You seem to think I believe Lingard had amazing potential, I don't. As I said earlier, unless he improves and adds to his game, he won't be more than a squad player. What I said is Memphis doing what he has in the eridivise but struggling in the PL doesn't point to having great potential either. He's used his physical superiority in the Dutch league, it's never going to be enough here. So he's in the same boat, improve massively or fail.
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Yeah I also don't think he has the ability of someone like Martial who has amazing technique, dribbling ability, etc... but I think Memphis is capable of individual magic more than Lingard is. I believe his play at the Eredivisie level showed that, if you ignore the instances that showed his physical superiority. For example, free kicks surely show this and they have nothing to do with the physical side of the game.
FKs are just 1 aspect and unless you're a beckham/juninho, it doesn't matter much. I'm more interested in his qualities in open play which need a lot of work unfortunately.
I agree with people who say he has the potential, there's a good player in him but for whatever reason it's not coming out at all. Maybe under a new manager.
And on the basis of last season Young was an equal or better player than di Maria, but it doesn't work that way does it?
I really think that you're vastly oversimplifying his success by putting it down to mere physical attributes. That doesn't explain why he was able to successfully establish himself for his national team neither. Most players struggle at coming in to the league but we haven't really given him a chance to redeem himself which I think is fair as other players have performed better. But looking at Firmino and how the faith that Liverpool have shown him is finally starting to pay off should give hope to those believing that he can turn it around. However, as some already have said I think it might take a new manager coming in before Depay can turn it around. I think that the style of football we play will continue to hold him back.
Weird comparison. One, Di Maria excelled in an even better league so any doubt was down to his ability to adapt not his actual quality. Two, Di Maria did show his quality for the first couple of months. If Depay had been even half as good as Di Maria was in his first two/three months then there would be very little doubts raised over his potential.
This debate was all over the Newbies forum.
Memphis Depay hasn't shown anything that suggests he is a player who can represent the levels demanded by Manchester United / and or any big, competitive club in the Premiership. Personally, I think the guy is hugely over-rated, and is struggling both on and off the pitch to represent the "talent and potential" he allegedly has. LVG stated that he was one of the most coveted young players in Europe. Well, if he is, that doesn't say much for the quality progressing across Europe's emerging players.
His application to his game is dreadful... consistently. I have no idea where his head is at, and I question his basic skill and talent anyway. poor player, and unless he has a huge, and I mean huge improvement next season, he will not be at OT for very long. Guy looks a very poor player. And his attitude doesn't help.
Memphis Depay hasn't shown anything that suggests he is a player who can represent the levels demanded by Manchester United / and or any big, competitive club in the Premiership. Personally, I think the guy is hugely over-rated, and is struggling both on and off the pitch to represent the "talent and potential" he allegedly has. LVG stated that he was one of the most coveted young players in Europe. Well, if he is, that doesn't say much for the quality progressing across Europe's emerging players.
His application to his game is dreadful... consistently. I have no idea where his head is at, and I question his basic skill and talent anyway. poor player, and unless he has a huge, and I mean huge improvement next season, he will not be at OT for very long. Guy looks a very poor player. And his attitude doesn't help.
question to the memphis haters. do you remember Luke Shaw's first season with us? He went from looking like the best left back in the world (or potential anyway) at Southampton to one who was worth 20% of what we paid for him. Look at his second season with us (pre-injury)
Give memphis another year before we write him off. said this before - if anyone on here is 21, new to the country and with the weight of United on your shoulders let me know how you're getting on as pretty sure you'd be struggling too.
I honestly think it's a case of finding his feet in Manchester, getting used to playing in a higher quality league and understanding the hard work he needs to put in to achieve his potential.
Give memphis another year before we write him off. said this before - if anyone on here is 21, new to the country and with the weight of United on your shoulders let me know how you're getting on as pretty sure you'd be struggling too.
I honestly think it's a case of finding his feet in Manchester, getting used to playing in a higher quality league and understanding the hard work he needs to put in to achieve his potential.
that's harsh, every player might struggle being proven or unproven, Dimaria came here as a worldclass player and struggled as well for some reason, it can happen to anyone and more so to youngsters..
I don't think anyone who worked with him as ever questioned his work ethic. It's probably more about understanding how to work smart than to work hard. But he has made progress, first his timing was off, he was out of sync with the pace in the PL. He made his moves like he would in the eredivisie, and thought the hard part of the job was done, and then got surprised by the defender getting another foot in or another defender already closing him down. In the eredivisie if you pull off a move an defender, you can just chill a bit and take your time to aim for a teammate's eyebrow in the distance. In the PL you've got to prepare for the next move before the previous one is finished. So he couldn't relie on his moves and tricks, but had to change his own pace moving and thinking. Of course that's a big change and undermining confidence. I thinks he has made that change to a decent extend and will continue to finish that change.
