We have a problem and it may concern some players but I wouldn't label it as a player problem. For example, it has been rumoured on multiple occasions since 2016 that certain players felt that some of their teammates were given more chances and playing despite underperforming on the training pitch and games. That's typically not a player problem but a management problem that is eventually exposed by a reaction from player. People will say that players shouldn't react but at the same time I know that no one wants players that mail it in which is seemingly the stage that we have reached.
MEN: Inside the worst Man Utd season in decades
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We have a problem and it may concern some players but I wouldn't label it as a player problem. For example, it has been rumoured on multiple occasions since 2016 that certain players felt that some of their teammates were given more chances and playing despite underperforming on the training pitch and games. That's typically not a player problem but a management problem that is eventually exposed by a reaction from player. People will say that players shouldn't react but at the same time I know that no one wants players that mail it in which is seemingly the stage that we have reached.
Incredibly damning of Ole's entire era and hopefully puts to bed any straggling opinions that he was ever doing a good job.
Ralf looks like a total mug too.
Ultimately though it looks like we somehow managed to assemble one of the most expensive and yet diabolical, childish squads in modern history, a truly incredible feat.
Ralf looks like a total mug too.
Ultimately though it looks like we somehow managed to assemble one of the most expensive and yet diabolical, childish squads in modern history, a truly incredible feat.
Its looking very very damming for Rashford, left out the squad yesterday as well. It seems he has not enjoyed working under Rangnick for any minute.
Tough gig for ETH. However, sticking a no nonsense highly rated Dutchman in the mix is the only way to go. We've done past it bigger than any club legend (Mourinho), we've done mollycoddling limited experience legend (Solskjaer) and we can discount everything in between including RR.
The next stage is to stop giving large contracts to players purely because their agents blag their clients' worth in global exposure and potential marketing returns rather than performance.
Time to get rid of brands and bring back footballers. Bring on the cull!
The next stage is to stop giving large contracts to players purely because their agents blag their clients' worth in global exposure and potential marketing returns rather than performance.
Time to get rid of brands and bring back footballers. Bring on the cull!
Although it gets brought up so often, I actually think it's still not mentioned enough just how bad Woodward was. Every single signing, managerial appointment terrible. Can't think of anyone else in the spotlight who has made so many wrong decisions in their job.
"If you don't want to be here then leave."
It's a line with a lot of bravado but those who don't want to be here are probably on massive inflated contracts and will not get anything close to it at a new club so they may just ride it out for the cash.
It's a line with a lot of bravado but those who don't want to be here are probably on massive inflated contracts and will not get anything close to it at a new club so they may just ride it out for the cash.
Dave knew what was up. He's gone full gangster and is backing ETH hard.
Luckhurst is actually blaming Solskjaer and you can make of that what you will.
That's very schoolyard though, a juvenile mentality that they can stop trying and start leaking to the media beause you or one of your mates in the team think you should be getting a chance ahead of someone they/you feel the manager is giving too many chances too, the command structure is broken to the point the players aren't even trying anymore and it's disturbingly blatant, I've not seen so much open disrespect for a club from players like we've seen at United this season at any other club.
Three weeks off for the lot.
Pogba to Juve.
Lingard to W.Ham
Mata back to Spain or retire.
Matić off.
Cavani back to S.America.
Henderson to Newcastle.
Bailly to France.
Wan Bissaka to somewhere.
Martial to Sevilla.
Mason to jail.
Thats 10 faces off the training sessions.
Bring in 5 new players and promote 5 youngsters.
Knowledgable coaches with strong authority.
Spartan training regime.
Start early.
It's gonna be a good season i shit you not.
Pogba to Juve.
Lingard to W.Ham
Mata back to Spain or retire.
Matić off.
Cavani back to S.America.
Henderson to Newcastle.
Bailly to France.
Wan Bissaka to somewhere.
Martial to Sevilla.
Mason to jail.
Thats 10 faces off the training sessions.
