MEN: Carrick and McKenna next in line for contract extensions

Womp said:
It's so odd - it's not even like we can attack the spending. They have spent money that should have has up there, but they seem so happy to accept mediocrity in other aspects of the team.
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I know, I feel like I'm in an alternate reality these days.

For years Woodward and Glazers get pelters for not backing managers or buying their cheapest targets in each position. They sacked those guys on the back of success, for christ's sake. Now they back Ole with half a billion and accept anything.

It's absolutely insane. Still, they will be left with no choice when Ronaldo etc are fed up with him, which they will be if he doesn't show something he's not managed in 3 years.
 
pocco said:
I know, I feel like I'm in an alternate reality these days.

For years Woodward and Glazers get pelters for not backing managers or buying their cheapest targets in each position. They sacked those guys on the back of success, for christ's sake. Now they back Ole with half a billion and accept anything.

It's absolutely insane. Still, they will be left with no choice when Ronaldo etc are fed up with him, which they will be if he doesn't show something he's not managed in 3 years.
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They didnt sack them on back of successes. Jose was sacked when we were in a horrible run of form, LVG missed out on top 4 despite winning FA cup.
Still though sometimes manager should be sacked before we see if we'll get top 4 or not.
 
Real Name said:
They didnt sack them on back of successes. Jose was sacked when we were in a horrible run of form, LVG missed out on top 4 despite winning FA cup.
Still though sometimes manager should be sacked before we see if we'll get top 4 or not.
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Jose was sacked on the back of success - we also didn't back him and apparently questioned his request for a CB. Ole arrives, completely unproven and is backed with all the riches the previous proven managers requested. Then is safe as houses whilst his much improved team are pretty rubbish to watch and he fails to win anything. There have been managers at other top teams that win the league and are sacked because their football style isn't right or it is obvious that they won't be the right person to sustain success.

Ole is living a charmed life. He wouldn't have lasted anywhere else and wouldn't have lasted here under previous circumstances where Woodward was failing in the transfer market and scrimping on money.
 
pocco said:
Jose was sacked on the back of success - we also didn't back him and apparently questioned his request for a CB. Ole arrives, completely unproven and is backed with all the riches the previous proven managers requested. Then is safe as houses whilst his much improved team are pretty rubbish to watch and he fails to win anything. There have been managers at other top teams that win the league and are sacked because their football style isn't right or it is obvious that they won't be the right person to sustain success.

Ole is living a charmed life. He wouldn't have lasted anywhere else and wouldn't have lasted here under previous circumstances where Woodward was failing in the transfer market and scrimping on money.
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One season he was backed, the other he wasnt. Just like Ole. Jose won the EL, the next season we were 2nd and he was sacked in 3rd season while we were in a terrible run of form. Similar can happen with Ole. He was 3rd and 2nd so that's why he wasnt sacked although I agree he lacks trophies and in some other club he would leave long before.
I dont think he was given Ronaldo, Sancho and Varane just to achieve top 4. Or so I hope.

Woodward scrimping on money is a bit of a myth. Both Jose and LVG were backed. The fact they went for the wrong players is a different story.
 
We have no idea what they do, just like we have no idea if all the players love Ole as much as some claim on here.

It's no big deal really if they sign new deals, and it isn't going to be a huge expense for the club. If the Board are still fully backing the current regime, then so be it. It's now up to said regime to deliver, and if they don't, they'll be moved on.
 
The problem isn't with them as such but more that the contract renewal insinuates the board's unwavering belief in Ole. I think that's the issue here.
 
As I said in the Phelan thread:

It’s astounding how little you have to do to receive a contract extension at this club.

The standards aren’t low, they’re non-existent.
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It’s hilarious that people thought Ronaldo and Varane would signify the priorities shifting towards on field success. Those were all to boost the brand. The football and trophies only matter to the Glazers through that lens. If the product on the pitch hurts the profits, they will invest. They also needed some appeasement after the Super League stunt.

There is no accountability and that starts at the top. Ed Woodward was objectively terrible at his job from a football perspective and was given free reign, remaining the highest paid executive in football for years. It’s a cozy operation and everyone’s making money hand over foot throughout the club. They’re all loving life so why be ruthless with anyone?
 
Tom Cato said:
I've numbered the sentences so you know what I'm replying to, because you seem to be a bit all over the place.

