Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!

[sammyvine]

Nani

I don't there is much difference. French defense looks better on paper but performance wise, it only performed marginally better. The attack was the same. They relied on Zidane to control the match and create chances. Only on odd occasions Ribery, Malouda and Henry popped up to do something just like Di Maria, Higuain have done this time. In the end, both teams scratched their way to the final.

For all the wailing about support, it was in Messi's hands to finish off his chance yesterday which he failed to even put on target. Then less spoken about that FK the better.

France had a far better team than Argentina
You are telling me Aguero, Higuain and Levezzi are equal to Henry, Ribery, Malouda and Trezeguet?
I didnt include Di Maria because he didnt play the last two games.
Makelele ans Vieira isnt an upgrade on Perez and Masherano?

 

[TheShedEnd]

Zidane played badly in a few beginning matches but were brilliant once the KO started. Messi played ok (not exceptional as he didn't do much for the team bar the goals) in the group stage but went invisible from the KO stage. Did absolutely nothing in the semi-final as well as the final. Sorry, no comparison here.

All in all, this is the best WC Messi has ever had for sure but to give him the golden ball is madness. The defenders of Argentina should be given the credit of them going to the final, not Messi.

Performance wise Messi was arguably better in 2010, still got slagged off because Argentina's defence fell apart against Germany.

The Argentinian defence deserve no more praise than Messi who actually played the biggest part getting them through qualification and through to the the QF's.

He was not shit last night either, I thought he was very dangerous when he got the ball, especially in the first half along with Lavezzi. Once he went off Messi had to run around more, that killed his game.

 

[Oneunited26]

What does this have to do with my suggestion that things are not so simple as to say Messi was the most important influence in Barcelona's domination?

Because he had one of the best teams around him, go look at that 2009 barcelona side
Alves puyol toure xavi iniesta eto'o henry, and they all played has a team in the peak of their powers.

A time when the style barca played set a new standard of how teams looked to aspire to, under a great coach. Without a good manager and the team round that great player, they are not winning anything. Messi is a great player, but there are teams out there like spain and germany has a team were special. It is not messi's fault, its just the way it is

 

[Snake Plissken]

You read some utter shite on here.

An Aussie journalist who covers Argentinian football said after the game "I dont understand people who couldn't wait to put the boot into Messi, I mean do you even like football?". Kind of summed it up, you could almost feel the collective sigh of relief on the cafe when Goetze scored that goal, and instead of that goal or Germany's WC win being the big talking point it's a group of bitters whinging about the golden ball award that's dominating discussion

I don't think people help themselves with ridiculous arguments like "Xavi and Iniesta dominated for Spain, but Messi didnt win anything for Argentina". I mean seriously, what a pointless load of nonsense that is, like Messi had the luxury of strolling into one of the strongest international squads ever, who had a huge advantage in that about half of them played with each other week in week out at club level, fronted by the greatest Spanish striker of all time in his prime.

 

[Oneunited26]

France didnt win in 2006
Im talking about generally
France's midfield is far better than Argentina's

Look at france's 1998 team when they won it, another special group of players, with zidane in his prime

 

[sammyvine]

Look at france's 1998 team when they won it, another special group of players, with zidane in his prime

I dont understand how anybody can say the teammates that Zidane had is equal to Messi's.

 

[Oneunited26]

You read some utter shite on here.

An Aussie journalist who covers Argentinian football said after the game "I dont understand people who couldn't wait to put the boot into Messi, I mean do you even like football?". Kind of summed it up, you could almost feel the collective sigh of relief on the cafe when Goetze scored that goal, and instead of that goal or Germany's WC win being the big talking point it's a group of bitters whinging about the golden ball award that's dominating discussion

I don't think people help themselves with ridiculous arguments like "Xavi and Iniesta dominated for Spain, but Messi didnt win anything for Argentina". I mean seriously, what a pointless load of nonsense that is, like Messi had the luxury of strolling into one of the strongest international squads ever, who had a huge advantage in that about half of them played with each other week in week out at club level, fronted by the greatest Spanish striker of all time in his prime.

