[JaffyJoe]

He looks awful. No intelligence, too stocky, can't beat players one on one, not aggressive enough. I hadn't watched him before he got here so i vowed to judge him on what I've seen and he has been awful. If he was playing better Rooney would be on the bench but he has been just as bad. I expect him to improve because he is a pretty good technically. He needs to lose some muscle so he can be more agile. His decision making needs to improve to. I assume the PSV team was built around him so he is having to adjust but he has been awful.

 

[sun_tzu]

He looks awful. No intelligence, too stocky, can't beat players one on one, not aggressive enough. I hadn't watched him before he got here so i vowed to judge him on what I've seen and he has been awful. If he was playing better Rooney would be on the bench but he has been just as bad. I expect him to improve because he is a pretty good technically. He needs to lose some muscle so he can be more agile. His decision making needs to improve to. I assume the PSV team was built around him so he is having to adjust but he has been awful.

187lbs (85kg) and 176cm...

http://www.football365.com/news/depay-i-have-put-on-5kg-at-manchester-united

“Since I joined Manchester United I’ve gained five kilos. And that’s not fat, huh. Only muscle mass. It’s pretty bizarre. It’s also due to the heavy rhythm in England. I now weigh 85 kilos.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...er-league-footballers-overweight-bmi-10276159

he certainly seems one of the stockier players around - though you can only imagine the club have put him on a programme to gain the weight so they must feel it will benefit him in the long run?

 

[glazed]

187lbs (85kg) and 176cm...

http://www.football365.com/news/depay-i-have-put-on-5kg-at-manchester-united



http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...er-league-footballers-overweight-bmi-10276159

he certainly seems one of the stockier players around - though you can only imagine the club have put him on a programme to gain the weight so they must feel it will benefit him in the long run?

Didn't Shaw put on a few pounds when he arrived too?

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Didn't Shaw put on a few pounds when he arrived too?

Yes but that wasn't muscle, just pure pork chops

 

[JohnnyLaw]

I believe Januzaj, Pereira and Lingard have the tools to become good players. They need time to put it all together. At the same time I don’t think Memphis has those tools (movement and shooting is not enough)- he has to improve a lot of aspects of his game to become a regular for us. You’re right, he has the time. But I’d rather give more chances to the other young players I mentioned than him. It’s a question which player is worth investing in.

I'm curious to hear what these tools are that you believe they all supposedly have that Memphis doesn't. If anything Memphis is by far the most well rounded of the four, which isn't everything of course or Ronaldo would be a better player than Messi, but I think his strenghts are greater than those of his peers in this example. It's strange to me that you'd find Memphis, the only of the four who's achieved any kind of success, the least worthy of investing in.

 

[glazed]

Yes but that wasn't muscle, just pure pork chops

Nah he was ripped

 

[glazed]

In my head I always rate players by natural ability and then by character - the latter of which can be lost and acquired to some extent.

So Ronaldo would be a 9/10. Gazza would be a 10/2. Darren Fletcher would be a 5/10. Ravel Morrison 8/1 etc

Memphis is a 7/5. He needs to be an 7/8 to succeed here. Fair?

 

[Roman Bellic]

In my head I always rate players by natural ability and then by character - the latter of which can be lost and acquired to some extent.

So Ronaldo would be a 9/10. Gazza would be a 10/2. Darren Fletcher would be a 5/10. Ravel Morrison 8/1 etc

Memphis is a 7/5. He needs to be an 7/8 to succeed here. Fair?

What do you find off about his character, just out of curiosity ?

 

[glazed]

What do you find off about his character, just out of curiosity ?

Partly his manner on the pitch suggests he's not working especially hard to find form. Partly rumour mill.

 

[Roman Bellic]

If anything, i'd attribute his poor performances to lack of confidence and being overwhelmed by the physicality of the league, and not laziness.

He's been frustrating to watch this season, and I've called for Ashley Young to replace him a couple of times, in certain games, but i was always under the impression that as a young player in a new league, that is kind of what you should expect. I was wrong. The verdict is out already - he is not good enough, it seems.

 

[El-Manos]

If he turns this around, (and there is a good chance that he will) a lot of people will look like fools on here. He is 21 years old, adapting to the toughest and most competitive league in the world. Saying he is not doing well at the moment is only fair but claiming he is already finished at United and will never be good enough is ridiculous.

 

[Kill 'em all]

This forum feels like De Gea all over again.

 

[NL Max]

Partly his manner on the pitch suggests he's not working especially hard to find form. Partly rumour mill.

