Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

Messi or Ronaldo

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  • Ronaldo

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Raees said:
I don't. Depends on the footballer and what he says. I am not a Messi fan, I am a fan of the game and Ronaldo was one of my idols growing up. I loved him more than Messi.. to the point where I have a united top from 08 and a real top with the 7 on it. He is also a United legend, the team I adore.

The style of play I prefer is Ronaldo.. I love players whopperform tricks and have variety to their game rather than a one footed boring dribbler... but even despite all these preferences and possible bias on my part, I can hands down say it is not even a fair competition.

Messi is just a different class, he has a touch of artistry to his game which is unbeatable. He has a finesse that only the likes of Zidane have yet he combines that with great explosive ability. . Hence why he gets so many goals, kind of like Puskas in that sense..

Ideally I'd wish he had more tricks in his locker and he was more entertaining like a young Ronaldo, but he is a footballing god that cannot be denied. On form he is simply something else... he makes Ronaldo look functional.

When I was younger I never thought Ronaldo would be described in that way, he seemed graceful and full of daring and panache.. he looked very hard to stop when he ran with the ball, only Cole at his peak could keep him quiet.. he gave Maldini and co a great game. But peak Ronaldo hasn't blossomed into a beautiful footballer. . He's a killer which is fine but he is competing with a assassin who isn't just more deadly but kills teams with the sheer beauty of hia football, dictating the game as well as winning them
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Such a great post, shame that most who frequent this thread aren't interested in quality posts regarding this issue.
 
Cal? said:
You've failed spectacularly to wind me up and just made yourself look rather idiotic in the process, not so long ago, you'd have said I'm the only one in Ronaldo's corner, now it's quite apparent that there are a few who do not share your view.

The dream world refers to your comment:

You're entitled to believe whatever you like, you can start a religion in the name of Messi and claim he'll solve global warming for all I care.


That's the problem with you Messi fans, you talk about him having a better touch, better close control and I'm happy to accept those points. Yet when it comes to Ronaldo, you (pl.) will try to argue over the most ridiculous points, someone tried to argue when I said that Ronaldo is much better at heading, do you honestly think that's even debatable?

The problem is that whatever point I make about Ronaldo and you lot will try to belittle his accomplishments.

Apparently he won 3 Balon D'ors because Messi was injured for a short period each of those years.
Apparently a record breaking haul in the CL last season means feck all because of a poor final, yet 4 group stage goals and sweet feckall in the knockout stage fully justifies Messi being player of the WC.
Apparently he choked the penalty in the CL against Barca in a tie United won anyway, yet Messi's miss against Chelsea that knocked them out is just glossed over.

Again, your use of the words "fact", "reality", etc is convincing no one. You claim not to be biased yet refuse to acknowledge there are things that Ronaldo is well ahead of Messi in, some people value those attributes higher than dribbling; in the same way that some people prefer Real's direct counter attacking game to Barca's tiki taka.

@Marcosdeto , do your thing.
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I think you have me confused with someone else Cal, I don't refuse to acknowledge the areas of Ronaldo's game that is superior to Messi's - never have and never will.

Funnily enough I don't do that because I don't want to come across like you.
 
cesc's_mullet said:
I think you have me confused with someone else Cal, I don't refuse to acknowledge the areas of Ronaldo's game that is superior to Messi's - never have and never will.

Funnily enough I don't do that because I don't want to come across like you.
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Maybe you pretend not to, you just make points like heading and pace doesn't matter compared to dribbling or something along those lines.
 
Raees said:
I don't. Depends on the footballer and what he says. I am not a Messi fan, I am a fan of the game and Ronaldo was one of my idols growing up. I loved him more than Messi.. to the point where I have a united top from 08 and a real top with the 7 on it. He is also a United legend, the team I adore.

The style of play I prefer is Ronaldo.. I love players whopperform tricks and have variety to their game rather than a one footed boring dribbler... but even despite all these preferences and possible bias on my part, I can hands down say it is not even a fair competition.

Messi is just a different class, he has a touch of artistry to his game which is unbeatable. He has a finesse that only the likes of Zidane have yet he combines that with great explosive ability. . Hence why he gets so many goals, kind of like Puskas in that sense..