Bring in 5 new players and promote 5 youngsters.
Knowledgable coaches with strong authority.
Spartan training regime.
Start early.
It's gonna be a good season i shit you not.
Beside my general disdain for MEN. The theme of the article is probably close to reality even if the details aren't. One thing that United failed to do from 2013 to today is build leadership. The vast majority of what we have heard is often dealt with by dressing room leaders, players don't have to be friends but they need to believe that leadership is fair, altruistic and disciplined, you need a mix of leaders some are vocal, some lead by example, some are friendly and others are grumpy. Teams often need all of them but when you look at the backbone of this team from the outside it looks bereft of leadership, so is it surprising that the mood has been that inconsistent with high highs and low lows?
And that's without mentioning the idea that we have all suspected managers to pick favorites.
And that's without mentioning the idea that we have all suspected managers to pick favorites.
This article isn’t an inside look at all. It’s a hashed attempt at journalism, sticking together sound bites with the vain hope of a coherent result. If you want a considered well written view, pay the pound for Whitwell. It’s worth it.
It's very human, I get the schoolyard but it's simply human and applies to people of all ages and backgrounds. The rest of your post matches with my take regarding lack of leadership.
And I don't think that they are leaking anything, the way things work, it's likely a friend of friend with loose lips.
Clean slate for everyone at the start of next season.
Let's see how they perform under ETH in the first few games, although I think it will take him until the new year to get the team playing how he wants them to, and each player comes to terms with his job on the pitch.
Like, players of other teams are so 'un-fragile' that they collapse in empty stadiums?
I was gonna ask if he always writes like this, because I think this is the first time I've fully read one of his articles. Between the information presented and the author's gutter-tabloid prose, it's genuinely difficult to get through.
I highly doubt Martial is going to Sevilla.
He does. He is one of the worst in the business.
We have seen what the players do on the pitch. That speaks for itself and is far worse than any gossip. If the team would be remotely functional and unified, they wouldn't play like they did.
The in-fighting actually went public when a player scored and barely celebrated. An enthusiastic teammate encouraged him to smile in front of a nearby camera, which only incensed the player, irritated by his teammate's apparent obsequiousness. This happened with United winning in a game they won.
United failure Lingard incensed at United icon/legend/history maker/one of the two GOATS - Ronaldo.
Couldn't make this shit up
United failure Lingard incensed at United icon/legend/history maker/one of the two GOATS - Ronaldo.
Couldn't make this shit up
They dont collapse but our players do when the stadium is full and everyone is calling them shit.
Luckhurst cannot or will not speak plainly about exactly what went on and seems to be at pains to sound very dramatic (the 'vipers' and 'heart surgery' bits 
) but there is no doubt this dressing room is a toxic mess.
It looks like the bottom line is when Fergie and Gill left there wasn't the first idea of how to bring United in line with how big modern clubs operate, so we've been shambling from one mess to another under various spivs and chancers in the backroom. This has translated to a decade of terrible recruitment and structure in the playing and coaching staff while paying everyone vast sums of money. It's no wonder we're in the complete mess we're in and we just have to hope whoever is calling the shots now has a plan to oversee a total overhaul of everything (the signs for which look half-decent so far).
) but there is no doubt this dressing room is a toxic mess.It looks like the bottom line is when Fergie and Gill left there wasn't the first idea of how to bring United in line with how big modern clubs operate, so we've been shambling from one mess to another under various spivs and chancers in the backroom. This has translated to a decade of terrible recruitment and structure in the playing and coaching staff while paying everyone vast sums of money. It's no wonder we're in the complete mess we're in and we just have to hope whoever is calling the shots now has a plan to oversee a total overhaul of everything (the signs for which look half-decent so far).
I think you're right. This is most likely to be the goal mentioned in the article. McTominay even points to the corner where the cameras are. And you can hear a half-hearted 'yeah' from Rashford when he gets close to the mics.
