Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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Haha why did you edit out the part about losing on penalties in the CL and Euros and how ”unlucky” that was? Realized how stupid it sounded?

Aren’t you the same guy that constantly berates Argentina for losing on penalties and how badly it reflects on Messi? No bad luck then, of course :lol::lol::lol:

You think it's stupid, so did I. Hence my irony about it... I know that irony might be hard to grasp when written but your reading comprehension is something else let me tell you. The whole damn post was slating people dismissing any sort of success by shouting for luck. And you somehow got out of it that I was blaming the results on luck.

Thanks for agreeing with me, even if apparently you don't realize it.
 
We could have won but we didn’t want to.

Hazard could do what Messi does but he doesn’t want to.

I could have been a pro footballer I just didn’t want to.

They could have won but didn’t want to is such a weak argument.

We spent the last 30 minutes of the Hungary game with both teams barely attacking after Hungary hit the post. A weak argument is pretending things would have gone the same way if we needed to win.

Fernando Santos is one of the most conservative managers in football right now, a draw in the groups while 3 teams make it through is a good result.
 
Creative as in helping his team create chances through every way possible in the sport, sure. If you mean creative in the sense of dribbling past players and playing through balls then absolutely not.

Ronaldo heading the ball at the first post on a corner for a player to tap it in on the second post wouldn’t be considered a creative move by a lot of people.

Do you think those people, and I'm guessing you think they are the majority, whom wouldn't consider a Ronaldo near post header as creative as a Messi through ball to be wrong? I really don't think a near post header is an example of creativity and relies more on athleticism than ingenuity.
 
Do you think those people, and I'm guessing you think they are the majority, whom wouldn't consider a Ronaldo near post header as creative as a Messi through ball to be wrong? I really don't think a near post header is an example of creativity and relies more on athleticism than ingenuity.

It creates a chance, so it should by definition be considered a creative move imo. When fans talk about 'creating a chance', in their mind they see a pass breaking the lines of the defense leaving a striker 1 on 1 vs the keeper regardless of the fact that it's just one rare example of all the ways goalscoring chances happen in the sport.

Out of all goals or goalscoring chances that happen in football, how many do you think come after either a dribbling move or a through ball? 20%? 30%?
 
It creates a chance, so it should by definition be considered a creative move imo. When fans talk about 'creating a chance', in their mind they see a pass breaking the lines of the defense leaving a striker 1 on 1 vs the keeper regardless of the fact that it's just one rare example of all the ways goalscoring chances happen in the sport.

Out of all goals or goalscoring chances that happen in football, how many do you think come after either a dribbling move or a through ball? 20%? 30%?

And why do you think the majority of people consider such a through ball as more creative than a near post header?
 
And why do you think the majority of people consider such a through ball as more creative than a near post header?

Because there is a clearer intention to create a chance, it requires more natural talent on the ball and it's better to watch.
 
This is probably the only season in recent times where i will say i even if Ronaldo some how wins the Champions League with Juve Messi should still win Balon dor.
No matter what happens hes been that good.
 
This is probably the only season in recent times where i will say i even if Ronaldo some how wins the Champions League with Juve Messi should still win Balon dor.
No matter what happens hes been that good.

Ballon D'Or is in 9 months...
 
Not being entirely honest are you? You say that the only quality players in those teams from 08 to 14 was Moutinho and Nani.
Wrong. 2 examples; Ricky Carvalho and Pepe as defenders were considered top class during that period (Ricky especially had come off a very good 07-08 club season). Paolo Ferreira was a very good full back.
Here's Portugals squad for Euro 2008 and tell me it is devoid of quality besides Nani and Moutinho: They weren't even the best 2 players in the squad.