Ideally I'd wish he had more tricks in his locker and he was more entertaining like a young Ronaldo, but he is a footballing god that cannot be denied. On form he is simply something else... he makes Ronaldo look functional.

When I was younger I never thought Ronaldo would be described in that way, he seemed graceful and full of daring and panache.. he looked very hard to stop when he ran with the ball, only Cole at his peak could keep him quiet.. he gave Maldini and co a great game. But peak Ronaldo hasn't blossomed into a beautiful footballer. . He's a killer which is fine but he is competing with a assassin who isn't just more deadly but kills teams with the sheer beauty of hia football, dictating the game as well as winning them
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Wonderful post..
 
Pretend to be unbiased, call Messi 'different class' or words to that effect, have the Messi fans appreciate your post.
 
I was a typical United fan in '09, convinced before the final that Messi can be stopped with double marking like Chelsea while if Ronaldo's long shots were blocked he'd scroe a header or if crosses were blocked he'd score from a through ball. I blocked out the final and continued to believe Ronaldo had more variety to his game, and his 1st season at Madrid he actually showed that ( a lot of solo goals, great passing, mixed with the usual tap-ins and clinical finishes)
Then I saw a couple of Barca games in full, properly. That was it. Messi is a god. The gifs that are produced after every single Messi game in his thread would be yearly highlights for most other players. And he's past his peak.
 
It's not pretending Cal. Most of us here are united fans. Ronaldo played for us and helped us win trophies and to this day speaks well of United and Fergie. I'd argue that if it was really close most United fans would prefer Ronaldo.
 
Cal? said:
Pretend to be unbiased, call Messi 'different class' or words to that effect, have the Messi fans appreciate your post.
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No one's pretending. Certainly not Raees, it was an excellent post.

Many posters have posted similarly detailed and coherent posts about why they prefer Messi and/or think he's better. Ive yet to see one from you (if you already have, then a link would be appreciated) other than constant bickerings about minor points. So why do you think Ronaldo is better than Messi?
 
Cal? said:
Maybe you pretend not to, you just make points like heading and pace doesn't matter compared to dribbling or something along those lines.
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:lol:

Pretend not to do what exactly? Regardless, I haven't said that either, especially regarding pace - I love watching explosive players the most.
 
Joga Bonito said:
No one's pretending. Certainly not Raees, it was an excellent post.

Many posters have posted similarly detailed and coherent posts about why they prefer Messi and/or think he's better. Ive yet to see one from you (if you already have, then a link would be appreciated) other than constant bickerings about minor points. So why do you think Ronaldo is better than Messi?
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Good post.
 
Desert Eagle said:
It's not pretending Cal. Most of us here are united fans. Ronaldo played for us and helped us win trophies and to this day speaks well of United and Fergie. I'd argue that if it was really close most United fans would prefer Ronaldo.
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Yet some how the rest of the football world thinks it's much closer than some of you suggest...

Joga Bonito said:
No one's pretending. Certainly not Raees, it was an excellent post.

Many posters have posted similarly detailed and coherent posts about why they prefer Messi and/or think he's better. Ive yet to see one from you (if you already have, then a link would be appreciated) other than constant bickerings about minor points. So why do you think Ronaldo is better than Messi?
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I've already said it many times, Ronaldo is capable of doing many things that Messi isn't even capable of and I value those attributes higher than dribbling. I prefer a direct style of football and don't like tiki taka.
 
Cal? said:
I prefer a direct style of football and don't like tiki taka.
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[Not the latest data, till January, but if anything this will even be better in Feb].

Messi's percentage of forward passes this season is 56%, Ronaldo 43%. Number of accurate long balls this season from Messi is 63, Ronaldo's 16. I won't even go to the number of attempted dribbles for them. So please explain what makes Ronaldo a more direct player? He even has less number of goals from outside the box. I am struggling to think what factors make Ronaldo a more direct player.
 
CLARiiON said:
[Not the latest data, till January, but if anything this will even be better in Feb].

Messi's percentage of forward passes this season is 56%, Ronaldo 43%. Number of accurate long balls this season from Messi is 63, Ronaldo's 16. I won't even go to the number of attempted dribbles for them. So please explain what makes Ronaldo a more direct player? He even has less number of goals from outside the box. I am struggling to think what factors make Ronaldo a more direct player.
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He's not. It's become something of a long-standing assumption that Ronaldo is more direct than Messi.

