Mason Mount's Many Misfortunes

Syphon Wallet said:
Thought he was average with no clear role at Chelsea.
Nothing has changed so far.
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Yeah that was basically my impression too. However we need to give him a chance at the club. Looking at it from the perspective of replacing Fred, might be better than comparing him to other no7's etc.
 
I obviously wasn‘t too pleased with the news that we were going to sign him and I was praying we would walk away when Chelsea started messing us about. I don’t think he is good enough to play at this level and I don’t care how many Chelsea player of the year awards he’s won, he’ll end up the midfield equivalent of Harry Maguire.

Having said that, I really hope I’m wrong and he ends up being a modern day Bryan Robson.

I will back him as I do any United player but he really doesn’t fill me with any optimism.
 
MichaelRed said:
People need to relax a little. Half of you would have sold Evra & Vidic before sacking SAF after their debuts.
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Half of us have not seen Vidic ever play before, and half of us have seen Evra play before just a couple of times.

All of us have seen Mount play for almost half a decade.
 
MichaelRed said:
People need to relax a little. Half of you would have sold Evra & Vidic before sacking SAF after their debuts.
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Most of the criticism isn't based on Mount's debut performance, but rather on his role and how he fits into the team. So your comparison doesn't make any sense.
 
Revan said:
Half of us have not seen Vidic ever play before, and half of us have seen Evra play before just a couple of times.

All of us have seen Mount play for almost half a decade.
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Then you should know his accomplishments (Goals, assists, trophies) very well. Unless you want to criticize the fact that he won't fit in the team. In which case, why not wait?
 
Speaking as an independent, who browses a few different forums, from what I can make of it a large percentage of the posters in here are unduly negative.
Anyhow, my take is that most signings take time to settle into new systems of play with new team mates (while also moving home with all the emotional turmoil of uprooting the family etc.).
You only need to look across town to see some extremely expensive players who took a season to start showing their true worth, and I think you should all give Mount the benefit of the doubt, have a bit more trust in the new manager you have (who certainly made big strides in the right direction last season etc.) and give them all some grace to develop as squad and as a team on the field of play.
 
I assume the idea of this new formation is that we have some kind of threat up front and some ball carrying defenders who step into midfield. Asking Casemiro, Bruno and Mount to hold the midfield without that is like asking a sieve to hold your coffee. You will end up with brown trousers.
 
Teja said:
Then you should know his accomplishments (Goals, assists, trophies) very well. Unless you want to criticize the fact that he won't fit in the team. In which case, why not wait?
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Yes, while playing as No.10, a position he is not as good as Bruno.

He has no qualities as No.8. Waiting for another 2 years to determined that won’t change anything.
 
To calm myself down over this shambles of a signing, I (pathetically) went and looked at Paul Pogba's match debut thread from 16/17. We played Southampton at home and he was amazing.

The cafe was buzzing about him, money well spent was the accepted view.

Im saying that to say, lets not let a bad start discourage us, its a long season. I hope for the best.
 
Yep hold on everyone.
At least let him make TWO competitive appearances before we declare him the Chelsea Lingard.
 
RedStarUnited said:
To calm myself down over this shambles of a signing, I (pathetically) went and looked at Paul Pogba's match debut thread from 16/17. We played Southampton at home and he was amazing.

The cafe was buzzing about him, money well spent was the accepted view.

Im saying that to say, lets not let a bad start discourage us, its a long season. I hope for the best.
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Pogba was level above in terms of talent , didn't work out due to him having a suspect work ethic and we couple never find a clear role he was good at.
Mount also has no clear role in my view, works alot harder than pogba, but has nowhere near the same level of talent.
 
He’s a system player and the system itself is evidently a work in progress.
Even in well established systems (see City), players can take a while to bed in. Grealish, Mahrez, Rodri, Cancelo, Foden etc all took a season or so of acclimating to start to perform well.
Give him time
 
Ole'sattheWheel said:
He’s a system player and the system itself is evidently a work in progress.
Even in well established systems (see City), players can take a while to bed in. Grealish, Mahrez, Rodri, Cancelo, Foden etc all took a season or so of acclimating to start to perform well.
Give him time
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Exactly, and even the contrary happens. I recall Man City's system being a little disrupted by Haaland's arrival in the first half of last season. He may have been grabbing hattricks every couple of games but it still seemed for a moment that unleashing the best in him was harming the rest of the team's balance and harmony.