Ricardo Pereira (Real Betis)
Quim Silva (Benfica)
Rui Patricio (Sporting)
Miguel Monteiro (Valencia)
Jose Bosingwa (Porto, to join Chelsea after tournament)
Paulo Ferreira (Chelsea)
Ricardo Carvalho (Chelsea)
Fernando Meira (VfB Stuttgart)
Bruno Alves (Porto)
Pepe (Real Madrid)
Jorge Ribeiro (Boavista)
Raul Meireles (Porto)
Joao Moutinho (Sporting)
Deco (Barcelona)
Armando Petit (Benfica)
Miguel Veloso (Sporting)
Cristiano Ronaldo (Manchester United)
Simao Sabrosa (Atletico Madrid)
Ricardo Quaresma (Porto)
Nuno Gomes (Benfica)
Hugo Almeida (Werder Bremen)
Nani (Manchester United)
Helder Postiga (Panathinaikos)
Ok let me pick it apart 1 by 1. Carvalho stopped playing for Portugal in 08. Cameback in 2015....

Next. Bosingwa was average. Paulo Ferreira gives me nightmares. Meireles one of the worst midfielders I can remember wearing the shirt. Veloso average. Simao old and declining. Nuno Gomes average. Hugo Almedia...Seriously? Postiga...Seriously? Petit average. Deco Sadly aging and was not the same as the deco in 06. Quaresma barely even came off the bench.

Do you want to continue to look at the squad onwards from 08 up until 14? because it gets much worse. Ronaldo has played with far worse players and teams in his national team and if anyone here thinks otherwise then I genuinely want some of whatever they are smoking.

Also the bit about Moutinho and Nani was a generalization. In 08 they were both still "babies" the 08 team was a decent team but nothing to write home about.
 
It's not about teammates, Portugal were insanely more cohesive as a team than Argentina ever were.

And look at Portugal without Ronaldo, 7 matches in a row without a loss, Argentina without Messi on the other hand are a disaster.

Look at the context of the teams and you'd understand.

Do you intentionally repeat the same stuff over and over again and hope that they will be taken as gospel truth at some point of time? Portugal went 6 match unbeaten , 3 w 3 d. Has been pointed out many times but still you intentionally harp on the same point. Argentina beat Chile without Messi, then gets beaten by Chile with Messi. As per your logic, Argentina doesn't need Messi at all.

Just to clarify again, I have no problem with people acknowedging Messi as better of the two. But it is the likes of you who constantly claim that Messi is lightyears ahead of Ronaldo irk me like anything. If that was the case, it would have been 10-0 instead of 5-5
 
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Yes, but Chile are better than any team Portugal faced outside of France.

Wales were injured and one of the weakest semi-finalist in Euro history. Portugal managed to win once the entire tournament in 90 minutes.

I don't disagree that Argentina's run to the copa final was a laugh in 2016, but I'd take Chile over any team in the euros outside of France that portugal faced.

Croatia, Poland and Wales in 2016 aren't better than Chile.
Chile would have got knocked out by Germany. Also that tournament maybe but I general the European nations are better South America since about 2004. So like I said Euro is harder then Copa America and that much is not even a debate.
 
Do you intentionally repeat the same stuff over and over again and hope that they will be taken as gospel truth at some point of time? Portugal went 6 match unbeaten , 3 w 3 d. Has been pointed out many times but still you intentionally harp on the same point. Argentina beat Chile without Messi, then gets beaten by Chile with Messi. As per your logic, Argentina doesn't need Messi at all.

Just to clarify again, I have no problem with people acknowedging Messi as better of the two. But it is the likes of you who constantly claim that Messi is lightyears ahead of Ronaldo irk me like anything. If that was the case, it would have been 10-0 instead of 5-5

I assume you have never seen Messi play

There is nothing wrong with saying Messi is light years ahead when you see them both week in and week out and see what Messi brings to the table there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We get it, you hate Messi and it’s laughable that someone thinking Messi is a class above the rest is some insane theory but it’s true

He is light years ahead. Watch him play. He dismantled your own Chelsea team last year you should know.
 
Chile would have got knocked out by Germany. Also that tournament maybe but I general the European nations are better South America since about 2004. So like I said Euro is harder then Copa America and that much is not even a debate.

Germany won the World Cup, Portugal never had to face them, theygot an extremely easy bracket. They avoided virtually ever powerhouse in Europe until the final where they didn’t even need Ronaldo.
 
Ok let me pick it apart 1 by 1. Carvalho stopped playing for Portugal in 08. Cameback in 2015....