The other thing is his tendency to have a 'mourning moment' after a move or pass didn't work out. He needs to overthink it, and after 1 or 2 seconds he realizes he's got to track back. But then it's already too late to do anything more useful than just jogging back. He needs to work that out of his system. I'm sure it's not arrogance, indifference or laziness, but it isn't good either.
... well, it's an open forum and we all will have respective opinion... but those comments are based on what I have seen. I'm actually quite surprised that it seems many feel he is the type of player we want at the club. I see this far too often.
There isn't anything wrong with buying a player and it doesn't work out... as these things happen. But just stating that a player will be better because he is here longer doesn't equate with me. Too many average players (in my opinion...) have been at the club, given time and they haven't made an impact, and become top-players. Anderson, Nani.. Kagawa, Gibson.... Cleverley.... now Fellani, Mata.. Dempay.
All decent players, who occasionally have their headline performances. But that's not enough for United, not if we wish to be a top team again. All of the above play consistently at a certain level.
Depay doesn't even have occasional performance to reference. Club Bruges in September? Come on folks... we're not a charity for young players to develop. He's not a youth team player, through the ranks etc. He's £36m, with ridiculous salary-per-week. I'm not going to sympathise with the lad... he's a big boy now. Nothing personal, but he needs to show some true quality because thus far he has failed rather miserably. If I'm wrong, tell me why.
There isn't anything wrong with buying a player and it doesn't work out... as these things happen. But just stating that a player will be better because he is here longer doesn't equate with me. Too many average players (in my opinion...) have been at the club, given time and they haven't made an impact, and become top-players. Anderson, Nani.. Kagawa, Gibson.... Cleverley.... now Fellani, Mata.. Dempay.
All decent players, who occasionally have their headline performances. But that's not enough for United, not if we wish to be a top team again. All of the above play consistently at a certain level.
Depay doesn't even have occasional performance to reference. Club Bruges in September? Come on folks... we're not a charity for young players to develop. He's not a youth team player, through the ranks etc. He's £36m, with ridiculous salary-per-week. I'm not going to sympathise with the lad... he's a big boy now. Nothing personal, but he needs to show some true quality because thus far he has failed rather miserably. If I'm wrong, tell me why.
agree with a lot of what you said. the highlighted part though I think you'll find with a number of the younger players (wingers in particular) until they learn playing for the first XI against men in their 20s / 30s is very different from playing in the U21s and reserves. Yes, Memphis played for a few seasons in the Ere divisie but the pace of that compared to ours, like you said, is huge.
Hopefully he'll have a good pre-season like Shaw and he'll come back a player with a different attitude.
There is definitely talent there, it's just he's such a confidence-type player.
Needs to work on his mentality, which will come with time.
Needs to work on his mentality, which will come with time.
If we have a manager that believes in him next season, he will become a very good player.
Based on what qualities that he's shown? I don't understand posts that just assume because he cost £25m he must be talented.
This reminds me of Nani.
Huh? He's scored some good goals for us this season and has had a few great performances. The ability is there, he is just woefully inconsistent and when he isn't confident he is terrible. That's all down to play time and gaining confidence, which is why playing for the U-21s last night is perfect for him - and he played well.
People are too quick to label a player as shit, or world class. It's all black and white with a lot of fans, cut the kid some slack.
Who mentioned anything about the fee? He started really well and was on fire last few seasons.
If only.
His decision making will become the unmaking of him.
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He is actually incredibly consistent. Just not in a good way. These few great performances intrigue me. Aside from a game against the worst defence we've faced all season when did these occur?
I don't think it's a weird comparison at all as i'm not comparing their level as footballers, Di Maria was the finished article and a record signing while Memphis a promising but unproven talent. What i'm comparing is the situation of Memphis vs Lingard to Di Maria vs Young. You can't deny the parallells between Memphis and Di Marias first seasons with us, both coming off of sensational seasons prior to joining us, doing well initially and then went on to slowly but surely fading out before eventually finding themselves replaced by inferior talents who were deemed more balanced and fit the system better. As has been shown since his departure Di Marias talents vastly exceeds Youngs, just like I predict that Memphis would prove that he's a far superior talent to Lingard should he leave for another club in the summer.
Played well in both legs against Club Brugge and the first leg against PSV. Has been incredibly up and down since, unfortunately, considering it was ages ago. And I thought he played pretty well against Sheffield last month.
A few great performances? Apart from the game against Brugge where they gave him acres of space to operate in, which are these other great games? I'd count the split of games so fair as 1 great, maybe 5 acceptable-good and 20 very poor.
He hasn't been up and down at all... He's been consistently down. Way, way down.
He didn't start really well... He played a few decent games with a great game against Brugge who were awful. In terms of being on fire the last few seasons I'd argue that this is irrelevant; Afonso Alves was more effective in the Eredivisie.
To be honest all I've been looking for is any qualities he possesses that if worked on would make him a Premier League player. However he doesn't seem fast, he doesn't seem strong, he has poor decision making, he has a mediocre first touch, he can't beat a man and his technique seems average. Apart from a good right foot shot when he cuts inside and is given 10-15 yards space could anyone tell me why he is highly rated? What separates him and say Carlos Gil who is struggling to get in a relegated Villa side?
