Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Ishdalar]

When Ronaldo had a good team around him, he won more than when Messi had the best team ever around him.

And when Ronaldo had a decent team around him, he won more than when Messi had a better than decent team around him.

Madrid deserved the 2012 Champions League much more than in 2016, that's luck playing its part and evening itself out through the years. Nothing to do with Modric or Kroos.

Missed this yesterday. So in your opinion:

Ronaldo wins more with the best teammates (by more you mean an extra UCL? and less cups/leagues?) so Ronaldo is the superior player.

Real Madrid win more with better players (Kroos, Modric, Carvajal, Casemiro, Isco, James, Bale) instead of the old guard (Xabi, Khedira, Özil, Di Maria, Arbeloa, Diarra, Albiol) but it's all down to luck.

 

[Infordin]

Real Madrid win more with better players (Kroos, Modric, Carvajal, Casemiro, Isco, James, Bale) instead of the old guard (Xabi, Khedira, Özil, Di Maria, Arbeloa, Diarra, Albiol) but it's all down to luck.

Xabi Alonso to Casemiro is a downgrade, but Real upgraded enough in other areas of the pitch to make a superior team overall.

 

[Pow]

Xabi Alonso to Casemiro is a downgrade, but Real upgraded enough in other areas of the pitch to make a superior team overall.

Casimero was vital. The creative burden taken up by modric and kroos was more than enough to replace alonso.

 

[CA_vampire]

Hungary, Iceland, Austria, Croatia, Poland, Wales and finally France where he barely plays.

It wouldn't be as hard as Ronaldo with Portugal? If Messi beats a good Brazil on a Copa America final he surpasses Portugal's trajectory in 2016 with just that final.

If...

 

[pregra]

Conveniently ignoring the fact that Messi started off in a much more dominating side, playing further up the pitch.

We also have to take into account that CRonaldo has played further up the pitch than Messi in the last 5 years, at least.

 

[pregra]

Messi was anonymous in the 3 biggest matches of his career. 2 Copa finals and a WC final. Not only that, in the group stage Argentina battered Chile without Messi!

Messi's performance in the WC final was better than 3 of CRonaldo's CL finals (Atleti x2 & Liverpool). Messi was Argentina's best player by a mile. Which he also was in both Copa América finals. But hey, he didn't score so that must mean he was crap is the common "opinion"...

 

[shamans]

Why are everyone jerking so hard on UCL wins ? Just watch both of them and see which one brings more enjoyment to your eyes

Good point but I do think winning matters too. Both are winners but I prefer Ronaldo's style and if I had to pick one for my team I'd pick Ronaldo. That's all. I just don't understand why Messi fans can't accept this. I accept if you think Messi is better, let others thing Ronaldo is better.

 

[shamans]

We also have to take into account that CRonaldo has played further up the pitch than Messi in the last 5 years, at least.

They both play in the same level of attacking roles now despite different positions. Both are forwards but not out and out strikers. Messi was almost always a forward.

 

[Infordin]

Casimero was vital. The creative burden taken up by modric and kroos was more than enough to replace alonso.

Xabi Alonso at his peak was everything Casemiro was off the ball, but significantly better on the ball.

 

[Cal?]

Don't you think this obsession you have for a certain player is becoming rather toxic?

You don’t have to read this thread if you don’t like people having different opinions to your own.

 

[Cal?]

We also have to take into account that CRonaldo has played further up the pitch than Messi in the last 5 years, at least.

Messi plays wherever he wants to for Barca

 

[KirkDuyt]

I truly think quite a few people join the caf solely for the honour to argue with Cal? In the Messi vs Ronaldo thread.

 

[Kinsella]

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi's performance in the WC final was better than 3 of CRonaldo's CL finals (Atleti x2 & Liverpool). Messi was Argentina's best player by a mile. Which he also was in both Copa América finals. But hey, he didn't score so that must mean he was crap is the common "opinion"...

Spot on. Ronaldo has been absolute crap in a majority of his CL finals. Constantly outshined by his teammates when he was an absolute non factor.

Portugal managed to go ten games in a row without a loss this past year without Ronaldo. And last time Portugal played Chile on a tournament? They lost on penalties with Ronaldo on the team.

The difference between the two is that when Ronaldo doesn’t show up how teammates actually do whereas for Messi his teammates crap the bed when he has a mediocre game.

 

[Revan]

Spot on. Ronaldo has been absolute crap in a majority of his CL finals. Constantly outshined by his teammates when he was an absolute non factor.

