Mason Mount's Many Misfortunes

I’ve not actually seen him play yet. Bring on the first match of the season
 
Mount isn't Bruno 2.0 and that's not his job. Bruno is our main creative outlet. Mount job is to act like a cog in the machine. His off the ball movement is extremely important to help tie us together, by always being a option for the other players. If you want to measure Mount's actual impact you have to look at his team mates. Antony looks much better in the team with Mount to play of.
 
simonhch said:
That’s a different concern to the oneI answered but equally bizarre for people to be taking a grand total of around 75 pre season minutes, when we’ve actually played the formation you’ve described, as any sort of an indicator of its success. It’s knee jerkism to support a wider anti Mount agenda.

I’ll clue you in, as it seems you don’t understand this yet, but it takes a sustained period of time for an approach to be (a) competently mastered by the players and (b) to truly assess its viability. A handful of pre season minutes is worthless as a barometer of anything. Success or failure.
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On the other hand, we also have a bunch of digital football managers who " find more bizarre is this constant failure to understand where and how he fits in and why the manager wanted him as a priority". So now we have posters popping up with how obvious it is what ETH is trying to do after like you said 75mins of pre-season.
First we bought Mount as Eriksen replacement.
Then it turned out they are actually nothing alike and we're obviously switching to 4-3-3 with Mount/Bruno dropping to midfield when needed.
Now we've reached the point when we're "obviously" pushing Bruno deeper and play Mount in advanced role because he's apparently very suited to running channels and he will be key in pressing up high. We might as well conclude soon he's actually best on the wing, that's how much we know about Mount signing and how he fits in the team.

It's all true btw. But we know feck all about what will happen and how the team will play, so it's a bit ridiculous how people try to be smart now. The only thing we can conclude is we are nowhere near getting the balance/system right so we keep experimenting. This simply isn't a positive sign a week from playing first league game.
We started last season with Eriksen as DLP and this was ditched very quickly after we saw how this works (or doesn't work) when we play serious football.
 
Borys said:
On the other hand, we also have a bunch of digital football managers who " find more bizarre is this constant failure to understand where and how he fits in and why the manager wanted him as a priority". So now we have posters popping up with how obvious it is what ETH is trying to do after like you said 75mins of pre-season.
First we bought Mount as Eriksen replacement.
Then it turned out they are actually nothing alike and we're obviously switching to 4-3-3 with Mount/Bruno dropping to midfield when needed.
Now we've reached the point when we're "obviously" pushing Bruno deeper and play Mount in advanced role because he's apparently very suited to running channels and he will be key in pressing up high. We might as well conclude soon he's actually best on the wing, that's how much we know about Mount signing and how he fits in the team.

It's all true btw. But we know feck all about what will happen and how the team will play, so it's a bit ridiculous how people try to be smart now. The only thing we can conclude is we are nowhere near getting the balance/system right so we keep experimenting. This simply isn't a positive sign a week from playing first league game.
We started last season with Eriksen as DLP and this was ditched very quickly after we saw how this works (or doesn't work) when we play serious football.
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You do realize some fans know a lot about Mount, probably more than Ten Hag, and have been basing their judgements based on years of youtube highlights? .000001 years still counts as years, but that's beyond the point.
 
gaffs said:
A good read. thanks
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Yeah I found the emphasis on winning the ball in opposition half and converting greater percentages into a shot. Would make for a very entertaining game if we do that more often. No wonder we are linked to defenders good at one on one defending.
 
simonhch said:
What I find more bizarre is this constant failure to understand where and how he fits in and why the manager wanted him as a priority. And to top it all off pushing the agenda of a completely different type of player which would necessitate a change in playing style from the manager’s preferred system. That seems the most bizarre take of all.

Yo get a marquee player like Mount, from a rival, early in the window, when he’s the manager’s number one target, is to be celebrated not derided.

All the mud slingers on here will be quick to wheel out their “I told you so’s” as soon as Mount has a bad game (which all players do) but stay conspicuously quiet when he plays well. It’s the most predictable thing in the world at this point. Talk enough negative shit and you’ll be right eventually. However briefly.

The match day forum will be full of toxic Nostradamus clones again this year, and be one to avoid for the foreseeable future. That part of the site is pretty much ground zero for stupidity these days.
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The way I see thing is that I trust ETH if he chose him to be his first signing this summer. As far as I'm concerned preseason means feck all just as what he did at Chelsea (which I've found to be underwhelming). The canvas is blank and I hope Mount justifies his price tag by consistent good performances.
 
Lyng said:
Mount job is to act like a cog in the machine. His off the ball movement is extremely important to help tie us together, by always being a option for the other players.
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Another comment that sounds like the excuses repeatedly made for DVB - "cog in the machine" my foot.

Him supposedly "always being a option for the other players" was not evident at all in pre-season, in fact it more looked as if he was hiding and he rarely received a pass from his team-mates.

He's really going to have to improve his influence on games and his sharpness relative to his team-mates in the season proper.
 
11101 said:
No, people's main problem is they have already seen him play week in week out and know there is nothing special there. A good player who will work hard but little else.