The Lingard one was just a player wanting to be respectful to a former club.
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Hahah there isn’t a chance.
I think its obvious that Luckhurst is just a mouth piece for certain United players.
"Luckhust is making it all up....there's no way it's this bad"
Face it. Every player comes to Utd with their own little cadre of rabid fans. They ALL post here apparently. No one is ever going to make everyone happy. But the Pogba/Martial days when Jose was manager stands out as one period where the forum had gone nuts pro-player power.
Why would these players be given a clean slate? Contractual obligation and exorbitant wages mean some of them are going nowhere, even if pushed, but outside faux harmony and cordiality, what warrants a clean slate?
People on this caf have more chance of playing for Sevilla
One thing I've heard repeatedly from Andy Mitten on the Athletics podcast is that Rashford is not necessarily going to end his career at United. I think that speaks to the attitude Marcus has been showing behind the scenes (which both Luckhurst and Whitwell have both alluded to in their articles) and the reputation he's developed amongst the senior staff.
It's sad because Rashford is probably my favourite person in all of football. But if he's causing damage to the United cause, he has to go.
It's sad because Rashford is probably my favourite person in all of football. But if he's causing damage to the United cause, he has to go.
No, I'm just saying I think we should take the narratives presented with a massive pinch of salt because no-one is willing to put their name to them.
I'd agree that players (or people close to them) briefing is a big issue but again, the difficulty is provenance, how much of it is actual leaking and how much it just people taking the opportunity to make a quick buck on the back of how hungry people are for news about United's struggles? My suspicion is that some of the leaks we've seen have indeed come from disgruntled players pushing an clear agenda. That is absolutely a problem and suggests a lack of discipline which needs sorting and problem players who need showing the door. However, I also suspect a lot of what we're seeing are half-truths and speculation pushed by opportunistic hangers-on looking to ingratiate themselves with journalists, and journalists themselves seeing an opportunity to generate a lot of engagement for very little effort. Because it's all anonymous we have no way of knowing which is which, largely we choose what to believe depending on our pre-existing biases.
Which I guess is my main point. We as fans fall right into the trap of this type of journalism and we reward the leakers. If we just refused to engage with anonymous gossip full-stop we'd neuter the ability of disgruntled players to undermine the team by leaking to serve their own interests. We'd also neuter the ability of hangers-on and journalists to make money printing provocative guff designed to drive clicks by enraging the fanbase.
That Whitwell article is damning.
The idea that communication and organisation at the club is so bad, that support staff don't know when players are off or available to schedule sessions, or that a specialist set piece coach not having scheduled sessions to work on set pieces because he has to cover a lack of proper general coaching staff, is staggering to me.
This is Manchester United and it's being run like an unsupervised transition year tuck shop.
I'd say there is so much of this. Loads of job titles and redundant positions, holding endless meetings in which nothing ever gets done because there is zero firm leadership or direction from above.
We are waiting for a manager to come in and shape the club from top to bottom, to take control and right all the wrongs. But at the same time, anyone who comes in is being undermined not only by the sheer incompetence of those around him, but by the vested interests of turkeys who don't want to vote for Christmas. How does he take control when every time he tries to makes a decision, a committee of idiots decide his decision is wrong?
I'm really hoping the moves in the last few months are an indication that the tanker is slowly beginning to turn but honestly, a large part of me suspects it's all just more PR spin and bullshit from the same old spoofers.
The idea that communication and organisation at the club is so bad, that support staff don't know when players are off or available to schedule sessions, or that a specialist set piece coach not having scheduled sessions to work on set pieces because he has to cover a lack of proper general coaching staff, is staggering to me.
This is Manchester United and it's being run like an unsupervised transition year tuck shop.
I'd say there is so much of this. Loads of job titles and redundant positions, holding endless meetings in which nothing ever gets done because there is zero firm leadership or direction from above.
