Spoony has to be trolling. No one sane thinks Zidane is better than Messi.
Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!
- Thread starter amolbhatia50k
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You're exaggerating and over-simplifying the situation. Ronaldinho was never a star for Barcelona at the time. After the 2006 Champions League, he transformed into a different character. He was a disruptive influence - he partied excessively, looked to have put on excess weight, and missed training sessions. There is no comparison to be made and suggesting that Messi should be sold is a reactionary statement.
Messi is 27, in his prime, and has quite a few top seasons left in him. Physically, he looks fragile and isn't putting in the same work ethic. I don't know why that is. However what we do know is that he has played 50+ games for most seasons since 08/09, so it's understandable that he doesn't press, which he stopped doing well in 11/12 anyway. The so-called "decline" also comes down to teams adapting to Barcelona's system by playing with a low-block and either man-marking Messi or doubling up on him. That's why Suaréz has been bought in by Barcelona, to offer Barcelona a point of reference for Messi to benefit off of.
Zidane was good but he only won 2 or 3 titles in his whole club career. he's in Cazorla/Ben Harfa tier at best, especially if you look his records outside his comfort zone (France). he was never really good or consistent enough to drag the biggest teams to championships and was passenger most of the time. luckily for Madrid, he realized that and retired, and they returned to their winning ways by taking la liga right after that.
just banned spoony from this thread, he can read it but he can't post here
hey spoony!!!! how are you mate???!!!
mbuahahaha
hey spoony!!!! how are you mate???!!!
mbuahahaha
what a stupid thing to say.that was a bait for Spoony and now people will think I was serious 
that was a bait for Spoony and now people will think I was serious
hehe
For the World Cup, yes. Am I insane?
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I was stupid to hope this thread hadn't turned into a comparison, wasn't I?
No. You're only insane if you think Zidane is better than Messi overall. Better in a world cup is a fair opinion.
You see, that's why it makes me mad sometimes
Ok, you don't like him, fair enough. Why post such non-sense? It's like Messi-related threads always attract most trolls, most haters and most amount of ridiculous comparisons.
Ok, you don't like him, fair enough. Why post such non-sense? It's like Messi-related threads always attract most trolls, most haters and most amount of ridiculous comparisons.
Taken from the Barcelona forum
Argentinian magazine: "Don't cry for me, Barcelona. He wasn't the best, he didn't 'burst'. he is sad. Did we sell a joker? The story of a boy who was made of gold, and today is a failure"
Things never change eh?
Argentinian magazine: "Don't cry for me, Barcelona. He wasn't the best, he didn't 'burst'. he is sad. Did we sell a joker? The story of a boy who was made of gold, and today is a failure"
Things never change eh?
Jesus Christ
Taken from the Barcelona forum
Argentinian magazine: "Don't cry for me, Barcelona. He wasn't the best, he didn't 'burst'. he is sad. Did we sell a joker? The story of a boy who was made of gold, and today is a failure"
Things never change eh?
Maradona left Barcelona because Napoli made an astronomical offer AND to play in serie A was the dream of anyone those days. Do you remember Zico? He went to play for UDINESE
, just for the sake of playing in Serie A.Also Maradona scored like 40 goals in 50 matches (I think), a very respectable score, and left behind a broken ankle (by Goicoetxhea).
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The definition of idiocy: banging on about Maradona cheating with his hand of God goal. My mum used to do that. She knows feck all about football. I don't know if there's some kind of correlation there.
Sorry, but it feckin' well is pretty stupid.
Sorry, but it feckin' well is pretty stupid.
Messi has not been the best footballer for 4 consecutive years as some said. This can only be said by biased fanboys. Messi is an excellent player, perhaps in the top 100 or 200 of all time.
As some have said, comparing players from other eras of football is a bit ridiculous. Messi is not that good for us to be able to say he is the best regardless of era. The dude was not even clearly the best in his team Barcelona, just because his dribbling is better doesn't mean he was better than masterminds Iniesta and Xavi and people who've seen a lot of Barca will at least consider this.