You rightfully point out (with stats) that Messi is not only more direct in his game, but more influential in multiple areas of the field.
 
You only have to watch the two right now and look at their attitudes to see who is on top at this moment. I think when we look back at this period of footballer Messi is going to have the greater legacy.
 
Was going to post that long shot stat but decided it wasn't worth the effort.

Crazy difference though.
 
Cal? said:
Yet some how the rest of the football world thinks it's much closer than some of you suggest...


I've already said it many times, Ronaldo is capable of doing many things that Messi isn't even capable of and I value those attributes higher than dribbling. I prefer a direct style of football and don't like tiki taka.
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What are these attributes you speak of (genuine question)?

With regards to their heading ability - their skill with finishing with their head is the same/very similar. Though clearly Ronado's size and athleticism allows him to be a much more dangerous weapon with areal balls. He can finish with headers whilst being challenged, which I doubt Messi can (unless he's being opposed by another shorty).
 
CLARiiON said:
[Not the latest data, till January, but if anything this will even be better in Feb].

Messi's percentage of forward passes this season is 56%, Ronaldo 43%. Number of accurate long balls this season from Messi is 63, Ronaldo's 16. I won't even go to the number of attempted dribbles for them. So please explain what makes Ronaldo a more direct player? He even has less number of goals from outside the box. I am struggling to think what factors make Ronaldo a more direct player.
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Maybe he means Ronaldo circa Real Madrid.
 
Cal? said:
Yet some how the rest of the football world thinks it's much closer than some of you suggest...


I've already said it many times, Ronaldo is capable of doing many things that Messi isn't even capable of and I value those attributes higher than dribbling. I prefer a direct style of football and don't like tiki taka.
Click to expand...

Similarly Messi can do things that Ronaldo can't replicate, not just dribbling.

I understand your preference for a more vertical and a less possession based style and I can see how it could affect your perception of Messi. In fact, I'd rather watch the more adventurous 70s Ajax side than the tiki taka Barca myself, whilst considering the mid noughties Barca side to be the more 'exciting' (subjective obviously) side than the Guardiola one.

I'd always wondered how Messi would have turned out in a team which was more vertical and allowed him more liberty to be even more individualistic and selfish (ala Robben/Ronaldo etc). Perhaps we might have seen a more 'exciting' Messi, always looking to make something happen on the ball but certainly a more infuriating and a less efficient one.

However, if you scrutinise the matter further, then you'd know that's what makes Messi truly special. He's a genuine team player on the ball, always looking for the right option on the ball, linking up, playing one-twos etc like a true playmaker. He's a complete forward in that sense - the technique, creativity and vision of a playmaker; the dribbling, skills and flair of a winger; the ruthless finishing and goalscoring record that'd be the envy of many a poacher. Basically a playmaker, goalscorer and a team player (on the ball ofc, his work rate off the ball is almost non existential nowadays) rolled into one. Just about everything you'd want from your ideal forward bar the physicality and power.

Ronaldo on the other hand is a complete goalscorer and a fantastic one at that. Headers, long rangers, predatory finishes etc, he's got it all in his locker. Great goalscorer and will rightly go down as a great. In fact I do think his all round game tends to be downplayed quite a bit. He's decent at link up play and a decent passer. Most certainly not an Inzaghi (limited poacher) on steroids that some wrongly portray him as. However, even the staunchest CR7 fan would have to admit that his game does heavily revolves around goalscoring and so too does his gameplay.

Like Raees, I prefer the 06-08 Ronaldo (stylistically), who was much more of a complete player and a more enjoyable one. This version of Ronaldo is obviously the better, more incisive and the more deadly individual of course. Just like how I prefer the 10/11 Bale to the current incarnation despite the current version being better.

Anyway back on topic, just take the goals out of the equation for a moment and imagine what they both bring to the plate. Messi brings so much more to the fore and given that both more or less have a similar goalscoring record overall, I'd say Messi is the superior player, clearly so.

If you prefer Ronaldo's more powerful and direct play then fair enough. However, that is a matter of personal preference and does not constitute for a valid argument on who's the better player. The same way the explosive Eusebio isn't considered to be better than the refined Cruyff but is considered to be a great player nonetheless.

