World class player
Memphis Depay | Corinthians player
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Memphis with the 4th most goals & assists in 2021 behind Messi, Lewandowski & Haaland.
Ahead of Mbappé (40) & Ronaldo (33)
For anyone interested:
1. Lewandowski (49)
2. Messi (47)
3. Haaland (44)
4. Memphis (42)
5. Mbappé (40)
updated
Ahead of Mbappé (40) & Ronaldo (33)
For anyone interested:
1. Lewandowski (49)
2. Messi (47)
3. Haaland (44)
4. Memphis (42)
5. Mbappé (40)
updated
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LVG knew. He just came too early.
He wouldn't have sold him anyway if he stayed.
This statistic looks doctored
Could have a KdB like return to EPL
No no no.. He is just playing shit opponents and is playing in a shit league..
Well France is still a shit league. He was always a good player though, and just needed the right environment to regain his confidence, hence the value of a good loan.
LVG wanted him to be a direct, one-on-one threat down the wing. The exact opposite of the player he has become...
Isn’t.
But I forgot the 2.
He has 42.
I mean he is still very good at one on ones.
At least that’s what he has shown at Barca.
In their press conference pre Turkey they both referred to Van Gaal initially playing him in a rol behind the strikers at United, but they said he wasn't steady enough there yet at that moment...
Wrong ! He was the first one to try him upfront with Rooney. Slate him all you want but he does know something about the game.
Not the same situations. He's very good in "static" situations, where he just needs to gain that half yard of space to either shoot or pass. Much different from being asked to pick up the ball close to the touchline, beat his man an run into the teeth of the defence - he never had the pace and acceleration for it
Fine, I stand corrected. Doesn't change the fact that at United he was usually asked to play in a way that ran counter to his skillset
It was Mourinho who messed it up.
Memphis, Rashford and Martial were never central players to him because Jose utelises only bulky strikers. He ended up selling the weakest left winger which was Memphis.
Memphis, Rashford and Martial were never central players to him because Jose utelises only bulky strikers. He ended up selling the weakest left winger which was Memphis.
Kind of true but still...fair play to him
When he started as a striker for us for the first time, game vs Watford when he scored?
Wrong. He played him as a no 10 when he just came over. They actually spoke about Memphis' improvement in their press conference and said that his spatial awareness has improved, which was holding him back playing in the middle of the pitch. He sort of ends up in the same positions as his current false 9 role. It also makes sense why he ended up back on the wing fairly quickly, since it's much easier to be aware of your surroundings from the side.
Yeah somebody else pointed that out. In the end though, that season he spent most of his playing time isolated on the wing iirc, being asked to take his man on and run at the defence. Until he lost his spot to Martial/Rashford because he simply never had the physical gifts to play like that
Of curse he's a better player now. He's matured, and you can see that in his game. He is also much better as a false 9. His awarness, one touch play and ability to to link up with others makes him perfect for that positon. In hindsight, it's a shame we didn't persevere with him a bit longer. Could have been such a useful player now. Also would have added to our handsome squad.
He also came here and quickly looked like he put on way too much muscle - there was one point where he was Shaqiri level hench - which made him so easy to mark.
I don't think that was a problem. He simply never had elite explosiveness and pace
Because he gets to say how right he was on the internets
https://www.football365.com/news/depay-i-have-put-on-5kg-at-manchester-united
He was plenty fast enough at PSV, particularly with the ball at feet. There were a number of reasons he never succeeded here but we definitely bulked him up way too much.
5 KGs of muscle is nothing. It doesn't really negatively affect pace or explosiveness.
He *looked* fast in the netherlands because of the competition
We have a very different understanding of human anatomy.
Look at sprinters. Basketball players, etc. Going from 80 to 85 KG, all muscle, is unlikely to make you slower or less explosive, unless your muscles aren't explosive in the first place
Being explosiveness in the Eredivisie and being lightning like Rashy/Greenwood are 2 different things. Putting on a few kilos of muscle doesn't make you slower, like at all. The opposite happens, because only the force component of power production is trainable. Heavyweight olympic weightlifters have ridiculous sprint speeds and vertical jumps (as do fat NFL players) Explosiveness is mostly a genetic thing, which is why Bulgarians used to recruit children based on their standing vertical jump for their weightlifting program. A standing vertical jump can not be trained much, it's how much force you can produce in the split second you push on the ground.
Sure, but @giorno is right and you're wrong.
Quite a lot of errors to pick through here.
If you’re referencing Abadjiev’s system, vertical jump was a measurement used but why is that relevant?
Also vertical jump is highly trainable - I’d go as far as to say it’s one of the most trainable physical tests you could possibly do as it’s plyometric and body weight is a big factor. So not only are you completely wrong but this is an irrelevant point.
As for the heavyweight Oly lifters…this is actually the perfect scenario to prove how badly thought out your logic is. Answer me this, who would win in a 100m race between a 109kg Oly lifter (top end minimum) versus a mid range 80kg lifter? Same for 50m race, same for any race distance whatsoever. Both are elite athletes but there’s a reason 100m sprinters rarely weigh more than 85-90kg, the trade off between mobility and weight offsets the benefits and that’s in an anaerobic sport where there is no change in direction. Think of Adama Traore, he can basically just kick the ball and sprint after it and he is the only player I can think of who is bulky (and that said he’s actually still way under the weight Depay was).