The Barcelona/Spain proved it can do without him.
Also someone said comparing Zidane to Messi is ridiculous. Not by a long shot. Zidane had multiple qualities, just because he couldn't run around with the ball like Speedy Gonzalez doesn't make him inferior. I won't go into the Ronaldo issue since the topic does not allow it.
I think Messi's value has been blown out of proportion. Of course he is great, of course he is one of the greatest of our time, but in no way can it be argued "he is the best of all time" by a sane mind. This could have been argued if Ronaldinho's form had been consistent. The qualities of Ronaldinho were one of a kind, such a shame he destroyed his chance to be truly GOAT.
As some have said, comparing players from other eras of football is a bit ridiculous. Messi is not that good for us to be able to say he is the best regardless of era. The dude was not even clearly the best in his team Barcelona, just because his dribbling is better doesn't mean he was better than masterminds Iniesta and Xavi and people who've seen a lot of Barca will at least consider this.
The Barcelona/Spain proved it can do without him.
Also someone said comparing Zidane to Messi is ridiculous. Not by a long shot. Zidane had multiple qualities, just because he couldn't run around with the ball like Speedy Gonzalez doesn't make him inferior. I won't go into the Ronaldo issue since the topic does not allow it.
I think Messi's value has been blown out of proportion. Of course he is great, of course he is one of the greatest of our time, but in no way can it be argued "he is the best of all time" by a sane mind. This could have been argued if Ronaldinho's form had been consistent. The qualities of Ronaldinho were one of a kind, such a shame he destroyed his chance to be truly GOAT.
Also: being considered the best in a top team is also an indicator towards and not against being GOAT. Pele was clearly in his team, whereas Messi never was clearly the best in Barcelona.
^^ Wonderful analysis. Do you write for goal.com?
so I was right, today we will discuss is he even in top 100-200 of all time. I expect to read about Gallardo and Aimar here before friday.
Can we close this forum already? These newbies haven't earned the right to WUM like this.
It's a real shame this has been moved to the football forum. I was really looking forward to seeing labamba expand on his excellent Messi thoughts.
You don't really believe that "Messi isn't even the best in the Barcelona team" do you? He's significantly better than both Xavi and Iniesta. Please, tell me when Barcelona proved they can do it without him. They were terrible when he got injured. Remember PSG? They're struggling, heading out, bring on a clearly less than 50% fit Messi... bang, game won.
The fact you imply you need to be 'insane' to consider him a greatest of all time player is utter, utter bollocks.
Of course Zidane had multiple qualities. You then go on to dismiss Messi's by implying he's just a little pace freak which is clearly not true. He's a great dribbler but he's also a great passer and finisher. He's a brilliant, all round attacking footballer.
Edit: top 100 or 200 all time players. You're trolling and I took the bait. A+ job.
Wow Messi hasn't been the best footballer in the last 4 years
Guess he's been living under a rock.
Guess he's been living under a rock.
One year Xavi deserved to be the Ballon d'or but Messi got it, but we saw since Xavi went down the Barcelona and Spain's team went down as well, people forget this is a team's game and you are the best if the team play as a team and that's when I separate Messi from "he-who-must-not-be-named", one plays for the team and the other plays for himself.Wow Messi hasn't been the best footballer in the last 4 years
Guess he's been living under a rock.
Ronaldo plays for the team
Not just the monstrous goal and assist tallies he's chalked up over the years he's also scored very important goals for Barca, as United fans we should know about that with our encounters with Barca in those finals.
He meant messi plays for the team. And I agree that in general he does. But not this year. Some of his performances were well below par, especially in the games vs atletico. Even the Barcelona fans booed him and vented their frustration towards him. A barca fan on this forum said that his performance vs atletico was the worst he had ever seen. That's obviously a massive exaggeration but it is telling as in previous years messi was almost above criticism. Ronaldo played for the team much more than messi did this year by playing through injuries and sacrificing himself for the team like he did vs Bayern and atletico in the final. His tracking back in addition to his goals and passes was extremely important for the team.Ronaldo plays for the team
Not just the monstrous goal and assist tallies he's chalked up over the years he's also scored very important goals for Barca, as United fans we should know about that with our encounters with Barca in those finals.