Anyway I would really appreciate a more expansive post on why you think Ronaldo is the better player. I'm really curious as to why you'd view it that way. I do respect your opinion and won't laugh it off, so go ahead.
 
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Joga Bonito said:
Similarly Messi can do things that Ronaldo can't replicate, not just dribbling.

I understand your preference for a more vertical and a less possession based style and I can see how it could affect your perception of Messi. In fact, I'd rather watch the more adventurous 70s Ajax side than the tiki taka Barca myself, whilst considering the mid noughties Barca side to be the more 'exciting' (subjective obviously) side than the Guardiola one.

I'd always wondered how Messi would have turned out in a team which was more vertical and allowed him more liberty to be even more individualistic and selfish (ala Robben/Ronaldo etc). Perhaps we might have seen a more 'exciting' Messi, always looking to make something happen on the ball but certainly a more infuriating and a less efficient one.

However, if you scrutinise the matter further, then you'd know that's what makes Messi truly special. He's a genuine team player on the ball, always looking for the right option on the ball, linking up, playing one-twos etc like a true playmaker. He's a complete forward in that sense - the technique, creativity and vision of a playmaker; the dribbling, skills and flair of a winger; the ruthless finishing and goalscoring record that'd be the envy of many a poacher. Basically a playmaker, goalscorer and a team player (on the ball ofc, his work rate off the ball is almost non existential nowadays) rolled into one. Just about everything you'd want from your ideal forward bar the physicality and power.

Ronaldo on the other hand is a complete goalscorer and a fantastic one at that. Headers, long rangers, predatory finishes etc, he's got it all in his locker. Great goalscorer and will rightly go down as a great. In fact I do think his all round game tends to be downplayed quite a bit. He's decent at link up play and a decent passer. Most certainly not an Inzaghi (limited poacher) on steroids that some wrongly portray him as. However, even the staunchest CR7 fan would have to admit that his game does heavily revolves around goalscoring and so too does his gameplay.

Like Raees, I prefer the 06-08 Ronaldo (stylistically), who was much more of a complete player and a more enjoyable one. This version of Ronaldo is obviously the better, more incisive and the more deadly individual of course. Just like how I prefer the 10/11 Bale to the current incarnation despite the current version being better.

Anyway back on topic, just take the goals out of the equation for a moment and imagine what they both bring to the plate. Messi brings so much more to the fore and given that both more or less have a similar goalscoring record overall, I'd say Messi is the superior player, clearly so.

If you prefer Ronaldo's more powerful and direct play then fair enough. However, that is a matter of personal preference and does not constitute for a valid argument on who's the better player. The same way the explosive Eusebio isn't considered to be better player than the refined Cruyff but is considered to be a great player nonetheless.

Anyway I would really appreciate a more expansive post on why you think Ronaldo is the better player. I'm really curious as to why you'd view it that way. I do respect your opinion and won't laugh it off, so go ahead.
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Good post.

However you won't get one, I've been asking - in fact many people have been asking this of him for years but no one is yet to see any kind of response.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Similarly Messi can do things that Ronaldo can't replicate, not just dribbling.

I understand your preference for a more vertical and a less possession based style and I can see how it could affect your perception of Messi. In fact, I'd rather watch the more adventurous 70s Ajax side than the tiki taka Barca myself, whilst considering the mid noughties Barca side to be the more 'exciting' (subjective obviously) side than the Guardiola one.

I'd always wondered how Messi would have turned out in a team which was more vertical and allowed him more liberty to be even more individualistic and selfish (ala Robben/Ronaldo etc). Perhaps we might have seen a more 'exciting' Messi, always looking to make something happen on the ball but certainly a more infuriating and a less efficient one.

However, if you scrutinise the matter further, then you'd know that's what makes Messi truly special. He's a genuine team player on the ball, always looking for the right option on the ball, linking up, playing one-twos etc like a true playmaker. He's a complete forward in that sense - the technique, creativity and vision of a playmaker; the dribbling, skills and flair of a winger; the ruthless finishing and goalscoring record that'd be the envy of many a poacher. Basically a playmaker, goalscorer and a team player (on the ball ofc, his work rate off the ball is almost non existential nowadays) rolled into one. Just about everything you'd want from your ideal forward bar the physicality and power.