1. Re: competence. You seem to be a bit confused about what this actually is.

Michael Carrick is employed as first team coach at Manchester United. He's got 524 First Division/Premier League games to his name along with 34 international outings. He's been part of Manchester Uniteds coaching staff since 2018. He's got vast first hand experience as a player and 3 full years as a coach(AM under Mourinho). He's well qualified for his current position.

Kieran McKenna has been part of Mancester Uniteds coaching staff at various levels since 2016, was tottenhams u-18 coach before that and holds a sports science degree.

Both are competent through education and sporting qualification to hold coaching roles at a elite level sportsclub. More importantly, you don't have any clue what they're doing. When you argue competence you're basing that off the on-pitch results over the last month of games.

2. Unless you are a member of the Manchester United board, this is an opinion, nothing more. I've rarely seen fans so passionate about winning the Carabao cup "at least" as I've seen them the last 2 seasons. The overall result trajectory has been increasing gradually every season. The Venn Diagram between "Club Improving in the league" vs "Fans saying we're competing for top4 at the very best" is a perfect circle.

3. Again, your opinion. We're 7 league matches into the current season and you're crying about lack of ROI? If you're not crying about the current season, are you crying about the previous season? But more importantly, I didn't even mention Ole in my reply, all I stated was that organizational continuity is important above all else. I know this because I run one. Having people on expiring contracts is a massive distraction and a detriment to what you're trying to achieve. I will give you props for not saying 9 years at least. Time dllation is a real thing in the black hole that is this forum when it comes to arguing how much time has passed since the current staff was hired.

4. If you're unhappy with the product, stop buying it. I'm happy to admit that not all the games the club play are good, bordering on frustrating. Some games are very good. Sometimes a team can dip in form and performances are impacted. it happens to every club under the sun. Its a bit what you expect from football. The bottom line is that we tried big name managers and big name spending for 7 years. We're trying something new now. I'm happy to ride out the process. Many fans have patience and don't feel entitled to things simply because of the club we choose to support. I'm one of them. Others aren't, and that's fine, but we don't have a lot to talk about.

5. The club has had some disappointing results over the past 4 weeks, of course they're talking about it. It's their job to talk about ongoing events. I'm not going to reply to the rest because its the same circlejerk of talkingpoints that goes nowhere. Ole smiling, jesus.

6. You took a post I made about the importance of having staff on outgoing contracts knowing what their future holds so they can focus on their dayjobs and made it about me being biased because of Ole. Why can't an opinion be isolated without being made into something I never even said?

7. People arent "suggesting" Ole out. The loudmouths on the internet are not suggesting anything, they're being as loud and agressive as they can get away with. But again, my post is not about the manager, its about the backroom staff and the importance of renewing contracts.

Listen, you can disagree with me as much as you'd like and even pretend I don't know anything about anything, but you have to realize that what you're writing is opinion, not fact. You don't have the faintest idea what any of those coaches do from day to day, all you base your opinion on is what happens on the pitch.

At some point, its really time to start looking at the players and demand that they play better, they are being handsomely paid to perform well.
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Thanks for a good reply. So let’s see where we disagree.

1. Our best measurement is the results. We have improved the quality of our squad every season but the results are the same. We still underachieve. We regularly lose important games. Our style of play doesn’t look good compared to other clubs in our ball park.

What Carrick did as a player doesn’t count after a couple of seasons as a assistant coach. We can only judge him by our results and how it looks. Same with McKenna. With a squad full of world class players our performances isn’t pretty and our results is if we’re nice maybe ok. Bottom line. If the team doesn’t improve their results with better players then the problem is on the management.

2. Once again. We bought 3 world class players this summer. Together with Bruno, Pogba, Maguire, Shaw and DDG. All of them is regarded as one of the best in the world in their position. With so much quality our results aren’t good enough.

3. Giving contract extensions to underachievers is a sign of poor management. Football is a result business. Successful clubs makes changes all the time. Ole isn’t the new Sir Alex so more time isn’t a factor for him to achieve success. This is what we get with Ole, McKenns, Carrick and Phelan. In my and many others opinion it’s not good enough.