Next. Bosingwa was average. Paulo Ferreira gives me nightmares. Meireles one of the worst midfielders I can remember wearing the shirt. Veloso average. Simao old and declining. Nuno Gomes average. Hugo Almedia...Seriously? Postiga...Seriously? Petit average. Deco Sadly aging and was not the same as the deco in 06. Quaresma barely even came off the bench.

Do you want to continue to look at the squad onwards from 08 up until 14? because it gets much worse. Ronaldo has played with far worse players and teams in his national team and if anyone here thinks otherwise then I genuinely want some of whatever they are smoking.

Also the bit about Moutinho and Nani was a generalization. In 08 they were both still "babies" the 08 team was a decent team but nothing to write home about.

Just leave it mate. Absolutely nobody in this thread has remotely any sort of idea what they're talking about when it comes to the portuguese national team. It's insane. I don't even think they know most of the players that played for us since Ronaldo's debut.

I'd have loved to see Messi play Brazil in a World Cup with Duda and Danny either side of him rather than with two of the 300 better forwards Argentina have. What I would have done for a Benedetto... nevermind Sergio fecking Aguero.
 
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I assume you have never seen Messi play

There is nothing wrong with saying Messi is light years ahead when you see them both week in and week out and see what Messi brings to the table there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We get it, you hate Messi and it’s laughable that someone thinking Messi is a class above the rest is some insane theory but it’s true

He is light years ahead. Watch him play. He dismantled your own Chelsea team last year you should know.
:lol: You go on and on about that one Chelsea game as if Chelsea are some all-conquering side, the fact is Chelsea is currently the 5th-6th best side in the EPL that gets dismantled every so often.

Aguero & Sterling gave them a much bigger beating not so long ago.
 
Talking about the eye test and comparing this to Flat Earth - do people actually not see the curvature of the Earth with their own eyes?
 
It's fascinating how inevitable it is in internet arguments for someone to get compared to either Trump or flat earthers :lol:

Godwin's law needs an update
 
Because there is a clearer intention to create a chance, it requires more natural talent on the ball and it's better to watch.

So you believe that the overwhelming majority simply doesn't know any better?

IMO you completely dismiss the difficulty factor. Cristiano's run in the last minutes of the Juve tie would've been pointless if it wasn't for the inch perfect delivery of Kroos and vice versa. But there are fewer players that can consistently play the pass Kroos pulled off than those that can make this run. Both take vision and situational awareness, but the latter also requires exceptional technique on top of that and better decision making because the player on the ball has more options to choose from. That's why people almost intuitively consider a through pass as more important.

You like saying that stuff that looks more difficult doesn't necessarily have more impact if the outcome is the same. But if you can do things nobody else can and know how to put these tools to effective use you can also create danger from situations nobody else can. There are players able to pull off what Ronaldo does, just not on such an incredly consistent basis. But there are almost none that can do what Messi does.

If you look at Cristiano, his goals are usually goals like a striker would score them. And strikers are tge players that usually contribute the most goals. Messi's goals usually aren't typical striker goals, he scores from very atypical situations and usually very difficult ones, too. And many goals Barca score are of high technical standard since Messi set then up with a brillant through ball. You say that doesn't matter since goals are goals but I say it does because those goals would not happen if there was any other player in his position. And it's not like they don't score "typical" goals on top of that.
 
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So you believe that the overwhelming majority simply doesn't know any better?

IMO you completely dismiss the difficulty factor. Cristiano's run in the last minutes of the Juve tie would've been pointless if it wasn't for the inch perfect delivery of Kroos and vice versa. But there are fewer players that can consistently play the pass Kroos pulled off than those that can make this run. Both take vision and situational awareness, but the latter also requires exceptional technique on top of that and better decision making because the player on the ball has more options to choose from. That's why people almost intuitively consider a through pass as more important.

You like saying that stuff that looks more difficult doesn't necessarily have more impact if the outcome is the same. But if you can do things nobody else can and know how to put these tools to effective use you can also create danger from situations nobody else can. There are players able to pull off what Ronaldo does, just not on such an incredly consistent basis. But there are almost none that can do what Messi does.

If you look at Cristiano, his goals are usually goals like a striker would score them. And strikers are tge players that usually contribute the most goals. Messi's goals usually aren't typical striker goals, he scores from very atypical situations and usually very difficult ones, too. And many goals Barca score are of high technical standard since Messi set then up with a brillant through ball. You say that doesn't matter since goals are goals but I say it does because those goals would not happen if there was any other player in his position. And it's not like they don't score "typical" goals on top of that.