Portugal managed to go ten games in a row without a loss this past year without Ronaldo. And last time Portugal played Chile on a tournament? They lost on penalties with Ronaldo on the team.

The difference between the two is that when Ronaldo doesn’t show up how teammates actually do whereas for Messi his teammates crap the bed when he has a mediocre game.

Such a shame that Ronaldo plays for 70's Brazil, while Messi plays for Burkina Faso.

 

[Daysleeper]

Such a shame that Ronaldo plays for 70's Brazil, while Messi plays for Burkina Faso.

Ronaldo did have the best midfield in the world behind him during those recent years while had the best midfield behind him in the years before.

 

[SportingCP96]

All of these posts going on and on. It's simple.
Messi is the greatest player of all time
Ronaldo is the second best player of this generation.

This post makes no sense and loses all credibility for the simple reason that even if you say Messi is the goat which is your choice how the feck can you not have Ronaldo second if you just said he is the "2nd best of his generation" because How can Messi be the Goat if its not even sure he is better then Ronaldo in "his" generation. Makes no sense.

Everyone has their opinion but all I know is the moment Ronaldo won the Euro this debate ended. The moment he won a three peat. It ended. The moment he wins it with Juve whenever that is ( If it is this season then it literally shows who the GOAT is ) this debate ends. Ronaldo has a lot more credibility in his accomplished when it is all said and done he will have dominated in Three leagues. Let me say that again THREE leagues. He will have won it all with them he has delivered a trophy for a European minnow. Give me a break.

Messi is incredible and on Mount Rushmore no doubt hell you can say he is more pleasing to watch but he is not the GOAT let alone the best in his generation and Messi fans pride got hurt the moment Ronaldo caught up to Messi ( and passed him). It is funny they say his balon d or don't mean shit but if Messi wins it this year they will say " see told you he is the goat blah blah". I specifically remember especially in this forum many saying "Who ever wins something on an international level will be the better player" this sentiment was echoed even more when Argentina went to the WC final...they Lost. Ronaldo wins the Euro and surprise surprise the sentiment changes again. Then of course Messi shows true GOAT attributes by retiring and giving up on his country. Their is really no way to argue these things because they are simply fact.

All I'm sayin is if its crunch time 90th minute with added time and my fecking life is on the Line and the ball falls into the box of 1 guy there is not one player in the world I would want over Ronaldo and if you say other wise you are lying. The difference is before he even shoots that ball in his mind he scored already and he knows it. For Messi the pressure would be too much.

Nonetheless I won't get too involved in this topic because it is draining.

 

[BurtSpangle]

People who say Ronaldo always has to resort to intangibles like 'mentality'. Personally, when judging the GOAT I judge on ability. In terms of ability, between Messi and Ronaldo it's not even close. Maybe if Ronaldo was actually close in terms of ability I could understand then going in to arguments about the difference in mentality, but when there's such a big gap in ability, they can't even be compared.

 

[wub1234]

Everyone has their opinion but all I know is the moment Ronaldo won the Euro this debate ended. The moment he won a three peat. It ended. The moment he wins it with Juve whenever that is ( If it is this season then it literally shows who the GOAT is ) this debate ends. Ronaldo has a lot more credibility in his accomplished when it is all said and done he will have dominated in Three leagues. Let me say that again THREE leagues. He will have won it all with them he has delivered a trophy for a European minnow. Give me a break.

That couldn't be further from the truth. Outside of obsessive Ronaldo fans, Messi is almost universally accepted as being the better player. Quite honestly, I don't understand how anyone could watch the two of them play, and conclude that Ronaldo is a better player. Messi is just far superior technically, and contributes so much more.

What team won what trophy, and what country Ronaldo chose to play in, will not change this. Honestly, outside of obsessive Ronaldo fans, the idea that he is the greatest player of all-time is not taken remotely seriously. Whereas Messi is constantly in this debate, and will probably be widely recognised as the best by the end of career; indeed, he already is being recognised as this.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but believing that Ronaldo is better than Messi is akin to siding with flat earthers. Most of the population will just view your position with apoplexy and disbelief.

 

[Paxi]

 

[Schneckerl]

This post makes no sense and loses all credibility for the simple reason that even if you say Messi is the goat which is your choice how the feck can you not have Ronaldo second if you just said he is the "2nd best of his generation" because How can Messi be the Goat if its not even sure he is better then Ronaldo in "his" generation. Makes no sense.

