RVP was in the final year of his contract and he made it clear to everyone that he wanted to leave. Wenger really didn't have much of a choice but to sell him to Utd as the player didn't want to go abroad (for money reasons) or to City.
Mata | Mourinho says it's just a Mata of time
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RVP was in the final year of his contract and he made it clear to everyone that he wanted to leave. Wenger really didn't have much of a choice but to sell him to Utd as the player didn't want to go abroad (for money reasons) or to City.
Players move between rivals all the time. If he's expendable and we put in the right bid they'll accept the bid.
The issue is that the right bid from us would likely be considerably higher than the right bid from a foreign club.
Chelsea would rather sell abroad, but I wonder whether they'd consider it. Didn't they sign him for 23m? I don't think 30m is an unreasonable offer.
I doubt it. If we bid what they are willing to sell for and PSG for example bid a couple of million less then we will be the club that wins the bidding. People read way too much into this selling to a rival nonsense. Sure, it's not ideal but clearly Chelsea don't rate him, they want the maximum money back, if we don't buy Mata we'll buy someone else anyway so why wouldn't they sell to us?
It's the selling club, that decides which bid to accept. It's not an actual auction, you know.
And I seriously doubt United would win the bidding war against the likes of PSG.
Based on the fact that Chelsea and City historically pay better than we do. When you look at Torres being paid c.£200k a week for the last 3 seasons, it certainly wouldn't be a push to say Rooney would be looking at £300k. Especially since the PL and CL are far more lucrative now than they were 3 years ago.
Rooney may yet sign a new deal here, I just think it would have been sewn up by now if he was interested in what we have offered. Rooney would have known exactly what sort of financial package was on offer at Chelsea and also what was on offer here and given this information he wanted to leave in the Summer. Unless Chelsea sign someone else I see no reason as to why Chelsea wouldn't be offering the same now as they did in the Summer and unless we are prepared to offer him a more lucrative package than this, nothing will have changed since July. Rooney has shown in the past that he is only really interested in how much he is paid and the only difference between this July and last July in my mind is that he's in a stronger negotiating position due to his contract.
Still the likes of Suarez prove a hefty pay rise can settle almost any situation. I just can't see Rooney getting another hefty pay rise.
I didn't say it was an auction, but why would someone like Abramovich choose to accept less money than what was on offer? Does he think that United won't go and buy another player elsewhere using that extra few million.
Your second point is completely redundant to the point I'm making too.
Look, only in very extreme cases does selling between rivals make any difference and that's largely because of historical differences. Us and Liverpool or us and City don't do business. Arsenal and Spurs don't do business. Everyone does business with Chelsea though.
He's been playing very well - but not upfront, although he probably would be doing alright leading the line.
They made a derisory bid for him - when had they actually offered serious money they may have forced United's hand considering Rooney's attitude at the time. This was at the time the other forwards they'd been linked with (Falcao and Cavani), but weren't prepared to pay big money for had moved. Seems to me they wanted Rooney, but only at a reasonable fee and on the right terms.
I'm sure Chelsea would take him, as would many clubs - but not neccessarily on the £300k a week and the other poster suggested they'd pay.
He's a top player right now, no doubt - but he's played an awful lot of football for a player his age and seemingly doesn't live the healthiest lifestyle.
It's one thing bringing him in short term, another giving him a contract worth £50 million taking him into his thirties - which would be a risk. They've had their fingers burned in the past with Torres and Shevchenko and bought players who were on the slide with their best days behind them.
I personally think Rooney's best chance of a pay hike is at United. All depends what he and his agent think he's worth and whether United are willing to pay. But I dont see other many other clubs being willing to pay way over the odds for him either.
For the same reason Levy didn't want to sell Modric to Chelsea and sold it to Madrid for less. Spurs haven't been a title contender for eons, but they have ambitions to be one and selling their best players to other top English clubs is the opposite of what they want to do. Chelsea, if it comes to it, could easily accept slightly less from a foreign club, if it means they won't strengthen direct rival. As for United going and buying another player of Mata's quality somewhere else, take a look at how it worked out for you in the last transfer window. It's very difficult to acquire a top class talent, because they're rarely available, have plenty of suitors and will cost a fortune.
Well, it made a whole lot of difference in RVP's case, didn't it? His goal scoring was one of the biggest reasons you won the title last year. If he was still with Arsenal, can you imagine how much better they'd look with him in place of Giroud this season? Players like that make a difference between winning and losing games, and ultimately, winning or missing out on trophies. That's why United won't sell Rooney to us and we won't sell you Mata.
If we didn't buy RvP last year we'd arguably be in a better position now because we'd likely have spend that money and more on what we really needed. Also, lets not get carried away, RvP's goals were vital but we wouldn't have just not had those goals if he wasn't playing. We would have played other players in his place.
For your example of Modric you countered it with RvP yourself. There's been decades of players moving between top English sides and feck all examples of them going elsewhere. Also, not all clubs are run by people like Levy who is a total fecking moron.
Levy didnt say Modric was for sale there is a difference and plus its levy. We already said Rooney was not for sale so i don't get your point. Like the person said above people are reading too much into this rivals rubbish and we are the only league that takes it this serious.