I agree. Talking about the impact Ronaldo has on opponents just for being there, there's no question about it. His speed and physicality contribute to his team's attacks for the simple fact that opponents will inevitably be wary of his presence. But it's the same with Messi, only to a greater degree. What you say about Messi's ability to do what no other player can is key here. How many players can pull off a defense-splitting through pass from such a distance and still make the pass perfectly weighed and accurate? Imagine the impact this has on the opponent's tactical setup, when they have to mind Messi from the half-way line onwards? If we're talking about this kind of impact, the difference these players make just for being there and forcing the opponent to set up in a way that minimizes their threat, then Messi surely impacts the game more for his superior passing. Ronaldo's impact is mostly limited to his physical presence as this derives from his strengths. Messi's impact is limited by the run being made by his team-mates, as we've witnessed he can make any pass virtually from anywhere and it will still be impeccable. In that sense, the potential for Messi's impact is greater, the ground that impact can cover is larger and thus it's actually him that poses more of a threat whatever which way you turn it.
 
So you believe that the overwhelming majority simply doesn't know any better?

IMO you completely dismiss the difficulty factor. Cristiano's run in the last minutes of the Juve tie would've been pointless if it wasn't for the inch perfect delivery of Kroos and vice versa. But there are fewer players that can consistently play the pass Kroos pulled off than those that can make this run. Both take vision and situational awareness, but the latter also requires exceptional technique on top of that and better decision making because the player on the ball has more options to choose from. That's why people almost intuitively consider a through pass as more important.

It’s tougher to hit the crossbar from the halfway line than to pass the ball accurately in short distances. Doesn’t make it more important to a game of football though does it? The difficulty of it or the amount of talent it takes isn’t really relevant.

Lots of people can head a football, next no none can do it as consistently and as effectively as Cristiano Ronaldo does. Thousands of players could have played the ball Kroos played, very few have the athleticism to jump over Alex Sandro and the awareness and heading ability to lay it off the way he did. Fellaini and Mandzukic made a career out of bullying fullbacks in the air, it’s a tremendously effective tool.

Here’s a Mandzukic and Ronaldo vídeo on it I saw a couple of days ago.



You like saying that stuff that looks more difficult doesn't necessarily have more impact if the outcome is the same. But if you can do things nobody else can and know how to put these tools to effective use you can also create danger from situations nobody else can. There are players able to pull off what Ronaldo does, just not on such an incredly consistent basis. But there are almost none that can do what Messi does.

I don’t believe that in any way makes it better, just more different and more exciting to watch. It’s like watching Djokovic and Federer play tennis, Federer is magic but there’s an art to perfecting the consistent elements of the sport too. They’ll end their careers with about the same success as eachother but Federer will have 10 times the admiration of the public.

As for the first part of that, the situations aren’t different, they’re the same situations. They just go about it to create danger in very different ways. The way Juventus and Barcelona attack couldn’t be more different.
 
I agree. Talking about the impact Ronaldo has on opponents just for being there, there's no question about it. His speed and physicality contribute to his team's attacks for the simple fact that opponents will inevitably be wary of his presence. But it's the same with Messi, only to a greater degree. What you say about Messi's ability to do what no other player can is key here. How many players can pull off a defense-splitting through pass from such a distance and still make the pass perfectly weighed and accurate? Imagine the impact this has on the opponent's tactical setup, when they have to mind Messi from the half-way line onwards? If we're talking about this kind of impact, the difference these players make just for being there and forcing the opponent to set up in a way that minimizes their threat, then Messi surely impacts the game more for his superior passing. Ronaldo's impact is mostly limited to his physical presence as this derives from his strengths. Messi's impact is limited by the run being made by his team-mates, as we've witnessed he can make any pass virtually from anywhere and it will still be impeccable. In that sense, the potential for Messi's impact is greater, the ground that impact can cover is larger and thus it's actually him that poses more of a threat whatever which way you turn it.