But the reality is, a lot of people had preconceptions about Mount's place in the team, and after one unspectacular game it's easy to reinforce those views. He wasn't some 'okay we'll settle for him' signing that we took in the last week of the window, he was our first and the manager was enthusiastic about him, surely that's worth something? I really hope he's given a chance by supporters, but it doesn't fill me with hope to see so many people writing him off as if he's at the same lows as players that have really been consistently underperforming over years.
 
it's not about settling in or adapting to the system is the fact that he's not as technically gifted on the ball compared to say Enzo Fernandes, were you can say he's got it, so for that reason let's give him time to learn how to play with his mates.

Mount is just a Running around Merchant, good at pressing and on the odd occasion has a good shot on him, imo a limited footballer, anything more is pure hyperbole.
 
I would never have had Mount on my wishlist for the window, but he undoubtedly improves the team. He splits the difference between Eriksen, who is good on the ball but can't really run, and Fred, who can run for days but is incredibly inconsistent in possession, as well as offering desperately needed backup/competition for Bruno.

Only a couple of players come out of the Wolves game with any credit, so I'm not going to judge Mount on it. But if they're going to play together, him and Bruno need to get better at checking out what the other is doing and acting accordingly as we got caught out a lot when both had pushed to the edge of the 18 yard box or made a run in behind and Wolves broke into an empty midfield. To be honest though, Garnacho and Rashford having shocking games and giving the ball away constantly had a lot to do with that, as did Casemiro's lack of mobility.
 
I don’t want to join the pile-on but I was so underwhelmed when we signed him for quite a lot of money. I hope the manager can work some magic here as he’s always struck me as incredibly average.
 
Have to say I’m absolutely shocked that the cafe is turning on him already. Shocked I tell you….
 
Thing is, we signed him for £55m and that is actually nothing for a player these days. We paid £50m for Fred and he’s a much better player technically than that. I see it as improving the squad whilst also adding another home grown player, which is important, especially if we are looking to shift on Maguire and McTominay.
Is he exactly what we all wanted? No. He might not even be Ten Hag’s first choice to play next to Casemiro (almost certainly IMO) but maybe that player wasn’t available or more likely the funds weren’t there. I honestly think Onana and Hojlund were his top targets and anything else on top was a bonus. Don’t be fooled by the order we did things - more clubs were sniffing around Mount at the time.
 
NLunited said:
How is turning over the ball 81 times Ten Hag‘s fault? Nah this one was on the players
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Well, he's had over 12 months and £400 million to get his team passing the ball like a competent football team. If Pep had taken over United last summer, there's no way we'd still be this bad at retaining possession of a football.
 
Dominos said:
Well, he's had over 12 months and £400 million to get his team passing the ball like a competent football team. If Pep had taken over United last summer, there's no way we'd still be this bad at retaining possession of a football.
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No, Pep would replace 90% of the players. We can‘t play Pep ball with this group, Klopp ball maybe.
 
NLunited said:
No, Pep would replace 90% of the players. We can‘t play Pep ball with this group, Klopp ball maybe.
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In 12 months and £400 million he wouldn't have replaced 90% of the squad even if that was his medium term plan, but he'd have us retaining possession of the ball better than this at the current moment.
 
Dominos said:
In 12 months and £400 million he wouldn't have replaced 90% of the squad even if that was his medium term plan, but he'd have us retaining possession of the ball better than this at the current moment.
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Pep would have done this or that, while true, is IMO not important because Pep is arguably the best manager of all time, while EtH is at best, a top 10 current manager.

What is concerning is that no name managers of teams with far less resources seem much more able to have their teams play actually decent football, despite not having years of coaching and hundreds of millions in investments. Wolves for example, are a team with players who are much worse than ours, with a manager who was there for a total of 4 days, and somehow completely outplayed us in Old Trafford.
 
Revan said:
Pep would have done this or that, while true, is IMO not important because Pep is arguably the best manager of all time, while EtH is at best, a top 10 current manager.

What is concerning is that no name managers of teams with far less resources seem much more able to have their teams play actually decent football, despite not having years of coaching and hundreds of millions in investments. Wolves for example, are a team with players who are much worse than ours, with a manager who was there for a total of 4 days, and somehow completely outplayed us in Old Trafford.
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Totally agree. I was genuinely hoping that the days of only being able to counter attack the so called big sides whilst struggling to breakdown the so called lesser teams were coming to an end.

I was (and still am with 2 weeks of the transfer window remaining) hoping the signings we made and the exodus of mediocrity this summer would secure the transition to see us playing to a pattern and dictating the tempo of the game with the high press etc etc. Hate to say it, but more like our rivals have been playing this past few years .

The Wolves game has been a shock to the system.