For the record I never said Depay was stupidly rapid but he was fast enough. Acceleration and speed with elite athletes is basically about %of fast twitch fibres (Bale is a great example of this in his youth as he was documented to have a high% of fast twitch for his age, lean as a greyhound but so rapid off the mark and at full speed) but again you can build them and it’s trainable.
Think of how much a 5kg muscle gain would affect reaction time, touch, ability to turn and general fatigue over 90mins. I have no doubt Depay’s gym numbers were never higher but he looked sluggish and was carrying far too much weight - especially contrasted to how he looks now (7kg lighter apparently).
These are all people with a high % of fast twitch fibers. Of course for them the lower mass(and usually and significantly, height) means increases reaction times. You are right about stamina, but only comes into play over long distances(30 meters+). Over 10 meters? Not so much
Lukaku, Haaland, young Zlatan, Yaya, Adriano, Cristiano, Bale, Ronaldo....
And we're talking a 5kg gain, not 20...
Only in the eredivisie
Yep. And then Bale bulked up and it didn't slow him any. Because more muscle mass meant more fast twitch fibers. Memphis never had a high % of them, relative to his peers. At least not against PL players
Not much. It's a 5Kg gain. Unless he was overweight relative to his body type, it wouldn't have affected him that much
Sources about his current weight?
1st part. Not much but the mid range weightlifter would still win. It’s fine margins in elite sport. Look at NFL 60 yard dash, fastest guys usually around 100m sprinter weight, not heavier because it’s detrimental.
Lukaku great example. Look how much better he was when he shifted the weight again. None of the others were as built out - Ibra, Cristiano, Bale were all super strong but they could also carry the muscle more effectively with their frame. Again though, both Cristiano and Bale were lighter than Depay (which once more backs up my point) I’m assuming Ibra was heavier but he was never known for being quick so not sure why he was included. Even Haaland who is huge is only 88kg (Dortmund website). Again it’s all fine margins.
5kg is a massive amount of muscle weight to gain - it’s insane and so much it can’t all have been muscle given the time period. I genuinely don’t see how you don’t think it was an issue (as I said there were also other issues) given his general build. On that note I remember Lukaku saying he’d been gyming too much the season after the WC and he was horrendous after adding less muscle than Depay.
Edit. On source it’s just listed as 78kg across every site I can see (5+) so assume relatively accurate.
According to our fanbase he is an absolute donkey, just like Lukaku!
The improvement mostly comes down to stamina. Which of course, weight has a significant impact on that
Peak Zlatan was explosive, easily able to shed defenders with his first step and change of pace. Which is more important than pace when it comes to dribbling
Depends how long it took, but for a professional athlete at that level, not so much. With their diet and access to top level facilities and trainers, it's really not that big a deal
Question is whether his build couldn't cope with the extra muscles, but if that were the case he'd have suffered a lot of injuries. I didn't say it wasn't an issue, i said it wasn't the reason for his lack of elite explosiveness and pace
Yeah, those aren't very trustworthy usually...
It was a bit of both with us. He was too slow in the feet/mind for the PL and his technical ability didn't stand out either. So neither was he excelling in taking defenders on from wide nor did his play in and around the box fool any defenders. While it's clear that with his lack of true pace he's suited to play down the middle, I don't think he'd have been a success
(at that time) with us either way. Everything about him at United screamed of mediocrity. And I'd be interested to see if he keeps his level up for Barcelona, which is a step up from the French league.
Good for him that he has managed to turn his career around though, could have disappeared into irrelevance. It's funny that when martial joined us he looked 10 times the player Memphis did. And now the latter has kicked on and Martial is struggling.
(at that time) with us either way. Everything about him at United screamed of mediocrity. And I'd be interested to see if he keeps his level up for Barcelona, which is a step up from the French league.
Good for him that he has managed to turn his career around though, could have disappeared into irrelevance. It's funny that when martial joined us he looked 10 times the player Memphis did. And now the latter has kicked on and Martial is struggling.
It's brilliant to see how much he has improved, now he is leading the attack of one of the best clubs and also one of the strong national team.
Flawless display for us against Midgetland. Thats all I really remember of him playing. I remember not wanting him to leave at the time but I'm like that with most players so it's not like I had any sort of wise premonition of his future levels.
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Equalled Cruijff for international goals. Will easily be our all time topscorer if he keeps this up.
Btw, he might be the closest thing i've seen to Francesco Totti in terms of skillset and playing style
.....I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HATE that I can't even enjoy watching him play
.....I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HATE that I can't even enjoy watching him play
I just go back to us having a very different understanding human anatomy. I’d also encourage you to read up on muscle building + timelines because 5kg is a massive amount and I’m amazed you don’t realise that.
peak Zlatan weight is somewhere in the low to mid 90kgs, if you think of the size difference between him and Depay and then think Depay was 85kgs surely you get the issue. If Haaland is 88kg, Pogba is 84kg and Depay was 85kg you must realise how carrying the extra weight, even if pure muscle would affect his game. At best (ignoring his frame size) he’d have slightly better straight line speed and acceleration which isn’t particularly helpful in football at the cost of mobility, reaction speed, change of direction, dribbling speed.
re injuries actually it’s the opposite, usually a player will bulk out major muscle groups in order to avoid injuries in contact sport. Again please do some basic research on this. Memphis just bulked too much.
re source for his weight, it’s also listed as that on Barca’s official website so I am correct. Dismiss away but you’re running out of wiggle room.
What!? I thought Totti was an incredible passer?Btw, he might be the closest thing i've seen to Francesco Totti in terms of skillset and playing style
.....I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY HATE that I can't even enjoy watching him play