Difference being that Ronaldo can also create loads of danger on the ball too while Messi can’t really bully defenders in the air. Ronaldo gets the ball he’s still going to get two or three players on him at all times. He has that impact on the game too as does Messi.

Messi’s impact is mostly limited to his ability on the ball, Ronaldo’s impact is not limited in the slightest by his physical presence. He’s not Peter Crouch. While players like Crouch, Mandzukic and Fellaini have that ability as a big part of their assets, Ronaldo doesn’t.

Besides, the impact they have on their own teams is a lot more important than the impact they have on how the opposition defends them. How their strengths and weaknesses affects their own teams is a much more important discussion to have than how they impact the way the opponents defend them. It’s not easy to imagine Ronaldo playing for Barcelona and Messi playing for Juventus but it would be a very interesting experience to see how those teams would change.
 
It’s tougher to hit the crossbar from the halfway line than to pass the ball accurately in short distances. Doesn’t make it more important to a game of football though does it? The difficulty of it or the amount of talent it takes isn’t really relevant.

Lots of people can head a football, next no none can do it as consistently and as effectively as Cristiano Ronaldo does. Thousands of players could have played the ball Kroos played, very few have the athleticism to jump over Alex Sandro and the awareness and heading ability to lay it off the way he did. Fellaini and Mandzukic made a career out of bullying fullbacks in the air, it’s a tremendously effective tool.

Here’s a Mandzukic and Ronaldo vídeo on it I saw a couple of days ago.





I don’t believe that in any way makes it better, just more different and more exciting to watch. It’s like watching Djokovic and Federer play tennis, Federer is magic but there’s an art to perfecting the consistent elements of the sport too. They’ll end their careers with about the same success as eachother but Federer will have 10 times the admiration of the public.

As for the first part of that, the situations aren’t different, they’re the same situations. They just go about it to create danger in very different ways. The way Juventus and Barcelona attack couldn’t be more different.


I think you intemtionally misunderstood me. I made it very clear that it is not about difficulty in itself but about the combination of effectivity and difficulty. A crossbar shot from the half way line is not what I was talking about and you know that.

And no, those are not the same situations. Messi creates danger from situations no other player can. He sets up or scores an incredible number of goals with plays for which no other player has the required skillset. Cristiano's greatest strength is his consistency. His goals for the largest part aren't breathtaking to say the least, many players could've scored them, but not as frequently as he does. That doesn't make up for Messi bring dangerous as soon he turnsbtowards your goal IMO.
 
It’s tougher to hit the crossbar from the halfway line than to pass the ball accurately in short distances. Doesn’t make it more important to a game of football though does it? The difficulty of it or the amount of talent it takes isn’t really relevant.

Lots of people can head a football, next no none can do it as consistently and as effectively as Cristiano Ronaldo does. Thousands of players could have played the ball Kroos played, very few have the athleticism to jump over Alex Sandro and the awareness and heading ability to lay it off the way he did. Fellaini and Mandzukic made a career out of bullying fullbacks in the air, it’s a tremendously effective tool.

Here’s a Mandzukic and Ronaldo vídeo on it I saw a couple of days ago.





I don’t believe that in any way makes it better, just more different and more exciting to watch. It’s like watching Djokovic and Federer play tennis, Federer is magic but there’s an art to perfecting the consistent elements of the sport too. They’ll end their careers with about the same success as eachother but Federer will have 10 times the admiration of the public.

As for the first part of that, the situations aren’t different, they’re the same situations. They just go about it to create danger in very different ways. The way Juventus and Barcelona attack couldn’t be more different.


There's not thousands of players that can play the ball like Kroos, Bernardeschi or Bale do in some of those crosses, there's indeed a special thing about Ronaldo's aerial prowess, in modern football if you start at youth level, you could get way more players able to win headers and score like that than technical players, but there's a focus on the last ones. What makes Ronaldo weird and so specially good right now is that he can play like an old school 9 with power and height, but he's better with the ball than 99% of the players above 180cm. He shines for what you point out because it's a skill not so common now, but he's the best striker because he pairs that with being world class at everything else.