His manners on the pitch were the same for PSV, he rarely had to track back after losing the ball and he didn't smile alot. He did defensive duties in the big games but he was the main man offensively so he was relieved of tracking back usually as he'd offer more going forward on the break. He will need to improve on this obviously, for now it really is one of his weak points.

I can understand that for people who didn't know much about him before he transferred to Manchester United it's easy to buy into the rumour mill, but I am still convinced his attitude is one of his (if not, the) strong point. I just think he's an easy target to be lauded as having a bad attitude (since he used to have one and also looks like it), the same happened in Holland yet he rarely made the news for doing stupid things. Especially since he made the first team of PSV he progressed on and off the pitch like you expect from a top talent.

I do think that he's a type that needs a boot up the arse every once in a while, but Memphis is very grounded in the fact that he knows he hasn't made it yet. I doubt he's sulking for being benched, I'm sure he knows fully well he hasn't been good enough. He has confidence in himself and he's one of the players that always gives it all in training, I don't think I've ever heard of him slacking during training. He really lives by the motto he has tattoo'd on his chest: Dream Chaser, I doubt his dreams end with a spot in the Manchester United reserves. Memphis has a plan in his head for how he wants his carreer to turn out and so far he's taken every step with relative ease untill his transfer, now he's hit his first big hurdle which he struggled with in his carreer. I doubt he'll give up though, I cannot wait for him to adapt to the PL and show that he's already a better player than he's shown so far.

 

[podurban2]

He looks awful. No intelligence, too stocky, can't beat players one on one, not aggressive enough. I hadn't watched him before he got here so i vowed to judge him on what I've seen and he has been awful. If he was playing better Rooney would be on the bench but he has been just as bad. I expect him to improve because he is a pretty good technically. He needs to lose some muscle so he can be more agile. His decision making needs to improve to. I assume the PSV team was built around him so he is having to adjust but he has been awful.

This is an inaccurate statement. Rooney will always be played since he is the captain and Van Gaal has stated so.

 

[acnumber9]

If he turns this around, (and there is a good chance that he will) a lot of people will look like fools on here. He is 21 years old, adapting to the toughest and most competitive league in the world. Saying he is not doing well at the moment is only fair but claiming he is already finished at United and will never be good enough is ridiculous.

And if he doesn't then there will be as many fools on the other side. Most people here criticising Depay are doing so based on what he's shown so far rather than what he may do in future.

 

[Devil may care]

Lots of speculating but he's hardly the first player to come to the PL from another league and have a difficult first season. I think the 2 key issues are reaction time and workrate.

He's used to having much more time on the ball to decide what he wants to do, in the PL defenders are all over you the minute you get the ball and he hasn't gotten up to speed with that yet. He also needs to realize that whatever special privileges he had at PSV regarding not tracking back don't exist here.

 

[K2K]

If anything, i'd attribute his poor performances to lack of confidence and being overwhelmed by the physicality of the league, and not laziness.

He's been frustrating to watch this season, and I've called for Ashley Young to replace him a couple of times, in certain games, but i was always under the impression that as a young player in a new league, that is kind of what you should expect. I was wrong. The verdict is out already - he is not good enough, it seems.

Quite honestly, its too quick for a verdict either way.

Lets be honest, he's performed well in a Dutch league that is quite poor, and there have been more talents than not from that league that have failed to show the same in much better leagues, especially recently with talents like Luuk de Jong, Ryan Babel etc. People with concerns have valid ones based simply on probabilities.

Alternatively so, he was one of the most sought young talents in European football and has done well for his NT, and one would hope that he goes on to be a big star.

In simple words, his career here can go either. The problem is that people want to simply make an opinion early on, so that if opinion turns out true , they can "call it". The honest truth is that it can go either, either as a success or not. We all dont really know yet.

 

[K2K]

His manners on the pitch were the same for PSV, he rarely had to track back after losing the ball and he didn't smile alot. He did defensive duties in the big games but he was the main man offensively so he was relieved of tracking back usually as he'd offer more going forward on the break. He will need to improve on this obviously, for now it really is one of his weak points.

I can understand that for people who didn't know much about him before he transferred to Manchester United it's easy to buy into the rumour mill, but I am still convinced his attitude is one of his (if not, the) strong point. I just think he's an easy target to be lauded as having a bad attitude (since he used to have one and also looks like it), the same happened in Holland yet he rarely made the news for doing stupid things. Especially since he made the first team of PSV he progressed on and off the pitch like you expect from a top talent.

