Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[Arruda]

The captains of FIFA's national teams, their managers and a media member from each country all had a vote. Not saying these guys are all football geniuses - that's why I said the "majority of voters" in my original post. However, most captains and managers of national teams in world football should at least have a good understanding of talent in the game.

As for the basketball MVP, it's done by the media, so they could easily be all idiots.

It's not about understanding of talent in game, but what the contest is. And these past few years, it's "Personality of the year", based on the achievements of Real/Barça, little more.

The captains and managers (who vote for POTY and voted for POTY/Ballon d'Or) aren't all clueless, but a huge majority of them go with the above media flow, quite clearly, and that's what decides the winner. A few vote for personal agendas (just look at Messi and Cristiano votes), and a few are either clueless or taking the piss, if you go and have a look at their choices... Aubameyang first? None of Ronaldo/Messi on top three... Seriously?

The thing is, we always know who will win, because we already understood what the criteria is. The vast majority in here thinks Messi is a better footballer, but we all knew who would take the prize, in this and previous years. And the criteria for who is the best footballer in the world isn't the criteria for who will receive the Ballon d'Or or be named Player of the Year. We're discussing different things.

 

[Cal?]

So you think that a final win in which Ronaldo did not win gives him a clear edge? Because that is literally the only difference in their international careers. I reckon that history will also remember that Ronaldo did not play in that final.

Had Messi gone off injured early in the WC final, and in the dying minutes of extra time Palacio scored the winner for Argentina, would that have given taken away Ronaldo's edge international football for you?

Messi completed the game and literally LOST the final by missing his penalty.

 

[Number1]

Again, Messi is the best player ever, Ronaldo is top ten, not bad for a goal scorer.

Ronaldo was known as a show pony when he first started out and won the Ballon d'Or at United as Neymar type player, sure he adapted his game over the years, yet you make this sound a negative, for me that's a positive as it shows just how good C.Ronaldo really is.

What makes me laugh though even if people prefer Messi over Ronaldo, Ronaldo as won the same amount of Ballon d'Or's as Messi, so if Messi is the GOAT (or one of) for a player to do that of this *cough* demi-god era of 'MESSI', must make Ronaldo just a little bit good and a GOAT too?

Yet people who prefer Messi don't, they totally down play Ronaldo's talents and achievements in the game.

Me personally i like to look at Messi vs Ronaldo as arguably the greatest individual rivalry in football in how 2 players motivated each other to become what they are today (2 of the greatest players of all time), how they've both dominated the ballon d'Or for a decade and broke all sorts of other records, i don't think as been done before and I don't think we'll see in football again.

 

[Peyroteo]

It's not about understanding of talent in game, but what the contest is. And these past few years, it's "Personality of the year", based on the achievements of Real/Barça, little more.

The captains and managers (who vote for POTY and voted for POTY/Ballon d'Or) aren't all clueless, but a huge majority of them go with the above media flow, quite clearly, and that's what decides the winner. A few vote for personal agendas (just look at Messi and Cristiano votes), and a few are either clueless or taking the piss, if you go and have a look at their choices... Aubameyang first? None of Ronaldo/Messi on top three... Seriously?

The thing is, we always know who will win, because we already understood what the criteria is. The vast majority in here thinks Messi is a better footballer, but we all knew who would take the prize, in this and previous years. And the criteria for who is the best footballer in the world isn't the criteria for who will receive the Ballon d'Or or be named Player of the Year. We're discussing different things.

Maybe the best player in the world is the one who actually shows up in the biggest competitions of the season rather than the one who can make the prettiest passes?

But yeah, it's a media agenda that wants to make Ronaldo look better. The same media who bashes him at every opportunity. The criteria isn't who wins things, it's performanced based taking into account the importance of said performances and taking into account the importance of competitions. It's not a popularity contest. Forlan and Sneijder rightly finished above Cristiano in 2010 because they were the better players that season, not because they were more popular.

If the vast majority thinks Messi was the better player in 2017 then the vast majority are idiots.