We could talk about creativity on a skill context vs creativity on a stat one, if you look at football in a logical way, to win you have to score, and to score you need to advance meters with the ball to reach the rival goal. Heading to create second plays is a way of creating chances in a "stat" way, because you need a player passing the ball to you and a second player to receive your pass, or from a cross, you need a team effort to bring the ball to hug the line, and the % of success of this play is lower than other forms of attacking, is easier to execute (as a team) but also easier to defend.


On the skill context, it would be the guy that does the long pass to Ronaldo, a reference 9 doesn't really need to read too much into the game outside the area, his job is to anchor himself in a place that everyone knows he'll do damage, but the creative player needs to free himself of marking and create his own space to launch a pass (usually by dribbling or, in Kroos way, by commanding too much respect from defenders due to his signature move), and once that space is created, choosing the right option (sometimes the 9, other times the wingers, or passing in short), and putting a good pass (that's harder than what I think you imply in your post).

What changes from a great player like Kroos, to a legendary one like Messi, or even Iniesta on his good days, is that if you need at least 6 links in your usual "chain" of actions to score (Starts on the keeper, beat the first line of pressure, link up in the middle, put speed forward to the play, create the chance and score) a player like Kroos can make his team forget about 2, 3 links at most (if he's too deep, beats the pressure, doesn't need to link up and speeds the game opening to a wing, if he was closer to the enemy area, he skips linking, puts speed with a through ball and possibly creaters a chance), Iniesta could do an extra link on Kroos from either of those two positions, but Messi can do an extra link on Iniesta too, because he can score, so, in a chain of attack, he's more creative because he can help his team in 5 out of 6 links of the game.

Ronaldo (nowadays) creates chances that also are more represented in stats because he's weighter towards those last links (score, create the last chance, accelerate the attacking play), he helps create a lot for his team, but you can't ask him to create the lion's share of chances on the team like you should do with Kane, Messi, Neymar or Mbappe.

07-12 Ronaldo? He was almost as creative as current Messi, maybe not in such a wide area of the pitch because he was relatively anchored to the wings, for that, he would surely be regarded as the best ever had it not been not only for Messi, but Messi in that Barcelona squad, without that combination he would have...

Been in the first team to repeat a UCL title (United 2009).
"Treble" season too.
Spanish domination (5 extra La Liga titles, for a total of 7 in 9)
Probably an extra UCL (2011)
 
Ok let me pick it apart 1 by 1. Carvalho stopped playing for Portugal in 08. Cameback in 2015....

Next. Bosingwa was average. Paulo Ferreira gives me nightmares. Meireles one of the worst midfielders I can remember wearing the shirt. Veloso average. Simao old and declining. Nuno Gomes average. Hugo Almedia...Seriously? Postiga...Seriously? Petit average. Deco Sadly aging and was not the same as the deco in 06. Quaresma barely even came off the bench.

Do you want to continue to look at the squad onwards from 08 up until 14? because it gets much worse. Ronaldo has played with far worse players and teams in his national team and if anyone here thinks otherwise then I genuinely want some of whatever they are smoking.

Also the bit about Moutinho and Nani was a generalization. In 08 they were both still "babies" the 08 team was a decent team but nothing to write home about.

You might need to brush up your knowledge on Portuguese footballers of yore. Ricky Carvalho did not stop playing in 2008. Infact, he played in World Cup 2010, played 3 further games in 2011, and 3 further in 2014 (also more in 2015 and beyond). This is not a place for alternative facts.
 
I assume you have never seen Messi play

There is nothing wrong with saying Messi is light years ahead when you see them both week in and week out and see what Messi brings to the table there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We get it, you hate Messi and it’s laughable that someone thinking Messi is a class above the rest is some insane theory but it’s true

He is light years ahead. Watch him play. He dismantled your own Chelsea team last year you should know.

You assume a lot of stuffs which are wrong. You might also assume that those BDo'R voters also never watched Messi play. :lol::lol:

My own Chelsea dismantled Messi (in his prime) where he as usual fecked up a penalty. But that doesn't matter though, right? He must have completed 6 successful dribbles in that match which should have put Barcelona in the final as per your own twisted logic and assumptions.

Again, I have no problem with people considering Messi to be better. But lightyears ahead? A ridiculous hyperbole invented by the Messi brigade. If that was the case, you would not have to type post after post to justify Messi's supremacy.
 