Ronaldo on the other hand is a complete goalscorer and a fantastic one at that. Headers, long rangers, predatory finishes etc, he's got it all in his locker. Great goalscorer and will rightly go down as a great. In fact I do think his all round game tends to be downplayed quite a bit. He's decent at link up play and a decent passer. Most certainly not an Inzaghi (limited poacher) on steroids that some wrongly portray him as. However, even the staunchest CR7 fan would have to admit that his game does heavily revolves around goalscoring and so too does his gameplay.

Like Raees, I prefer the 06-08 Ronaldo (stylistically), who was much more of a complete player and a more enjoyable one. This version of Ronaldo is obviously the better, more incisive and the more deadly individual of course. Just like how I prefer the 10/11 Bale to the current incarnation despite the current version being better.

Anyway back on topic, just take the goals out of the equation for a moment and imagine what they both bring to the plate. Messi brings so much more to the fore and given that both more or less have a similar goalscoring record overall, I'd say Messi is the superior player, clearly so.

If you prefer Ronaldo's more powerful and direct play then fair enough. However, that is a matter of personal preference and does not constitute for a valid argument on who's the better player. The same way the explosive Eusebio isn't considered to be better than the refined Cruyff but is considered to be a great player nonetheless.

Anyway I would really appreciate a more expansive post on why you think Ronaldo is the better player. I'm really curious as to why you'd view it that way. I do respect your opinion and won't laugh it off, so go ahead.
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Excellent post. An actual analysis of the two players instead of wild speculation as to whether Messi would be able to perform so well in a Barcelona team without Xavi wearing his hair spiked up, Pique bragging about sleeping with Shakira in the dressing room, and the temperature being exactly 22 degrees on a Saturday at 5.23pm.

I jest with the last part, although it's refreshing to see an actual analysis of the two players, and as to why Messi is better.
 
CLARiiON said:
[Not the latest data, till January, but if anything this will even be better in Feb].

Messi's percentage of forward passes this season is 56%, Ronaldo 43%. Number of accurate long balls this season from Messi is 63, Ronaldo's 16. I won't even go to the number of attempted dribbles for them. So please explain what makes Ronaldo a more direct player? He even has less number of goals from outside the box. I am struggling to think what factors make Ronaldo a more direct player.
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As pointed out many times, Barcelona play many more passes than Real Madrid over a season, it's hardly surprising that Messi plays more passes, long or short, also, Ronaldo's role in the team is to get onto the end of those passes, rather than making them.

Rykker_4united said:
You only have to watch the two right now and look at their attitudes to see who is on top at this moment. I think when we look back at this period of footballer Messi is going to have the greater legacy.
Click to expand...
Right now I've not denied that Messi has had a great few months and clearly ahead for 2015, however, it seems either people have very short term memories and are quick to write off how Ronaldo was doing until the Balon D'or award (or his break up).
cesc's_mullet said:
What are these attributes you speak of (genuine question)?

With regards to their heading ability - their skill with finishing with their head is the same/very similar. Though clearly Ronado's size and athleticism allows him to be a much more dangerous weapon with areal balls. He can finish with headers whilst being challenged, which I doubt Messi can (unless he's being opposed by another shorty).
Click to expand...

Messi is great at heading for his height, but given his height, he's not very good at heading overall. The same can be said of Ronaldo's close control, dribbling, great for his height but being much taller, and having a much higher centre of gravity means he cannot do what Messi can.

Joga Bonito said:
Similarly Messi can do things that Ronaldo can't replicate, not just dribbling.

I understand your preference for a more vertical and a less possession based style and I can see how it could affect your perception of Messi. In fact, I'd rather watch the more adventurous 70s Ajax side than the tiki taka Barca myself, whilst considering the mid noughties Barca side to be the more 'exciting' (subjective obviously) side than the Guardiola one.

I'd always wondered how Messi would have turned out in a team which was more vertical and allowed him more liberty to be even more individualistic and selfish (ala Robben/Ronaldo etc). Perhaps we might have seen a more 'exciting' Messi, always looking to make something happen on the ball but certainly a more infuriating and a less efficient one.

