Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

  • Messi

  • Ronaldo

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VP said:
There's lot to admire in Ronaldo but why do so many so-called United fans on here love him so much?

He's a ridiculously great player but still fecked off from our club at the cusp of his peak, cheats relentlessly and is an all-round narcissist.
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Perhaps because he's a club legend who has won more for us than most players?? As for cheats relentlessly, the other guy doesn't? :lol:
adexkola said:
Ronaldo: Excellent goalscorer. Decent playmaker. Decent dribbler.

Messi: Excellent goalscorer. Excellent playmaker. Excellent dribbler.

Ronaldo's place is with Platini, Muller, Ronaldo, Xavi, and co. Messi's place is with Maradona, Cryuff, Beckenbauer and Pele.

This is based on skillset and what occurs on the pitch.
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The Messi brigade at its finest again, nothing but their view stated as incontrovertible facts. :lol:
padr81 said:
Thats just one example of many. Heres Jose: https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/st...dona-top-3-best-ever-cristiano-ronaldo-071916
Amazing how his opinion changed after he wasn't Ronaldo's manager anymore?

- Just the small few again in this group plumping for Messi too. Fair play to Ronaldo himself, his comments are honest here.

So are you really trying to explain away Ronaldo's shit early season form but saying "Madrid don't care about La Liga?". Are you serious? Do you really believe they gave Barca La Liga, it was plain to see they didn't and their front 3 (CR7 incluced) all turned into Theo Walcott of which only Ronaldo has recovered.
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Managers say all sorts of things, Jose changed his mind after falling out with Ronaldo. :eek:

I did not say Madrid don't care about La Liga (please stop inventing things I "say"), I said they prioritize the CL.

padr81 said:
You can't but they can. Like I was trying to explain to Vancouver... one persons opinion is very different than anothers.
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Well, yes, that's the whole point of forums.
 
Ronaldo might have had a better career by the time each of them retires, depending on what floats your boat. But the better player? Come off it. He's absolutely phenomenal, don't get me wrong. One of a very, very select few - but Messi is one of a kind.

This whole debate has been too Americanised for my liking. All this emphasis on stats, 'three-peat' etc. Of course, trophies are a part of any great player's legacy, but they are won by a team. That both are such outstandingly fine players dictates that they were always going to spend their careers playing for some of the best club sides in the world, and with many of the greatest players. Trophies were always going to flow. If you obsess over stats on paper, then sure, you can call Ronaldo the best.

But football ain't played on paper. It's played on the pitch, and I don't know how anyone who actually watches football and appreciates its intricacies can say that Ronaldo is the better player. He's wonderful, but nowhere near as complete as Messi, and hasn't made jaws drop as consistently as Messi either.

Ronaldo is what's 'in' right now, but some of these comments are embarrassing. Messi 'bottled it' last night? Seems this is the case whenever he fails to single-handedly won the match, or when he doesn't inspire Barcelona's ropey defenders to produce a ten-out-of-ten performance. Or 'Ronaldo has won an international trophy, so he's not a choker, whereas Messi fluffs his lines on the international stage'. Ronaldo was hardly I'm stellar form at Euro 2016 - certainly not as impressive overall Messi was at the World Cup 2014, though I'll concede he probably didn't deserve that Player of the Tournament gong - and played almost no part in the final. If Higuain hadn't ballsed up his one-on-one against Neuer or failed to hold his line for the offside goal in the 2014 final - neither of which Messi can be blamed for - then Messi could easily have been the 'clutch' International player, with Ronaldo the so-called 'bottler.'

Suspect this post will fall on deaf cyber-ears as it doesn't pass itself off as 'fact!' or needlessly denigrate either man enough. Nor does it focus on the last year above all else, pretending that all else before never happened. But when discussing who the greatest player is, I'd like to see a bit more emphasis on the actual playing side. And for me, Messi takes that accolade, all day and every day.
 
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Cal? said:
Perhaps because he's a club legend who has won more for us than most players?? As for cheats relentlessly, the other guy doesn't? :lol:

The Messi brigade at its finest again, nothing but their view stated as incontrovertible facts. :lol:

Managers say all sorts of things, Jose changed his mind after falling out with Ronaldo. :eek:

I did not say Madrid don't care about La Liga (please stop inventing things I "say"), I said they prioritize the CL.


