Messi at the World Cup - No Ronaldo comparisons!

Was quite something hearing the Argentina fans chant his name, been all sorts of talk about how they won't rate him up with Maradona even if he wins two World Cups, but that's a lie if he drags them to glory this year.

He also has the Copa America next year too, don't think even Maradona won that for them.
 
Don't believe the lies, he's loved in Argentina, not as much as Maradona but I think it's starting to become like that especially if he wins the World Cup.

The way he's saved himself playing for Barcelona to play in the World Cup for Argentina should show his true colours and they bleed Argentina.
 
He's been sublime so far. Coming into the tournament, he was widely criticized for his sub-par performances in the previous world cup, with some going as far as saying that he cannot be compared to Diego unless he were to dominate the international scene in similar fashion.
Who knows what will unfold over the next couple of weeks, but so far he's been imperious. There will be those who find faults in anything he does. I suspect that even if he were to lead the Argentines to the cup, some of his detractors would claim that he still hadn't dominated the tournament in the same way that Maradona did in 1986. He cannot do anything about that. But for the sake of his legacy, I hope that he keeps this up. If this is the final blot on a glittering body of work, then he's well on his way to fixing that.
 
Rio Ferdinand finally speaking the truth about Lionel 'humble team-player' Messi.
Nice to see somebody on TV finally acknowledge and challenge that.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
What did he say ?
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Nothing major, but:

There was a piece about Maradona with an interview, to advertise the Argentina game tomorrow. And the inevitable Maradona versus Messi conversation occurred.

They all agreed that a World cup win would elevate Messi to beyond anyone. And then Murphy stated how it's amazing how Messi does all he does while being such a humble team-player. Adding that Ronaldo's work ethic for the team can be called into question unlike Messi's.

Rio said he wasn't sure about that, and that he thinks Messi just appears that way, but he really wants to be main man as much as Ronaldo, and he pretty much demands the ball whenever it suits him, not necessarily the team. The rest didn't really know what to say in response.

Just nice to get a bit of balance from a pundit.
 
Speak said:
Nothing major, but:

There was a piece about Maradona with an interview, to advertise the Argentina game tomorrow. And the inevitable Maradona versus Messi conversation occurred.

They all agreed that a World cup win would elevate Messi to beyond anyone. And then Murphy stated how it's amazing how Messi does all he does while being such a humble team-player. Adding that Ronaldo's work ethic for the team can be called into question unlike Messi's.

Rio said he wasn't sure about that, and that he thinks Messi just appears that way, but he really wants to be main man as much as Ronaldo, and he pretty much demands the ball whenever it suits him, not necessarily the team. The rest didn't really know what to say in response.
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so in your opinion, Ferdinand was "finally speaking the truth about Lionel 'humble team-player' Messi"? how Speak, how?
 
marcosdeto said:
so in your opinion, Ferdinand was "finally speaking the truth about Lionel 'humble team-player' Messi"? how Speak, how?
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'Finally speaking the truth' may have been over-dramatising it (it's obviously not newsworthy stuff), but usually everyone just peddles the whole 'Messi is humble and a great team player, unlike Ronaldo' line. It's nice to see someone actually tell it how it is.

And I'm not somebody who prefers either of Ronaldo or Messi.
 
Ferdinand seemed to imply that Messi being at the centre of everything for his club an national team displayed ego. Not as if everthing goes through him because he's better than his team mates?

I thought he was talking crap and just sticking up for his mate which I can understand to an extent, it reminded me of when he started whinging when folk criticized Rooney only to be promptly put in his place by Shearer and Henry.
 
There is a bit of a mythology built up about Messi, such as how hard-working he is, a reputation built up on the basis of some pressing and chasing back five years ago. Refreshing to hear Ferdinand challenge it, albeit his point about "demanding the ball" wasn't really the best example.
 
Snake Plissken said:
Ferdinand seemed to imply that Messi being at the centre of everything for his club an national team displayed ego. Not as if everthing goes through him because he's better than his team mates?

I thought he was talking crap and just sticking up for his mate which I can understand to an extent, it reminded me of when he started whinging when folk criticized Rooney only to be promptly put in his place by Shearer and Henry.
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Ronaldo was barely mentioned, and even if he wasn't, it probably wouldn't have stopped him saying what he said. His point was that Messi is not some magical, ultra-humble, team-player who's willing to sacrifice himself for the team. He's very much after the same headlines.

