Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Vialli_92]

Messi is a huge part of this problem too though.
He's walking around too much without pulling them the other way and its hurting the teams shape.
He's simply not making space for himself or his teammates.

It's just not a good fit, they are totally out of ideas against a parked bus and Messi is not getting any time on the ball or able to find and pockets of space

Really not much he can do as he's faced with so many players too close to him to do anything with the ball unless he is able to come up with some sort of magic but it hasn't looked it at all

 

[CA_vampire]

And remember: Messi is younger!

 

[El Jefe]

I wonder who gets the blame this time, 2014 was Higuain, 2010 was Maradona, 2006 was also the manager (I forgot who it was).

What about 2018? The referee?

A bit childish don't you think?

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Worst thing for me is that Messi is still seen as an angel and Ronaldo is a pantomime villain.

I've said for years that Messi is a stroppy little bitch but because Barça are so dominant you don't see it often. When things aren't going his way he gets petulant, he mouths off at opposition players, he mouths off and surrounds the ref and he kicks out and does niggly little snide things. Someone should lamp him one of these days and put him in his place.

When Rakitić fouled him in the second half he kicked out and threw a wobbly and the commentators were just like 'aw, well he's gonna be frustrated isn't he? Poor thing'.

If Ronaldo reacted like that he'd be castigated and destroyed over and over again by commentators and pundits alike.

As for who's better. They're both in decline from their best but Ronaldo's drive is astonishing. Messi just can't be arsed. Night and day mentality, maybe it always was but it definitely is now.

100% this.

"Messi is a good boy"

 

[Ishdalar]

I had a feeling the narrative was gonna change based on this tournament.

Well, the team that needed Leo to score 3 goals in the last qualifying match to be here, the same ones where no player other than Messi scored in the last 6 qualifier games were hailed as "WC contenders" because they had Leo Messi, it was always about winning the tournament for glory, or failing to do so for shame, again.

 

[justboy68]

Like it or not World Cup performances are hugely influential in a player's legacy, especially for a one club player like Messi where there is no other chance to see him playing in different circumstances. As unbelievable as he is there will always be a few more asterisks compared to Ronaldo who has answered more questions over the course of his career. Playing and winning in different countries, with different teammates, as well as winning silverware internationally.

 

[Kearnkoff69]

Recency bias lol Try the fact that Cristiano Ronaldo will forever be the King of the Champions League, destroying Messi in the process, and will soon be taking him over in Ballon D'Ors.
6-5 after being 4-1 down.

If you think these conclusions being made are due to recency bias, you're not understanding the argument being made.

Damn, this is why I stay away from these debates. Fanboys are scary as hell.

I absolutely understand the arguments being made, I just think Ronaldo stans have been more vociferous about their stance in the last month or so, and especially in the last week and a half.

 

[In Rainbows]

Well that's true but just focusing on adaptability part.
Ronaldo did it with Utd, Real and Portugal. Messi? Only Barcelona with a once in a generation midfield behind him. Credit to Messi for whatever he has achieved but for me he only does well for Barca for the reasons unknown to me at the least.

How can you say Messi has only done it with Barca, yet Ronaldo in this World Cup is only doing what Messi did in the last World Cup's group stage? Messi has been fine with his national team.

Both Ronaldo and Messi have yet to deliver in the finals of a big international tournament.

 

[Cal?]

A bit childish don't you think?

Not at all, it's a very serious question. The Messi brigade have always insisted it was the mangers and team mates who have let Messi down despite his supposed brilliance in every game.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

How can you say Messi has only done it with Barca, yet Ronaldo in this World Cup is only doing what Messi did in the last World Cup's group stage? Messi has been fine with his national team.

Both Ronaldo and Messi have yet to deliver in the finals of a big international tournament.

Ronaldo helped Portugal lift the European cup.

Also, i feel for other Argentina players because their talents have been sacrificed to get the best out of Messi.

 

[DeGea]

I used to think it was close, but now I think Ronaldo has definitely edged it. He is consistent, always gives 110%, and makes even the shittest team look good.

When the sun is shining and you have Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets behind you then even Chadwick can play a good game. But can you step up when the chips are really down and drag your team over the line again and again and again and again?

I cannot see another period where Messi is going to dominate, he looks like he cannot be arsed, but I can definitely see another few years where Ronaldo is still going to be dominant.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Messi is a nothing player. Made a career out of being greedy.