Well, yes, that's the whole point of forums.
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So then they do care about it and Ronaldo shit the bed early in the season and cost them a chance at it right? Just admit it, it will make you feel good buddy.

Tell me this you ask 100 ex-pro's whose better, how do see them voting? I say at least 60-40 in favor of Messi and thats being kind to CR. Also maybe just maybe Jose is being honest now because he's not Ronaldo's manager anymore.
 
padr81 said:
So then they do care about it and Ronaldo shit the bed early in the season and cost them a chance at it right? Just admit it, it will make you feel good buddy.
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Messi shit the bed in the CL again and again. :smirk:

The last time Messi scored in the CL QF, he was leading 4-1 in Ballon D'or.
 
Cal? said:
Messi shit the bed in the CL again and again. :smirk:

The last time Messi scored in the CL QF, he was leading 4-1 in Ballon D'or.
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Thats not what I asked buddy, I've already said in this thread that Messi shit the bed in the CL. I don't love Messi nor do I hate Ronaldo.

So again and don't avoid the question my Ronaldo loving friend.

"Was Cristiano Ronaldo so shit in the early part of La Liga this season that he allowed Messi to win the title by December?" - No whataboutery buddy, simple question, yes or no.
Bonus question "What has Ronaldo achieved thus far this season, because until they actually win the CL, its the grand total of feck all as far as I can see".
 
It's clear that the most important player in the Madrid team is Ramos, by far, then the ref
 
VP said:
There's lot to admire in Ronaldo but why do so many so-called United fans on here love him so much?

He's a ridiculously great player but still fecked off from our club at the cusp of his peak, cheats relentlessly and is an all-round narcissist.
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@Bojan11 sums it up nicely. Only thing I have to add is that after a player reached such heights and has his heart set on a childhood club you have a couple angles to take as a United fan:

- be grateful he chose United and contunes to love the time he had at the club especially when Madrid fans turn sour as often as they do

- hold a grudge against a player that was instrumental during one of the clubs most successful periods.

The latter is displaced anger from United desperately missing a player of his calibre since the day he left. I mean, does your blood boil thinking about Hughes going to Barcelona or Dennis Law at City?
 
When taking the penalty against Juvetus yesterday, Ronaldo must've been under immense pressure.
If he scores, his team go through with the last kick of the ball. If he misses, and Juve end up winning, it'll be his "fault".
Most players would've buckled under that sort of pressure. Not Ronaldo.
Incredible mental strength.
 
Wishbone Ash said:
Ronaldo might have had a better career by the time each of them retires, depending on what floats your boat. But the better player? Come off it. He's absolutely phenomenal, don't get me wrong. One of a very, very select few - but Messi is one of a kind.

This whole debate has been too Americanised for my liking. All this emphasis on stats, 'three-peat' etc. Of course, trophies are a part of any great player's legacy, but they are won by a team. That both are such outstandingly fine players dictates that they were always going to spend their careers playing for some of the best club sides in the world, and with many of the greatest players. Trophies were always going to flow. If you obsess over stats on paper, then sure, you can call Ronaldo the best.

But football ain't played on paper. It's played on the pitch, and I don't know how anyone who actually watches football and appreciates its intricacies can say that Ronaldo is the better player. He's wonderful, but nowhere near as complete as Messi, and hasn't made jaws drop as consistently as Messi either.

Ronaldo is what's 'in' right now, but some of these comments are embarrassing. Messi 'bottled it' last night? Seems this is the case whenever he fails to single-handedly won the match, or when he doesn't inspire Barcelona's ropey defenders to produce a ten-out-of-ten performance. Or 'Ronaldo has won an international trophy, so he's not a choker, whereas Messi fluffs his lines on the international stage'. Ronaldo was hardly I'm stellar form at Euro 2016 - certainly not as impressive overall Messi was at the World Cup 2014, though I'll concede he probably didn't deserve that Player of the Tournament gong - and played almost no part in the final. If Higuain hadn't ballsed up his one-on-one against Neuer or failed to hold his line for the offside goal in the 2014 final - neither of which Messi can be blamed for - then Messi could easily have been the 'clutch' International player, with Ronaldo the so-called 'bottler.'