There are people who'd tell you that Ronaldo would probably rather Portugal went out in a semi-final where he scored a hat-trick, but they still lost than win the whole thing with him not doing anything and not getting the credit. If that was true (that's a debate in itself) then the same can be said for Messi. He's just better at hiding his desire to be the main man.

There's also the myth about Messi being a hard worker off the ball and Ronaldo not.
Edit: Anyway this thread is starting to go the way the thread shouldn't be.
 
Speak said:
Ronaldo was barely mentioned, and even if he wasn't, it probably wouldn't have stopped him saying what he said. His point was that Messi is not some magical, ultra-humble, team-player who's willing to sacrifice himself for the team. He's very much after the same headlines.

There are people who'd tell you that Ronaldo would probably rather Portugal went out in a semi-final where he scored a hat-trick, but they still lost than win the whole thing with him not doing anything and not getting the credit. If that was true (that's a debate in itself) then the same can be said for Messi. He's just better at hiding his desire to be the main man.
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it's fair to offer these opinions, but i don't think there's any evidence that there's any truth to these allegations at all, like literally zero proof. It's all speculation.

Even if you want to make the case that Messi isn't an angel like ... people make him out to be? (i haven't seen any of these views or people...)... it's ridiculous to put him on ronaldo's consistent levels of diva and conceited petulance on the field.

Messi is a hungry passionate player with emotions like everyone else, is what you're basically saying. everything else is a twist, or mere interpretation.


also
but they still lost than win the whole thing with him not doing anything and not getting the credit. If that was true (that's a debate in itself) then the same can be said for Messi. He's just better at hiding his desire to be the main man.
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is this even english? i can't understand what you're saying at all, could you clarify that bit.

Gio said:
There is a bit of a mythology built up about Messi, such as how hard-working he is, a reputation built up on the basis of some pressing and chasing back five years ago. Refreshing to hear Ferdinand challenge it, albeit his point about "demanding the ball" wasn't really the best example.
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There's also the myth about Messi being a hard worker off the ball.
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i think this is very much true, his work ethic was a bit overrated in his early years, it was mostly just a principle of guardiola's intense pressing.
 
Malva said:
it's fair to offer these opinions, but i don't think there's any evidence that there's any truth to these allegations at all, like literally zero proof. It's all speculation.
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I didn't say there was proof. I said that there are people who'd say that Ronaldo would rather lose as the main man (scoring goals and getting credit above anyone else) than win as one of the guys who did nothing and gets little or no credit. And there definitely are plenty of people who would say (and have said) that about Ronaldo.

also

is this even english? i can't understand what you're saying at all, could you clarify that bit.
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It's not really hard to understand. Try not chopping the beginning off. I've edited slightly and added a bracket.:

There are people who'd tell you that Ronaldo would probably rather Portugal went out in a semi-final where he scored a hat-trick (but they still lost) than win the whole tournament with him not doing anything and not getting the credit. If that was true (that's a debate in itself) then the same can be said for Messi. He's just better at hiding his desire to be the main man.

Anyway it's turning into a Ronaldo versus Messi debate (partly my fault) so we might as well just agree to disagree.
 
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Speak said:
'Finally speaking the truth' may have been over-dramatising it (it's obviously not newsworthy stuff), but usually everyone just peddles the whole 'Messi is humble and a great team player, unlike Ronaldo' line. It's nice to see someone actually tell it how it is.

And I'm not somebody who prefers either of Ronaldo or Messi.
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How is that "telling it like it is", exactly? It holds just as much weight as those who say "Messi is humble and a great team player, unlike Ronaldo". How aren't those people telling it like it is?
 
Speak said:
Ronaldo was barely mentioned, and even if he wasn't, it probably wouldn't have stopped him saying what he said. His point was that Messi is not some magical, ultra-humble, team-player who's willing to sacrifice himself for the team. He's very much after the same headlines.

There are people who'd tell you that Ronaldo would probably rather Portugal went out in a semi-final where he scored a hat-trick, but they still lost than win the whole thing with him not doing anything and not getting the credit. If that was true (that's a debate in itself) then the same can be said for Messi. He's just better at hiding his desire to be the main man.

