Mats Moller Deahli

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WireRed said:
Despite my reservations on these sorts of deals, that quote sounds promising.

I genuinely hope the lad does the business and makes an impact here.
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Yep I hope we will also sign Van Helzen. Then we have three extremely talented youngsters in Pogba, MMD and Van Helsing for our future midfield.
 
RDCR07 said:
Yep I hope we will also sign Van Helzen. Then we have three extremely talented youngsters in Pogba, MMD and Van Helsing for our future midfield.
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Already signed made his debut for the under 18s at the weekend
 
I couldn't care less if our players are English, Norweigan or Timbuktuan; if they're good enough to play for United then we should give them that chance.
 
WireRed said:
I can't see how wanting English club's to promote predominantly English or at least British player's from their ranks instead of swathes of foreigners has brought such a reaction.

Some Italian club president branded the actions of English club's with these youngsters as likeable to "pirates", he's not far wrong to be honest because it's wrong. The club's that trained these guys are getting them snatched with little or no compensation.
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Assuming you watched Englands performance in the World Cup why would you wish that fate on the club you support?

Sure the top teams in this league scout and train local talent just like every other team does but to rely solely on English talent would be a terrible strategy that would result in mediocrity. All you have to do to see the result of that is make a list of all academy graduates United has produced over the last ten years, pick the best english eleven you can get from that, and realise that they would not stay in this league too long. They are just not good enough generally and the fact that a technically gifted young footballer like Wilshere is a rarity in England just confirms that.

The best players will make it at the club if they deserve to. Competition is just another hurdle that academy players will have to jump through to prove that they have what it takes to succeed, and if you cannot cope with the pressure of a Norwegian youth joining the squad then you have no place at a top football team. Nationality doesn't come into it, the goal is too ensure a competitive future and if a Brazilian talent is better than one from Manchester than that's just the way it has to be.

As far as the Italian comment about 'pirates' goes he would be better looking at his own league. Khouma Babacar was acquired by Fiorentina in much the same way that we have signed youngsters, and I'm sure there are much better examples than that but I really can't be bothered looking into it. French teams constantly sign young African players just the same as Spanish teams do the same with South American youths. It's part and parcel of football now and to fail to improve in this manner would be to stagnate. I would much prefer that we signed the next Iniesta from abroad as opposed to bringing through the next James Milner. Quality is always the most important factor.
 
WireRed said:
So it's wrong to want Manchester United to bring through English/local player's rather than always importing them from abroad? I don't think so.
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Where in your first post do you talk about nationality? You were cribbing about yet another young player who will make his impact years from now.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Where in your first post do you talk about nationality? You were cribbing about yet another young player who will make his impact years from now.
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Tongue in cheek, my friend. Even so, we have a lorry-load of foreign youngsters in our academy, not all of them will make it despite being brought here and they pose a risk of our own talent not getting their opportunity.

I'll pose a question, is it a good thing to have so many foreign boys in the MUFC academy? I think the fact Wes Brown was our last local lad to come through and earn a long-term place in SAF's plans answers that question.

I hope this lad fulfills the potential he's obviously got, but not every single junior we've added to our ranks over the last 5 years or so is going to fulfill their promise. It'd be foolish to think so. That's one reason I'd rather we stuck predominantly to developing our own pool of youngsters.

Anyway, this is the last time I'll touch on the topic in this thread because I don't want to play a part in de-railing the discussion on the boy again. This question needed answering I felt though.
 
Devil may care said:
New Manchester United signing Mats Moller Daehli is a 'little bit of Xavi and a little bit of Messi' says coach - Goal.com
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"Reserve team manager Solskjaer has been a key figure in enticing his countryman to Old Trafford, where he will link up with three other young Norwegians at the academy, Etzaz Hussain, Joshua King and Magnus Eikrem.

“I have seen the other Norwegian players over there and they will not make it at Man United, that is my opinion,” said Tveit. “Mats is different.”"
 