Suspect this post will fall on deaf cyber-ears as it doesn't pass itself off as 'fact!' or needlessly denigrate either man enough. Nor does it focus on the last year above all else, pretending that all else before never happened. But when discussing who the greatest player is, I'd like to see a bit more emphasis on the actual playing side. And for me, Messi takes that accolade, all day and every day.
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Brillant post.
 
sunama said:
When taking the penalty against Juvetus yesterday, Ronaldo must've been under immense pressure.
If he scores, his team go through with the last kick of the ball. If he misses, and Juve end up winning, it'll be his "fault".
Most players would've buckled under that sort of pressure. Not Ronaldo.
Incredible mental strength.
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I think it was more like a freeroll, so not very much pressure. If he scores he can be the hero, if he doesn't score, Real will be one player more for 30 Minutes and pretty sure still win. Pressure would be if he missed they go out.
 
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KirkDuyt said:
So I voted for Messi in this poll, but to be perfectly honest. I think I would change that vote now when given the chance. It might be recency bias, but when the dust settles a career is defined by a few key moments. We remember Maradona for his dribble against England. However, if that last defender had dispossessed him, I wonder if we would've ever seen that, still magnificent, dribble. He would still be that great player, but slightly less great. Arjen Robben has had a fantastic career and won many prices, but he could've been the biggest hero in our country's history if his effort in 2010 was 5 centimeters higher and went over Casillas' foot. It's these tiny moments that define you and in this regard, over the past few years, it's these moments that Ronaldo has capitalized on.

I still think that Messi is inherently a more talented football player who can do more with a ball, but who cares. Ronaldo wasn't amazing yesterday, but when the time came to step up, he smashed that penalty in the top corner. Messi on the other hand, had a chance, be it not a great chance, to get the deciding goal, but failed. All his natural talent didn't count for anything there. The next part might be kneejerk, but as Cal? said a few days ago, I can see Ronaldo retiring after Messi. He just has this ridiculous inner fire, this drive to succeed. Somewhere near the end of the match yesterday Ronaldo nicked the ball of a Juve player with a tackle for it to go out of touch and he looked to the crowd with his arms raised and screamed. He was never gonna fecking lose that match, it was simply inevitable that he'd decide the tie (I actually said this in this thread :p).

TL;DR?

I would vote for Ronaldo, when asked again.

And for what it's worth, I dislike Ronaldo very much and think he's a narcistic wanker, but golly, he just deserves the nod at the moment.
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Well said and I agree - Ronaldo’s legacy is definitely more impressive and positive than Messi’s unless something changes drastically.


As for the vote, you can always change it ;)
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Well said and I agree - Ronaldo’s legacy is definitely more impressive and positive than Messi’s unless something changes drastically.


As for the vote, you can always change it ;)
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Well as it stands I voted for Definitely not Messi, so I guess that's that :p
 
Frasbul said:
Put Messi in West Brom's team and they finish top 8 at least.
Put Ronaldo in West Brom's team and they still probably relegate.
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Put Messi on #1 ranked Argentina and he fails to score a single goal in the knockout stage of the World Cup & chokes in the Copa del Rey multiple times.

Put Ronaldo on Portugal and he carries them to the Euro Finals on route to them winning it all.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
Put Messi on #1 ranked Argentina and he fails to score a single goal in the knockout stage of the World Cup & chokes in the Copa del Rey multiple times.

Put Ronaldo on Portugal and he carries them to the Euro Finals on route to them winning it all.
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Because Ronaldo is a goalscorer as Muller and Messi is a play maker that scores.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Cruijff is lauded in no small part for his amazing dribbling skills. Ofcourse people talk about the goals, but that doesnt mean dribbling isnt important. You can creat chances by dribbling, especially so, because it creates an extra man. Cruijff is famous for the Cruijff turn, which is a dribbling skill, one of his great moments was creating a penalty chance inthe 74 world cup final by driblling into the box after picking the ball up from his own half. Players that can beat a man are hugely sought after, because it’s a skill that’s both rare and extremely useful.

Apart from that football is a spectator sport, we want to be entertained, good dribblers are entertaining.