4. Childish reply. “Stop buying the product“. What kind answer is that? Honestly Tom Cato you must do better then suggesting supporters to stop watching games. Ole has been in charge for almost 3 years. Trusting the process? This what he’s capable of. His only way to improve is by better players. Sorry but their are better ways to improve our results then buying new shiny toys. Give us competent modern manager and you will see the difference. (keyword modern)

5. Winners don‘t smile after bad results. Show me those who smile and I show you a loser. How often did you see Sir Alex with a smile after a loss?

6. My bad. Off course your points about the subject is valid and you’re totally right. But hopefully your employees is competent enough to validate high salaries and long term contracts. Btw How is the union in Norway? Pain in the ass or best pals who you share a beer with on Akers brygge?

7. People are suggesting Ole out. Everywhere. Fact. Are you living under a rock?
 
pocco said:
Jose was sacked on the back of success - we also didn't back him and apparently questioned his request for a CB. Ole arrives, completely unproven and is backed with all the riches the previous proven managers requested. Then is safe as houses whilst his much improved team are pretty rubbish to watch and he fails to win anything. There have been managers at other top teams that win the league and are sacked because their football style isn't right or it is obvious that they won't be the right person to sustain success.

Ole is living a charmed life. He wouldn't have lasted anywhere else and wouldn't have lasted here under previous circumstances where Woodward was failing in the transfer market and scrimping on money.
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Jose also wanted experienced CBs, Jose's mouthpiece confirmed he never wanted Maguire, he was looking for experienced CBs. Maguire later confirmed that he decided to stay at Leicester for one more season, so that deal was never on from both sides.

Jose wanted Boateng, Boateng said it himself and also that he rejected the proposal. Jose wanted Godin and Godin himself said he rejected the move.

Jose was backed and got almost new team, all ManUtd managers are backed maybe except Moyes but there are so many reasons for that.

Van Gaal got whole bunch of new players and then he moans about the club because he thought we can easily sign players like Ramos, Muller when he rejected players like Kroos when all the ground work was done. He then named Di Maria as the player he wanted to play 4-3-3 and then moans it, saying he never wanted Di Maria.

No ManUtd manager should moan about backing, everyone was backed.
 
VP89 said:
The problem isn't with them as such but more that the contract renewal insinuates the board's unwavering belief in Ole. I think that's the issue here.
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When the owners are signing Ole's staff to long term contracts, it is a clear sign that Ole is staying for a long time. Top 4 is the only requirement and they may get another season if they do not make top 4. It is about profits with the Glazers, always has been.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
When the owners are signing Ole's staff to long term contracts, it is a clear sign that Ole is staying for a long time. Top 4 is the only requirement and they may get another season if they do not make top 4. It is about profits with the Glazers, always has been.
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I see your sentiment but I think that coaches are disposable. If shit hit the pan and we got someone like Conte, we can very easily terminate the contracts of the current coaches and allow Conte's to come in. I don't think it would be a material cost in the grand scheme of things.

Not saying I want Conte, by the way. Just reckon coaching extensions don't mean we can't overhaul should we need to. But it does definitely mean that the board still back Ole very strongly. I think even if he grabs a couple wins and draws with some losses, falls a good 7-10 points behind the pack, he'll still be our manager because technically he can turn it around. Even though the whole world will know he wouldn't.
 
VP89 said:
I see your sentiment but I think that coaches are disposable. If shit hit the pan and we got someone like Conte, we can very easily terminate the contracts of the current coaches and allow Conte's to come in. I don't think it would be a material cost in the grand scheme of things.

Not saying I want Conte, by the way. Just reckon coaching extensions don't mean we can't overhaul should we need to. But it does definitely mean that the board still back Ole very strongly. I think even if he grabs a couple wins and draws with some losses, falls a good 7-10 points behind the pack, he'll still be our manager because technically he can turn it around. Even though the whole world will know he wouldn't.
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It can only speak of the intent of the owners currently. That can change, but are the Glazers guaranteeing a lot of money to these people if it does not work out? Including Ole's buy out too.
 
Zaphod2319 said:
It can only speak of the intent of the owners currently. That can change, but are the Glazers guaranteeing a lot of money to these people if it does not work out? Including Ole's buy out too.
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Not sure. Wouldn't be Glazer's call at that stage anyway. I'm sure Murtuogh and Fletcher have the remit for that stuff. It's all guesstimating at this stage but I hope Fletcher doesn't have more flex for Ole given they were teammates.
 
pocco said:
Jose was sacked on the back of success - we also didn't back him and apparently questioned his request for a CB. Ole arrives, completely unproven and is backed with all the riches the previous proven managers requested. Then is safe as houses whilst his much improved team are pretty rubbish to watch and he fails to win anything. There have been managers at other top teams that win the league and are sacked because their football style isn't right or it is obvious that they won't be the right person to sustain success.