However, if you scrutinise the matter further, then you'd know that's what makes Messi truly special. He's a genuine team player on the ball, always looking for the right option on the ball, linking up, playing one-twos etc like a true playmaker. He's a complete forward in that sense - the technique, creativity and vision of a playmaker; the dribbling, skills and flair of a winger; the ruthless finishing and goalscoring record that'd be the envy of many a poacher. Basically a playmaker, goalscorer and a team player (on the ball ofc, his work rate off the ball is almost non existential nowadays) rolled into one. Just about everything you'd want from your ideal forward bar the physicality and power.

Ronaldo on the other hand is a complete goalscorer and a fantastic one at that. Headers, long rangers, predatory finishes etc, he's got it all in his locker. Great goalscorer and will rightly go down as a great. In fact I do think his all round game tends to be downplayed quite a bit. He's decent at link up play and a decent passer. Most certainly not an Inzaghi (limited poacher) on steroids that some wrongly portray him as. However, even the staunchest CR7 fan would have to admit that his game does heavily revolves around goalscoring and so too does his gameplay.

Like Raees, I prefer the 06-08 Ronaldo (stylistically), who was much more of a complete player and a more enjoyable one. This version of Ronaldo is obviously the better, more incisive and the more deadly individual of course. Just like how I prefer the 10/11 Bale to the current incarnation despite the current version being better.

Anyway back on topic, just take the goals out of the equation for a moment and imagine what they both bring to the plate. Messi brings so much more to the fore and given that both more or less have a similar goalscoring record overall, I'd say Messi is the superior player, clearly so.

If you prefer Ronaldo's more powerful and direct play then fair enough. However, that is a matter of personal preference and does not constitute for a valid argument on who's the better player. The same way the explosive Eusebio isn't considered to be better than the refined Cruyff but is considered to be a great player nonetheless.

Anyway I would really appreciate a more expansive post on why you think Ronaldo is the better player. I'm really curious as to why you'd view it that way. I do respect your opinion and won't laugh it off, so go ahead.
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If you rule out the goals, Messi is the better player, however, given the amount of possession each team gets over a game, Ronaldo's scoring record over each minute that Real Madrid have possession is actually much higher than Messi's at Barca. Also, as pointed out earlier, it's not a coincidence that Messi has not looked his former self (until the last couple of months at least), since Xavi and Iniesta's form went to shit in the last 2 year or so.

I've always said it's a matter of preference, and never tried to force my opinion onto others like Messi fans who go around talking about their man being better as "FACT" or "REALITY".
 
Ten years from now I see people debating who was the best player... Pele, maradonna or messi

I see ronaldo being thought of like cruyff, best, plattin, Garrincha, di stefano... Still great players but in most people's mind a fraction behind being in contention for the title best ever

The reality is thats an amazing compliment and acknowledgement of ronaldos impact and achievements rather than it being a slight on him... Sadly a small element of people who are probably better defined as Ronaldo fans rather than football fans will disagree
 
@Cal?

You have fanmail.

From Redcafefan who pmed me.

RedCafeFan said:
Some facts for that Cal guy, because he is talking nonsense.

Messi's form didn't drop 2 years ago when Xavi and Iniesta "went into decline", it droped because he got freaking injured then rushed into the Bayern game and injured again. He was out for quite a while, then he had some minor injuries everytime he came back.

Iniesta was not in decline 2 years ago, infact it was one of his best seasons in his whole history.
Iniesta was also injured often, and Xavi was injured sometime too or didn't play before Messi got injured, without them on the field Messi actually has better statistics than when they were playing.

Also Messi has something like 23 goals and 13 assists in his last 24 matches for Argentina, where are Xavi and Iniesta there? What a load of crap that has been disproven a long time ago.

Fact is, Messi at his peak is a better player than Cristiano ever was, Cristiano never reached Messi's peak, he had periods when he was better, but Messi was not 100% then, he was coming back from injuries or just not in the same form as before after them, now he is coming back to his 2010-2012 peak again and we can already see a huge difference.