Everyone has their opinion but all I know is the moment Ronaldo won the Euro this debate ended.

The moment Ronaldo stood on the sideline and Eder scored the Messi v Ronaldo debate was over.
Imagine someone seriously having this thoughtprocess.

 

[SportingCP96]

That couldn't be further from the truth. Outside of obsessive Ronaldo fans, Messi is almost universally accepted as being the better player. Quite honestly, I don't understand how anyone could watch the two of them play, and conclude that Ronaldo is a better player. Messi is just far superior technically, and contributes so much more.

What team won what trophy, and what country Ronaldo chose to play in, will not change this. Honestly, outside of obsessive Ronaldo fans, the idea that he is the greatest player of all-time is not taken remotely seriously. Whereas Messi is constantly in this debate, and will probably be widely recognised as the best by the end of career; indeed, he already is being recognised as this.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but believing that Ronaldo is better than Messi is akin to siding with flat earthers. Most of the population will just view your position with apoplexy and disbelief.

ok how can you say Messi is in the goat debate but Ronaldo is not yet the never ending debate is Messi vs Ronaldo? makes no sense. The issue is Messi fans refuse to believe there golden boy is not the best.

 

[SportingCP96]

The moment Ronaldo stood on the sideline and Eder scored the Messi v Ronaldo debate was over.
Imagine someone seriously having this thoughtprocess.

They would have not got to the final without him. So it is his fault they injured him ? ill tell you what though he did more on the sidelines in that game for his country then Messi did in the wc final and Copa America finals. Debate ended in 2016 and when he wins it with Juve ( the CL) this thread can be closed. Unless of course Messi wins a world cup.

 

[Prometheus]

The moment Ronaldo stood on the sideline and Eder scored the Messi v Ronaldo debate was over.
Imagine someone seriously having this thoughtprocess.

I can't imagine how disengenous one has to be to sum up Ronaldo's contribution to the Euro win in these terms.

 

[Pocho]

The moment Ronaldo stood on the sideline and Eder scored the Messi v Ronaldo debate was over.
Imagine someone seriously having this thoughtprocess.

 

[Pocho]

Anybody watching Cristiano against fkin Atalanta?

 

[Zehner]

People who say Ronaldo always has to resort to intangibles like 'mentality'. Personally, when judging the GOAT I judge on ability. In terms of ability, between Messi and Ronaldo it's not even close. Maybe if Ronaldo was actually close in terms of ability I could understand then going in to arguments about the difference in mentality, but when there's such a big gap in ability, they can't even be compared.

That's the point. These arguments come across like the sort of arguments you'll find in tabloids, produced by journalists who probably aren't even interested in football and only seek for superficial stories they can write about, just like all these goal stat comparisons you read while both were playing in La Liga.

I mean, not even the die-hard Ronaldosupporters deny that Messi has far superior abilities. All this is only clutching at straws in my opinion. It is okay to prefer a player out of personal reasons. I prefer Ronaldinho over Messi but I'd never suggest that the former is the better player. I believe deep down even guys like Cal? realize that Messi is simply a level above anyone else and since that they start talking about things not even remotely connected to them as footballers. Stuff like "clutch", "leader", "mentality", "titles", "Messi may be the best but he is not the greatest" and so forth. It's like putting someone like Keane ahead of Zidane because of his aggressive nature.

 

[In Rainbows]

I can't imagine how disengenous one has to be to sum up Ronaldo's contribution to the Euro win in these terms.

It's not disingenuous at all. It's a perfectly apt description of the context in which that argument is operating under.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Messi just bottled a chance for 5-1. Ronaldo's clearly better.

Ah no wait Ronaldo just lost a game. Messi it is!

 

[RooneyLegend]

This post makes no sense and loses all credibility for the simple reason that even if you say Messi is the goat which is your choice how the feck can you not have Ronaldo second if you just said he is the "2nd best of his generation" because How can Messi be the Goat if its not even sure he is better then Ronaldo in "his" generation. Makes no sense.

Everyone has their opinion but all I know is the moment Ronaldo won the Euro this debate ended. The moment he won a three peat. It ended. The moment he wins it with Juve whenever that is ( If it is this season then it literally shows who the GOAT is ) this debate ends. Ronaldo has a lot more credibility in his accomplished when it is all said and done he will have dominated in Three leagues. Let me say that again THREE leagues. He will have won it all with them he has delivered a trophy for a European minnow. Give me a break.