Like I have said, messi broke onto the scene in 2005, so 2006 he was still insanely young at 17 at his first international tornament in the world cup 2006

Now messi's real world cup was 2010, who won it? Spain, which is seen has the greatest Spanish side in the history of Spanish football

world cup 2014, who won it? Germany, which is also seen has one of the best German sides in their history

So messi's last 2 world cups has collided with golden era's of German and Spanish football.

 

[sammyvine]

You read some utter shite on here.

An Aussie journalist who covers Argentinian football said after the game "I dont understand people who couldn't wait to put the boot into Messi, I mean do you even like football?". Kind of summed it up, you could almost feel the collective sigh of relief on the cafe when Goetze scored that goal, and instead of that goal or Germany's WC win being the big talking point it's a group of bitters whinging about the golden ball award that's dominating discussion

I don't think people help themselves with ridiculous arguments like "Xavi and Iniesta dominated for Spain, but Messi didnt win anything for Argentina". I mean seriously, what a pointless load of nonsense that is, like Messi had the luxury of strolling into one of the strongest international squads ever, who had a huge advantage in that about half of them played with each other week in week out at club level, fronted by the greatest Spanish striker of all time in his prime.

When you great the haters come naturally
If Messi wasnt that, thjs thread would not be 42 pages long,

 

[Snake Plissken]

Like I have said, messi broke onto the scene in 2005, so 2006 he was still insanely young at 17 at his first international tornament in the world cup 2006

Now messi's real world cup was 2010, who won it? Spain, which is seen has the greatest Spanish side in the history of Spanish football

world cup 2014, who won it? Germany, which is also seen has one of the best German sides in their history

So messi's last 2 world cups has collided with golden era's of German and Spanish football.

Not only that, he isn't in peak physical condition now, the timing has been unfortunate. Guillem Balague talks shit at times, but I thought his post match comment on Messi was quite apt, "he simply ran out of petrol".

 

[Oneunited26]

I dont understand how anybody can say the teammates that Zidane had is equal to Messi's.

Exactly, its always been about the team with these world cup winners. Pele is seen has a great, yet his era of the world cup was 1970's Brazilian teams, something messi does not have that luxury

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Look at france's 1998 team when they won it, another special group of players, with zidane in his prime

Some might say Zidane didn't even have a particularly grand tournament in '98 up until the final. And they'd have a point. But he scored twice in the final, won the cup and a decade and a half later, that's what's remembered.

If Messi had buried that chance and Argentina had won 1-0 I'm sure many would've forgotten soon enough that he looked a bit pale on the whole.

 

[TheShedEnd]

Like I have said, messi broke onto the scene in 2005, so 2006 he was still insanely young at 17 at his first international tornament in the world cup 2006

Now messi's real world cup was 2010, who won it? Spain, which is seen has the greatest Spanish side in the history of Spanish football

world cup 2014, who won it? Germany, which is also seen has one of the best German sides in their history

So messi's last 2 world cups has collided with golden era's of German and Spanish football.

Argentina's last three World Cups have come down to some terrible managerial displays.

2006 - Not playing Messi and taking Riquelme off against Germany
2010 - Maradona - nuff said
2014 - Sabella's obsession with Palacio and playing Messi too deep when he's struggling for fitness ultimately destroyed their chances in the end.

 

[crappycraperson]

France had a far better team than Argentina
You are telling me Aguero, Higuain and Levezzi are equal to Henry, Ribery, Malouda and Trezeguet?
I didnt include Di Maria because he didnt play the last two games.
Makelele ans Vieira isnt an upgrade on Perez and Masherano?

Ribery in 2006 was much worse than Di Maria of now. Ribery had that big goal against Spain but then Di Maria had the winner against Swiss. If anything Di Maria had a better WC. Either you did not watch Henry for France back then or you are massively overrating his contribution.