Ronaldo is doing better than Messi, and that’s awesome. No need to say silly stuff like who needs dribbling to defend his honor. If anything that’s just more fuel for the “but the fans of the other arebiased fanbois” war. And everytime someone says the word fanboi an innocent puppy dies.
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Not really. Ronaldo was an exceptional dribbler till about 2 years ago. Right now he maybe worse off but who isn’t going to be at that age? I’m sure everyone of the best players that you mentioned had a significant dip in their dribbling once they reached 32 (Ronaldo’s age). What many of the them failed is in adapting the gameplay in such a way that they still remain vital to a big club. This is why you had Ronaldinho having to leave barca and later Milan. 2-3 years ago, Ronaldo was more of a dribbler and had better tricks than Messi did. I don’t remember it being seen as a pro for Ronaldo at the time. Which is why I say his dribbling or lack of it now cannot be seen as a negative.
 
padr81 said:
Thats not what I asked buddy, I've already said in this thread that Messi shit the bed in the CL. I don't love Messi nor do I hate Ronaldo.

So again and don't avoid the question my Ronaldo loving friend.

"Was Cristiano Ronaldo so shit in the early part of La Liga this season that he allowed Messi to win the title by December?" - No whataboutery buddy, simple question, yes or no.
Bonus question "What has Ronaldo achieved thus far this season, because until they actually win the CL, its the grand total of feck all as far as I can see".
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Yes, Messi only gets to win things when Ronaldo is in bad form nowadays.

Breaking all kind of CL scoring records.
 
Pocho said:
Ronaldo will be remembered as a great great goalscorer, as Gerd Muller. Messi as the Goat with Maradona and Pele.
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Pocho said:
Messi is as good as a goaslscorer as CR but he is so much better as a player that this thread is almost absurd.
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Pocho said:
Very clear, Messi doesn´t have a good team that he can rely on.
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Pocho said:
It's clear that the most important player in the Madrid team is Ramos, by far, then the ref
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Pocho said:
Because Ronaldo is a goalscorer as Muller and Messi is a play maker that scores.
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Honest question, don't you get tired of posting these unintelligent one-liners the sole purpose of which is to troll and wum? Must need extraordinary perseverance to keep on posting in this line when most are trying to have a meaningful debate. Notice how almost 95% of the posters, from both the sides, do not reply to you
 
Cal? said:
Yes, Messi only gets to win things when Ronaldo is in bad form nowadays.
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Messi is rarely off form though. Which has to be counted in his favour ahead of Ronaldo. He doesn’t score in 2 CL games, doesn’t make him poor or off form.

Imagine Messi scoring only 2 league goals by November.
 
Wishbone Ash said:
Ronaldo might have had a better career by the time each of them retires, depending on what floats your boat. But the better player? Come off it. He's absolutely phenomenal, don't get me wrong. One of a very, very select few - but Messi is one of a kind.

This whole debate has been too Americanised for my liking. All this emphasis on stats, 'three-peat' etc. Of course, trophies are a part of any great player's legacy, but they are won by a team. That both are such outstandingly fine players dictates that they were always going to spend their careers playing for some of the best club sides in the world, and with many of the greatest players. Trophies were always going to flow. If you obsess over stats on paper, then sure, you can call Ronaldo the best.

But football ain't played on paper. It's played on the pitch, and I don't know how anyone who actually watches football and appreciates its intricacies can say that Ronaldo is the better player. He's wonderful, but nowhere near as complete as Messi, and hasn't made jaws drop as consistently as Messi either.

Ronaldo is what's 'in' right now, but some of these comments are embarrassing. Messi 'bottled it' last night? Seems this is the case whenever he fails to single-handedly won the match, or when he doesn't inspire Barcelona's ropey defenders to produce a ten-out-of-ten performance. Or 'Ronaldo has won an international trophy, so he's not a choker, whereas Messi fluffs his lines on the international stage'. Ronaldo was hardly I'm stellar form at Euro 2016 - certainly not as impressive overall Messi was at the World Cup 2014, though I'll concede he probably didn't deserve that Player of the Tournament gong - and played almost no part in the final. If Higuain hadn't ballsed up his one-on-one against Neuer or failed to hold his line for the offside goal in the 2014 final - neither of which Messi can be blamed for - then Messi could easily have been the 'clutch' International player, with Ronaldo the so-called 'bottler.'