WireRed said:
Tongue in cheek, my friend. Even so, we have a lorry-load of foreign youngsters in our academy, not all of them will make it despite being brought here and they pose a risk of our own talent not getting their opportunity.

I'll pose a question, is it a good thing to have so many foreign boys in the MUFC academy? I think the fact Wes Brown was our last local lad to come through and earn a long-term place in SAF's plans answers that question.

I hope this lad fulfills the potential he's obviously got, but not every single junior we've added to our ranks over the last 5 years or so is going to fulfill their promise. It'd be foolish to think so. That's one reason I'd rather we stuck predominantly to developing our own pool of youngsters.

Anyway, this is the last time I'll touch on the topic in this thread because I don't want to play a part in de-railing the discussion on the boy again. This question needed answering I felt though.
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Tongue in cheek but hugely irrelevant. Fergie knows the potential the youngsters currently at the club much better than we do. So he's obviously in a much better position to decide whether what we have is actually good enough or whether it is but we can improve on it because a club like United never stands still. I really don't see why anyone would have a problem with United signing young talented footballers no matter where they come from. Fergie is doing what's best for UNITED not English football, and that's how it should be.
 
Sauxees Moi Hui said:
"Reserve team manager Solskjaer has been a key figure in enticing his countryman to Old Trafford, where he will link up with three other young Norwegians at the academy, Etzaz Hussain, Joshua King and Magnus Eikrem.

“I have seen the other Norwegian players over there and they will not make it at Man United, that is my opinion,” said Tveit. “Mats is different.”"
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Disagree with him. All king needs is luck with injuries and Magnus has more then enough potential to make it. Etzaz is well thought of and you never know
 
WireRed said:
Unless this kid from Norway has a condition that requires expensive, long-term treatment in order for him to play football professionally and he can't get it in his country, he's a totally different case altogether from Messi.

I can't see how wanting English club's to promote predominantly English or at least British player's from their ranks instead of swathes of foreigners has brought such a reaction.

Some Italian club president branded the actions of English club's with these youngsters as likeable to "pirates", he's not far wrong to be honest because it's wrong. The club's that trained these guys are getting them snatched with little or no compensation.
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You do write some utter crap. Some president grumbles because he looses a player that on many occasions his club lured from another club not many months before and you use it to back a stupid argument. Compensation paid to clubs for youngsters is quite recent, in the past a young player could chose to move any time they liked. (a better system IMO)

At 16 you can leave school and get a job or choose to continue education. Either way most of us would hope our kids would take the best job or pick the best College/University to give them the best possible future in their chose career path. Joining United's youth set up gives any youngster the best possible chance (as good as anywhere in the world) of making a damn good and well paid career in football, a dream that most of us would have snatched at given the chance. And you waffle on about piracy and poaching --- idiot!!!
 
WireRed said:
Tongue in cheek, my friend. Even so, we have a lorry-load of foreign youngsters in our academy, not all of them will make it despite being brought here and they pose a risk of our own talent not getting their opportunity.

I'll pose a question, is it a good thing to have so many foreign boys in the MUFC academy? I think the fact Wes Brown was our last local lad to come through and earn a long-term place in SAF's plans answers that question.

I hope this lad fulfills the potential he's obviously got, but not every single junior we've added to our ranks over the last 5 years or so is going to fulfill their promise. It'd be foolish to think so. That's one reason I'd rather we stuck predominantly to developing our own pool of youngsters.

Anyway, this is the last time I'll touch on the topic in this thread because I don't want to play a part in de-railing the discussion on the boy again. This question needed answering I felt though.
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Just because not many make it to the very top (ironically partly because of the previous generation Scholes Giggs etc having such a long and succesful time at the top) but think of the many ex-United youngsters who made it as pro-players - that is a more accurate way to judge our youth set-up.
They also get a pretty good education with the club and get to learn english; I am sure most of the young foreign lads would consider that an added bonus.
 