Messi is incredible and on Mount Rushmore no doubt hell you can say he is more pleasing to watch but he is not the GOAT let alone the best in his generation and Messi fans pride got hurt the moment Ronaldo caught up to Messi ( and passed him). It is funny they say his balon d or don't mean shit but if Messi wins it this year they will say " see told you he is the goat blah blah". I specifically remember especially in this forum many saying "Who ever wins something on an international level will be the better player" this sentiment was echoed even more when Argentina went to the WC final...they Lost. Ronaldo wins the Euro and surprise surprise the sentiment changes again. Then of course Messi shows true GOAT attributes by retiring and giving up on his country. Their is really no way to argue these things because they are simply fact.

All I'm sayin is if its crunch time 90th minute with added time and my fecking life is on the Line and the ball falls into the box of 1 guy there is not one player in the world I would want over Ronaldo and if you say other wise you are lying. The difference is before he even shoots that ball in his mind he scored already and he knows it. For Messi the pressure would be too much.

Nonetheless I won't get too involved in this topic because it is draining.

The Euros didn't decide anything cause Ronaldo wasn't even the best player at the tournament. Didn't even play the final.

People who say Ronaldo always has to resort to intangibles like 'mentality'. Personally, when judging the GOAT I judge on ability. In terms of ability, between Messi and Ronaldo it's not even close. Maybe if Ronaldo was actually close in terms of ability I could understand then going in to arguments about the difference in mentality, but when there's such a big gap in ability, they can't even be compared.

This is rubbish, football ability has never been 1 dimensional. There's a gap technically but you cant ignore Ronaldo physical prowess, movement, ambidextrousness l, heading ability.

ok how can you say Messi is in the goat debate but Ronaldo is not yet the never ending debate is Messi vs Ronaldo? makes no sense. The issue is Messi fans refuse to believe there golden boy is not the best.

What I dislike about Messi fans is they act like it's not debatable which of course it is.

 

[Tommy]

Messi just bottled a chance for 5-1. Ronaldo's clearly better.

Ah no wait Ronaldo just lost a game. Messi it is!

Confirmed

Juve have looked poor this season. They're winning while often looking terrible.

 

[Obi-Red-Kenobi]

There are always excuses for Messi. When he flops it's the team. I remember the stick Ronaldo got when Madrid were constantly being knocked out in the SF.

Messi was anonymous in the 3 biggest matches of his career. 2 Copa finals and a WC final. Not only that, in the group stage Argentina battered Chile without Messi!

Being a better technical footballer doesn't make you a better football player.

Put Ronaldo in any team he delivers. He doesn't hinder his teammates like Messi does and he doesn't need to be at the centre of everything.

If Juve win the CLi it would trump anything Messi has done in his career. Ronaldo would have delivered the CL to 3 different teams that were suffering droughts.

For people claiming that Ronaldo is just a a goalscorer, Cruyff even said he was better than George Best!

What he has shown is the willingness to adapt and not hog the ball 24/7 like Messi.

No offence, but being better than George Best doesn’t make you one of the best players ever, but I could sit here and name 20 players who achieved a lot more. He isn’t even in the top 3 of UTD’ best ever players, let alone outside of Manchester. He was a great player, but not in Ronaldos or Messis league, not even close.

Why would Juve winning the CL league trump anything Messi has ever done! Really, Juve have been in the latter stages most years recently, and are one of the favourites, whether Ronaldinho is there or not. They have won their league god knows how many times in the past few years. They are hardly a pub team.

He turned up in the whole tournament of that World Cup, finishing top scorer and player of the tournament. Losing one nil can happen, and it doesn’t mean he didn’t turn up.

Sorry, in terms of his biggest career games, did you not see any of the European Cup finals against UTD? Those were some of his biggest games, but he score in each final, both times, the winning goal.

Like many others on here, your Ronaldo love-in distorts the objective view of other fans who see the objective view. History will see Messi win more, score more and assist more, and that’s good enough for me.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Just when you thought it had gone far enough into a steaming pile of shite, someone says that George best isn’t a top 3 Man Utd player of all time.

 

[SirAF]

Just when you thought it had gone far enough into a steaming pile of shite, someone says that George best isn’t a top 3 Man Utd player of all time.

What do you expect from a scouser?