Suspect this post will fall on deaf cyber-ears as it doesn't pass itself off as 'fact!' or needlessly denigrate either man enough. Nor does it focus on the last year above all else, pretending that all else before never happened. But when discussing who the greatest player is, I'd like to see a bit more emphasis on the actual playing side. And for me, Messi takes that accolade, all day and every day.
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Complete? I can understand why some people think Messi is better at passing, dribbling, but more complete? That's as far from the truth as you can get when comparing with Ronaldo. Messi is amazingly good at certain things, but awful in others; whereas with Ronaldo, he doesn't have any obvious weakness, there's he's by far the more "complete" player of the two.

Messi bottled Tue night, one of the key factors for which is he had an easy chance and fluffed the shot.

Blaming Higuain? IF he hadn't scored against Belgium, Argentina probably wouldn't have made the final.

I'd like to see a bit more emphasis on the actual WINNING. And for me, Ronaldo takes that accolade, all day and every day.
 
prath92 said:
Not really. Ronaldo was an exceptional dribbler till about 2 years ago. Right now he maybe worse off but who isn’t going to be at that age? I’m sure everyone of the best players that you mentioned had a significant dip in their dribbling once they reached 32 (Ronaldo’s age). What many of the them failed is in adapting the gameplay in such a way that they still remain vital to a big club. This is why you had Ronaldinho having to leave barca and later Milan. 2-3 years ago, Ronaldo was more of a dribbler and had better tricks than Messi did. I don’t remember it being seen as a pro for Ronaldo at the time. Which is why I say his dribbling or lack of it now cannot be seen as a negative.
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Ronaldo was never an exceptional dribbler. Doing a lot of step overs don't make someone a good dribbler. He used to attempt to beat his man more often, but rightly eliminated that part of his game, because he wasnt as effective that way. I'm not saying he's a bad dribbler ofcourse, he's still very good, but never world class at that part of his game. As for age, I doubt that has anything to do with dribbling skill. I'm quite sure even now, Maradona is still a great dribbler, albeit an old and fat one.
 
padr81 said:
Thats not what I asked buddy, I've already said in this thread that Messi shit the bed in the CL. I don't love Messi nor do I hate Ronaldo.

So again and don't avoid the question my Ronaldo loving friend.

"Was Cristiano Ronaldo so shit in the early part of La Liga this season that he allowed Messi to win the title by December?" - No whataboutery buddy, simple question, yes or no.
Bonus question "What has Ronaldo achieved thus far this season, because until they actually win the CL, its the grand total of feck all as far as I can see".
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Yes he was poor to begin the year so what. Is that the end of the world? No, because as aforementioned, Madrid have made it clear over the years they prioritize the CL over everything else.

“What has Messi achieved thus far this season, because until they actually win La Liga, it’s the grand total of feck all as far as I can see”.



...and like I’ve previously said, doesn’t that show how much Ronaldo has picked it up and Messi has stalled that even after such a horrendous start to the year he still has more goals than Messi? And again, just hysterical Barca/Messi fanbois are trying to argue success in the league vs mid table clubs should be held to a higher standard than Ronaldo scoring round after round whilst carrying Madrid at a historic pace/level never before seen in the CL vs the top European clubs in the world. This really is the twilight zone considering this is what the fanbois are grasping on to as an argument - at least in their eyes :wenger:
 
Cal? said:
Complete? I can understand why some people think Messi is better at passing, dribbling

Messi bottled Tue night, one of the key factors for which is he had an easy chance and fluffed the shot.

Blaming Higuain? IF he hadn't scored against Belgium, Argentina probably wouldn't have made the final.
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Your argument here is poor.

You are not actually saying that you think Ronaldo is a better passer and dribbler than Messi are you? “Some people think”? He is miles ahead of Ronaldo in both them categories. It isn’t about thinking.

Messi bottled Tuesday night? But Ronaldo was 30 seconds away from the same fate. He scored a penalty, people are making out like that was the hardest thing in the world to do.

If Barca had a penalty then Messi most likely would have scored. Someone else takes the penalty for Madrid and they most likely would have scored.