 

[Snake Plissken]

When you great the haters come naturally
If Messi wasnt that, thjs thread would not be 42 pages long,

Mate, switch Messi and Muller's goals around, and all we'd be hearing is "he got a hat-trick against a 10 man Portugal team that capitulated and one of them was a penalty, and a semi final goal with a free shot 6 yards out when Brasil folded". Guaranteed.

I understand great players will be hated, people will do everything they can to pick them apart, but this has been amped up quite a bit. I knew people were worried he'd lift the World Cup, obviously I didn't realise just how worried

 

[Oneunited26]

Some might say Zidane didn't even have a particularly grand tournament in '98 up until the final. And they'd have a point. But he scored twice in the final, won the cup and a decade and a half later, that's what's remembered.

If Messi had buried that chance and Argentina had won 1-0 I'm sure many would've forgotten soon enough that he looked a bit pale on the whole.

Both teams missed chances. I looked at Argentina, they looked very tired from their 130 minute battle with Holland, look at germany's semi final, they were not only in the final after 25 minutes, they played a day earlier. So Germany had that bit of fortune on their side

 

[VorZakone]

It's unfair to criticise Messi for Argentina not winning the WorldCup. I don't know what people expected him to do, but it's impossible in this era for one player to single-handedly win his country the WC. It's a team effort, and Messi did alright yesterday. It's so marginal, the best chances in the match were for Argentina but both Higuain and Palacio failed to put the ball in the net.

 

[Oneunited26]

Argentina's last three World Cups have come down to some terrible managerial displays.

2006 - Not playing Messi and taking Riquelme off against Germany
2010 - Maradona - nuff said
2014 - Sabella's obsession with Palacio and playing Messi too deep when he's struggling for fitness ultimately destroyed their chances in the end.

Oh yes no question, I was just pointing out the teams who have won the world cup with messi's prime years of 2010 2014 have been great Spanish and German teams

I always ask this question with Pele, he was part of the 1970's Brazilian side, lets see how good Pele is under the team's messi has played in with Portugal and Argentina. Put a ronaldo and messi in teams of that standard, even they would win a world cup.

With international football, it is always about how good the team is, not the individuals

 

[Bwuk]

He wasn't even Argentinas best player in the tournament.

 

[crappycraperson]

Or people wanted to see a peak Messi light up the WC regardless if Argies won it or not.

For the first 10 in the final, it looked we might see a proper Messi special but it wasn't to be.

There are definitely people who are eager to put down Messi no matter what but at the same time his fans are desperate to validate his every success no matter what. On the whole, regardless of the golden ball Messi's performance in this WC would not count anywhere near one of the best in the history of the tournament. That's a shame since there is nothing like watching best players perform at the big stage.

 

[Snake Plissken]

It's unfair to criticise Messi for Argentina not winning the WorldCup. I don't know what people expected him to do, but it's impossible in this era for one player to single-handedly win his country the WC. It's a team effort, and Messi did alright yesterday. It's so marginal, the best chances in the match were for Argentina but both Higuain and Palacio failed to put the ball in the net.

He did have a really good chance to score right enough, and there's no doubt in my mind he should have done better. But that's why he now goes into lower tier of great players. Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, Ronaldo etc NEVER missed a scoring chance in a big game, fact.

 

[ba_2992]

Barely ran 10 km in 120 minutes, ridiculous number. There has to be something wrong with him or maybe he really has just stopped giving a feck.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Barely ran 10 km in 120 minutes, ridiculous number. There has to be something wrong with him or maybe he really has just stopped giving a feck.

Absolutely no way he's stopped trying. He'd have been desperate to get that trophy for his country. It'll simply be a factor of the huge number of games he's played and the recurring muscle injuries that once plagued him as a teenager, that and his heaving and spewing on the pitch certainly don't paint the picture of a player in peak condition.