The clubs don't even take it seriously though. I'd love someone to give me a couple of examples of when clubs refused to sell top players to rivals only to sell them abroad. I struggle to think of any significant amount despite this widespread belief that it's a real thing.
Maybe this needs it's own thread?
If he wasn't for sale, why was he sold to Madrid for less money? And I used Modric as an example, referring to Mata, who hasn't asked to leave and isn't being offered for sale by his club. Both Modric and Rooney wanted to leave, even if their clubs were against the move.
Rubbish or not, clearly top clubs in England rarely sell their players to each other, let alone top talent, like Mata.
Indeed.
Money talks and players usually get what the want. Clubs generally dont like unhappy player sitting around being unhappy, whilst getting paid. The longer they sit and the worse things get the less the player is worth.
RVP is a great example of when it happens. Arsenal were furious but they only had two options - lose him for free or sell him to United.
The only example I can think of is Heinze and Liverpool. Fergie put his foot down and the player went to Madrid. Although he may have chosen Madrid anyway, had they been in for him at the same time.
That's because they rarely sell their top players let alone to rivals.Give me five examples of clubs refusing to sell to other English sides and then selling the players abroad and I'll give you ten examples of them selling to other English sides.
Give me five examples of clubs refusing to sell to other English sides and then selling the players abroad and I'll give you ten examples of them selling to other English sides.
I think, when it comes to English top clubs, the transfer business normally doesn't go further than inquiries in most cases, since they know, it's a very long shot for any deal to actually materialize. Those rare occasions when bids are actually made (Rooney, RVP, etc), it starts with a player trying to force the move and his camp letting the potential buyers know, he'd be willing to join them. But even in these cases, with rare exceptions, it's very difficult to get the deal done.
As for possibility to sell the very same player to a foreign club, it depends on a player and his particular situation. Rooney wasn't in great demand, apparently, despite asking for a transfer, so United had only an offer from CFC, and no foreign club came calling. I'm fairly confident, if Mata becomes available, there'll be a number of non-English sides interested and Chelsea will have options. So it depends.
No examples then apart from a maybe Mata if is happens.
Heinze? Modric?
Heinze was covered in the post I said about selling to Liverpool. That's not about league competition, it's about much much more than that. We don't do business with Pool or City, Arse don't do business with Spurs.
Top player but not the answer to our problems.
Also the likely expense will impact our ability to buy an actual midfielder.
Also the likely expense will impact our ability to buy an actual midfielder.
I'm not talking about historical rivalries, but rather rivals when it comes to a title race or a top four finish. We loaned players to Liverpool(Moses) and Everton(Lukaku), because we didn't consider them a threat to our title ambitions. Had we known Liverpool would prove to be a genuine threat, we wouldn't be selling or loaning them anyone. Same goes for other clubs. Tottenham, for example, isn't a traditional rival to United, but that doesn't mean they'd welcome your approach for their best players. And so on.
And yes, if it's impossible to hold on to a wantaway player, all those clubs would prefer to sell them abroad rather than strengthen a domestic rival. But each player's situation is different. Since we're talking about Mata here, he's 25, a proven top quality player, great attitude,on sensible wages and is, by all accounts, have several big clubs as suitors across Europe. He's also under contract till 2018. The club is in a very strong position, when, and if, Chelsea decide to sell him.
You keep saying it, but other than Modric you haven't given one example. What you say sounds logical and all but in practice it doesn't happen.
Don't want him. Adnan is the answer. I'd take De Bruyne though, he can play a bit deeper I think.
"Hello, Juan? It's David. Aye, Moyes. The ginger one, aye. Listen, do you fancy playing out of position on the wing in the Europa League next season?"
*click*
"Hello? Hello? Juan?"
*click*
"Hello? Hello? Juan?"
"No, I'd much rather sit on the bench for this mental cnut who obviously doesn't want me or play for the fat waiter at Napoli"
"Mister David Moyes, the Parisians are offering me millions of euros to play in the sun. Not to mention the Champions League, mister David Moyes."
In all honestly it Juan Mata where he wants to go if Chelsea agree a price with us.
boom boom
boom boom
Alone, not the answer to our problems, but he would be an answer to one of our problems - creating chances, and the severe lack of that happening. Chips in with goals too, and has great dead ball delivery, so our strikers can actually be in the box.
He doesn't solve the midfield problem, but he would give us more purpose in attack, and a very worthy outlet as an alternative to passing the ball to Valencia, for him to blast as hard as he can to the other side of the pitch.
We rely too much on Rooney to create chances and to score the goals as well. He needs some support from a player like Mata. I'd always hoped Kagawa would be that player for us, as I am a big fan of him, but he's struggling to adapt, and not been given enough chances to pick up any kind of form.
The word play of 'Juan Mata' and 'Wont matter' has already been addressed earlier in the topic. We need fresh ones!
You'll get some average midfielder minder over Mata.
Jokes on you, we'll get neither!
On me?
If only we could get them to buy Diaby.
Well you did give us van Persie, so it's all good.
United only need to sign Juan or two players to compete in the league again.
Mata for 30m pounds and I'm happy. I wonder if he is able to play a full central midfield role like Cleverley or Scholes. It looks a bit like he wants to take off too early in the build up.
Not sure if serious...
Yeah, feck signing a centre midfielder! Lets sign someone else we've no need for and play him there instead! 
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