Mount will be given no slack by the media as a full International/ champions league winner/ wearing the number 7 shirt (very Ill advised by the club) and as the ‘established name’ of all of our transfers thus far will be expected to deliver an instant impact. Tactically he looked lost in the role he was given. Just hope the lad up front we have bought is half decent when he gets the chance to play. Of course we signed an injured player….only United….
 
Revan said:
Pep would have done this or that, while true, is IMO not important because Pep is arguably the best manager of all time, while EtH is at best, a top 10 current manager.

What is concerning is that no name managers of teams with far less resources seem much more able to have their teams play actually decent football, despite not having years of coaching and hundreds of millions in investments. Wolves for example, are a team with players who are much worse than ours, with a manager who was there for a total of 4 days, and somehow completely outplayed us in Old Trafford.
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Let’s remember Ten Hag managed us to 3rd last season, it is too early to wet the bed.
 
10 goals, 10 assists in the league and I think we can consider it a successful season for him.
 
izak said:
it's not about settling in or adapting to the system is the fact that he's not as technically gifted on the ball compared to say Enzo Fernandes, were you can say he's got it, so for that reason let's give him time to learn how to play with his mates.

Mount is just a Running around Merchant, good at pressing and on the odd occasion has a good shot on him, imo a limited footballer, anything more is pure hyperbole.
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If anything this is hyperbole. Nobody wins major club accolades for this.
 
Ted Lasso said:
10 goals, 10 assists in the league and I think we can consider it a successful season for him.
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If all of those came against the bottom 5, and he does absolutely nothing in the big fixtures, would you say the same?
 
UsualSuspect said:
If all of those came against the bottom 5, and he does absolutely nothing in the big fixtures, would you say the same?
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Yes because United's biggest overall problems have been winning the games that we should expect to win, not the games that you can't expect to win
 
Red in STL said:
Yes because United's biggest overall problems have been winning the games that we should expect to win, not the games that you can't expect to win
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Tbf, that’s not the case with this team. We were pretty good against the poor sides last year and even the top sides at home, hence winning games we were supposed to win. The problem was collecting 4 points from 9 away games against the rest of the top 10, with the only win coming against newly promoted Fulham. Nothing to say that Mount is just a flat track bully and can’t help us improve that record though.
 
captaincantona said:
Mount has never played in the role he is playing now, nor has Bruno - this weird dual 10 where neither seems to be grabbing the game by the throat. Now we have McT, DVB, Sancho, Mount, with no idea how to get the best out of them. We know how to get the best out of Bruno and yet seem intent on using him elsewhere to fit other players in the team.
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He has, both at youth and some at senior level. The problem is that he lacks the instincts of a good 8/10 so was mostly used out on the flanks for us. With his work rate and good technical ability I find it unfathomable that a coach couldn't mould him into a decent 8. Young KDB was the same in fact, and also mostly used on the flanks for the same reason. Hopefully ETH can figure it out.
 
Red in STL said:
Yes because United's biggest overall problems have been winning the games that we should expect to win, not the games that you can't expect to win
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Fair enough. I guess it depends on your overall season as well. If it helps you with a top 4 finish it's all good. But if you're struggling around midtable then the perspective probably changes.
 
UsualSuspect said:
Fair enough. I guess it depends on your overall season as well. If it helps you with a top 4 finish it's all good. But if you're struggling around midtable then the perspective probably changes.
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If we're struggling around mid table then the issues are bigger than any one player TBH
 
Nicoseth said:
Mason Mount has played 1 game for us - ONE GAME - and people are writing him off already. I don't understand the negativity. He's a quality player and I'm convinced he'll do well for us.
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Was it really one game?
 
I have a slightly different take from most people on his performance against Wolves.
Many expected a dominant midfielder performance from someone basically learning a new role/system on his first game, a bit unfair. Maybe fitness issues but ETH should have started with Eriksen and gradual introduce him into the system. So, the patience should maybe come from our manager in how he uses him early doors.
1st half he covered a lot of defensive ground, main reason Casemiro wasn’t exposed and we looked better shaped. As the game wore on his lack of experience in his position was exposed and exploited, he could not react and I doubt he even noticed it.
I think he is technically good and very intelligent, as he beds into this team our general play will benefit. Just believe we are asking too much of him too soon, we will be better served watching him transition rather than expect the complete package.
 
RDCR07 said:
Yeah we arent getting that from him. Thats a pipe dream.
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Definitely a high target! He's had one season like that before so in the right system its a good target to set. If we have any chance of winning the title he and the rest of the team will need to be hitting lofty targets like that.

22/23: 3g 2a
21/22: 11g 10a
20/21: 6g 5a
19/20: 7g 5a

For contrast, Bruno:
8g 8a
10g 6a
18g12a (nuts)
 
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