I do think that he's a type that needs a boot up the arse every once in a while, but Memphis is very grounded in the fact that he knows he hasn't made it yet. I doubt he's sulking for being benched, I'm sure he knows fully well he hasn't been good enough. He has confidence in himself and he's one of the players that always gives it all in training, I don't think I've ever heard of him slacking during training. He really lives by the motto he has tattoo'd on his chest: Dream Chaser, I doubt his dreams end with a spot in the Manchester United reserves. Memphis has a plan in his head for how he wants his carreer to turn out and so far he's taken every step with relative ease untill his transfer, now he's hit his first big hurdle which he struggled with in his carreer. I doubt he'll give up though, I cannot wait for him to adapt to the PL and show that he's already a better player than he's shown so far.

Dont really care about the smiling, but they are very few players in the modern game with the license to have such a laissez faire to defending, even attackers, especially in this league. Thats not something that really requires above normal skill, its just something you just do .

He might be more talented than his respective rivals for that position, but United has always been more than the some parts. One of our best partnerships last season was Daley Blind as LB and Ashley Young as a LW, and one of the biggest reasons it worked so well was they could cover for each so well, Young is defensively sound and Blind has good attacking qualities. Individually neither is the best in the world in either position, but together they worked really well.

Personally, I'd start Lingard , and like with ADM last season, have Depay prove that he deserves to be in the team, both in an attacking and defensive viewpoint. If he works it, and shows a desire to improve on that, and takes the opportunity when given(Because Lingard like Young last season will not make it easy) , great. If not , then that will be a pity.

 

[Roman Bellic]

Quite honestly, its too quick for a verdict either way.

Lets be honest, he's performed well in a Dutch league that is quite poor, and there have been more talents than not from that league that have failed to show the same in much better leagues, especially recently with talents like Luuk de Jong, Ryan Babel etc. People with concerns have valid ones based simply on probabilities.

Alternatively so, he was one of the most sought young talents in European football and has done well for his NT, and one would hope that he goes on to be a big star.

In simple words, his career here can go either. The problem is that people want to simply make an opinion early on, so that if opinion turns out true , they can "call it". The honest truth is that it can go either, either as a success or not. We all dont really know yet.

Which is why people need to give him time, barely 4 months and he's not good enough?

He wasn't signed because he performed well in the Dutch League - that normally earns you a transfer to a mid table/5th placed team. He was the focal point in that championship winning PSV team. Surely that must count for more? That kind of talent doesn't just disappear after 3-4 months, He's already achieved a lot in his career, and he's only 21.

Don't even get me started on the foolish assumptions based on his appearance,fashion sense and lifestyle. Arrant nonsense.

I'm all for criticisms aimed at his performances, but that should be it really(after 3-4 months), this thread shouldn't be divided into Pro-Memphis and Anti-Memphis, we shouldn't have people patiently waiting to say "I told you so" or "I called it" if a player fails.

Makes you wonder how Martial would've been treated if he had a slow start as well.

 

[K2K]

Which is why people need to give him time, barely 4 months and he's not good enough?

He wasn't signed because he performed well in the Dutch League - that normally earns you a transfer to a mid table/5th placed team. He was the focal point in that championship winning PSV team. Surely that must count for more? That kind of talent doesn't just disappear after 3-4 months, He's already achieved a lot in his career, and he's only 21.

Don't even get me started on the foolish assumptions based on his appearance,fashion sense and lifestyle. Arrant nonsense.

I'm all for criticisms aimed at his performances, but that should be it really(after 3-4 months), this thread shouldn't be divided into Pro-Memphis and Anti-Memphis, we shouldn't have people patiently waiting to say "I told you so" or "I called it" if a player fails.

Makes you wonder how Martial would've been treated if he had a slow start as well.

It goes both ways though.

I have seen some call him "Another Dutch Eredivise fraud", and then there is the polar opposite gang, who thinks its just a a matter of time before he is world class. Both are far too soon, I'm firmly in the I dont know camp.

What I feel is fair though is to question his current performances, which this thread is for, but people instead want to use that draw conclusions about his career will pan out.

 

[glazed]

He really lives by the motto he has tattoo'd on his chest: Dream Chaser, I doubt his dreams end with a spot in the Manchester United reserves. Memphis has a plan in his head for how he wants his carreer to turn out and so far he's taken every step with relative ease untill his transfer, now he's hit his first big hurdle which he struggled with in his carreer. I doubt he'll give up though, I cannot wait for him to adapt to the PL and show that he's already a better player than he's shown so far.

I think this is very good analysis. I also think it is very difficult to move to the Premier League and retain both flair and reliability. You have to be approaching world class to do that. It will take 2 years for him to achieve that, if he has the character to step up and achieve it at all. That is really the big question for me. I hope he answers it positively but not everyone has what it takes to do so.

