Wasted that credit facility on Onana, Mount, Casemiro (after first season) Antony, Hojlund and Zirkzee
Mathys Tel | talks with Bayern back on?
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Wasted that credit facility on Onana, Mount, Casemiro (after first season) Antony, Hojlund and Zirkzee
It is unlikely we can afford any obligation to buy, no matter how small it might realistically be.
Stupid question but if it is a loan with obligation when does it hit the books?
If it was to be this financial year, then couldn't you fudge it and do it with obligation if some really easy condition is met? To delay it until after June?
As you can tell I am far from an Accountant
the obligation would be paid when triggered - I.e in the summer.
However, I have a feeling that from a PSR perspective, this may be accounted for from the start of the loan - as clubs were using the loan/ obligation to buy as a way of circumventing PSR rules for that period. Whether that came into force, not sure without checking.
I see.
But if it is only an obligation if conditions are met - then surely you couldn't factor it in until this had been achieved?
Like with the Sancho deal - Chelsea will obviously finish at least 14th - wonder if we could do something similar.
Although at this rate we will be far below 14th!
Tel wants a move, there’s no benefit to Bayern keeping him around. It’s brinksmanship and the deal will go through before the deadline.
Out of interest, what's his goal scoring record, compared to Hojlund before he came to United?
You are somewhat correct, the obligation would be paid whenever both clubs decided it should be paid, it could be in the summer but transfers' cash flow generally matches other cash entries, so when the PL, UEFA or sponsors are scheduled to pay, from what I generally see it's between late September and early March.
And yes, PSR/FFP considers obligations to buy as full transfers from day one, so the transfer is in the book from day one, you can't manipulate the monitoring window anymore.
Also not an accountant! However, my understanding is that, from a PSR perspective, a loan with an obligation to buy is treated exactly the same way as a permanent transfer (ie whether we buy Tel now for £50m or sign him on loan for the remainder of the season with a £50m obligation to buy in the summer, the the transfer fee will hit the books immediately in this financial year, rather than the next one).
A loan with an obligation does get us around any short-term cash flow problems (it is essentially a purchase with a deferred payment), but if we're very tight for PSR compliance in this accounting period (all reports suggest we are), it is unlikely that we have the headroom to be able agree any loan deals that include an obligation (at least not today, anyway).
My understanding is that the obligation only hits at the point it becomes active, so at a given agreed date which would almost certainly be into the new PSR year if we were to agree to it, and then it would be amortised.
Only the loan fee and wages would be immediate.
I just feel like we should have learned not to do half measures at striker by now. But hey, what's one more at this point.
His scoring stopped already in the last months of Tuchel‘s reign.
He scored and assisted the final two goals of the season for Bayern.
First half (Bundesliga only): 3g+2a
Second half of the season: 4g+3a
Admittedly his numbers per minute decreased a bit as the season went on but to claim that he stopped scoring is just wrong.
Or in other words if he had kept scoring at the same rate he did when he was regularly subbed on, he would have scored more than Kane, Lewandowski or Haaland.
He might be shit, but he was usually available to play.
Mount: shit and permanently awol
Doesn’t have to be a contest. Both appalling purchases
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I've double-checked. The Accounting Requirements subsection of UEFA's club licensing document states that in the case of a loan with an obligation to buy (or a conditional obligation to buy where the fulfillment of the condition is considered to be virtually certain), "the player’s registration must be recognised by both clubs as a permanent transfer from the inception of the loan agreement."
https://documents.uefa.com/r/UEFA-C...ry-transfer-of-a-player-s-registration-Online
Oh yeah, i forgot about Mount, what an appallingly run club we are.
If I recall correctly he scored a lot of late goals as a substitute. Not saying he wasn't very promising - because he definitely was! - but it is a lot easier to score the 4th or 5th goal when the other team has basically given up already.
I agree that he needs constant minutes and I would prefer Kompany to give him those. But in the current Bayern team he will probably only be an impact sub. Therefore, a loan without any options would be nice.
As someone who works as some kind of accountant I would say that IAS 37 differentiates between a "real" liability and a contingent liability. The former means that if you got a present obligation which is more likely to result in an outflow of cash than not you already have to show it in your balance sheet.
A contingent liability means the uncertainty is still big and the cash outflow depends on certain criteria not yet met and therefore it is not shown in the balance sheet / PL but only in the notes.
An unconditional obligation to buy has no uncertainty attached to it.
I've not read the PSR rules but in accounting you normally treat contracts by the substance not the form, so what is actually happening in practice not what it's labelled as. So if you've effectively bought the loan player because there is an obligation to buy in the summer, you'd account for it as if you bought him now, with the relevant costs spread over the appropriate period. You're right the loan would only help with cash flow.
Again I've not read the PSR rules but if there are limits set around how we can use the player during the loan period eg. appearance restrictions, then it could be argued its seperate and not account for the full cost.
Is this guy worth chasing, like is he actually any good? His record looks on par to that of Zirkzee and Hojlund. We brought those two in and some people are surprised that they also don't score here. Feels like a potential deja vu signing.
He's a talent. He's currently not better than any of our options, but might go on to be one day. Not what we need right now
well sh!t
Thing is he is different than our other options and we barely have options, the ones we have are not working
I might be the only one who thinks this but the last thing we need right now is another talent. We need an experienced CF to lead us not a kid that may come good. We have too many project youngsters in the squad.
We are utterly desperate for forwards but at the same time we shouldn't be pissing money into the wind on more gambles.
Yeah I agree - you can’t blame Bayern for trying it on as they’ve fleeced us in the past successfully and know we are desperate - if this is to happen it will be late late late
Yep, fully agreed. He'd have been a nice addition in our Zlatan/Cavani arc, but just no the profile of player that a struggling club with only youngsters in attack needs
What, I thought de Ligt and Mazraoui were regarded as being bargains?
I was referring to the Sweinsteiger deal - sold us a crock and we paid well over the top.
They also know that once we come knocking that we can be persuaded to pay more so of course they will play hard ball.
For Schweinsteiger? We paid like 10m, right?
Not even that. 6,5 million £
Whatever happens I think we'll learn something about our transfer plans for the summer.
If we're preparing to spend 60+m on Gyokores as the #9 and this is where Tel wants to play then there's no chance we'd sign any obligation to buy.
Same for our left #10 position. If Amorim wants Cunha/Eze/Gittens etc then again no chance.
If we're preparing to spend 60+m on Gyokores as the #9 and this is where Tel wants to play then there's no chance we'd sign any obligation to buy.
Same for our left #10 position. If Amorim wants Cunha/Eze/Gittens etc then again no chance.
I don’t see how signing a 19 year old who has “world class” potential which seems to be the new line from the club, impacts signing a number 9 or 10 in the summer. Especially if you consider those signings should be 25 plus ready to make an immediate impact. Tel will be excellent rotation for 10 and 9.
Geez, I had forgotten how cheap he was. And still there are people butthurt about supposedly being taken to the cleaners in that deal a decade later.
To be fair, it's own reflected by what we see on the pitch. Bargains one week, flops the next.
She better showed some consistency!
Yeah with that price they didn't exactly disguise their assessment that by that point he was only good for parts.