I personally think don't think Messi will have as good of a legacy as people think now - The guy is only 26/27 and if there is a decline and doesn't retire until he's 35/36 people will remember this deteriorating player more so than what he was in his prime, Giggs was a victim of this.
Messi's 4 Ballon d'or's aswell, 2 of those he shouldn't have won, 1 occasion even saying that himself. There is a lot of love of him within FIFA and football in general and he gets votes/awards just on shear merit and that's what annoys some people (certainly me), hence him winning the World Cups best player - Everyone knows he wasn't, but it will be one of those in 3 years time, where you go "Messi had a shite World Cup 2014" and you'll get some people going "shite World Cup, yet player of the tournament"
And that's what Messi is to me I'm afraid, a pretender great in comparison Maradona/Pele due to peoples love of him and giving him votes/awards on shear merit when he realty should be nowhere near their legacy.
Messi's 4 Ballon d'or's aswell, 2 of those he shouldn't have won, 1 occasion even saying that himself. There is a lot of love of him within FIFA and football in general and he gets votes/awards just on shear merit and that's what annoys some people (certainly me), hence him winning the World Cups best player - Everyone knows he wasn't, but it will be one of those in 3 years time, where you go "Messi had a shite World Cup 2014" and you'll get some people going "shite World Cup, yet player of the tournament
"And that's what Messi is to me I'm afraid, a pretender great in comparison Maradona/Pele due to peoples love of him and giving him votes/awards on shear merit when he realty should be nowhere near their legacy.
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I agree, there is something wrong fitness wise, he looks tired after 60 mins, maybe he has been over played and needs a proper break.
I personally think don't think Messi will have as good of a legacy as people think now - The guy is only 26/27 and if there is a decline and doesn't retire until he's 35/36 people will remember this deteriorating player more so than what he was in his prime, Giggs was a victim of this.
Messi's 4 Ballon d'or's aswell, 2 of those he shouldn't have won, 1 occasion even saying that himself. There is a lot of love of him within FIFA and football in general and he gets votes/awards just on shear merit and that's what annoys some people (certainly me), hence him winning the World Cups best player - Everyone knows he wasn't, but it will be one of those in 3 years time, where you go "Messi had a shite World Cup 2014" and you'll get some people going "shite World Cup, yet player of the tournament
And that's what Messi is to me I'm afraid, a fraud all time great, talented player no doubt, but a pretender great in comparison Maradona/Pele due to peoples love of him and giving him votes/awards on shear merit when he realty should be nowhere near their legacy.
It's not his fault he get's these awards tbh he looked embarrassed picking up that award, because he's a decent human being and plays the game properly (rarely dives, shouts/swears on the pitch) should be counted in his favour not against him.
Fraud? how can he be a fraud, how can you ignore his record. If he was a fraud other players would be matching his performances apart for Ronaldo who comes close? no one else currently or in history compares. Sorry but your argument is absurd.
I think Tim Vickery summed it up pretty well on 5live. It's clear that he wasn't 100% (and hasn't been for a while if you look over the course of last season) and yet he produced brilliance in all of the matches he played in at the tournament. Argentina's attack didn't function very well - Aguero, Higuain, Lavezzi and Di Maria all worked their socks off but were far from their best. Messi saved his energy for a select few moments and these moments were special. That, along with his Barca performances is enough to put him with the greats of the game.
People speak a lot about his fantastic record. But also think about the range of goals he has scored, the defenders he leaves behind, the genius of his passing. There hasn't been another footballer in my lifetime (sadly, too young to have seen Maradona live) that has consistently produced these WTF moments.
People speak a lot about his fantastic record. But also think about the range of goals he has scored, the defenders he leaves behind, the genius of his passing. There hasn't been another footballer in my lifetime (sadly, too young to have seen Maradona live) that has consistently produced these WTF moments.