RedPhil1957 said:
You do write some utter crap. Some president grumbles because he looses a player that on many occasions his club lured from another club not many months before and you use it to back a stupid argument. Compensation paid to clubs for youngsters is quite recent, in the past a young player could chose to move any time they liked. (a better system IMO)

At 16 you can leave school and get a job or choose to continue education. Either way most of us would hope our kids would take the best job or pick the best College/University to give them the best possible future in their chose career path. Joining United's youth set up gives any youngster the best possible chance (as good as anywhere in the world) of making a damn good and well paid career in football, a dream that most of us would have snatched at given the chance. And you waffle on about piracy and poaching --- idiot!!!
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I can't imagine you feeling the same if we had our crown jewel, a player we've huge hopes for taken off us for a pittance due to the law being an ass.

Imagine if a foreign club poached Giggs before he could sign professional forms with us, we'd not be happy bunnies and rightfully so. Get off your high horse and see things from a perspective other than your own selfish viewpoint.

And why the insults? Gobshite!!!
 
WireRed said:
Wonderful, so now we've added another under-16 to our ranks who at the very earliest will establish himself in 2014. Just what we needed, we look a bit short of player's that fit that profile :rolleyes:
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:lol:
 
WireRed said:
I can't imagine you feeling the same if we had our crown jewel, a player we've huge hopes for taken off us for a pittance due to the law being an ass.

Imagine if a foreign club poached Giggs before he could sign professional forms with us, we'd not be happy bunnies and rightfully so. Get off your high horse and see things from a perspective other than your own selfish viewpoint.

And why the insults? Gobshite!!!
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are his club upset?
 
WireRed said:
I can't imagine you feeling the same if we had our crown jewel, a player we've huge hopes for taken off us for a pittance due to the law being an ass.

Imagine if a foreign club poached Giggs before he could sign professional forms with us, we'd not be happy bunnies and rightfully so. Get off your high horse and see things from a perspective other than your own selfish viewpoint.

And why the insults? Gobshite!!!
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Are you aware that Giggs started off playing youth football for Manchester City?

How do you feel about that bit of "poaching"?
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
Well done. :lol:
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Not really, everyone knows Giggs started off at City but crucially was not attatched to them contractually or provisionally unlike these blokes PL club's are getting their hands on. Giggs himself stated that City took him signing YTS forms for granted and never made him an offer until they realised United were hovering.
 
WireRed said:
Not really, everyone knows Giggs started off at City but crucially was not attatched to them contractually or provisionally unlike these blokes PL club's are getting their hands on. Giggs himself stated that City took him signing YTS forms for granted and never made him an offer until they realised United were hovering.
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None of these blokes we sign are contractually attached to their clubs. That is the thing. For example Macheda could not sign pro forms with Lazio because of the Italian rules. This isn't our fault.

And in any case with Deahli it looks like Staebak are happy with the deal. I don't see the point or the problem.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Are you aware that Giggs started off playing youth football for Manchester City?

How do you feel about that bit of "poaching"?
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I have read his biography - and that is a myth according to Giggsy himself. The book reads: "Dennis Schofield took me to train with them (City). Right from day one I hated it. I just didn't take to City

Preston were keen too - I enjoyed it much more than I had ever done at City. In the end it came down to a choice of 4 clubs - United, Preston, City and Bury - in that order of preferance. "

So basically City was his third choice - even after Preston
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
None of these blokes we sign are contractually attached to their clubs. That is the thing. For example Macheda could not sign pro forms with Lazio because of the Italian rules. This isn't our fault.

And in any case with Deahli it looks like Staebak are happy with the deal. I don't see the point or the problem.
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They sign provisional documents though, that's what Lens and Le Havre bitched about over Kakuta and Pogba being taken off them.

That's how they get a small sum in compensation rather than absolutely nothing as would be the case if the player's weren't in some way legally attached to their academies and were thus free agents.

That's where most of these cases differ from Giggs' and what makes Pogue's attempt to deride my argument futile.

I let this subject go last night, attempted to shut this debate off with my well wishes for the boy. Seems some are like a dog with a bone on this topic though, posing questions I feel compelled to answer through self-defence more than anything.
 