You're incredibly generous saying he's had a few great games. He had one great game against an awful team and some OK ones. The rest have been awful. If he played for anyone else no Utd fan would rate him.
So you're right over United's scouting system? He is awful and doesn't deserve to be in the Premier League? Crap. He's a 21 year old who moved from his place of birth for the first time. He has showed he can score goals and he has barely been given a game in the last few weeks. How is he expected to settle.
So is that why he was rated as one of the top u21 players around last year and scored almost 30 goals as a winger? Please. He may be struggling to adapt to the premier league and in particular, United's awful attack, but let's not pretend that he's the only one struggling in our team. He's got loads of potential and with time and in the right set up I have no doubt that he'll turn into a very good player one day.
Needs to play in the right set up. He has always been a really highly rated youngster at PSV, it's not like he came out of nowhere. And he scored almost 30 goals last season playing on the left, at the age of 20. It's incredibly stupid to write him off because he has struggled in his first season in the premier league, playing for a team with one of the most restrictive and slowest attacking plays in the league. Not everyone can play equally well or anywhere close to as well in both counter attacking systems and possession based systems. Especially not ours where nobody does anything except pass backwards.
Just read the thread, paying attention to those who've argued for patience. But anyway, this isn't mathematics. There's no absolute right or wrong, just opinion. Which of course you're entitled to. Those of us arguing for patience aren't wrong, either. If he's given the chance and matches his potential, we'll look like we made the right call. If he doesn't, we won't.
Also, I don't know why you've inflated his transfer fee to such a ludicrous degree. Quite honestly, that makes me suspicious. It's what rival fans do when they want to ridicule United. He cost nowhere near £36 million. He cost 28 million Euros, which is about £22 million. Surely you must have known this if you're a United fan.
What?
He's one of the top young wingers in all of Europe and most sought-after when we were signing him, and you're telling no one else would have rated him? That just doesn't make any sense.
Its not really people writing him off, its more people that never bought into the hype in the first place.
He should not be starting games for us. The only way to get back in must be through perfomances when he does get game time(Even if they are substitute appearances). We cant afford to carry passengers. We tried that with him earlier in the season, and it turned out to be a wasted sub as we had to haul him out at HT.
The opportunities are limited here at United. Just like with Zaha, a new manager doesnt mean things will get better. If Jose , who demands wingers that track back,arrives here and he gives similar kind of perfomances, he's a goner.
its ironic though.
When we signed Memphis, n.l max hyped him to ridiculous levels, while Koroux tried to dampen the Martial hype and lower expectations.
It should've been the opposite.
When we signed Memphis, n.l max hyped him to ridiculous levels, while Koroux tried to dampen the Martial hype and lower expectations.
It should've been the opposite.
Lets not pretend United's scouting system has been something particularly great recently. We've let obvious targets pass us by whilst hugely overpaying on the likes of Fellaini. It isn't that he's inconsistent or that he's just making poor decisions, it's that I can't see any positives or potential shining through.
Again I can't see any qualities to build on. If he was strong and fast but was making poor decisions, fair enough. If he had great technique but was getting pushed off the ball easily, fair enough. If he was missing easy chances but was getting into great positions, fair enough.
However I've seen absolutely nothing apart from a good right footed shot when there's no-one near him. If he were a 21 year old through our academy he'd be being loaned out to a League 1 side next year.
He was playing in a piss poor league. Check out their top scorers chart and try and tell me it's indicative of players good enough at the highest level with a straight face.
Imagine he'd signed for Liverpool. This forum would be full of people laughing at how bad he's been.
Even if he was quite decent we'd probably be laughing at him if he played for Liverpool.
No, he pretty much said that if he played for somebody else the way he plays for us we'd be laughing at the fee paid for him and wouldn't take anybody suggesting we should go for him serious.
If only.
His decision making will become the unmaking of him.
Looking at that image, you've got to wonder how he's messed up so badly. He either clips the ball into Schneiderlin's path, cuts back and pass into the space or fires the ball across for either Mata or Martial.
What he did was basically pass the ball straight to the Chelsea full back.
I want too see him in the team performing recently. We've clearly upped our tempo and getting the ball forward much quicker which will suit him massively.
Exactly. It's such a simple decision to make. Yet, he goes for one that was painfully more difficult and less effective.
To me, he did cost the draw vs Chelsea. Their chance came straight from Courtous' pass out. Had he just made a simple pass in, we could have scored/shot on goal/missed the goal completely - but at least we'd have been shaped up straight from the restart then.
Sure Blind slipped and other stuff happened - but for goodness sake look at the space Schneiderlin is in. It was 4v2 and he royally fecked it up. It's basic stuff he's messing up with.
I've defended him all season, and I desperately want him to do well but he really isn't helping himself. Hopefully next season he'll come good. This season has been such a write off.
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