I personally think don't think Messi will have as good of a legacy as people think now - The guy is only 26/27 and if there is a decline and doesn't retire until he's 35/36 people will remember this deteriorating player more so than what he was in his prime, Giggs was a victim of this.
Messi's 4 Ballon d'or's aswell, 2 of those he shouldn't have won, 1 occasion even saying that himself. There is a lot of love of him within FIFA and football in general and he gets votes/awards just on shear merit and that's what annoys some people (certainly me), hence him winning the World Cups best player - Everyone knows he wasn't, but it will be one of those in 3 years time, where you go "Messi had a shite World Cup 2014" and you'll get some people going "shite World Cup, yet player of the tournament
And that's what Messi is to me I'm afraid, a fraud all time great, talented player no doubt, but a pretender great in comparison Maradona/Pele due to peoples love of him and giving him votes/awards on shear merit when he realty should be nowhere near their legacy.
he won 4 ballon d'or, two champions leagues, scored gazillion goals, drove argentina to the world cup final, won la liga i don't know how many times, scored 91 goals in one year setting an all time record, but he is a fraud
are you for real?
Maybe, but it is difficult to say. The throwing up is not a good sign but apparently he has being doing that for years and it never hampered his performances before. As for being overplayed, I don't know but I would say that a lot of the german players played just as much or more this year as well as in recent seasons. A lot of the people in this thread (I don't mean you) that have been making excuses for messi are the same ones criticising Ronaldo and laughing at suggestions that ronaldos poor performances were due to injury and saying that it was just a poor excuse despite the fact that he was injured since march and has been taken off in plenty of games for Madrid due to this and has been seen holding an ice pack on his knee many times in brazil both in training and outside when taking pictures with fans. I would consider the excuses being made for messi to be much worse than the ones being made for Ronaldo. Being injured after a season in which you gave 100% is a valid reason for not playing at your maximum capabilities in my eyes. Whereas with messi there are thousands of reasons, some people even saying he is tired. Its one thing to be injured and another to be tired. Im sure plenty of people at the world cup were tired but didn't have their dad come out and tell the world they are. Messi had a good world cup in my eyes but some of the stuff being said in this thread is ridiculous, both for and against messi.
You make a good point about Argentina's tactics, he would have done a lot better with a more attacking team strategy he would have been on the ball more. And i think Di Maria getting injured hurt them a lot, he linked defence to attack very well for them.
I only mentioned that because it was obvious to see, i don't see what that has to do with Ronaldo. Messi hasn't got the physique of Ronaldo who is a natural athlete. Maybe because of this he doesn't respond to illness/injury as well, but even if you are a Ronaldo fan or a Messi fan it is clear to see they were both not fit and no matter how great you are it will effect your game.
Fraud was maybe a bit of a strong word to use and I edited my post but i stick to what i say a few pages back. I believe Messi is a player who needs to be in a great team to shine, people say Messi is in decline, but arguably this is the best Messi that's ever turned up for Argentina in Brazil and it was hardly a great performance.
I personally don't think Messi is in decline, I believe Barcelona is in decline and with that Messi is being exposed for what he is (as said) a player who needs to be in a great team to shine. Mine and many other people have always wondered how Messi would always do if he never played for Barcelona, would he still be the same Messi? Would he still stand out as the world's best? Would he still score more goals than he plays? Well he's never stood out as the world's best for Argentina and now that Barcelona of 08-12 is no longer here, these question marks on Messi's head some people have always had are finally being answered, not everyone can see it yet but more and more people can and will as time goes on.
Yes Messi is an all time great, yes Messi is one of the best players of all time for what he's achieved in the game, but what i ment before was in comparison to Pele/Maradona, these 2 are in a tier of their own and Messi is not there and is a pretender great that way in comparison to them.
name me a great player that performed great without being surrounded by other good players and you will be right
The highlighted is exactly what I'm talking about and it's only been 3 days since the World Cup ended.
A year down the line, his World Cup performance will be hyped into something it wasn't even more.