There's also the myth about Messi being a hard worker off the ball and Ronaldo not.
Edit: Anyway this thread is starting to go the way the thread shouldn't be.
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Murphy said 'The difference between him and ronaldo". So Ferdinand was directly responding to that comment in defence of Ronaldo. I don't think he's an angel, but people are really desperate to get dirt on him, it's went from photoshopping pictures of him with a stripper to lambasting him for 'ignoring' a little kid he didn't see in the tunnel.
 
When you have the talent Messi has you have every right to be berty big bollox... but he isn't. Barcelona and Argentina make him the centre of attention because he's the most gifted footballer since Diego Maradona, and he plays for the team rather than himself. You will never ever see a player like him again who can score 73 times in a single season whilst laying on a further 30 goals for his team mates, and that excludes the numerous chances spurned by Villa, Pedro and co.

For Argentina he's been slagged off for not replicating his form... yet his assist to game ratio is just as good as his Barcelona form. It goes under the radar as the modern game has become all about stats. Take them away from Ronaldo and he'd be slagged off just as much as Nani is, abeit Ronaldo is considerably more consistent. His preening and pretentious behaviour on the pitch and comments like he's just made about his Portugal team mates is why he's deemed the big ego in the football world.

Why would anyone listen to camel lips anyway? He's a complete and utter speng.
 
at least the ones that claim that Ronaldo is somewhat egotiscital, speak for what they see when he plays,

we've come to the stupidness to cling to any word said about messi, to cast some shadows over his humble and unselfish image

of course, now the ones saying that there's no proof of that, are going to be called "Messi fanbois"
 
TheShedEnd said:
When you have the talent Messi has you have every right to be berty big bollox... but he isn't. Barcelona and Argentina make him the centre of attention because he's the most gifted footballer since Diego Maradona, and he plays for the team rather than himself. You will never ever see a player like him again who can score 73 times in a single season whilst laying on a further 30 goals for his team mates, and that excludes the numerous chances spurned by Villa, Pedro and co.

For Argentina he's been slagged off for not replicating his form... yet his assist to game ratio is just as good as his Barcelona form. It goes under the radar as the modern game has become all about stats. Take them away from Ronaldo and he'd be slagged off just as much as Nani is, abeit Ronaldo is considerably more consistent. His preening and pretentious behaviour on the pitch and comments like he's just made about his Portugal team mates is why he's deemed the big ego in the football world.

Why would anyone listen to camel lips anyway? He's a complete and utter speng.
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As much as Messi setting up goals may suggest he's a great team player do you think he's much more likely than Ronaldo to pass to a team-mate in a better position in the last minute of the World cup final?

Messi is a unique talent, he played in a unique team. And this talent coupled with the possession style if his team and dominance will result in lots of assists. It doesn't mean he plays more for the team.

And he doesn't in my opinion. Neither does Ronaldo (to a greater extent than Messi), but Messi's had the platform (via a very unique team) to disguise it.
You obviously disagree, and we'll be going in circles.
 
Speak said:
I didn't say there was proof. I said that there are people who'd say that Ronaldo would rather lose as the main man (scoring goals and getting credit above anyone else) than win as one of the guys who did nothing and gets little or no credit. And there definitely are plenty of people who would say (and have said) that about Ronaldo.


It's not really hard to understand. Try not chopping the beginning off. I've edited slightly and added a bracket.:

There are people who'd tell you that Ronaldo would probably rather Portugal went out in a semi-final where he scored a hat-trick (but they still lost) than win the whole tournament with him not doing anything and not getting the credit. If that was true (that's a debate in itself) then the same can be said for Messi. He's just better at hiding his desire to be the main man.

Anyway it's turning into a Ronaldo versus Messi debate (partly my fault) so we might as well just agree to disagree.
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Ronaldo is unfairly criticised at times but for a player as good and as popular as Messi i don't really see that much diva behaviour. Compare him with Ibrahimovic for example
 
Speak said:
As much as Messi setting up chances may suggest he's a great team player do you think he's much more likely than Ronaldo to pass to a team-mate in a better position in the last minute of the World cup final?

Messi is a unique talent, he played in a unique team. And this talent coupled with the possession style if his team and dominance will result in lots of assists. It doesn't mean he plays more for the team.