If Eder didn’t score in the final then Ronaldo probably wouldn’t have an international trophy. It is the same as what you are saying about Higuain.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Ronaldo was never an exceptional dribbler. Doing a lot of step overs don't make someone a good dribbler. He used to attempt to beat his man more often, but rightly eliminated that part of his game, because he wasnt as effective that way. I'm not saying he's a bad dribbler ofcourse, he's still very good, but never world class at that part of his game. As for age, I doubt that has anything to do with dribbling skill. I'm quite sure even now, Maradona is still a great dribbler, albeit an old and fat one.
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I don’t know. One could argue Pele wasn’t as great dribbler as Maradona, but still regarded by many as the greater player (or equal at the very least). Di Stefano wasn’t as great dribbler as Cruyff, but most would put them at least in same tier, or even higher.

Thing is, comparing younger Ronaldo at his very peak (dribbling peak), I don’t really see Pele or Di Stefano were necessarily better dribbler than that Ronaldo.
 
VancouverUtdFan said:
No, because as aforementioned, Madrid have made it clear over the years they prioritize the CL over everything else.

“What has Messi achieved thus far this season, because until they actually win La Liga, it’s the grand total of feck all as far as I can see”.
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Wow you really are clutching at straws here.

Zidane said not long ago that winning the league is always the aim.

Barca are 11 points clear with 7 games left, no way do they lose the title now. You know fine well the league has been won.
 
RedRonaldo said:
I don’t know. One could argue Pele wasn’t as great dribbler as Maradona, but still regarded by many as the greater player (or equal at the very least). Di Stefano wasn’t as great dribbler as Cruyff, but most would put them at least in same tier, or even higher.

Thing is, comparing younger Ronaldo at his very peak (dribbling peak), I don’t really see Pele or Di Stefano were necessarily better dribbler than that Ronaldo.
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I agree, I'm not saying that a better dribbler is always a better footballer, just that Ronaldo was never a fantastic dribbler.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Your argument here is poor.

You are not actually saying that you think Ronaldo is a better passer and dribbler than Messi are you? “Some people think”? He is miles ahead of Ronaldo in both them categories. It isn’t about thinking.

Messi bottled Tuesday night? But Ronaldo was 30 seconds away from the same fate. He scored a penalty, people are making out like that was the hardest thing in the world to do.

If Barca had a penalty then Messi most likely would have scored. Someone else takes the penalty for Madrid and they most likely would have scored.

If Eder didn’t score in the final then Ronaldo probably wouldn’t have an international trophy. It is the same as what you are saying about Higuain.
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Was this chance actually harder than a penalty?



Without Higuain, Messi might not even have made the WC SF, never mind the Final.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Wow you really are clutching at straws here.

Zidane said not long ago that winning the league is always the aim.

Barca are 11 points clear with 7 games left, no way do they lose the title now. You know fine well the league has been won.
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Don't distort his quote!

Zidane said: “Winning the league makes me more excited"
 
Cal? said:
Messi has not scored a single CL QF goal since 2013, rarely off form? :lol:
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Barca won the CL in 2015. Messi was the best player in the final. Just becaue he didn’t score doesn’t mean he was poor.

Ronaldo scored about 5 league goals before Christmas. Messi has never done that in his entire career. A few games not scoring per season in a tournament is not off form. Not scoring many for a few months which Ron did is off form.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Wow you really are clutching at straws here.

Zidane said not long ago that winning the league is always the aim.

Barca are 11 points clear with 7 games left, no way do they lose the title now. You know fine well the league has been won.
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I bet it always is an aim of theirs, just not their top priority. Kings of Europe > Local champion.

What’s the problem? I’m merely using your own words and applying it to Messi as well “because until he actually wins the league”, he’s won feck all just as Ronaldo.

And like how you didn’t bother with that last bit and just cut it out :nervous:
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
Barca won the CL in 2015. Messi was the best player in the final. Just becaue he didn’t score doesn’t mean he was poor.

Ronaldo scored about 5 league goals before Christmas. Messi has never done that in his entire career. A few games not scoring per season in a tournament is not off form. Not scoring many for a few months which Ron did is off form.
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Did I say he was poor in the CL final 2015? :confused:
 
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