Getting fiesty in here :lol:
 
Germany won the World Cup, Portugal never had to face them, theygot an extremely easy bracket. They avoided virtually ever powerhouse in Europe until the final where they didn’t even need Ronaldo.
But Ronaldo scored 3 goals and had 3 assist in tournament including sublime header in SF against Wales. People were calling bale as better player than Ronaldo during that time.

Did you watch euro 2012 ? Ronaldo was excellent there as well. His international career has some highlights unlike Messi whose international career is joke despite playing with better players.
 
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You assume a lot of stuffs which are wrong. You might also assume that those BDo'R voters also never watched Messi play. :lol::lol:

My own Chelsea dismantled Messi (in his prime) where he as usual fecked up a penalty. But that doesn't matter though, right? He must have completed 6 successful dribbles in that match which should have put Barcelona in the final as per your own twisted logic and assumptions.

Again, I have no problem with people considering Messi to be better. But lightyears ahead? A ridiculous hyperbole invented by the Messi brigade. If that was the case, you would not have to type post after post to justify Messi's supremacy.

:lol: You’re the one saying how irked you are that a player a majority of people see as the GOAT is considered light years ahead of Ronaldo. You wouldn’t have to type post after post to justify how much it bothers you.
 
:lol: You’re the one saying how irked you are that a player a majority of people see as the GOAT is considered light years ahead of Ronaldo. You wouldn’t have to type post after post to justify how much it bothers you.

Its a fallacy and quite ironic that you claim Messi is lightyears ahead when: a) you're debating on a "vs." thread that has been raging on for almost 400 pages (even containing a poll that's evenly split at 50-50); Ronaldo and Messi are almost equal on individual honours with Ronaldo winning 4 of the last 6 BDOR's (likely should have won the most recent edition) and Ronaldo is so much superior in Europe's premier competition (the champions league).
 
Its a fallacy and quite ironic that you claim Messi is lightyears ahead when: a) you're debating on a "vs." thread that has been raging on for almost 400 pages (even containing a poll that's evenly split at 50-50); Ronaldo and Messi are almost equal on individual honours with Ronaldo winning 4 of the last 6 BDOR's (likely should have won the most recent edition) and Ronaldo is so much superior in Europe's premier competition (the champions league).

And now compare the number of players/pundits who consider Messi the goat vs Ronaldo. It leans HEAVILY towards Messi. Ronaldo has been great in CL in recent years but compare how their peers talk about path and Messi is often the one pundits/managers/coaches speak more on awe of.

This is a United forum, far more Ronaldo fans for obvious reasons. This poll had Messi dominating and then swung recently. If Messi wins the ballon d’or it would swing back in his favour but the mods closed the polls so they could keep it at 50-50
 
And now compare the number of players/pundits who consider Messi the goat vs Ronaldo. It leans HEAVILY towards Messi. Ronaldo has been great in CL in recent years but compare how their peers talk about path and Messi is often the one pundits/managers/coaches speak more on awe of.

It isn't heavily in Messi's favour at all. Plenty of players consider Ronaldo the GOAT...even some of Messi's own teammates...;)

 
It isn't heavily in Messi's favour at all. Plenty of players consider Ronaldo the GOAT...even some of Messi's own teammates...;)



Haha

Same with Ronaldo’s former teammates:

https://www.besoccer.com/new/di-maria-messi-the-greatest-ever-362795

And Rooney, who never played with Messi but did play with Ronaldo :)

https://talksport.com/football/4317...manchester-united-teammate-cristiano-ronaldo/

And Scholes:

http://www.sportbible.com/football/...s-opinion-on-ronaldo-vs-messi-debate-20181016
 
You assume a lot of stuffs which are wrong. You might also assume that those BDo'R voters also never watched Messi play. :lol::lol:

My own Chelsea dismantled Messi (in his prime) where he as usual fecked up a penalty. But that doesn't matter though, right? He must have completed 6 successful dribbles in that match which should have put Barcelona in the final as per your own twisted logic and assumptions.

Again, I have no problem with people considering Messi to be better. But lightyears ahead? A ridiculous hyperbole invented by the Messi brigade. If that was the case, you would not have to type post after post to justify Messi's supremacy.

