There were reports that Mourinho wanted him at Chelsea, Raiola said that I believe so I'll guess it was agreed between both Mourinho and Ed. Problem is I think Pogba would have worked well for this Chelsea side as they were a title winning one and only needed to inject more quality, but he was the wrong choice for us in our state. No question of his ability, but we needed to use money to build a team. Mourinho and Ed chose to focuse the spending on 2-3 big players and build the team around them ( Pogba and Zlatan/Lukaku). That ended up being a terrible decision.
MEN: Raiola says Pogba/Mou relationship repaired
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
There were reports that Mourinho wanted him at Chelsea, Raiola said that I believe so I'll guess it was agreed between both Mourinho and Ed. Problem is I think Pogba would have worked well for this Chelsea side as they were a title winning one and only needed to inject more quality, but he was the wrong choice for us in our state. No question of his ability, but we needed to use money to build a team. Mourinho and Ed chose to focuse the spending on 2-3 big players and build the team around them ( Pogba and Zlatan/Lukaku). That ended up being a terrible decision.
I did World Cup final. Pogba was dabing with the trophy. After an assist and goal. What was Modric doing?
Won the golden ball with a relatively poor team than France.
Should stick to thread topic now, or we will get negative points.
Underperforming is not judged by how much you paid but whether the player is performing below what their normal level
- Lukaku is not performing any worse than he was at everton.
- Matic did well in his first season, but has declined with age and workload
- Sanchez has likely declined due to mileage
- lindelof was first choice before he got injured while we dont have the experience d CB required to pair with bailly (thank Ed for that)
- Fred has started about 50% of our games but to you that is barely playing.
- We have signed a new RB but cant sign a new LB cos Ed believes in Shaw
That leaves the Pogba and his inconsistencies.
Unfortunately for you, the buck literally stops with Ed as he is the one that hired the manager (and hasnt fired him) and also the one that negotiates the transfer fees that you are so quick to point at. But of course, the blame should be on Mourinho as if he is the one who approves how much we pay for a player. Mourinho was given money and yet Ed vetos signing - that is too funny!
Like it or not, the truth is that Mourinho wanted those players to some degree, but it is Ed that decided which of them.we bought and for how much. It was Ed that decided that Lukaku was worth 75-90m and that Toby was not worth whatever Levy was asking for. Good or bad, transfer fees are on Ed.
Oh that rhythm that is lost when Pogba decides to do some trick instead of playing the simple pass that keeps the move going (one of the reasons we looked better against fulham), or that threat our back line is exposed to when he loses the ball in midfield, more so when he is the most dispossessed midfielder in the PL.
All those players performed better at other clubs then with us, whom, may I remind you, were brought on Mourinho's reccomendation. The majority of those signings came from clubs who didn't need to sell which means that a huge fee was inevitable. That's something Mourinho must have known very well when recommending them, because we, as fans, know that too. Also I am not surprised if Ed vetoed lets say yet another 29 year old on ridiculous fees or some average defender whose rated 60m. Its a shame he didn't vetoed more of Mou's signings. Who knows maybe the special one would have jumped ship (or made to jump ship) before he'll actually doing it and we wouldn't be 8th after spending 400m on tripe.
Hopefully this nightmare will soon be over and we can start showing our own three fingers (kicked out from Real, sacked by Chelsea and sacked by us)
Evidence he’s the most dispossed midfielder in the PL?
If you enjoyed our B-tech attacking football against Fulham that’s on you. I prefer seeing good football. Anyone maybe next season we will have your way, no Pogba and more Mourinho.
Did better where? was Matic any better for Chelsea than he was for us last season? Lukaku averaged about 50% goal rate for everton and was about that for us last season or was it Mourinho that over fed him?
The excuse of clubs not needing to sell is just ridiculous when its obvious that Ed is poor at negotiating transfer fees. Did Everton not sign Keane for less than we were asked? Lukaku was going to Chelsea until we agreed to pay the fees that Chelsea were reluctant to meet. We couldnt get Morata for 60m but Chelsea signed him for less.
We were 2nd last season and would probably have been in a similar position if udiot Ed hadn't failed in summer transfers. He cant sell playera, pays excess wages and often overpays for what he gets. He did it with Mata and fellaini but now its Mourinho's fault.
This is the 3rd manager, so keep deluding yourself that our problem is with the manager when Ed is the only constant that has been making footballing decisions when he is clueless about the game
Go and check the stats - Pogba is the most dispossessed midfielder in the PL!
Doing flicks and losing the ball deep in your own half might be your idea of good football but its definitely not mine.