Even when Ronaldo was scoring tons of goals months ago, he was nowhere near Messi, yes he scored tons of goals ( alot from penalties, something like 10 penalties out of 28 goals or so, but still.. even scoring tons of goals he was nowhere near influential on the pitch, nowhere near Messi, he is just on another level when in form and close to his peak.
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sun_tzu said:
Ten years from now I see people debating who was the best player... Pele, maradonna or messi

I see ronaldo being thought of like cruyff, best, plattin, Garrincha, di stefano... Still great players but in most people's mind a fraction behind being in contention for the title best ever

The reality is thats an amazing compliment and acknowledgement of ronaldos impact and achievements rather than it being a slight on him... Sadly a small element of people who are probably better defined as Ronaldo fans rather than football fans will disagree
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Hmm I'd elevate Garrincha, Cruyff and Di Stefano to the top tier, players who have a legitimate claim to being the best ever. The second tier would be the likes of Puskas, Eusebio, Beckenbauer (deserves to be in the top tier but defender bias..), Platini, Best etc. I'd say Messi deserves to be in the top tier and Ronaldo perhaps in the second.

Anyway it's a subjective list and I'm sure I've missed a lot of glaring examples.

Cal? said:
Right now I've not denied that Messi has had a great few months and clearly ahead for 2015, however, it seems either people have very short term memories and are quick to write off how Ronaldo was doing until the Balon D'or award (or his break up).

If you rule out the goals, Messi is the better player, however, given the amount of possession each team gets over a game, Ronaldo's scoring record over each minute that Real Madrid have possession is actually much higher than Messi's at Barca. Also, as pointed out earlier, it's not a coincidence that Messi has not looked his former self (until the last couple of months at least), since Xavi and Iniesta's form went to shit in the last 2 year or so.

I've always said it's a matter of preference, and never tried to force my opinion onto others like Messi fans who go around talking about their man being better as "FACT" or "REALITY".
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Fair enough, although I'd just like to say that Messi has been pretty darn good throughout this season and not just in the past few months. There has been very few games (Malaga, Real etc) when he was poor or anonymous.

You are also a tad bit harsh with the "Messi has not looked his former self, since Xavi and Iniesta's form went to shit in the last 2 year or so" comment.

Xavi (aging) and Iniesta (off color) haven't been at their influential best this season and it's Messi who's taken full reign over the team and taken over the mantle of being the chief orchestrator, playmaking, spreading play, threading balls, keeping things ticking and creating chance after chance (just ask the wasteful Alba & Neymar). All whilst still possessing a great goalscoring threat. People point to his dip in goals and extrapolate that to his entire form, when it couldn't be further from the case.

Has Messi's goals have dipped due to Xavi and Iniesta's lack of form? Yes, but that's simply due to Messi being even more involved in the build up play deeper. Not due to him 'struggling' for service. Keep in mind that I'm primarily talking about this season. Messi was pretty disappointing and woeful at times last season.

Like I've already stated, he's been brilliant throughout this entire season and not just this past few months which many wrongly make it out to be.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lionel-messi.225097/page-373#post-16533377

This was a post which I made earlier this season. Messi was (and is) singlehandedly dragging a lacklustre Barça through. There actually wasn't a huge gulf in form between the two at the start of the season tbh, although I'd give Ronaldo the edge due to his outrageous scoring exploits during that period.
 
Cal? said:
Yet some how the rest of the football world thinks it's much closer than some of you suggest...
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Not really. Ronaldo gets talked about for inclusion as one of the greatest of all time.

Messi gets talked about as possible the greatest of all time.

All the pundits here in Denmark pretty much take it for granted that Messi is the better player, even if Ronaldo has had a few seasons performing better than Messi was at that point in time.
 
Joga Bonito said:
Hmm I'd elevate Garrincha, Cruyff and Di Stefano to the top tier, players who have a legitimate claim to being the best ever. The second tier would be the likes of Puskas, Eusebio, Beckenbauer (deserves to be in the top tier but defender bias..), Platini, Best etc. I'd say Messi deserves to be in the top tier and Ronaldo perhaps in the second.

Anyway it's a subjective list and I'm sure I've missed a lot of glaring examples.



Fair enough, although I'd just like to say that Messi has been pretty darn good throughout this season and not just in the past few months. There has been very few games (Malaga, Real etc) when he was poor or anonymous.

You are also a tad bit harsh with the "Messi has not looked his former self, since Xavi and Iniesta's form went to shit in the last 2 year or so" comment.