 

[Arruda]

Maybe the best player in the world is the one who actually shows up in the biggest competitions of the season rather than the one who can make the prettiest passes?

But yeah, it's a media agenda that wants to make Ronaldo look better. The same media who bashes him at every opportunity. The criteria isn't who wins things, it's performanced based taking into account the importance of said performances and taking into account the importance of competitions. It's not a popularity contest. Forlan and Sneijder rightly finished above Cristiano in 2010 because they were the better players that season, not because they were more popular.

If the vast majority thinks Messi was the better player in 2017 then the vast majority are idiots.

I didn't say it's a media agenda that wants to make Ronaldo look better. I'm just saying that the criteria we use (mostly in this thread or similar ones) to determine who's the best player isn't the same FIFA/France Football have been using. And the media, fans, and the people who vote have come to accept those other criteria.

You'll notice most people here aren't discussing their achievements. They are just saying who they think the best footballer is. I don't even care what year we're talking about, my decision has been made a long time, and Ronaldo hasn't done nothing to change it - nor he can do.

 

[gibers]

Not true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_Ballon_d'Or

Go to voting - 3rd paragraph.

That's the FIFA Ballon D'or.

That award has reverted back to the original version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d'Or_2017

FIFA's version is now THE BEST awards that's done by captains and coaches.

France Football's Ballon D'or is back to being voted by only the journalists.

 

[Peyroteo]

I didn't say it's a media agenda that wants to make Ronaldo look better. I'm just saying that the criteria we use (mostly in this thread or similar ones) to determine who's the best player isn't the same FIFA/France Football have been using. And the media, fans, and the people who vote have come to accept that.

You'll notice most people here aren't discussing their achievements. They are just saying who they think the best footballer is. I don't even care what year we're talking about, my decision has been made a long time, and Ronaldo hasn't done nothing to change it - nor he can do.

If Ronaldo has 7 10/10 perfromances and leads Portugal to the World Cup while Messi fails spetacularly you still wouldn't think Ronaldo's the better player?

 

[Moby]

So far Messi is the best I have seen in my lifetime and I struggle to see a player being better than him in my lifetime anyway

Wouldn't be bothering discussing football with you!

 

[Arruda]

If Ronaldo has 7 10/10 perfromances and leads Portugal to the World Cup while Messi fails spetacularly you still wouldn't think Ronaldo's the better player?

It would change my outlook on their careers significantly, and yes, it would be an enormous achievement and I would definitely vote for him for Player of the Year. Wouldn't think it would make him a better player overall on the basis of a single tournament, let alone a NT one.

That isn't going to happen though, he doesn't have the ability to do that. That's what I meant by "nor he can do".

 

[Peyroteo]

It wouldn't change my outlook on their careers significantly

But how could something like that not change your outlook on their careers significantly when it would be bigger than anything either of them has done in their careers by a long way?

If Messi has a great WC and Ronaldo fails I'll have no problem putting Messi above Ronaldo for their whole careers.

 

[Sly]

But how could something like that not change your outlook on their careers when it would be bigger than anything either of them has done in their careers by a long way?

If Messi has a great WC and Ronaldo fails I'll have no problem putting Messi above Ronaldo for their whole careers.

You are wasting your time mate. I stop doing that years ago.

 

[Arruda]

But how could something like that not change your outlook on their careers significantly when it would be bigger than anything either of them has done in their careers by a long way?

If Messi has a great WC and Ronaldo fails I'll have no problem putting Messi above Ronaldo for their whole careers.

I edited the part you quoted a while ago, because I thought it better, and yes, something like that would go to the history books and would definitely be a major factor when evaluating their careers in hindsight.

It's such an absurdly hypothetical scenario that it's hard to factor immediately what one would think.

 

[charlton66]

That's the FIFA Ballon D'or.

That award has reverted back to the original version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballon_d'Or_2017

FIFA's version is now THE BEST awards that's done by captains and coaches.

France Football's Ballon D'or is back to being voted by only the journalists.

Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't realize actual footballers no longer had a vote. That does diminish the award somewhat in my eyes, although I'm sure neither Messi or Ronaldo will let that bother them if they win more of these awards in the future.

 

[Pocho]

Another great performance by Ronaldo he shot the ball like ten times. This debate is nonsense.

 

[gibers]

Another great performance by Ronaldo he shot the ball like ten times. This debate is nonsense.

It's madness. TBH he has always been a volume shooter. That's why Madrid did better when he just stayed i the box and stopped taking pot shots from improbable angles. It's crazy how poor he is when he has no service.

 

[Rajma]

Another great performance by Ronaldo he shot the ball like ten times. This debate is nonsense.

These are unimportant games now according to his crew, previously when he showed up only in smaller games it was the other way round, mental gymnastics of theirs know no boundaries. Anyway 2 Laligas with Real during his time in Spain is awful return.

 

[Daysleeper]

Compare the number of absolutely HORRIBLE games ronaldo has had compared to Messi and it isn’t even close. You can count the number of atrocious Messi performances on one hand.

Now compare the ten best Messi games to the ten best ronaldo games and Messi wins that comfortably.

Messi is one goal away from having scored in more UCL finals than any other player in history.

Ronaldo was legit terrible in half the UCL finals he has played in.

 

[gibers]

Compare the number of absolutely HORRIBLE games ronaldo has had compared to Messi and it isn’t even close. You can count the number of atrocious Messi performances on one hand.

Now compare the ten best Messi games to the ten best ronaldo games and Messi wins that comfortably.

Messi is one goal away from having scored in more UCL finals than any other player in history.

Ronaldo was legit terrible in half the UCL finals he has played in.

That's the problem here. He will have poor games all through the year and people will go "O but at least he scored" or "he will turn up in big games". If Madrid don't create he does nothing and it's been like this for at least the last 3/4 seasons.

 

[Pocho]

Please close this thread and start a Ronaldo vs Muller and Messi vs Maradona.

 

[Luke1995]

Compare the number of absolutely HORRIBLE games ronaldo has had compared to Messi and it isn’t even close. You can count the nicer of atrocious Messi performances on one hand.

Now compare the ten best Messi games to the ten best ronaldo games and Messi wins that comfortably.

Messi is one goal away from having scored in more UCL finals than any other player in history.

Ronaldo was legit terrible in half the UCL finals he has played in.

Yeah! Very bad performances by Messi: PSG Away 16-17, Bayern Away 12-13, Milan Away 12-13, Granada Away 13-14, Valladolid Away 13-14, Rubin Kazan Home 09-10. Out of the top of my head, these are the worst performances I remember, where Messi looked really like an average player. If I were to make one of Ronaldo, I could find 30 games in 2 minutes...

 

[JeffBoomTetris]

If thinking Messi is better makes me an idiot, then so be it. I'd be an idiot every day over being a pundit who makes weak arguments to say Cristiano is better

 

[Cal?]

Another great performance by Ronaldo he shot the ball like ten times. This debate is nonsense.

That’s right, games against Villarreal are the most important ones, never mind the latter stages of the CL.

 

[Vialli_92]

Ronaldo is one of the greatest goalscorers but people confuse that with being also one of the best players

Iniesta, Zidane, Messi all were better footballers and could dictate the flow of games, Ronaldo needs his team to be performing for him to make the difference and that comes with goals coming from being fed chances

If the team stops playing Ronaldo will struggle to put his mark on the game, he won't get the ball and make things happen for the team he relies on other's to do that for him so he can score

 

[Cal?]

Now compare the ten best Messi games to the ten best ronaldo games and Messi wins that comfortably.

Messi is one goal away from having scored in more UCL finals than any other player in history.

Ronaldo was legit terrible in half the UCL finals he has played in.

Interesting that Messi couldn’t even pull ONE solitary half decent performance out in the entire CL knockout stage in 2017.

Do you really want to talk about the UCL?

 

[Vialli_92]

Interesting that Messi couldn’t even pull ONE solitary half decent performance out in the entire CL knockout stage in 2017.

Do you really want to talk about the UCL?