 

[Oneunited26]

Ribery in 2006 was much worse than Di Maria of now. Ribery had that big goal against Spain but then Di Maria had the winner against Swiss. If anything Di Maria had a better WC. Either you did not watch Henry for France back then or you are massively overrating his contribution.

Funny thing is, Di Maria had a better game than ronaldo in the CL final in may

 

[crappycraperson]

Funny thing is, Di Maria had a better game than ronaldo in the CL final in may

Why is that funny? It's true of course but I am not sure why it needed to be brought up here?

 

[VorZakone]

He did have a really good chance to score right enough, and there's no doubt in my mind he should have done better. But that's why he now goes into lower tier of great players. Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, Ronaldo etc NEVER missed a scoring chance in a big game, fact.

0:51 - 1:05 - 2:09

Those were 3 pretty good chances for Ronaldo to score, but he didn't. Messi came only once (?) in a decent scoring position yesterday compared to Ronaldo against Germany.

 

[Snake Plissken]

0:51 - 1:05 - 2:09

Those were 3 pretty good chances for Ronaldo to score, but he didn't. Messi came only once (?) in a decent scoring position yesterday compared to Ronaldo against Germany.

sarcasm mate. They all missed big chances, Messi had one good chance and didn't take it, just reminded the person who brought it up the greatest players of all time did it too.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Or people wanted to see a peak Messi light up the WC regardless if Argies won it or not.

For the first 10 in the final, it looked we might see a proper Messi special but it wasn't to be.

There are definitely people who are eager to put down Messi no matter what but at the same time his fans are desperate to validate his every success no matter what. On the whole, regardless of the golden ball Messi's performance in this WC would not count anywhere near one of the best in the history of the tournament. That's a shame since there is nothing like watching best players perform at the big stage.

This can't be disputed. And it's why reasonable people are saying they're a bit disappointed. Unreasonable people are gloating. And Messi fanatics seemingly take both the former and the latter as an insult.

 

[Marcosdeto]

Or people wanted to see a peak Messi light up the WC regardless if Argies won it or not.

For the first 10 in the final, it looked we might see a proper Messi special but it wasn't to be.

There are definitely people who are eager to put down Messi no matter what but at the same time his fans are desperate to validate his every success no matter what. On the whole, regardless of the golden ball Messi's performance in this WC would not count anywhere near one of the best in the history of the tournament. That's a shame since there is nothing like watching best players perform at the big stage.

even messi isnt happy with the trophy, i know he thinks he wasnt the best player of the tournament

but, if you ask my opinion, giving the prize to messi shouldnt cause the outrages it has, i think is more a recognicense to argentina coming second than anything

tbf, it should have gone to a german player -pick the one you want-

 

[crappycraperson]

even messi isnt happy with the trophy, i know he thinks he wasnt the best player of the tournament

but, if you ask my opinion, giving the prize to messi shouldnt cause the outrages it has, i think is more a recognicense to argentina coming second than anything

tbf, it should have gone to a german player -pick the one you want-

I think the golden ball should go to a winner almost always unless one player in another team has performed way better than others.

 

[Oneunited26]

Why is that funny? It's true of course but I am not sure why it needed to be brought up here?

Well he has played alongside ronaldo and messi, and in the big events for club and international football,the champions league final and the world cup, he has out performed both players, who are seen the 2 best players in the world currently. That is why I said funny thing is

 

[crappycraperson]

This can't be disputed. And it's why reasonable people are saying they're a bit disappointed. Unreasonable people are gloating. And Messi fanatics seemingly take both the former and the latter as an insult.

Infact I am certain if Argies were playing good attacking football in the whole tournament with Messi in full flow, then most neutrals who wanted Germany to win would have rooted for Argies to hand Brazil another humiliation by winning the WC at Rio.

