MEN: Raiola says Pogba/Mou relationship repaired

[Marcelinho87]

You imply that we would have performed just as well in that set up, had Pogba played, I disagree.
I think he would've reduced the intensity we showed and would have had a negative impact.

I think you forget the impact he had on our counter attacking against Arsenal last season.

Had we played Fulham with Pogba in the side and same setup we would have won comfortably too.

 

[redmanx]

Pobga is a talented player but come on now. Robbo was a fecking force of nature and a leader Pogba could only dream of being...

Pogba isn't fit to clean Robbos boots.

 

[redmanx]

I can see where you're coming from with the comparison but honestly Robbo was a whole different class. The man carried the whole team let alone the midfield, while the jury is still out whether Pogba can even play in a midfield 2.

Robbo is not only a United legend, he's a football legend, and will be remembered and revered as long as the game is played. Pogbas just a legend in his own mind and lunchtime.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

So what’s our excuse for being midtable with the second best squad in the league? Paul Pogba being ‘lazy’

Typical deflection - the discussion is about pogba not the entire team. Mourinho is responsible for the poor resuls cos he picks the team and tactics, but that is a separate discussion.

Please stick to the topic at hand and justify how mourinho is responsible for pogba being inconsistent or losing the ball when doing dilly tricks?

 

[Mainoldo]

Typical deflection - the discussion is about pogba not the entire team. Mourinho is responsible for the poor resuls cos he picks the team and tactics, but that is a separate discussion.

Please stick to the topic at hand and justify how mourinho is responsible for pogba being inconsistent or losing the ball when doing dilly tricks?

The deflection is you trying to be smart and isolating incidents. I don’t really care about him doing tricks and losing the ball. I like the tricks rather see that than a crap lost sideways pass.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

No clearly it’s all Paul Pogba’s fault. His lack of running is costing us from winning the league. Once he starts running again we can switch back to the fact we have no decent Center backs.

Why not answer the simple question instead of wasting time trying to muddy the waters.

if mourinho's demands are not spectacular, then why is pogba's failure to meet expectations mourinho,'s fault.

We have a lot of mediocre player, but to a large extent, most are playing to the best of their abilities. it just that their abilities are not good enough or in the case of matic et al, age and mileage has simply caught up with them.

Pogba is the only one that frequently fails to deliver at anything close to the level he is capable of.

 

[devilish]

Typical deflection - the discussion is about pogba not the entire team. Mourinho is responsible for the poor resuls cos he picks the team and tactics, but that is a separate discussion.

Please stick to the topic at hand and justify how mourinho is responsible for pogba being inconsistent or losing the ball when doing dilly tricks?

Football is a team effort though so you can't just focus on 1 player. We should be asking if pogba is the only player whose underperforming. If the answer is yes then its his fault. If most of the team is underperforming then its the manager's fault

 

[Patrick08]

You should go and look at the quality of juve squad vs the rest of serie A and come back and post when Pogba played for liverpool?

The deflection is you trying to be smart and isolating incidents. I don’t really care about him doing tricks and losing the ball. I like the tricks rather see that than a crap lost sideways pass.

Nah, loosing the ball is a no go zone for players who wants to be top midfielders.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

The deflection is you trying to be smart and isolating incidents. I don’t really care about him doing tricks and losing the ball. I like the tricks rather see that than a crap lost sideways pass.

then hope you also like it when those tricks cause a loss of rhythm and/or tempi in our play, or worse still, expose our defence and cost us a goal.

But typical of people like you, you would be rushing to blame mourinho for it.