And he doesn't in my opinion. Neither does Ronaldo (to a greater extent than Messi), but Messi's had the platform (via a very unique team) to disguise it.
You obviously disagree, and we'll be going in circles.
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If Ronaldo was playing for Barca he still wouldn't be as good as Messi is in setting up his teammates

He doesn't have that passing gift that Messi does.
 
Speak said:
As much as Messi setting up goals may suggest he's a great team player do you think he's much more likely than Ronaldo to pass to a team-mate in a better position in the last minute of the World cup final?

Messi is a unique talent, he played in a unique team. And this talent coupled with the possession style if his team and dominance will result in lots of assists. It doesn't mean he plays more for the team.

And he doesn't in my opinion. Neither does Ronaldo (to a greater extent than Messi), but Messi's had the platform (via a very unique team) to disguise it.
You obviously disagree, and we'll be going in circles.
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Compare the number of shots between each player, that'll tell you all you need to know. The number of times Messi gets into a good shooting position but passes it instead is actually frustrating at times. It's positions Ronaldo shoots from and has alot of success with.

In a World Cup final, how many players get to play in one? Depends entirely on the scenario. As for the teams, Real are the best counter attacking side in the world, the players all look for Ronaldo, but again, how many times do you see him pass when he's 25 yards from goal with a bit of space to run into? There's a reason he's shooting ratio is so high.

Of all the players in the world to call egotistical/selfish or whatever, it aint Messi, and I find it astonishing it's even being bought up.
 
Speak said:
As much as Messi setting up goals may suggest he's a great team player do you think he's much more likely than Ronaldo to pass to a team-mate in a better position in the last minute of the World cup final?
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100% yes.
 
Gio said:
There is a bit of a mythology built up about Messi, such as how hard-working he is, a reputation built up on the basis of some pressing and chasing back five years ago. Refreshing to hear Ferdinand challenge it, albeit his point about "demanding the ball" wasn't really the best example.
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You're right on of course, but I'd still like to highlight that for a player of his "talent level" and prestige (let's remember he was already being touted as among Europe's best as early as 2007) he still used to be among the exceptions wrt work rate/ethic (until 2011). Compare him to previous Barça legends -- say, the likes of Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Stoichkov, Laudrup etc. -- and there's a difference clear as night and day. In my opinion, anyway. Maybe that had to do with the fact that he started out as a wide player so already had some sort of defensive ethic drilled in, albeit nothing exceptionnal compared to the average wide player of course. Guardiola's use of pressing probably skewed views a bit too much thereafter... in fact I'd say there's already a marked decline in his defensive work after 2009/10 (which is still one of the reasons I rate that season as one of his individual best; his action range on the pitch back in those days was really something to behold for a forward).
 
TheShedEnd said:
Compare the number of shots between each player, that'll tell you all you need to know. The number of times Messi gets into a good shooting position but passes it instead is actually frustrating at times. It's positions Ronaldo shoots from and has alot of success with.

In a World Cup final, how many players get to play in one? Depends entirely on the scenario. As for the teams, Real are the best counter attacking side in the world, the players all look for Ronaldo, but again, how many times do you see him pass when he's 25 yards from goal with a bit of space to run into? There's a reason he's shooting ratio is so high.

Of all the players in the world to call egotistical/selfish or whatever, it aint Messi, and I find it astonishing it's even being bought up.
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Shamwow said:
100% yes.
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marcosdeto said:
92 minutes:

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I'll consider myself told.
 
Of course Rio is going to stick up for his mate, he's biased not "balanced"

Danny Murphy didn't play with either, so surely is more balanced unless you think he's a "hater"?

I thought their was going to be bans for people who brought Ronaldo into this thread, where are the mods?
 
Snake Plissken said:
Murphy said 'The difference between him and ronaldo". So Ferdinand was directly responding to that comment in defence of Ronaldo. I don't think he's an angel, but people are really desperate to get dirt on him, it's went from photoshopping pictures of him with a stripper to lambasting him for 'ignoring' a little kid he didn't see in the tunnel.
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It's gone from 2 extremes.

Not to mention the tax scandal stories. I don't know why the media have changed their opinion on both players recently.. to print only negative about Messi.

In hindsight, when was the last time we read such a scandal about the other one? years ago.. it's not fair or "balanced"

Messi is having a good World Cup, and it seems some people can't accept it and have to find a reason to discredit him, in anyway possible..