Xavi (aging) and Iniesta (off color) haven't been at their influential best this season and it's Messi who's taken full reign over the team and taken over the mantle of being the chief orchestrator, playmaking, spreading play, threading balls, keeping things ticking and creating chance after chance (just ask the wasteful Alba & Neymar). All whilst still possessing a great goalscoring threat. People point to his dip in goals and extrapolate that to his entire form, when it couldn't be further from the case.

Has Messi's goals have dipped due to Xavi and Iniesta's lack of form (and also being plagued by injuries)? Yes, but that's simply due to Messi being even more involved in the build up play deeper. Not due to him 'struggling' for service.

Like I've already stated, he's been brilliant throughout this entire season and not just this past few months which many wrongly make it out to be.

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/lionel-messi.225097/page-373#post-16533377

This was a post which I made earlier this season. Messi was (and is) singlehandedly dragging a lacklustre Barça through. There actually wasn't a huge gulf in form between the two at the start of the season tbh, although I'd give Ronaldo the edge due to his outrageous scoring exploits during that period.
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Agree with this. The narrative this season (2014/15) comes from fans and journalists outside Spain who don't bother watching these matches apart from perhaps the goals, occasionally highlights, but most of the time simply check the stats and AP-style short summaries about the match aka one-line goal descriptions on news sites, forums, etc. Messi has been outstanding all season with two very noticeable dips in form in the middle (three games end Oct.-begin Nov., ie. Real Madrid (A), Celta (H), Almería (A) and the two last games of 2014 and the first one of 2015, ie. Getafe (A), Córdoba (H), Real Sociedad (A), where he only came on as a sub), and here and there a lesser game like against Málaga (A) and APOEL (H).

Cristiano was very inconsistent in the first months, some excellent performances (v Levante, Granada, Athletic, Elche, a devastating 1st half v Atléti) mixed with some very average ones (v Atlético in SSC, Villarreal, Córdoba, Barça), the only constant being goals. Since the turn of the year his goalscoring form has caught up with his performance level and he'd been on a run of 8 bad-to-average games where he's had almost no impact at all. Against Schalke he rebounded a bit, but performance-wise it wasn't different from the rest of that run.

Overall, in my opinion, Messi has been fairly comfortably better this season (also in CL and Copa). Significantly, he's done better in the bigger games (or equally as bad in the case of the clásico) and has had far more impressive top performances. The average player ratings in three major Spanish sports publications (Barcelona-based Mundo Deportivo and Madrid-based Marca & AS) that can be found online also reflect this view.


Still the narrative persists. But hey, goals...

 
Skorenzy said:
Agree with this. The narrative this season (2014/15) comes from fans and journalists outside Spain who don't bother watching these matches apart from perhaps the goals, occasionally highlights, but most of the time simply check the stats and AP-style short summaries about the match aka one-line goal descriptions on news sites, forums, etc. Messi has been outstanding all season with two very noticeable dips in form in the middle (three games end Oct.-begin Nov., ie. Real Madrid (A), Celta (H), Almería (A) and the two last games of 2014 and the first one of 2015, ie. Getafe (A), Córdoba (H), Real Sociedad (A), where he only came on as a sub), and here and there a lesser game like against Málaga (A) and APOEL (H).

Cristiano was very inconsistent in the first months, some excellent performances (v Levante, Granada, Athletic, Elche, a devastating 1st half v Atléti) mixed with some very average ones (v Atlético in SSC, Villarreal, Córdoba, Barça), the only constant being goals. Since the turn of the year his goalscoring form has caught up with his performance level and he'd been on a run of 8 bad-to-average games where he's had almost no impact at all. Against Schalke he rebounded a bit, but performance-wise it wasn't different from the rest of that run.

Overall, in my opinion, Messi has been fairly comfortably better this season (also in CL and Copa). Significantly, he's done better in the bigger games (or equally as bad in the case of the clásico) and has had far more impressive top performances. The average player ratings in three major Spanish sports publications (Barcelona-based Mundo Deportivo and Madrid-based Marca & AS) that can be found online also reflect this view.

Still the narrative persists. But hey, goals...

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last year messi scored a hattrick against real madrid
 
Marcosdeto said:
last year messi scored a hattrick against real madrid
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Skorenzy was only talking about this season though, when both were poor in the one and only clásico game so far. Agree with his summary by the way, sums up my view very well.
 
Someone please post classico stats including pen stats for classico's. would make for good viewing.
 
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