 

[Patrick08]

Football is a team effort though so you can't just focus on 1 player. We should be asking if pogba is the only player whose underperforming. If the answer is yes then its his fault. If most of the team is underperforming then its the manager's fault

Both of them are at fault, I can bet these very same mistakes will cost him and us big under a different manager as well.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Football is a team effort though so you can't just focus on 1 player. We should be asking if pogba is the only player whose underperforming. If the answer is yes then its his fault. If most of the team is underperforming then its the manager's fault

most of the players are not underperfoming, they are just mediocre or do you think lukaku bad touch is him underperforming? or age catching up to matic, sanchez, valencia etc

 

[devilish]

most of the players are not underperfoming, they are just mediocre or do you think lukaku bad touch is him underperforming? or age catching up to matic, sanchez, valencia etc

We spent 75m on lukaku, 40m on Matic, 90m on Pogba and we are paying stellar salaries for sanchez. All players mou had brought to the club. He was also given money to bring in other players as well to replace valencia and co but chose to blew it on a midfielder he barely plays and 2 cbs he doesn't deem to be first team level anymore

So either mou had brought the wrong players to the club or he is mismanaging them. Either way the buck stops with the manager

 

[devilish]

Both of them are at fault, I can bet these very same mistakes will cost him and us big under a different manager as well.

That's the thing. Pogba doesn't commit as many mistakes under different managers. Same thing about most players we have who used to perform better under different managers

 

[Patrick08]

That's the thing. Pogba doesn't commit as many mistakes under different managers. Same thing about most players we have who used to perform better under different managers

Not in every game, but against top opponents the same mistakes pop up which can decide trophies and titles or derbies. He made mistakes at juventus as well, the thing was at juventus not many teams had quality to punish them and juventus also had players to recover those. You don't always have the ball against top opponents .It's a learning curve for him, now its upon him to decide weather to improve or ignore the lesson mourinho wants him to learn with or without him.

Though out of all the talented midfielders I have not seen a player who can be so good but lacks the midfield basics like pogba.

 

[Ish]

I think the murky part of this debate is that if you say something negative about Pogba, the Mourinho-out brigade automatically sees it as a defense of Mourinho.

Maybe that’s the case with some, but I think there are plenty who’s able to criticize Pogba & still desperate want rid of that sour faced balloon, Mourinho.

For what it’s worth - I’m actually of the “I hope we keep Pogba and see what a new manager (Mourinho out!) gets out of him” opinion. But there’s no denying he’s underperforming. They both have to shoulder some blame for that, but also, Pogba is a professional. No place for downing tools when you’re earning top whack.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

Pogba is so wank but I really do feel like a change of system and a fresh start would do him and everyone else alot of good.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

what I hate the most on the cafe is the prevailing notion that good to great player can never go through a simple bad spell off form. There always has to be something nefarious and someone to blame.

 

[JPRouve]

what I hate the most on the cafe is the prevailing notion that good to great player can never go through a simple bad spell off form. There always has to be something nefarious and someone to blame.

Pretty much, there is no way to pretend that Pogba hasn't been poor since late November but two things, he was injured for almost a month and players have bad spells. I could also add that the majority of our players are currently out of form.

 

[Judas]

Mixture of form, the general atmosphere around the club, the fact our season is a shambles, it can't help. He still shows flashes of quality even when we're at our worst, he did it against last night.

 

[Mainoldo]

Nah, loosing the ball is a no go zone for players who wants to be top midfielders.

Your joking right?

 

[devilish]

Not in every game, but against top opponents the same mistakes pop up which can decide trophies and titles or derbies. He made mistakes at juventus as well, the thing was at juventus not many teams had quality to punish them and juventus also had players to recover those. You don't always have the ball against top opponents .It's a learning curve for him, now its upon him to decide weather to improve or ignore the lesson mourinho wants him to learn with or without him.

Though out of all the talented midfielders I have not seen a player who can be so good but lacks the midfield basics like pogba.

He was/is a key player at Juve and France. I am not saying he's perfect and playing with united is quite tough considering we are used with the likes of scholes, keane, robson and co. However everyone is underperforming under mou so seriously this is not just a problem with pogba

 

[Mainoldo]

then hope you also like it when those tricks cause a loss of rhythm and/or tempi in our play, or worse still, expose our defence and cost us a goal.

But typical of people like you, you would be rushing to blame mourinho for it.

What rhythm what tempo? Expose our defence to what? They never pass the half way line.

 

[Judas]

Just seems a bit mad to have it in for an underperforming Pogba when our entire team is underperforming.