WireRed said:
I honestly couldn't care less if his club approved it or not, the fact is that nearly every youngster in our ranks that even remotely has a chance of making an impact in the first team is foreign.

Only Welbeck and Cleverley(like this kid especially) look the business from the local lad's at United at this moment, and even they are on loan whilst we pack our academy with foreign youths.

The kid may be a talent, none of us truly know, but I'd rather we brought through our own talent rather than constantly looking abroad, and in most cases, poaching off other club's.
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Perhaps there are no talented young players good enough to make the grade within the Manchester vicinity that we are allowed to recruit from? Im sure if there were available local players with the necessary potential, , they would be parachuted straight into the youth squad.

I would have thought thats the problem.
 
lysglimt said:
I have read his biography - and that is a myth according to Giggsy himself. The book reads: "Dennis Schofield took me to train with them (City). Right from day one I hated it. I just didn't take to City

Preston were keen too - I enjoyed it much more than I had ever done at City. In the end it came down to a choice of 4 clubs - United, Preston, City and Bury - in that order of preferance. "

So basically City was his third choice - even after Preston
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Which is as it should be.

Kids get to play wherever and with whomever they want without being forced to commit until after they get offered (and sign) a professional contract. All this talk of "poaching" children who are still playing amateur football is hysterical nonsense.
 
sammsky1 said:
Perhaps there are no talented young players good enough to make the grade within the Manchester vicinity that we are allowed to recruit from? Im sure if there were available local players with the necessary potential, , they would be parachuted straight into the youth squad.

I would have thought thats the problem.
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Possibly, the 90 minute commute nonsense introduced by Wilkinson and the FA a few years ago has also caused this influx of foreign youths.

It's certainly a point worth debating rather than being ridiculed. Ultimately club's will lose their identity, the national team will suffer, but hey-ho, we'll just continue to do it anyroad.
 
WireRed said:
Possibly, the 90 minute commute nonsense introduced by Wilkinson and the FA a few years ago has also caused this influx of foreign youths.

It's certainly a point worth debating rather than being ridiculed. Ultimately club's will lose their identity, the national team will suffer, but hey-ho, we'll just continue to do it anyroad.
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The club is not losing its identity. Youve basically made a non point. United have to do what's best for united NOT England. It defeats the point of united. But at the same time, fergie always made sure our core is English. So what's the issue really? Unless you believe fergie has suddenly decided to forgo a philosophy he's always held during his time with us.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
The club is not losing its identity. Youve basically made a non point. United have to do what's best for united NOT England. It defeats the point of united. But at the same time, fergie always made sure our core is English. So what's the issue really? Unless you believe fergie has suddenly decided to forgo a philosophy he's always held during his time with us.
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Not yet it's not but it will eventually considering Brown was our last local player off the production to make any sort of long-term impact 12 years ago and once the likes of Neville, Giggs, Scholes are retired, where is the local core then? Certainly not within our academy the way things are going.

It's a national problem more than a United problem, but I find the fact we continue to go down this route a little sad.

Look at Welbeck for example, he's no worse than Macheda, but who is it that's been farmed out and who is it that has stayed here and gotten opportunities? That is an example of what I fear regarding our imported youths blocking off our equally talented(in some cases) youngsters.
 
Ole's_toe_poke said:
None of these blokes we sign are contractually attached to their clubs. That is the thing. For example Macheda could not sign pro forms with Lazio because of the Italian rules. This isn't our fault.

And in any case with Deahli it looks like Staebak are happy with the deal. I don't see the point or the problem.
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That's incorrect. Lazio could give Macheda pro terms but they preferred not to do so. Its cheaper and more beneficial to have 400 youth talent with no pro contract then 100 with a pro contract. Thats how things work in the Serie A. No club give a pro contract unless he is absolutely certain that that player will end up a good player (so that if he turns crap or get injured they are not obliged to keep on paying him). It works for them unless a big foreign club starts sniffing around.
 
WireRed said:
Look at Welbeck for example, he's no worse than Macheda,
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That's what you think. Fergie obviously believes macheda has to offer immediately and welbeck needs a loan experience. Are you saying that fergie favors non British players?
 