It doesn't seem it to me. He'll be gone soon,like Jose. I won't be too bothered,far too inconsistent to build a successful team around.
Show me. Seeing as you’ve looked for them.
You sound like the guys who use to cuss Ronaldo for doing too many stepovers. Failing to see his talent.
We don’t need to build a team around Pogba. We need to add tonhis quality instead of playing him next to Fellaini and Matic.
We've been trying. Nothing is working.
Jose’s not working. That’s it.
Have we really? Ask yourself what are Pogba's deficiencies and then see how our other midfielders cover them up.
I am not defending woodward in any way. His lack of football knowledge leave him prone to choose the wrong managers and to get screwed by them again and again as they demand the ridiculous. There's a reason why no big club had hired moyes before, why no properly run club had ever got close to the mercenary and why lvg was rotting in an old man's job (ie the national team) before we signed him up. Unfortunately someone whose not savvy in football matters wouldn't know that. There's no denying that Woodward needs help and a DOF is now needed more then ever
However i find the extent you go on defending mourinho as disturbing. You totally ignore that mourinho is 'managing' a 400m+ rated team to 8th place, a team btw which was expensively assembled by players he wanted. Its not woodward's fault that the guy seem to struggle in motivating his own players or to come out alternative tactics to crack opposition up. What was plan b? Ah yes, moving fellaini upfront. Thats quite revolutionary isn't it?
Now if you think we could get the likes of matic, pogba, sanchez and lukaku on peanuts then there is nothing else to say
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Pogba's problem: being asked to do a job that your entire career and natural abilities up to now have not been prepared for. It's the same for Lakaku.
We have a manager that has his way of playing... We used to have a manager that allowed our players to play to their way of playing.
It's football style vs footballer style.
Jose purchases players to try to fit them into his philosophy, Manchester United used to buy players that already fit the club's philosophy. It's a simple difference in approach that has a very significant affect on the outcome i.e. The football.
The real question is why Jose bought Pogba from Juventus, because he was so effective in his position and role, and then doesn't deploy him in that position or role... It's like buying a Ferrari to do the school run when you have 4 children. Makes no sense at all.
We have a manager that has his way of playing... We used to have a manager that allowed our players to play to their way of playing.
It's football style vs footballer style.
Jose purchases players to try to fit them into his philosophy, Manchester United used to buy players that already fit the club's philosophy. It's a simple difference in approach that has a very significant affect on the outcome i.e. The football.
The real question is why Jose bought Pogba from Juventus, because he was so effective in his position and role, and then doesn't deploy him in that position or role... It's like buying a Ferrari to do the school run when you have 4 children. Makes no sense at all.
In the PL among AM and CM that have played more than 10 games Pogba has the 7th amount of key passes per 90 and the 2nd amount of assists per 90, he has the most successful dribbles per 90(and the second amount of unsuccessful ones).
When you actually look at his stats and his games, you notice something pretty clear. He is the number one creator in the team, he isn't playing as an all action midfielder which means that when it comes to defensive contribution we should turn our attention to his teammates who aren't doing anything in terms of creation and should logically cover for Pogba, the same way someone like Riquelme was covered by Senna and Josico or like Lampard had Essien and Makélélé behind him despite the fact that he was himself pretty solid, but Lampard wasn't expected to be a big defensive contributor.
Also Matic defensive stats are way too close to Pogba's when you consider the gulf between them in terms of attacking contribution.
Come on:
Pogba, world class before he came to play with Mou.
Sanchez, world class before he came to play with Mou.
Martial, our best performer until he played with Mou.
Lukaku, consistently 2nd/3rd top scorer in the League for a crap Everton team, before he came to play with Mou
And some point you just have to accept that the manager is a massive bellend, and perhaps we really don't know how good any of those players can be in a United shirt, until we get a new coach. I think discussing player performances under Mourinho is largely pointless. The only players who shine in his system, are the grafters.
Pogba, world class before he came to play with Mou.
Sanchez, world class before he came to play with Mou.
Martial, our best performer until he played with Mou.
Lukaku, consistently 2nd/3rd top scorer in the League for a crap Everton team, before he came to play with Mou
And some point you just have to accept that the manager is a massive bellend, and perhaps we really don't know how good any of those players can be in a United shirt, until we get a new coach. I think discussing player performances under Mourinho is largely pointless. The only players who shine in his system, are the grafters.
Agreed,butttt,i have to say when a new manager arrives it'll be the same mantra of "he needs time to evaluate his squad before selling/buying coz the last boss was a nightmare".
Next thing you know we've got Jones scoring own goals,Darmian still here,Martial still blowing hot and cold,Pog the same etc....