Ole is living a charmed life. He wouldn't have lasted anywhere else and wouldn't have lasted here under previous circumstances where Woodward was failing in the transfer market and scrimping on money.
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Not this complete garbage again... Jose literally signed two of his own CBs and couldn't get anything out of them. To say he wasn't backed is pure nonsense which has repeatedly been proven!
 
Of all the things to be bitching about, this seems to be the least worth it. If Ole gets sacked, McKenna goes back to coaching the U23s and Carrick either stays as a holdover for the next manager or coaches the U18s or something.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Not this complete garbage again... Jose literally signed two of his own CBs and couldn't get anything out of them. To say he wasn't backed is pure nonsense which has repeatedly been proven!
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Ole bought a RW and sold him within a couple of seasons. Then he spent £30m or so on Amad, another chunk on Pellistri, then fecked them off and spent £70m on Sancho. He's actually signed 4 RWs in worth over £150m and he already has Greenwood :lol: He bought an AM in Bruno, then bought another in VDB and never plays him, even though he cost £40m. He is then allowed to bring Lingard back, who is receiving a lot of interest after a successful loan, and plonks him on the bench as backup to Bruno and VDB (maybe ahead of £40m VDB?). Not to mention the £80m Pogba who also plays this position that he won't let go of when he apparently wanted/wants to leave and we can receive a fee. He's got about half a dozen CFs on the books, all of the highest quality and was allowed to add Ronaldo to options that already included Cavani, Greenwood, Martial and possibly Rashford.

That is being backed. Not signing a player that flops and being told 'well you signed him, sorry'. Ole doesn't get that treatment and neither do the likes of Pep or Klopp. Nobody, even Fergie, got every signing right.

So sorry, but you're the one talking garbage.
 
You gotta hand it to United, it's like they read redcafe and they see all this posts about how Ole might need better coaches.
And proceed to do exactly opposite what was asked, just to trolled us :lol:
 
VP89 said:
Not sure. Wouldn't be Glazer's call at that stage anyway. I'm sure Murtuogh and Fletcher have the remit for that stuff. It's all guesstimating at this stage but I hope Fletcher doesn't have more flex for Ole given they were teammates.
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I'd assume they have performance targets built into their contracts. tbh much as I think the timing sucks, this feels a little like a storm in a teacup. Carrick, McKenna and Phelan are like a package deal with Ole. It's not like a normal situation where a manager comes in and brings his own staff. They were all part of the interim period, unplanned. Then they all got hired as a collective. Ole's contract was up, they extended it, so now they kind of have to do the same with the other 3. And they'll all be fired together if Ole goes. So, nothing much to see here really, other than it being a clever way of saying we trust you Ole, that will mean nothing if results don't come their way.
 
pocco said:
Ole bought a RW and sold him within a couple of seasons. Then he spent £30m or so on Amad, another chunk on Pellistri, then fecked them off and spent £70m on Sancho. He's actually signed 4 RWs in worth over £150m and he already has Greenwood :lol: He bought an AM in Bruno, then bought another in VDB and never plays him, even though he cost £40m. He is then allowed to bring Lingard back, who is receiving a lot of interest after a successful loan, and plonks him on the bench as backup to Bruno and VDB (maybe ahead of £40m VDB?). Not to mention the £80m Pogba who also plays this position that he won't let go of when he apparently wanted/wants to leave and we can receive a fee. He's got about half a dozen CFs on the books, all of the highest quality and was allowed to add Ronaldo to options that already included Cavani, Greenwood, Martial and possibly Rashford.

That is being backed. Not signing a player that flops and being told 'well you signed him, sorry'. Ole doesn't get that treatment and neither do the likes of Pep or Klopp. Nobody, even Fergie, got every signing right.

So sorry, but you're the one talking garbage.
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Haven’t read your post because I don’t really need to. Bringing Ole into it is irrelevant. Mourinho was backed to the hilt and his signings were shite, doesn’t matter if Ole has spent more, he’s actually bought some quality into this club. Which ones of Mourinhos signings can we not live without?
 