 

[El-Manos]

And if he doesn't then there will be as many fools on the other side. Most people here criticising Depay are doing so based on what he's shown so far rather than what he may do in future.

I repeat, it is fair to say he hasn't been exceptional by any means. Still, he has shown glimpses of quality and his stats are actually not bad all things considered. I'm not claiming he will be a world class player but the talent is there, no doubt about that. United supporters have always been behind young players, I don't see why we should change that attitude now all of a sudden.

 

[acnumber9]

I repeat, it is fair to say he hasn't been exceptional by any means. Still, he has shown glimpses of quality and his stats are actually not bad all things considered. I'm not claiming he will be a world class player but the talent is there, no doubt about that. United supporters have always been behind young players, I don't see why we should change that attitude now all of a sudden.

You don't really need to repeat. His stats against some of the worst teams we've played this season don't really ease worries.

 

[Sereques]

over criticized yes... but at first he was over hyped, hopefully we will find a balance

He wasn't over hyped. the dude was close to Nazario Ronaldo's record in the dutch league. He came with the hype.

 

[NinjaFletch]

This forum feels like De Gea all over again.

Nah De Gea was getting a lot of shit from the media, but got a lot of support from the fans.

The Memphis situation is basically in reverse.

 

[FacerTheRed]

Sounds weird but i'm glad Memphis is getting this kind of criticism & pressure. Giving his attitude, it will just make him more focused and to prove the haters wrong that he is a good player. Its just a matter will the pressure turn him into dust or diamond, but i have no doubt for him. Just the attitude alone will stimulate him to push himself to another level. Zaha for example, had the flair & potential to be a decent player but never had the attitude to push himself even further.

 

[We need an rvn]

Just been reading an interview with him (assuming it's with the dutch national squad) where he talks about how he's put on 5kg since joining united - has now hired a personal chef to make sure he eats right. He's stated not that he's put on fat or eaten rubbish, but put on muscle

To put this into perspective how big he now is
height = 1.76m or 5'9
weight = 85kg or 187lbs or 13st 4lb

to put this further into perspective
Messi = 1.70m or 5'7 and weighs 67kg or 10st 7
Ronaldo = 1.85cm or 6ft and weights 80kg or 12st 8
Neymar = 1.74m or 5'8 and weighs 68kg or 10st 9
Hazard = 1.73m or 5'8 and weighs 74kg or 11st 9

and lastly Charlie Adam = 1.85m or 6ft and weights 82kg (but yes, i know muscle weighs more than fat)

so Memphis is basically 2 inches taller in height than Messi but weights 2 1/2 stone more, pretty much as tall as Neymar 2 1/2 stone heiver, as tall as Hazard (who i think is a pretty "stocky" player) but still weighs 1 1/2 stone more than him) and weighs 2kg / 8lb more than Ronaldo who is 10cm or 3 inches taller

a few months back, i don't remember which Dutch "legend" said this, said Memphis is build is looking more and more like a boxer / athlete than a footballer and i kinda disagreed with him, but looking at the stats above (and yes i know bone density etc plays a part), perhaps it is time the lad tones done and this is obviously impacting his speed / stamina

 

[Rossa]

He just looks far too slow, yet he tries to play as if he is fast. It isn't working.

 

[Cerpin]

Just been reading an interview with him (assuming it's with the dutch national squad) where he talks about how he's put on 5kg since joining united - has now hired a personal chef to make sure he eats right. He's stated not that he's put on fat or eaten rubbish, but put on muscle

To put this into perspective how big he now is
height = 1.76m or 5'9
weight = 85kg or 187lbs or 13st 4lb

to put this further into perspective
Messi = 1.70m or 5'7 and weighs 67kg or 10st 7
Ronaldo = 1.85cm or 6ft and weights 80kg or 12st 8
Neymar = 1.74m or 5'8 and weighs 68kg or 10st 9
Hazard = 1.73m or 5'8 and weighs 74kg or 11st 9

and lastly Charlie Adam = 1.85m or 6ft and weights 82kg (but yes, i know muscle weighs more than fat)

so Memphis is basically 2 inches taller in height than Messi but weights 2 1/2 stone more, pretty much as tall as Neymar 2 1/2 stone heiver, as tall as Hazard (who i think is a pretty "stocky" player) but still weighs 1 1/2 stone more than him) and weighs 2kg / 8lb more than Ronaldo who is 10cm or 3 inches taller

a few months back, i don't remember which Dutch "legend" said this, said Memphis is build is looking more and more like a boxer / athlete than a footballer and i kinda disagreed with him, but looking at the stats above (and yes i know bone density etc plays a part), perhaps it is time the lad tones done and this is obviously impacting his speed / stamina

Yep, 85 kg sounds heavy for a footballer his height. Nani is listed as 66 kg (not sure how accurate that is though...) -- he's ripped, and the same height as Memphis. It definitely looks like it's affecting his agility.