WireRed said:
Not yet it's not but it will eventually considering Brown was our last local player off the production to make any sort of long-term impact 12 years ago and once the likes of Neville, Giggs, Scholes are retired, where is the local core then? Certainly not within our academy the way things are going.

It's a national problem more than a United problem, but I find the fact we continue to go down this route a little sad.

Look at Welbeck for example, he's no worse than Macheda, but who is it that's been farmed out and who is it that has stayed here and gotten opportunities? That is an example of what I fear regarding our imported youths blocking off our equally talented(in some cases) youngsters.
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Fergie regularly sings Welbeck's praises, and he's off getting regular premiership experience with a mid table club. Macheda's getting the odd run out with us. Are you honestly saying that Fergie is preferring to play foreign kids instead of homegrown ones?

As for your "state of our academy" comment - Morrison, James, Keane all have as good a chance as any of making it here. Thorpe and Tunnicliffe are ever improving. Welbeck's already on the fringe, Cleverley's not local but is still an academy product.
 
Ubik said:
Fergie regularly sings Welbeck's praises, and he's off getting regular premiership experience with a mid table club. Macheda's getting the odd run out with us. Are you honestly saying that Fergie is preferring to play foreign kids instead of homegrown ones?
As for your "state of our academy" comment - Morrison, James, Keane all have as good a chance as any of making it here. Thorpe and Tunnicliffe are ever improving. Welbeck's already on the fringe, Cleverley's not local but is still an academy product.
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Not at all, just that it's an example of one of our own junior's progress being delayed by a foreign junior we brought to the club.

I take you're point that there are also promising English player's in our academy, these arrivals don't help them though do they?
 
I think they neither help nor hinder, they're just other players with the potential to make it here, it's just always a long shot that a player will have the necessary ability and dedication to become a United player - no matter what their nationality. The threat to the youngsters is and always has been the established big money signings we bring in, not foreign youth players.

I do reckon at least one of those I mentioned previously will make it though, and that's without letting myself get carried away.
 
I hope WireRed won't regret his comment early on when he said why exactly did we sign another youngster (15) because everybody who talks about him just raves on about this lad and how good he is and how good he is going to be.
 
RDCR07 said:
I hope WireRed won't regret his comment early on when he said why exactly did we sign another youngster (15) because everybody who talks about him just raves on about this lad and how good he is and how good he is going to be.
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I hope he turns out to be the smashing player he's been reputed as, why wouldn't I? The point I'm making would still be no less true than it is now, that the youth ranks of English club's are over-populated with foreign juniors.

I'm a United supporter, so if this kid fulfills his potential and helps my club achieve our ambitions, great. I'll happily enjoy a slice of humble pie. That's not to say every signing of this ilk that we make(and there's have been a lot over recent times)is going to succeed, there is bound to be a few of our own talent falling down the pecking order in the process aswell.
 
WireRed said:
Not at all, just that it's an example of one of our own junior's progress being delayed by a foreign junior we brought to the club.
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On the contrary. Welbeck's season of starts for Sunderland will help his progress far more than staying and getting the (not many) minutes that Macheda got. It's a compliment to his abilities rather then farming him out for a better, foreign, talent.
 
Out of around 70 players who have played for our reserves, academy and under 16 sides this season around 10 have been brought in from non british or Irish teams so its not as if we are packing our youth with foreign players, there is plenty of opportunity for players provided they are good enough
 
Amir said:
On the contrary. Welbeck's season of starts for Sunderland will help his progress far more than staying and getting the (not many) minutes that Macheda got. It's a compliment to his abilities rather then farming him out for a better, foreign, talent.
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Possibly, and that is a logical conclusion to draw.

Thing is though, how many of our loanees over the years(no matter how gifted or how well they've done at other club's) have returned and gone on to make a mark on the first team? You can count them on one hand, that's for sure. Beckham and O'Shea are the only two that spring to my mind which isn't a great assurance.
 
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