I have no issue with Carrick, McKenna, Fletcher or the Set piece coach. I think we need stronger more technically astute Assistant Manager. Ole said when he took over that his entire set up was too young and that they needed experience. Mike Phelan was the sporting director for Central Coast Mariners when Ole came knocking. I'm not too sure that this is the elite level experience that we needed in Ole's ear. Stuff like dropping Ronaldo, playing Sancho on the left, leaving Matic on the bench when McFred are having a howler. Not making decisions at vital moments in games.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Haven’t read your post because I don’t really need to. Bringing Ole into it is irrelevant. Mourinho was backed to the hilt and his signings were shite, doesn’t matter if Ole has spent more, he’s actually bought some quality into this club. Which ones of Mourinhos signings can we not live without?
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Backed to the hilt? We wanted and knew he needed to improve more areas of the team. Are you trying to dispute that? 2nd place and a better points total than Ole has ever managed, was a success.

It's still early days for Ole's signings. The likes of AWB has question marks over him, in fact our whole defence does this season and Ole bought it. The basic point was the Jose wasn't backed like Ole, which is a simple fact yet somebody tried to question it.

But Matic looks our best midfielder this season despite his age and Pogba is Pogba. Still one of our main players even if he does polarise opinion. Then others that still play for us.

It's a daft question anyway because Ole has brought in players that he wants and got rid of many that Jose wanted. Why would Ole be expected to try and make Jose's players work if we have the means to sign replacements? That's the same point I was making re Jose. Ole messes up a signing (James, Diallo not gone to plan as expected, VDB sat on the bench every week which Jose was criticized for with Fred) and he is allowed to sign Sancho for £70m. Instead Jose signs 2 CBs and they don't turn out world class and one struggles with injuries, and it's a sword Jose has to die on.

I'm not bothered about any of this but, as usual I get drawn into a debate over a simple observation.
 
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Awful news. Just means it will cost alot more when we finally sack them all.
 
I swear our club are massive trolls with the timing of these extensions :lol:

We'll drop points away at Leicester next time out, then there will be a story about Jones, Bailly, Lingard, Mata and Matic all signing long term deals.
 
Tom Cato said:
I've numbered the sentences so you know what I'm replying to, because you seem to be a bit all over the place.

1. Re: competence. You seem to be a bit confused about what this actually is.

Michael Carrick is employed as first team coach at Manchester United. He's got 524 First Division/Premier League games to his name along with 34 international outings. He's been part of Manchester Uniteds coaching staff since 2018. He's got vast first hand experience as a player and 3 full years as a coach(AM under Mourinho). He's well qualified for his current position.
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Sorry to jump in. Everything you said is undebatable except for the last sentence, which imo doesn't logically follow from the previous sentences the way you seem to suggest.

Tom Cato said:
What I'm getting at is that they're both qualified to hold the positions they do. Re: competence: They wouldnt be hired if someone didnt find them competent enough to hold the position they do, nor renew their contracts.

Everyone are entitled to disagree about the jobs they do, but truth is that no one knows how good they are day to day.
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It's like when we had Moyes: If I had said he's our manager and has been managing for over ten years, does that make him well qualified for the position? I don't think it does. Your argument is basically 'he was hired for the position, so therefore he must be good enough to do the job', which is specious logic: what if the guy who hired him wasn't competent?
 
Gazza said:
Sorry to jump in. Everything you said is undebatable except for the last sentence, which imo doesn't logically follow from the previous sentences the way you seem to suggest.



It's like when we had Moyes: If I had said he's our manager and has been managing for over ten years, does that make him well qualified for the position? I don't think it does. Your argument is basically 'he was hired for the position, so therefore he must be good enough to do the job', which is specious logic: what if the guy who hired him wasn't competent?
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This is the problem, Woodward, Ole,
Murtough, Carrick, Fletcher, Mckenna who has actually proven they are good enough (or have enough experience)?. Phelan is the only one who can potentially say he has succeeded in role he’s employed to do and that’s assuming his job now is similar to what it was under SAF.
 