We are waiting for a manager to come in and shape the club from top to bottom, to take control and right all the wrongs. But at the same time, anyone who comes in is being undermined not only by the sheer incompetence of those around him, but by the vested interests of turkeys who don't want to vote for Christmas. How does he take control when every time he tries to makes a decision, a committee of idiots decide his decision is wrong?
I'm really hoping the moves in the last few months are an indication that the tanker is slowly beginning to turn but honestly, a large part of me suspects it's all just more PR spin and bullshit from the same old spoofers.
Remember when his form tanked, got dropped and then there's a leak about "his playing future and contract" and "wanting assurances around playing time"
Was the first time in his career that I genuinely despised him on the football field. Can never say a word about the man's contributions to UK society, but when that stuff leaked, we all knew the squad was in trouble with egos.
One of the most surprising things on rashford was Mitten saying that. This was when Ole was still here this season, there was no real speculation about rashford leaving just him playing through injuries/losing some form and when he was asked about him I just expected a stock he’s considered the future of the club answer. To say he hears different things and doesn’t know if he’ll be here long term was pretty astounding. He’s the one key player who has disappeared from the squad. Mata/Elanga and now Hannibal have started before him. There’s no way something isn’t happening behind the scenes.
“Specs” Lingard Rashford or Henderson
Bemused at Elangas playing time? Elanga who kept us in the CL tie and played harder than players on 10 times the money? It’s the England lads. Rashford hasn’t just been shit he’s been protesting, doing it on purpose to show how broken he is. I personally would be rid so fast of someone who pulls against like that, so public ally and shamelessly. Last manager let me do what I wanted which is walk around and play greedy while everyone else works for me. Why would I change I’m a living legend. Like Pogba with Jose all over again although to be fair to Pogba at least he kept running for Jose even if it wasn’t with the intensity or leadership that he demanded.
The same Lingard with his sulky West Ham celebration and social media posts running his contract down? These guys are arseholes who couldn’t give a shit about the fans. It’s all been marketing and we’ve been forced to lap it up for years.
Bemused at Elangas playing time? Elanga who kept us in the CL tie and played harder than players on 10 times the money? It’s the England lads. Rashford hasn’t just been shit he’s been protesting, doing it on purpose to show how broken he is. I personally would be rid so fast of someone who pulls against like that, so public ally and shamelessly. Last manager let me do what I wanted which is walk around and play greedy while everyone else works for me. Why would I change I’m a living legend. Like Pogba with Jose all over again although to be fair to Pogba at least he kept running for Jose even if it wasn’t with the intensity or leadership that he demanded.
The same Lingard with his sulky West Ham celebration and social media posts running his contract down? These guys are arseholes who couldn’t give a shit about the fans. It’s all been marketing and we’ve been forced to lap it up for years.
Agree with ALL of this. Love the part about turkeys who don't want to vote for Christmas....
Rashford should be kicked out to another club. Get 50m for him or whatever. His heart and mind isn't really there.
I'll use your post to point out that as I said for years Pogba isn't a leader, at least not the discipline setting" type of leader, he is more of the buddy type like Evra. I suspect that you are right about the demand part and it could have been one of the issues, the same seem to apply to Maguire and others who were expected to occupy roles that didn't fit with their characters.
Apologies if this has been covered already, but does anyone have context to this part:
He (Maguire) became such an easy target one teammate flagrantly leaked a story where the reporter's byline effectively gave away the source.
He (Maguire) became such an easy target one teammate flagrantly leaked a story where the reporter's byline effectively gave away the source.
Very true.
While we were all laughing at the KDB "let me talk" clip last week. I did notice something. David Silva's authority was obvious. Simply said, no he couldn't. I don't think we have that. The problem.
I think the problem of leadership has been exacerbated by making a player from a lower placed team captain when he had barely kicked a ball for us. Leaders in a dressing room earn their place through periods of consistent performance. That's why David Silva and Fernandinho could tell Kevin De Bruyne to shut it. I think that's a problem we will have for a fairly long time.