Fast forward 12months,a few changes,we still aren't properly challenging,boss is sacked.
Rinse and repeat.
By 2020 its a 7yr transition period.
First, our squad is not worth 400m+. We only paid so much cos woodward got shafted on many deals.You talk of Matic, Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez, but what about Fellaini, Mata Schneiderlin et al - were we not shafted on those as well? The kind of prices clubs attempt to sell players to us is clear evidence of how gullible they think Ed is. 90m for morata, 70m for maguire, 50m premium for one season of toby, 50m for perisic etc are ridiculous prices that no other club would entertain but why not when we pay 75m+ for lukaku, 40m for matic and still brag we have 100m to waste. If not for Mourinho Porto contacts, we would probably have gotten shafted on Dalot as well.
Second, Mourinho managed the same squad to second place last season but what did he get in return? Woodward vetoing his demands. what incentives does he then have to push ahead when at best he would just get his targets vetoed again. mourinho wants to compete for titles not finish top 4 and not getting players to help him do that is counter productive.
We need quality players added at CB, LB, DM, and RW, but instead of moving stealthily, we have Ed bragging we have money to spend. We have the worst starting CB pair of the top 6 and instead of bringing in a higher quality CB, Ed is vetoing who is good enough or not.
We can debate the quality of the players bought, but Mourinho has not bought or requested a player we didnt need.
If Mourinho is not picking the best value targets, shouldnt Ed have hired a DoF to fix that or even fire him?
Mourinho has his faults (a lot of them) and even some players can be faulted but the root of the problem is Ed and until we get a DoF, a new manager wont fix it.
So Ed's to blame for being quoted 50 million quid for Toby AND for not paying over the odds for Toby? Which one is it?
Players can be expensive, see Virgil / Alisson, but you could see the difference they've made. It's only Mou that buys a 50 million quid Brazilian midfielder and not play him. Or a certain Ivorian defender, or a Swedish defender (all of last year) etc. I mean, he was the one willing to sanction Martial off for Perisic, how fecking braindead is that. Ed's not entirely blameless, but Mourinho is a fecking terminal disease.
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There are far too many weirdities in the last five years to not be highly skeptical of whether the manager is in control of player recruitment. Even through Van Gaal and Moyes. I personally think that statements like "they are mourinho's buys" and "his transfers" as a statement needs to be binned.
There is far to much evidence to support the fact that the manager has barely any control beyond submitting a list and hoping for the best.
Thank you... Mo needs to Go.... Ed is brain dead...
With Mo in-charge.... we might as well change the name of the club to Manchester Divided FC
Eds job is to get the best deal. Hes consistently proved he cant do that. People act like hes this deal making genius because of the sponsorship deals he makes. Like selling man utd is hard
. Selling a club with millions of fans the world over to sponsors is hard . Hes just shit. No matter what way you like it at, hes the man in charge. He choose 3 managers, 2 were shit the third seems to be done and he wont fire him. He makes shit deals, often paying silly money to agents. He lets contracts run down. He makes stupid public announcements to under cut the manager he just gave a new contract to. He refused to back the manager he just gave a new contract to. If he doesnt have any faith in the manager, why on earth give him a new contract? Thats bizarre. We bought a kid, a back up to our back up keeper and fred. Thats it. We got 2nd place, and instead of pushing on and investing in the team to get first, we bought fred. Jose started the season telling anyone who would listen that the defence needed investment or we would struggle this season. No defenders brought in because now Ed doesnt want to over spend. Now its a problem. Jose isnt a long term appointment. We all know that. Hes here to give us success. To bring that feeling back to the club. So you back him. You give him whatever he wants while hes here and you back him until it hurts and then you win shit and then he fecks off. Thats it. Its not hard. Jose isnt the new SAF. Hes not going to be here for a quarter of a century. Hes a quick fix. But only if you give him everything he asks for like inter did. And if you dont want to back him because you dont believe in him, maybe. Just maybe, you dont give him a new contract. Just my opinion of course.
It actually worth more since those 400m were spent on Mou's signings so it doesn't include the real talent who are actually doing well in the team ie Martial, DDG, Rashford, Shaw and Smalling. I think Mou calls that squad inheritance. Although tbf, the value of most of the signings made on Mou's recommendation has plummeted. I mean can you see anyone spending good money to get Matic, Sanchez, Bailly, Donkey or the 50m rated reserve? I very much doubt so. Regarding Fellaini we paid for him the correct amount of money a club would pay for a panic signing suggested by Moyes in the last minute of the transfer market. Mata was also a fair deal and Schniederlin was a steal considering what others had paid for Southampton's stars and a French international.