Sviken said:
How is rewarding mediocrity increasing his chances of success? I don't get it. Did the new 3 years contract make him perform any better? Obviously not. All this does is that eventually the club would have to pay a nice severance package to all of them. And where does the club gets its money from? Certainly not from some oil sheikh's pockets.
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We need some kind of pay per win or pay per clean sheet for these assistant coaches
 
Gazza said:
Sorry to jump in. Everything you said is undebatable except for the last sentence, which imo doesn't logically follow from the previous sentences the way you seem to suggest.



It's like when we had Moyes: If I had said he's our manager and has been managing for over ten years, does that make him well qualified for the position? I don't think it does. Your argument is basically 'he was hired for the position, so therefore he must be good enough to do the job', which is specious logic: what if the guy who hired him wasn't competent?
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Ah, but what you're failing to see here is that he was hired to that position so must be competent.
 
pocco said:
Backed to the hilt? We wanted and knew he needed to improve more areas of the team. Are you trying to dispute that? 2nd place and a better points total than Ole has ever managed, was a success.

It's still early days for Ole's signings. The likes of AWB has question marks over him, in fact our whole defence does this season and Ole bought it. The basic point was the Jose wasn't backed like Ole, which is a simple fact yet somebody tried to question it.

But Matic looks our best midfielder this season despite his age and Pogba is Pogba. Still one of our main players even if he does polarise opinion. Then others that still play for us.

It's a daft question anyway because Ole has brought in players that he wants and got rid of many that Jose wanted. Why would Ole be expected to try and make Jose's players work if we have the means to sign replacements? That's the same point I was making re Jose. Ole messes up a signing (James, Diallo not gone to plan as expected, VDB sat on the bench every week which Jose was criticized for with Fred) and he is allowed to sign Sancho for £70m. Instead Jose signs 2 CBs and they don't turn out world class and one struggles with injuries, and it's a sword Jose has to die on.

I'm not bothered about any of this but, as usual I get drawn into a debate over a simple observation.
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Add to that Maguire!

Mourinho desperately wanted him, was denied him, and then the club bought him (for more!) for Ole!

It’s genuinely really odd that of all the post SAF managers, the Glazers have most heavily backed the worse coach! And even odder that no one talks about it.

Ole surely can’t believe it himself - must be very surreal for a coach of his relatively lowly level being given players like Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane, Maguire, Fernandes, Cavani etc to manage!

Wouldn’t surprise me if he felt a touch of Imposter Syndrome…

And with the best will in the World, it MUST affect the players. I mean, cmon, these guys have played at the top level and won trophies all over the place and they’re being coached by a bunch of managerial no-marks who have won feck all and clearly have no vision.

It’s really weird, to be honest.
 
Mourinho got almost every player he wanted in his first two seasons. He was hugely backed.

Only from his third summer it was a shitshow, from all involved.
 
Maguire himself said that Leicester owner asked for one more season, that's why he didn't push for the move. Then Boateng, Godin confirmed that they rejected moves.

Wouldn't blame any of them.
 
I have zero issue with both of them remaining part of the coaching setup. My issue is that they appear to be THE coaching setup on match day.

We need world class experienced tacticians sitting on the bench next to the manager and C&M are light years away from that.
 
Really struggle to believe that either are up to it. Both sit there looking confused during games but we know Ole and know that they will be there until the end with him. They’re amateur coaches in my opinion and until we see better things on the pitch and improve where we need to that opinion won’t change.
 
Theyve been in their spot since Joses last season started. If OGS is manager and they are his coaches and OGS supposedly has feck all to do with tactics and is just man-management, then they haven’t done a good job I’d say. I’ve also heard Phelans a man management guy too.

At this point in their now fourth season, I’m expecting something more cohesive in style of play rather than counter attack and individual brilliance. I think fans would find acceptable if we looked somewhat limited for a season at most doing that, but here we are seemingly doing the same things we‘ve been doing since 2019.

OGS seems content with them though and maybe we should question OGS for keeping faith in them.
 
largelyworried said:
Then he should be given the best possible chance of success by the Board. Simple as that.
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So according to your "logic" he's been underperforming this whole time cos he was hamstrung by an inadequate contract and will now suddenly come good cos that's been sorted? Awllllllrightythen....
 
Will Singh said:
Carrick has done a brilliant job especially in our midfield. A few more years and Fred will be playing like Pirlo!
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Yes but which version of Pirlo? The one before or after retirement?
 
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