 

[Patrick08]

However everyone is underperforming under mou so seriously this is not just a problem with pogba

Yup, that's the reason I held them both responsible and mourinho's share in it is greater than that of pogba as others are poor as well Namely Matic who is held to completely different standards.

Still, pogba has to do his fair share himself, and downing tools would do him no good. If he gives everything on the pitch fans will notice it regardless of the results, but it isn't looking that way and hence he was also booed by the supporters at oldtrafford.

 

[Patrick08]

Your joking right?

No, how many times have you seen scholes, xavi, bastian, iniesta, pirlo, Modric, david silva lose the ball in the game which results in direct counter attack in the game and then do not put an effort to gain it back? Playmakers are not supposed to lose the ball while the team is on the attack.

 

[Mainoldo]

No, how many times have you seen scholes, xavi, bastian, iniesta, pirlo, Modric, david silva lose the ball in the game which results in direct counter attack in the game and then do not put an effort to gain it back? Playmakers are not supposed to lose the ball while the team is on the attack.

In 99. Ryan Giggs scored one of the best Fa Cup goals of all time. Watch how he got the ball.

You name all these players but all have given the ball away in good areas that have started counter attacks. Your asking for the impossible.

 

[Patrick08]

In 99. Ryan Giggs scored one of the best Fa Cup goals of all time. Watch how he got the ball.

You name all these players but all have given the ball away in good areas that have started counter attacks. Your asking for the impossible.

Well that's the difference between, top top players and good or average ones. One has to minimize the mistakes.

 

[Mainoldo]

Well that's the difference between, top top players and good or average ones. One has to minimize the mistakes.

Pogba makes minimal mistakes.. so what’s your point?

 

[devilish]

Yup, that's the reason I held them both responsible and mourinho's share in it is greater than that of pogba as others are poor as well Namely Matic who is held to completely different standards.

Still, pogba has to do his fair share himself, and downing tools would do him no good. If he gives everything on the pitch fans will notice it regardless of the results, but it isn't looking that way and hence he was also booed by the supporters at oldtrafford.

I don't. If he was the ONLY player whose underperforming then its the player's fault. If the club hasn't financially backed the manager then its the owner's fault. However if a club spent 400m to support the manager's vision + most players are underperforming then its the manager's fault especially if those players are still doing fine with their national team

Saying that people should still give their 100% despite being badly managed and abused by their manager is nice in theory but it failes miserably in practice. If tactics and motivation didn't matter then we could do away from paying millions to top tier managers and hire a trained monkey instead (phil nev?)

 

[Patrick08]

Pogba makes minimal mistakes.. so what’s your point?

You should have seen Modric, the current balloo dor for comparison then.

Besides he does make lots of mistakes on the ball, positionally and also defensive wise.

 

[Oldyella]

Pogba makes minimal mistakes.. so what’s your point?

Especially given he passing options he usually has and the demand on him to create given the quality around him.

 

[Patrick08]

I don't. If he was the ONLY player whose underperforming then its the player's fault. If the club hasn't financially backed the manager then its the owner's fault. However if a club spent 400m to support the manager's vision + most players are underperforming then its the manager's fault especially if those players are still doing fine with their national team

Saying that people should still give their 100% despite being badly managed and abused by their manager is nice in theory but it failes miserably in practice. If tactics and motivation didn't matter then we could do away from paying millions to top tier managers and hire a trained monkey instead (phil nev?)

We are literally on the same side of the coin regarding mourinho, but yours take is pogba needs no improvement in his game and effort and workrate he puts because he is not managed by Mourinho properly, hence that should be excused.

While mine is he still needs to improve his game on areas where he lacks despite mourinho managing him wrong way as that will make him a even better player for difficult circumstances and a better professional.

Downing tools is no answer to adversities he faces, he doesn't play for the money and for the club and manager he is supposed to play for the crowd that has come to watch him inside the stadium, and I won't like any player to put in a lethargic effort in front of me as a fan who would come to attend games in the stadium, as it's unprofessional.

I won't be happy at the manager to set up like that but I won't be happy to see lack of effort from the players as well. There is no space for lethargic effort in front of thousands of fans watching you.