 

[Ballache]

He's put on 5kgs of muscle in 4 months? Bullshit, at least 2kgs of it is fat. Not even bodybuilders put on that much pure muscle in a year, let alone 4 months. He needs to lose weight IMO, he's too heavy for a footballer.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I think Memphis is stuggling with his stamina, due to the added weight and the quicker pace of the league.

He probably isn't used too tracking back so much either, so it's all been a new learning curve. I know that when you are really tired and lacking breathe your decision making goes out the window, your strength and balance also goes funny.

To me that's what it seems like, I think he needs to tone down on the muscle as he is already strong, but the extra mass is giving him a negative effect. He definitely is looking slower/heavier than he used too and I really do think thats why.

 

[Borys]

He's put on 5kgs of muscle in 4 months? Bullshit, at least 2kgs of it is fat. Not even bodybuilders put on that much pure muscle in a year, let alone 4 months. He needs to lose weight IMO, he's too heavy for a footballer.

Yeah that's what I thought, rather unlikely that it's pure muscle. I wonder why would the club allow him to gain so much though.

 

[Ballache]

Yeah that's what I thought, rather unlikely that it's pure muscle. I wonder why would the club allow him to gain so much though.

That's very true, I don't get how they let him go up like that, surely these things are monitored? He really needs to lose about 7 kgs at least, in comparison Smalling is 81kgs at 192cm! and he's massive.

 

[Kostur]

This forum feels like De Gea all over again.

DDG had to step in VDS shoes though, we haven't had a very good winger for a pretty long time.

If the situations are alike then it's a worry as our expectations were pretty huge after VDS being used to him being a world class keeper whereas I don't think we've had any irrational expectations when it comes to wingers.

 

[sun_tzu]

Yeah that's what I thought, rather unlikely that it's pure muscle. I wonder why would the club allow him to gain so much though.

1kg a month is possible - though typically when people have not trained much before and they start training intensively - you would expect that he was in at least reasonable shape before hand
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ask-the-ripped-dude-how-much-muscle-can-i-put-on-naturally.html

Provided that they follow a sensible, structured diet and training program, a 150-pound beginner fitness enthusiast in Aragon's model can potentially gain 18-27 pounds of lean muscle per year. A 170-pound intermediate fitness enthusiast can potentially gain 10-15 pounds of muscle.

so either he is juicing, is natural physical freak or he is putting on not as much pure muscle as is claimed would be the most likely conclusions
Of course his training will still be structured around cardio etc as well and one would imagine that if he has gained that much weight under the guidence / direction of the club then part of his training now will be about adjusting to his new physique as he has more weight etc to carry.
Hopefully he is not the new anderson!

 

[R'hllor]

Saw somewhere that he will hire personal chef,to help out with his diet. I kinda like that,he has issue with something and will put some effort to fix it.People talked all kinds of stuff about Shaw last season,in summer he hired a personal trainer and before injury we could all see results.

 

[sun_tzu]

Saw somewhere that he will hire personal chef,to help out with his diet. I kinda like that,he has issue with something and will put some effort to fix it.People talked all kinds of stuff about Shaw last season,in summer he hired a personal trainer and before injury we could all see results.

in his interview about gaining 5kg - he already has hired the chef

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

he certainly seems one of the stockier players around - though you can only imagine the club have put him on a programme to gain the weight so they must feel it will benefit him in the long run?

Problem is it doesn't allways work out. Raptors center Jonas Valanciunas in his second year in the NBA was put on a bulking program to improve his physicality with the intention of making him more dominant in the paint, however the unintentional consequences of his gain in mass was that at 7 ft, he lost some of his natural athleticism which saw a decline in his performances.

 

[R'hllor]

in his interview about gaining 5kg - he already has hired the chef

Oh,sack a chef then?

 

[Beachryan]

Thing with muscle mass is that it's really not very helpful in football, because stamina is king. His height/weight ratio isn't weird at all compared to fast, agile American Football players - in fact he's on the light side - but despite them being faster and stronger than him, it's all short burst, lots of rest.

I feel like a lot of younger players bulk up, and then thin down again as they realise it hasn't really helped them.

I think the one exception might be CBs - because they don't actually have to run very often in a match.