Shut it, Rio.
 
Banana007 said:
Of course Rio is going to stick up for his mate, he's biased not "balanced"

Danny Murphy didn't play with either, so surely is more balanced unless you think he's a "hater"?

I thought their was going to be bans for people who brought Ronaldo into this thread, where are the mods?
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ooopsy :nervous:
 
Haven't really seen this much individual brilliance carrying a team in 1 world cup, let alone just after 3 group games.

Just to clarify, the first world cup I can remember was USA'94.

3 of his 4 goals were absolute belters to boot :drool:
 
Haddock said:
I'll tell you why. It's the same reason the greatest players in other sports are often compared to the other greats of their era ,who even though they are a rung below are always brought into the conversation. Usually pure jealousy or the fact that said 'best player' is constantly praised. A great example would be Sachin Tendulkar, the cricket batsman.He is deified in India to the point of embarrassment, but he's also that good. He gets compared to lesser players all the time, check out any Guardian thread on him or any Cricinfo piece and most of the comments are "...very good,not as good as so and so" , or "overrated , X has a higher batting average, or Y scored a century at lords".

I too had the same problem with Messi.

This is how I thought of him initially:

I am envious and I hate the fact that this guy the best in the world doesn't play for my club. Why can't he play for my team? Why do I have to worship at his altar? He isn't that good.. just supported by Xavi/Iniesta. Without them he's nothing. But then I saw him play as a teenager, destroy my team for twenty minutes, I loved his speed and power but also the subtle turns and the ridiculous elegance, and then suddenly I thought think 'but wait I hate this prick.'
I started to look for loopholes in his near flawless technique. He can't do anything with his right, can't head (and then he goes and does it against my team in a final ,out jumping your all time favourite 6'6 giant of a player). Two years later he's back ,better , he's done it again. Lucky goal I shout this time and maybe it's true but he's still made two of the best defenders around look pretty average.

Now I accept how good he is.He has this constant relentless need to improve.Every year from the time he was 20 he added something to his game. First it was goals , then acceleration, consistency, freekicks, his vision and range of passing, unselfish play. Now the only thing left is adapting his game into his thirties. But It's not about the goals, it's never been about the goals. Even if he scored 15 instead of 50 a season he would be the best around. His judicious use of his speed and skill, the space and extra 2 seconds he finds on the pitch is what sets him apart. What is so striking about him and Tendulkar is that they can be the best around at two or three positions in their sport. Even if he was a bit of an arse to Ibra and Villa I can forgive him.

I was wrong and I hate to admit it about Messi, he is clearly the best player I've ever seen in Football. I accepted that over the last 2 years, I probably regret that I haven't seen him play as much as I would have liked to, because of midnight Barca games and power fluctuations. I now love watching him play even though some part of me is sickened when he scores a beauty like he did last night or waltz past three players and casually put it in the back of the net like he did when he played Madrid in the semis. I want to shout that the art of defending is dead but I know that's not true. Messi is just that good. I missed the Bosnia game because I had an exam. I got to see him play yesterday and I hope I get to see more of him over the next few weeks. As I get older I want to watch the greatest players of the future generations and enjoy them without the irrational need to knock them or hate them like I did with Messi. I want to go 'HOW DID HE DO THAT?" and gawp instead of saying 'feck it the opposition are rubbish". The same thing with Suarez, I hate the fact Liverpool have him, despite all his antics he's a smashing player and that's why I really want someone like that on my team.

God gave Messi more talent than most and Messi held up his side of the bargain. I can't hate a man who could have coasted and become a bit of a wastrel but became an all time great. To have little talent and maximize it like Gary Neville earns my respect, so does having it all and still persevering.
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You are a beauty. Let's enjoy the game.
 
Speak said:
As much as Messi setting up goals may suggest he's a great team player do you think he's much more likely than Ronaldo to pass to a team-mate in a better position in the last minute of the World cup final?

Messi is a unique talent, he played in a unique team. And this talent coupled with the possession style if his team and dominance will result in lots of assists. It doesn't mean he plays more for the team.

And he doesn't in my opinion. Neither does Ronaldo (to a greater extent than Messi), but Messi's had the platform (via a very unique team) to disguise it.
You obviously disagree, and we'll be going in circles.
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You were saying? :lol::lol:
 
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