 

[Kush]

Gets no merit when he puts this band in 3 consecutive international finals, gets bashed when the same band do nothing in the WC.

Gotta love this thread

When you attribute everything good his teams do to him be it Barcelona or Argentina then you have to take the negatives as well. How many Barcelona fans have told us that Messi single handedly dragged his team to a double this season? Dragged Argentina to the WC? So why is it when his performances are met with criticism some can't take it?

Also you can't be serious when you say he gets no merit considering the vast amount of threads about Messi where he's been praised by vast majority of supporters on this board.

 

[Paxi]

Worst thing for me is that Messi is still seen as an angel and Ronaldo is a pantomime villain.

I've said for years that Messi is a stroppy little bitch but because Barça are so dominant you don't see it often. When things aren't going his way he gets petulant, he mouths off at opposition players, he mouths off and surrounds the ref and he kicks out and does niggly little snide things. Someone should lamp him one of these days and put him in his place.

When Rakitić fouled him in the second half he kicked out and threw a wobbly and the commentators were just like 'aw, well he's gonna be frustrated isn't he? Poor thing'.

If Ronaldo reacted like that he'd be castigated and destroyed over and over again by commentators and pundits alike.

As for who's better. They're both in decline from their best but Ronaldo's drive is astonishing. Messi just can't be arsed. Night and day mentality, maybe it always was but it definitely is now.

Top post. It's sad to see him being portrayed as fecking Dalai lama.

 

[Summit]

Messi is a nothing player. Made a career out of being greedy.

 

[Red Stone]

And remember: Messi is younger!

Not necessarily physically. He could easily have an earlier and quicker decline than Ronaldo.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Messi goes back to Newell's to faff about in a lesser league before his retirement while Ronaldo is still scoring 30+ goals a season in Europe.

 

[Cheesy]

I used to think it was close, but now I think Ronaldo has definitely edged it. He is consistent, always gives 110%, and makes even the shittest team look good.

When the sun is shining and you have Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets behind you then even Chadwick can play a good game. But can you step up when the chips are really down and drag your team over the line again and again and again and again?

I cannot see another period where Messi is going to dominate, he looks like he cannot be arsed, but I can definitely see another few years where Ronaldo is still going to be dominant.

Ronaldo's most dominant years trophy-wise have come with one of the best midfield's in world football behind him.

 

[Ishdalar]

When you attribute everything good his teams do to him be it Barcelona or Argentina then you have to take the negatives as well. How many Barcelona fans have told us that Messi single handedly dragged his team to a double this season? Dragged Argentina to the WC? So why is it when his performances are met with criticism some can't take it?

Also you can't be serious when you say he gets no merit considering the vast amount of threads about Messi where he's been praised by vast majority of supporters on this board.

Have you read the last two pages of this thread?. I think there's plenty of "no merit" for his past performances when people say he doesn't work outside of Barcelona, managed to do nothing with Argentina or he's a "nothing player".

 

[El Jefe]

Well that's true but just focusing on adaptability part.
Ronaldo did it with Utd, Real and Portugal. Messi? Only Barcelona with a once in a generation midfield behind him. Credit to Messi for whatever he has achieved but for me he only does well for Barca for the reasons unknown to me at the least.

I don't disagree with that but something that's hugely understated is the managers Ronaldo has played under. A quick comparison shows;

Ronaldo - Sir Alex Ferguson, Mourinho, Zidane, Scolari, Ancelotti, Pellegrini, Quieroz, Fernando Santos, Bento

Messi - Guardiola, Martino, Roura, Tito, Enrique, Maradona, Valverde, Pekerman Rijkaard, Sampaoli

Messi at his consistent best came under one of the best managers in Pep. There's no doubt Ronaldo has benefitted from far superior coaching and management and you could argue this is why he's been much more adaptable than Messi.

 

[Peyroteo]

Best part about this is that I spent the whole year here arguing with people that said Messi was singlehandedly carrying Barcelona and that Ronaldo was the one that relied on service.

 

[In Rainbows]

Messi is a nothing player. Made a career out of being greedy.

jesus christ lol

 

[ManUtd1999]

Worst thing for me is that Messi is still seen as an angel and Ronaldo is a pantomime villain.

I've said for years that Messi is a stroppy little bitch but because Barça are so dominant you don't see it often. When things aren't going his way he gets petulant, he mouths off at opposition players, he mouths off and surrounds the ref and he kicks out and does niggly little snide things. Someone should lamp him one of these days and put him in his place.