 

[Billy Blaggs]

No offence, but being better than George Best doesn’t make you one of the best players ever, but I could sit here and name 20 players who achieved a lot more. He isn’t even in the top 3 of UTD’ best ever players, let alone outside of Manchester. He was a great player, but not in Ronaldos or Messis league, not even close.

Why would Juve winning the CL league trump anything Messi has ever done! Really, Juve have been in the latter stages most years recently, and are one of the favourites, whether Ronaldinho is there or not. They have won their league god knows how many times in the past few years. They are hardly a pub team.

He turned up in the whole tournament of that World Cup, finishing top scorer and player of the tournament. Losing one nil can happen, and it doesn’t mean he didn’t turn up.

Sorry, in terms of his biggest career games, did you not see any of the European Cup finals against UTD? Those were some of his biggest games, but he score in each final, both times, the winning goal.

Like many others on here, your Ronaldo love-in distorts the objective view of other fans who see the objective view. History will see Messi win more, score more and assist more, and that’s good enough for me.

Stopped reading at this

 

[Obi-Red-Kenobi]

First of all, outside blind Messi supporters , everyone who understands a little bit of football knows that golden ball was a total farce. Messi himself knew he didn't deserve it. Top scorer by scoring a grand total of zero goals from 2nd round onwards. Harry kane is the top scorer of this world cup, do you put him on a pedestal for it and think that he should have won the golden ball?

The rest of your post explains it though. The hyperboles, the unreal hate for Ronaldo leaving UTD, that real Madrid s one season wonder was Jose's achievement. The exaggerations are so extreme that it almost provides comic relief. You are the stereotypical Messi brigade member who thinks Ronaldo is a glorified Thomas Mueller, that whenever Ronaldo achieves something, it's always the team, but Messi is a one-man show, playing with championship level players around him all through his life.

Carry on with your ridiculous agenda.

Not at any point have I said that Ronaldo is ‘a glorified Thomas Mueller’. What a weird thing to say?

I do understand football, and the fact is he created more and scored more than any other player in the tournament, and you can argue, debate and attest all you like, but the fact is he won it. This is not debatable.

In terms of Harry Kane, it’s not about me ‘thinking that he should have won the golden ball’, it’s literally the point of the excercise that the top scorer gets the award. That is what it is, and if he scored more than anyone else, he deserves it.

I think Ronaldo is a fantastic player, and one of the best ever, clearly, that cannot be denied. He is a phenomenal footballer, and will be remembered as such, and it is my opinion, that Messi offers more to the team, and will be determined by history as the better player. I said in my previous post, this is a MUFC based forum, and therefore most people on here are not objectively comparing like for like. They see Messi supporters as dogmatic, but it works the other way too.

 

[Cal?]

That's the point. These arguments come across like the sort of arguments you'll find in tabloids, produced by journalists who probably aren't even interested in football and only seek for superficial stories they can write about, just like all these goal stat comparisons you read while both were playing in La Liga.

I mean, not even the die-hard Ronaldosupporters deny that Messi has far superior abilities. All this is only clutching at straws in my opinion. It is okay to prefer a player out of personal reasons. I prefer Ronaldinho over Messi but I'd never suggest that the former is the better player. I believe deep down even guys like Cal? realize that Messi is simply a level above anyone else and since that they start talking about things not even remotely connected to them as footballers. Stuff like "clutch", "leader", "mentality", "titles", "Messi may be the best but he is not the greatest" and so forth. It's like putting someone like Keane ahead of Zidane because of his aggressive nature.

No I do not think that at all and certainly won't "realize" such an idiotic idea. There you go with the Messi brigade again, the insistence of their opinion being facts.

What I dislike about Messi fans is they act like it's not debatable which of course it is.

Well said!!

He turned up in the whole tournament of that World Cup, finishing top scorer and player of the tournament. Losing one nil can happen, and it doesn’t mean he didn’t turn up.

You are entitled to believe Messi is better, but please don't make up facts. He wasn't even 2nd topscorer in WC 2014. In fact he didn't score a single goal after the group stage and finished on 4.

 

[Schneckerl]

Just when you thought it had gone far enough into a steaming pile of shite, someone says that George best isn’t a top 3 Man Utd player of all time.

Isn't that a common opinion on here?

 

[Prometheus]

Being a better technical footballer doesn't make you a better football player.

That's something all these hipster Messi fans badly need to learn.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

That's something all these hipster Messi fans badly need to learn.

If fans on both sides could learn to eradicate words like hipster that would be better.