 

[devilish]

We are literally on the same side of the coin regarding mourinho, but yours take is pogba needs no improvement in his game and effort and workrate he puts because he is not managed by Mourinho properly, hence that should be excused.

While mine is he still needs to improve his game on areas where he lacks despite mourinho managing him wrong way as that will make him a even better player for difficult circumstances and a better professional.

Downing tools is no answer to adversities he faces, he doesn't play for the money and for the club and manager he is supposed to play for the crowd that has come to watch him inside the stadium, and I won't like any player to put in a lethargic effort in front of me as a fan who would come to attend games in the stadium, as it's unprofessional.

I won't be happy at the manager to set up like that but I won't be happy to see lack of effort from the players as well. There is no space for lethargic effort in front of thousands of fans watching you.

Who said so? I am not liking what I'm seeing from Pogba but same can be said about 3/4 of our squad. I mean look at this squad. Lukaku had grown fat, Pogba is back to his U17 football's showboating, the CBs are all over the place, Matic and Sanchez seem lost, Fred is playing horribly, Dalot is constantly injured. That doesn't look like a squad that is being managed adequately. Even our tactics seem so naive. I mean our plan b is to put Fellaini upfront and go route one. FFS that's something the Turnip would come out with not the supposed best manager in the world


Id say lets get rid of this virus first and see what happens. If Pogba keeps playing badly even under the new manager then his arse should be the first to be kicked out of OT

 

[Needham]

No, come one, this guy should earn more than a nurse.

 

[el3mel]

Spending 90m on Pogba was a terrible decision all things considered. No one can question his quality, but he only plays consistently well when he has loads of world class surrrounding him to cover for him. These kind of players you only buy when you have a top squad and needs to inject more quality to complete it, not when you have a shite squad needing a rebuild without an open chequebook.

We spent 90m on a player who needs farther 250m to perform consistently. Terrible decision. We could have used these 90m on other more players who would have benefit us more in this period. Pogba will be great in Madrid, Barca or PSG but not in a team who needs a rebuild and is trying to build the team around someone.

 

[Butty19]

Spending 90m on Pogba was a terrible decision all things considered. No one can question his quality, but he only plays consistently well when he has loads of world class surrrounding him to cover for him. These kind of players you only buy when you have a top squad and needs to inject more quality to complete it, not when you have a shite squad needing a rebuild without an open chequebook.

We spent 90m on a player who needs farther 250m to perform consistently. Terrible decision. We could have used these 90m on other more players who would have benefit us more in this period. Pogba will be great in Madrid, Barca or PSG but in a team who needs a rebuild and is trying to build the team around someone.

Was it terrible from a commercial point of view though? which is sadly the way the club seems to be run nowadays.

 

[el3mel]

Was it terrible from a commercial point of view though? which is sadly the way the club seems to be run nowadays.

Well surely not. You're right I forgot the club's primary targets.

 

[Patrick08]

Who said so? I am not liking what I'm seeing from Pogba but same can be said about 3/4 of our squad. I mean look at this squad. Lukaku had grown fat, Pogba is back to his U17 football's showboating, the CBs are all over the place, Matic and Sanchez seem lost, Fred is playing horribly, Dalot is constantly injured. That doesn't look like a squad that is being managed adequately. Even our tactics seem so naive. I mean our plan b is to put Fellaini upfront and go route one. FFS that's something the Turnip would come out with not the supposed best manager in the world


Id say lets get rid of this virus first and see what happens. If Pogba keeps playing badly even under the new manager then his arse should be the first to be kicked out of OT

Well that's what I meant with the quote that he is biased and holding others to different standards. A lot of players commit more mistakes than pogba but still do not get pointed out and benched.

 

[Penna]

Please keep this thread on-topic, everyone. If you want to discuss Pogba's performance, use that thread.

 

[Patrick08]

Well surely not. You're right I forgot the club's primary targets.

Raises a huge doubt in me, weather the manager is really in charge or our transfer business or not.

And wonder that's the reason some managers have rejected the opportunity to come here before we went on to sign these.