When Rakitić fouled him in the second half he kicked out and threw a wobbly and the commentators were just like 'aw, well he's gonna be frustrated isn't he? Poor thing'.

If Ronaldo reacted like that he'd be castigated and destroyed over and over again by commentators and pundits alike.

As for who's better. They're both in decline from their best but Ronaldo's drive is astonishing. Messi just can't be arsed. Night and day mentality, maybe it always was but it definitely is now.

Top top post. Thank you!

 

[killerboi2]

For me, it's more shocking when Ronaldo has no impact in a game. If Messi doesn't, just one match, the system doesn't suit him, bad day etc. I just expect Ronaldo to do something.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Well Messi can go to papers and say that he will retire if Argentina get knocked out

 

[Peyroteo]

Have you read the last two pages of this thread?. I think there's plenty of "no merit" for his past performances when people say he doesn't work outside of Barcelona, managed to do nothing with Argentina or he's a "nothing player".

Obviously that's bullshit.

But saying Messi took Argentina to 3 finals in a row as a good thing is also bullshit. Those Copa America finals weren't a success, it was massive disappointment.

Brazil were crap and the hardest opponent in the competition was Chile... Argentina were big favourites.

 

[In Rainbows]

I used to think it was close, but now I think Ronaldo has definitely edged it. He is consistent, always gives 110%, and makes even the shittest team look good.

When the sun is shining and you have Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets behind you then even Chadwick can play a good game. But can you step up when the chips are really down and drag your team over the line again and again and again and again?

I cannot see another period where Messi is going to dominate, he looks like he cannot be arsed, but I can definitely see another few years where Ronaldo is still going to be dominant.

I have no idea how you can say he's consistent, but Messi isn't. Ronaldo was crap for the first half of the season, turned it up in the 2nd half of the season. The reason why you think Messi wasn't is because he had 2 underperformances in the knockout stages of the CL which saw his team get knocked out. Ronaldo had the same against Bayern, and wasn't great in the final, yet his team won. So you're literally basing this entire narrative on around 4 games this entire footballing season.

No wonder I stay out of these threads most of the time. People are just too biased.

 

[Vialli_92]

Obviously that's bullshit.

But saying Messi took Argentina to 3 finals in a row as a good thing is also bullshit. Those Copa America finals weren't a success, it was massive disappointment.

what about the world cup final? 4 major finals is quite good the only thing he didn't do was win at least 1 of them, the only one Ronaldo won and he played 10 minutes of it

 

[altodevil]

I have no idea how you can say he's consistent, but Messi isn't. Ronaldo was crap for the first half of the season, turned it up in the 2nd half of the season. The reason why you think Messi wasn't is because he had 2 underperformances in the knockout stages of the CL. Ronaldo had the same against Bayern, and wasn't great in the final, yet his team won. So you're literally basing this entire narrative on around 4 games this entire footballing season.

No wonder I stay out of these threads most of the time. People are just too biased.

I've found myself becoming a Messi fanboy, just by arguing with those on the Cristiano side.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Messi is a tidy player but away from his Barca comfort zone - a team that is built around him - he wilts.

Close thread, there's only one winner here.

 

[El Jefe]

Not at all, it's a very serious question. The Messi brigade have always insisted it was the mangers and team mates who have let Messi down despite his supposed brilliance in every game.

I don't see why it can't be accepted his team mates are poor and manager hasn't had a clue so far.

Ronaldo had a relatively shite team with Portugal in 2010 and only scored 1 goal. I for one didn't hold it against him.

It doesn't have to be seen as an excuse if your team clearly isn't good enough.

 

[DeGea]

Ronaldo's most dominant years trophy-wise have come with one of the best midfield's in world football behind him.

Surely not as good as Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets though?

 

[In Rainbows]

Messi is a tidy player but away from his Barca comfort zone - a team that is built around him - he wilts.

Close thread, there's only one winner here.

Just like Ronaldo wilted in the World Cups of 2010 and 2014. Oh, that doesn't count. You know what does count? Ronaldo in the 2 group stage games of this year's World Cup even though this year is a complete 180 of last WC's group stage where Messi was brilliant and Ronaldo wasn't.



I'm out lol

 

[altodevil]

Surely not as good as Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets though?

It's not exactly far away though is it? Besides, it's all about relative ability, Kroos and Modric are the top-2, just like Xavi and Iniesta were.