Regarding your second comment, Mourinho signed 4 players throughout last year ie Sanchez, Fred for 50m, Dalot and Grant. That's at par to what most top clubs in the EPL did. Similarly to us Pep signed just 2 big names throughout that year (Laporte and Mahrez). Sarri signed 3 (Kepa, Jorginho and Kovacic on loan) but also lost Courtous while Pocchettino signed no one. You don't see those managers moaning about the lack of transfer activity. They get on with their job and are currently fairing far better then Mourinho is.
Finally we would certainly have bought those players if we don't keep buying players in the same positions again and again. We spent 60m on CBs and yet Mou still wants another. We spent a looping 180m in CM and yet he complains that our midfield lacks bite. Does he know what he's doing?
Ultimately Mou gave the go ahead to 400m worth of talent to win what? The Europa league and the league cup. That's surely not good enough.
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Eds job is to get the best deal. Hes consistently proved he cant do that. People act like hes this deal making genius because of the sponsorship deals he makes. Like selling man utd is hard
Jose isnt a long term appointment. We all know that. Hes here to give us success. To bring that feeling back to the club. So you back him. You give him whatever he wants while hes here and you back him until it hurts and then you win shit and then he fecks off. Thats it. Its not hard. Jose isnt the new SAF. Hes not going to be here for a quarter of a century. Hes a quick fix. But only if you give him everything he asks for like inter did. And if you dont want to back him because you dont believe in him, maybe. Just maybe, you dont give him a new contract. Just my opinion of course.
That's why we need a top class DOF who sticks around throughout any changes made and bring top quality managers whose in line to our club traditions and winning ways. I'd say bring Rangnick or Zorc from the Bundesliga as DOF, Mitchell as Head of recruitment and the Pochs for manager. Rangnick has management experience so he can understand managers more then Woody can, he also works with Mitchell while Mitchell had worked with Poch. Hopefully they will kick the ground running in no time.
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Yep, it's a must. Specially for a club like ours who works like a business behind the scenes.
Agreed. Yet some people still dont want to see that Jose is the issue. If fans dont see it, fine, but our board is embarrassing as well
there's nothing wrong in clubs working like a business. That's were football is going, unless of course, you're not owned by some oil rich regime. However, we can't keep ignoring the football side of things.
Or maybe we appoint someone with a pair of eyes who can see what the fans can see and the balls to immediately move some players on that everyone can see are not good enough.
Half the reason I am so disappointed with Jose was that I expected that guy to be him, instead he is still using Jones, Young, Valencia etc.
Anyway, hopefully we also go the dof route when he does go and we become more ruthless with underperformers
There was no sarcasm involved in that. Just quoted facts.
Sorry, what do "the fans" see? I dont see any kind of agreed upon opinion one way or another. I see a lot of moaners who repeat the same thing over and over and over. Maybe theyre standing in front of a mirror and hoping for something to happen, but I dont see any universal opinion that makes anything clear. Is it just down to Jose? Is it woodward? Is it the glazers? The scouts? The players? The tea lady? There is no definitive answer, or even a definitive opinion.
What "the fans" see is a shiny big block of ice floating along the ocean. We might get to glimpse the ice under the waves every and now and again, but we'll never see the whole thing. Its time we all stop having such strong opinions on so little information.
And as for getting moving players on, thats Eds job. Even if it was Joses job, he cant move them on until he gets replacements first. And we arrive back at Ed.
I couldn't agree more, but unfortunately the bolded part is quite unlikely to happen
I don't think it's Eds job, just as it's not Jose's. It should be the pair of them in tandem but it appears their relationship is handled via the press now.
Again, would say appointing a dof should be at the very top of Eds list of things to do. Once they are in place decide who replaces Jose and put everyone out of their misery. Jose included who hasn't looked happy for years.
But again, a dof or new boss who needs to take a look at Jones or Valencia etc, not sure I would trust them straight off the bat! The squad needs major work and some hard choices.
He was great in the world cup. Matuidi and Kante cost £25m each...you have no griezmann and mbappé sure, but alexis and martial and rashford are still pretty good options imho
Ultimately he was always an inconsistent player, but his biggest problem is mourinho's management
The fact we have people saying we shouldn't have signed Pogba just shows what a dog shit job Jose has done with this team since he arrived.
Matuidi and Kante are better than our set of midfielders and by a long margin.
And I said "perform consistently". We all know Pogba is great on his day. His quality is never questioned. His problem is he can't bring himself to a level of concentration for 40-50 games a season, which is ridiculous of player of such profile, and when this happens if your midfield isn't good enough to carry him, it will end pretty bad. At this age he needs to improve this point.