He didn't have the luxury of his team outplaying all the other teams like Ronaldo at Madrid had

He was playing CM all of last season and still scored more goals than Ronaldo

I repeat a CM outscoring Ronaldo

 

[Cal?]

Please close this thread and start a Ronaldo vs Muller and Messi vs Maradona.

Feel free to ignore this thread if you like. I’ve given up on the Messi thread completely, you’re welcome to go circle w**k with your fellow believers there.

 

[Cal?]

Ronaldo is one of the greatest goalscorers but people confuse that with being also one of the best players

Iniesta, Zidane, Messi all were better footballers and could dictate the flow of games, Ronaldo needs his team to be performing for him to make the difference and that comes with goals coming from being fed chances

If the team stops playing Ronaldo will struggle to put his mark on the game, he won't get the ball and make things happen for the team he relies on other's to do that for him so he can score

Messi doesn’t need his team completely falls apart if you take one look at Argentina.

 

[Arruda]

Messi is one goal away from having scored in more UCL finals than any other player in history.

It doesn't matter. The best metric is "more goals scored from the QF onward". A cherry-picked one, but it's the most often I see quoted around here.

 

[Reddevil1978]

I'm just grateful I have watched these two great players over the years, and im happy that for a while Ronaldo played for us.

Can we just leave the comparisons alone and appreciate that we have been able to watch the two best players their has been for many years.

 

[Cal?]

He didn't have the luxury of his team outplaying all the other teams like Ronaldo at Madrid had

He was playing CM all of last season and still scored more goals than Ronaldo

I repeat a CM outscoring Ronaldo

Oh, poor Messi, never reaching the same heights since the retirement of Xavi, making do with the likes of Neymar.

He was playing CM!?

 

[Pink Moon]

I've kinda convinced myself that those that think Ronaldo is better do so because they fancy him. It's got to be that. You can't watch both players and come to the conclusion that he is better. You just can't.

 

[Vialli_92]

Messi doesn’t need his team completely falls apart if you take one look at Argentina.

If you look at the win % with and without Messi at Agentina they win much less

He is a one man army on the pitch

http://www.goal.com/en/news/14552/w...points-out-of-21-without-messi-the-stats-that

 

[Vialli_92]

Oh, poor Messi, never reaching the same heights since the retirement of Xavi, making do with the likes of Neymar.

He was playing CM!?

Yes he was playing CM

He had to drop into midfield every game to start the attacking play for Barcelona because they had nobody capable of bringing the ball forward

 

[Cal?]

Messi is one goal away from having scored in more UCL finals than any other player in history.

Ronaldo was legit terrible in half the UCL finals he has played in.

What? Please do not make up stats that is clearly false.

 

[Kinsella]

This thread -

 

[Cal?]

It doesn't matter. The best metric is "more goals scored from the QF onward". A cherry-picked one, but it's the most often I see quoted around here.

A cherry picked one is better than a made up one that you quoted

 

[Luke1995]

I think the best way of comparing is: Would ANY prime of any player beat ANY version of Messi ?

There's quite a few players who in their prime were better than certain years of Ronaldo. Even teenager messi was better than say, Maradona in 86 world cup or Pele in his prime.

 

[Cal?]

Yes he was playing CM

He had to drop into midfield every game to start the attacking play for Barcelona because they had nobody capable of bringing the ball forward

Dropping into midfield occasionally doesn’t make him a CM, unless you think Marcelo has been playing winger all his career

 

[Cal?]

I think the best way of comparing is: Would ANY prime of any player beat ANY version of Messi ?

There's quite a few players who in their prime were better than certain years of Ronaldo. Even teenager messi was better than say, Maradona in 86 world cup or Pele in his prime.

The football world thinks Ronaldo was better than Messi half of the last decade

 

[gibers]

I think the best way of comparing is: Would ANY prime of any player beat ANY version of Messi ?

There's quite a few players who in their prime were better than certain years of Ronaldo. Even teenager messi was better than say, Maradona in 86 world cup or Pele in his prime.

You've got to be kidding me...