 

[Marcosdeto]

I think the golden ball should go to a winner almost always unless one player in another team has performed way better than others.

yes, the thing is that the prize is decided before the final game, or so i heard.

anyway, i still think messi -and argentina- did a great world cup, and that we lost against a great team -and not 7 to 1!!! take that brazil-

 

[crappycraperson]

yes, the thing is that the prize is decided before the final game, or so i heard.

anyway, i still think messi -and argentina- did a great world cup, and that we lost against a great team -and not 7 to 1!!! take that brazil-

You had chances to win though. I would have backed your lot to keep Germans out if you had gone up 1-0. Those missed chances gotta hurt

 

[crappycraperson]

Well he has played alongside ronaldo and messi, and in the big events for club and international football,the champions league final and the world cup, he has out performed both players, who are seen the 2 best players in the world currently. That is why I said funny thing is

I won't say Di Maria was better than Messi at this WC at all. Messi was in the end, just about their best player. Mascherano had a very good WC but ultimately Messi won them games.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Infact I am certain if Argies were playing good attacking football in the whole tournament with Messi in full flow, then most neutrals who wanted Germany to win would have rooted for Argies to hand Brazil another humiliation by winning the WC at Rio.

Undoubtedly, yes. I think most neutrals who are passionate about football basically end up rooting for greatness, or what comes closest to greatness. For me it was down to the idea of Messi stepping up and having a great final versus what was obviously the best team in the tournament all factors considered.

 

[Marcosdeto]

You had chances to win though. I would have backed your lot to keep Germans out if you had gone up 1-0. Those missed chances gotta hurt

the truth is that i was expecting the germans to trash us, but they didnt.

and coldly thought, we lost against the better team

we didnt have the offensive players, too much is blamed to messi, but the truth is that when he got the ball he didnt see any argentinian running for the pass, and the few times he saw them, our offensive players failed to score

everyone talks about maradona doing a great 1986 and 1990, but if burruchaga had miss the goal oportunity against the germans or canigia against the brazilians, we would have not win the first, and we would not have played the final game in 1990

this is a team sports and to ask messi to do everything is too much

he scored four goals in the groups stage and set two more goals in the knockout stages, and that with an attack that never worked

i'm proud of him

 

[Originut]

He had a decent tournament, by far his best World Cup. By no means though should he have received the Golden Ball. I'm still stumped on that one. They should have just given it to him before the first game...

Also, in fairness he was let down by his teammates. Argentina played poor football throughout this tournament and quite honestly from their first game against B&H, I thought that had they come up against Chile, Columbia or Brazil in the knockout legs, they'd have been out on their bottoms. The only other player for Argentina that had a decent tournament was Mascherano, and he probably should have been sent off in the final, had the referee not been so card-shy.

 

[Cal?]

Expectations are just so high for him and Ronaldo. I remember all the criticism Ronaldo used to get when Madrid went out of the CL.
Messi was dissapointing in the final compared to his normal level but losing in the final against Germany isnt a shameful thing at all. Not many expected Argentina to even make it this far anyway.

Considering they were 2nd favourites before the tournament kicked off, I'd say the bookies expected then to make it exactly where they did.

 

[TheShedEnd]

Sorry, ignoring the thread title here for just a moment, where does Cristiano Ronaldo rank in these all time lists then?

 

[Marcosdeto]

He had a decent tournament, by far his best World Cup. By no means though should he have received the Golden Ball. I'm still stumped on that one. They should have just given it to him before the first game...

Also, in fairness he was let down by his teammates. Argentina played poor football throughout this tournament and quite honestly from their first game against B&H, I thought that had they come up against Chile, Columbia or Brazil in the knockout legs, they'd have been out on their bottoms. The only other player for Argentina that had a decent tournament was Mascherano, and he probably should have been sent off in the final, had the referee not been so card-shy.

you dont get to the final game with only one player having a "decent" tournament

our defense was excellent, we only conceded one goal -in OT against germany- during the whole knockout stages. and messi was one of the best five or six players of the world cup

although i agree messi wasnt the best in the tournament, i don't think there were a lot many players better than him -james. robben, shwesteiger, neuer and muller-