years where Ronaldo has pulled a rabbit out of the hat for his team to achieve victory. Literally dozens.
Like against the recent CL knock-out ties, and all cup finals of Argentina. He sure bailed them out by going into retirement.
Ya, "god this thread" indeed
I support a team in the bottom division in England that will never achieve anything. I don't really even support them, in all honesty, because there's no point. They can't compete in the money-dominated world that exists now, they just exist so that some bored people have something to do on a Saturday.
I suppose the reason I watch is that I work from home, I've watched it all my life for several decades, and it's hard to let go completely! But the current state of the game is very bad, with entirely predictable outcomes of every major European league, and some of the smaller leagues are even worse, because the clubs that qualify for the Champions League every season, even though they can never win the Champions League, get a windfall from that competition.
In England, we are fortunate that there are now six big clubs, so even though they now dominate the league and it's almost impossible for any other club to break into that top six, there is at least some uncertainty over who will win the league. Having said that, it's no surprise that City and Liverpool have been the two clubs in the title race. In every other major European league, the result has been almost inevitable. Bayern have had their worst season in years, Dortmund have played out of their skin, and it still looks like Bayern will win the Bundesliga! Again. And did anyone really expect anyone other than Barcelona, PSG and Juventus to win the other leagues?
Even though I believe that Messi is the better player, it's a shame that Ronaldo has gone to Italy, even Messi has expressed this. I cannot accept that this has been a challenge for him at Juventus, or that Serie A is an interesting league. It just isn't. Virtually from the first ball kicked, it's been a foregone conclusion, and Juventus have been going through the motions for weeks, if not months. Napoli were decimated in the summer, and they're still second, and Juventus are 27 points ahead of anyone else.
I do think La Liga will get more interesting next season. Real are bound to spend an absolute fortune, why they didn't this season, I don't really understand. But, realistically, it's still going to be etiher Barcelona or Real as champions, with Atletico grimly hanging on in third. The one thing that has kept me interested is watching Messi, who can do things that I haven't seen done before, but it will be a grim spectacle once he has gone.
Equally, ask yourself this question...what will you do when Ronaldo stops playing? Would you really watch Juventus canter to another league title if they didn't have Ronaldo? Did you watch them last season? Messi and Ronaldo have captured the imagination of football supporters, but when they are gone the reality is that the 'product' delivered by most of the European leagues is pretty dire. Fans still turn up due to habit and tribalism, but I do wonder how long that can be sustained when there is no competition.
That's why the big clubs are pushing for the European Super League in the first place. It's not just money, it's also the fact that, for example, PSG's entire season comes down to the CL knockout stages! The French league is a walkover for them. Monaco had the temerity to win the league a few years ago, so they nicked their best player, while other bigger clubs also signed some of their top performers, and now Monaco are 16th. PSG are 20 points clear with a game in hand, and their goal difference is 49 better than the team in 2nd place. So they hung around waiting for the CL knockout stages for five months, and were then eliminated by a dodgy penalty!
The same principle pretty much applies to Juventus. But I'm not saying anything here that hasn't been said is numerous articles, and which isn't easily observable.
It's like Ronaldo has never scored a solo goal or a long range effort out of nothing...
Well no, quarter final and semi final UCL goals would say otherwise.
He has but not nearly as often as Messi. Still the greatest goalscorer of the CL
Wednesday proved this theory to be false.
Both can create moments if magic e.g Ronaldo bicycle kick or long range hits, incredible headers (e.g Roma) .
Which games are that supposed to be? Ronaldo bailed his teams out, true, but not through taking on multiple defenders, long shots or something like that. The Ronaldo who did that regularly (and still less than any iteration of Messi) is long gone. And though I think this Cristiano was the best one (2008-2012), he's won far less than his later self who focused on finishing attacks his team created. So for you guys who value KO stages and titles that much, that last 4-5 years should've been the best CR7.
Personally, I have a hard time remembering when Cristiano had a big stage game like Messi last season against Chelsea or 2015 against Bayern when he scored or assisted goals almost entirely created by his own.
The bicycle kick was after a cross put in by his team mates so that completely contradicts what he described. And Ronaldo's long range threat are long gobe and it's for the better of his teams.
Does this count?
No.
Unless Ronaldo scores a goal from a goal-kick, none of his goals countOverhead kick is someone creating a chance for Ronaldo
Imagine Goal of the Century will also be counted as a goal created by someone else for Maradona. I mean, someone did pass the ball to him, right?
Unless Ronaldo scores a goal from a goal-kick, none of his goals count
Imagine Goal of the Century will also be counted as a goal created by someone else for Maradona. I mean, someone did pass the ball to him, right?
See, we were talking about goals that were not only scored but also created by the eventual goal scorer. Goals created independently. In this scenario, he had one action and this took place already in the box. It is obvious that he wouldn't have scored it if not for the build up and the cross. You really can't see the difference?
It wasn't a great cross, it was played behind him. That's making something out of nothing really.
It was created by the eventual goal scorer. That was not a chance created, he made it as a chance created.
Unless Ronaldo scores a goal from a goal-kick, none of his goals count
Imagine Goal of the Century will also be counted as a goal created by someone else for Maradona. I mean, someone did pass the ball to him, right?
Imagine arguing that overhead kick was chance created for Ronaldo and he had "Just 1 action"
That's indeed true and it was a great goal. But it's not a great example of creating a goal scoring opportunity for a team mate or yourself when your team can't get the ball forward. It was a spectacular finishing, extremely difficult, yet it was the finishing of an attack.
First they said ronaldo only scores tap in and now even his overhead kicks are being attributed to his teammates.
Mental gymnastics at its peak.
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