 

[Kush]

Have you read the last two pages of this thread?. I think there's plenty of "no merit" for his past performances when people say he doesn't work outside of Barcelona, managed to do nothing with Argentina or he's a "nothing player".

Last 2 pages are basically people fishing for Messi fans and few taking the piss. There have been multiple threads on this topic, if you go back to any of Messi previous performances thread you'll see he's been praised a lot on this board. Argentina don't make it the WC Finals without him, we get that but that doesn't mean we can't analyze/criticize his performances in the tournament.

It's the same with Ronaldo, he had a poor SF/Final in CL this season by his standards and you yourself have pointed that out several times in your arguments along with others. That doesn't take away with what he did prior to those matches though. Folks criticize Ronaldo when he has poor matches and they criticize when Messi has poor performances too. There's no large conspiracy where people are deliberately downplaying Messi's past achievements.

 

[Ishdalar]

Obviously that's bullshit.

But saying Messi took Argentina to 3 finals in a row as a good thing is also bullshit. Those Copa America finals weren't a success, it was massive disappointment.

The team that wouldn't qualify to the WC without him, the same ones that didn't score besides him in 6 games of the CONMEBOL qualifier?

Spoiler

Same ones that would've been off in a group without Nigeria, Bosnia and Iran but ended reaching the final?. Yeah, such bullshit, bullshit is you guys stablishing this new standard where if a player doesn't score, he's not doing anything.

 

[Cal?]

I don't see why it can't be accepted his team mates are poor and manager hasn't had a clue so far.

Ronaldo had a relatively shite team with Portugal in 2010 and only scored 1 goal. I for one didn't hold it against him.

It doesn't have to be seen as an excuse if your team clearly isn't good enough.

His team mates are sometimes poor, but apparently it was all Higuain's fault that he didn't win the World Cup, yet without Higuain, they probably didn't beat Belgium and Messi himself missed a clear cut chance against Germany in the final.

 

[breakout67]

I don't understand how you can change your mind like that. It's not like Ronaldo has suddenly become a lot better. He was awful for a lot of this past season. Has Messi declined? Yes, but hardly dramatically. You think Ronaldo now is better than Messi from a few years back?

I still have Messi as the better player.

I don't try to 'rate' players. When you try to 'rate' Messi you'll get ridiculous ideas like he can be a midfielder and deep lying playmaker because you are working with theoretical players.

I look at what they win and how instrumental they are to those trophies. After Barcelona won the treble, Messi was so far ahead of Ronaldo. He lead the attack of two treble winning teams and was unstoppable in both teams. But Ronaldo has slowly been creeping up on him. He has saved Madrid's skin so many times (ie Wolfsburg) and he had that ridiculous run in the latter stages in 2016/17.

I never thought that Ronaldo would even be in the conversation, but the past 3-4 years have changed my mind.

 

[Cheesy]

Surely not as good as Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets though?

Not quite, no, but still the best midfield in the world and one that's undoubtedly benefited him massively as he's transitioned from an all-round player to an absolute machine of a goalscorer. Especially notable in that a lot of their increased success has also coincided with the improvement of that midfield from one that was lagging behind Barca to being the best in the world.

That's not to say Messi didn't benefit from Xavi and Iniesta - obviously he did. But his general dribbling ability, close control, finishing and passing etc were all very obvious to anyone who was watching him on a semi-regular basis. Yes, he was helped by the other very good players in his team (who isn't?) but to equate his success to them and not acknowledge the improvement in Real's midfield is a bit daft.

 

[Cal?]

The team that wouldn't qualify to the WC without him, the same ones that didn't score besides him in 6 games of the CONMEBOL qualifier?

Spoiler

Same ones that would've been off in a group without Nigeria, Bosnia and Iran but ended reaching the final?. Yeah, such bullshit, bullshit is you guys stablishing this new standard where if a player doesn't score, he's not doing anything.

Funny you've left out the knockout stage, the same Higuain who supposedly cost Messi the WC was the one who got them into the SF in the first place.

 

[Peyroteo]

what about the world cup final? 4 major finals is quite good the only thing he didn't do was win at least 1 of them, the only one Ronaldo won and he played 10 minutes of it

Yeah the World Cup final was a nice achievement for Argentina to get there. The 2 Copa America finals were bad results and not a good achievement at all.

Cristiano lifting that cup is the single greatest moment in portuguese football history and I know we wouldn't have won it if we had any other player in the world in his place.