DISMANTLED



0:47 Alexis hits the post
1:20 Fabregas misses a clear cut chance started by whom...?
2:42 Messi assists Fabregas and he bottles a whole factory of Coca Cola with his shot
4:00 Alexis buys the land next to Fabregas' factory
5:10 Another post
5:25 Another post



0:22 Messi has a chance
1:09 Another clear cut chance
2:05 Assists Iniesta's goal
2:52 Totally dismantled there
3:03 Still super dismantled creating that chance
5:56 Messi hits the post (4th post of this leg)

Is that your definition of dismantling? Or is this just another instance of "someone beat Barcelona so Messi probably played an awful game"?. Juve two seasons ago? yeah, Roma in the 2nd leg past year? that too, but Chelsea in 2012? Our forwards dismantled themselves missing chance after chance.

9 out of 10 times we go though that leg and Messi is MotM, even missing his penalty. This memory that he was awful in those games has been implanted in everyone's mind.
 


We could do this all day:)...

Plenty of neutral players: Past and Present have heralded Ronaldo as the greatest ever. It isn't heavily in Messi's favour..




P.S. DI Maria is also a teammate of Messi and actually much closer to him than he was to Ronaldo.
 
DISMANTLED



0:47 Alexis hits the post
1:20 Fabregas misses a clear cut chance started by whom...?
2:42 Messi assists Fabregas and he bottles a whole factory of Coca Cola with his shot
4:00 Alexis buys the land next to Fabregas' factory
5:10 Another post
5:25 Another post



0:22 Messi has a chance
1:09 Another clear cut chance
2:05 Assists Iniesta's goal
2:52 Totally dismantled there
3:03 Still super dismantled creating that chance
5:56 Messi hits the post (4th post of this leg)

Is that your definition of dismantling? Or is this just another instance of "someone beat Barcelona so Messi probably played an awful game"?. Juve two seasons ago? yeah, Roma in the 2nd leg past year? that too, but Chelsea in 2012? Our forwards dismantled themselves missing chance after chance.

9 out of 10 times we go though that leg and Messi is MotM, even missing his penalty. This memory that he was awful in those games has been implanted in everyone's mind.



In the first leg, Messi was directly responsible for Drogba's goal. Gave the ball away high up the pitch and just strolled as Chelsea countered.
 
In the first leg, Messi was directly responsible for Drogba's goal. Gave the ball away high up the pitch and just strolled as Chelsea countered.

No video for the penalty feck up and Pep's exasperated reaction ? Oh right, scoring penalties doesn't count. Argentinians must love that piece of fact.
 
We could do this all day:)...

Plenty of neutral players: Past and Present have heralded Ronaldo as the greatest ever. It isn't heavily in Messi's favour..




P.S. DI Maria is also a teammate of Messi and actually much closer to him than he was to Ronaldo.


I agree on di Maria, I also didn’t use any quotes on Pep or Xavi cuz those would be biased.

And you said we could do this all day. So here’s to another 400 pages my friend :p
 
You might need to brush up your knowledge on Portuguese footballers of yore. Ricky Carvalho did not stop playing in 2008. Infact, he played in World Cup 2010, played 3 further games in 2011, and 3 further in 2014 (also more in 2015 and beyond). This is not a place for alternative facts.
He had a falling out with the FA for an extensive period of time. Most of Ronaldo national team career was with Bruno Alves and Pepe as his back line. Also you are deviating from the point which is Ronaldo player with a bunch of scrubs compared to Messi in Argentina. Anyone who thinks other wise had lost their mind.
 
Germany won the World Cup, Portugal never had to face them, theygot an extremely easy bracket. They avoided virtually ever powerhouse in Europe until the final where they didn’t even need Ronaldo.

I think I can officially confirm you don’t know what the feck your talking about in terms of this debate.



I never said anything about Portugal and 16 I said that the copa America is an easier competition then the euro which is true. Also Portugal faces a good Poland team and a Croatia team that with the same squad of players destroyed Argentina in the past World Cup along with beating the best team in the world in France. Whether it was deserved or not is another story the fact is they won. Here are the facts. Ronaldo has won a major trophy for his country and Messi has not.
 
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