A foreign player may or not be better. With Mount we know what we are getting and it's not exactly thrilling.
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It's OK. Carrick fits the description - not thrilling, good but nothing more, known quantity after many years in the PL - and he's the last successful midfielder we signed. Just let the lad play here for a season and see well he does, shall we?

And whilst i don't agree with the general tone of the post you quoted and what it might be implying, i feel that there is actually an argument to be had here. In the post-SAF era, and before deciding on Mount, United have spent close to 350 million pounds on central midfielders (Fellaini, Blind, Herrera, Morgan, Bastian, Pogba, Miki, Matic, Fred and VdB). Did anyone of them receive the same stick as Mount before they even kicked a ball for the club?

I think the issue with Mount is twofold. Firstly, United fans love a maverick. It's the same people who will constantly get on Antony's back because he doesn't offer end product and praise Garnacho for taking on his marker 20 times per 90 to score a goal in every two or three games. They will wave away the fact that Antony is one of the most press resistant players and one of the better ball carriers in the team because they believe we should have another pure attacking talent there. You need both types, the ones who are able to force the issue and the ones with a better "feel" of the game. And Bruno is already a huge magnet for United when we have the ball. We know how he prefers to play, we've made him our focal point, but we can't play like that for 90 minutes.

The other thing is that Mount doesn't quite fit some people's preconceived notion of a midfielder's role on the pitch. Mount is good at winning and protecting the ball high up the pitch and whether some fans want to understand it or not, these are the areas where matches are decided nowadays. Not in front of your own box. It's a different objective regarding the midfield battle. Plus, if your main concern about the midfield is how it will cover the holes the attackers leave behind, you'll never get a better midfield than that.
 
Lyng said:
Mount isn't Bruno 2.0 and that's not his job. Bruno is our main creative outlet. Mount job is to act like a cog in the machine. His off the ball movement is extremely important to help tie us together, by always being a option for the other players. If you want to measure Mount's actual impact you have to look at his team mates. Antony looks much better in the team with Mount to play of.
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Agreed. Mount's off the ball work is underrated. There is a reason why multiple managers have loved him. It also explains why a lot of fans do not get what he does as they are too focused on highlights/stats.

That said, he isn't the type of player that should've been handed the No.7.
 
Red 142 said:
Another comment that sounds like the excuses repeatedly made for DVB - "cog in the machine" my foot.

Him supposedly "always being a option for the other players" was not evident at all in pre-season, in fact it more looked as if he was hiding and he rarely received a pass from his team-mates.

He's really going to have to improve his influence on games and his sharpness relative to his team-mates in the season proper.
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Donnie's off the ball movement is no way near as useful as Mount's.
 
Not a bad player but wildly overpriced for what he's shown in the past and the fit to our team.

It's funny last season ETH chased FDJ around when he's not a good DM, we luckily get a great DM and now the profile of FDJ next to Cas and Bruno would make a strong midfield. Like Cas, Modric, Kroos. Instead we get Mount who is more akin to Lucas Vasquez. Obviously pricing differences and FDJ but being available but a finished midfield we do not have. Even someone like Tielemans would've been a better fit as a passing CM
 
Most Chelsea fans I know (I mean real supporters rather than plastic ones thinking of changing to City or Newcastle) are a bit gutted in losing Mount. A lot more then we would be if we sold our own homegrown McT for instance.
They appreciate his quality and what he brought to the team and hopefully we will see that come through... we just need to give him a bot of time.
 
It's going to be one of those signings that creates factions of voiciferous fans. He seemed to split Chelsea fans down the middle so no reason to think it is going to be any different under the microscope at United.

There will be one faction that will use words and phrases such as "cog", "system player", or intimate that his performance is reliant on the team and players around him rather than him being chiefly responsible - see Donny van de Beek as another player that floated around midfield positions. Another tact will be to hint that only those of true tactical acumen for the sport of football will be able to appreciate Mount and what he brings to the team.

Then I think there will be another side that wants to see more of him in the games, wants him to take more responsibility in getting on the ball, and ultimately expect to see more in terms of goal threat. Will also wonder what his best position is actually supposed to be.

Entirely predictable before he even pulls on a shirt in a competitive game because this is generally how his career has looked and generally players don't significantly change overnight, it takes a period at a club under a manager to see large changes. It could even be seen on the international stage. His international manager and teammates seemed to appreciate him, but unless you looked extremely hard for it, it was extremely hard to identify what the main benefits of him were.

Buckle up for this one, I think it's going to rage on all season - but mainly I just hope that the overall bloody team functions with him in it irrespective of whether he looks amazing as an individual.
 
Lyng said:
Mount isn't Bruno 2.0 and that's not his job. Bruno is our main creative outlet. Mount job is to act like a cog in the machine. His off the ball movement is extremely important to help tie us together, by always being a option for the other players. If you want to measure Mount's actual impact you have to look at his team mates. Antony looks much better in the team with Mount to play of.
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Means Bruno should be playing further up the pitch where he does the most damage! Whoop whoop into my fpl team he goes!!
 
11101 said:
No, people's main problem is they have already seen him play week in week out and know there is nothing special there. A good player who will work hard but little else.
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What do you term "special"? He's a lot better than the average PL standard for many different areas (passing, work rate, pressing success rate, set pieces, dribbling through the middle).

Sure he's not Frenkie, but you don't need a team full of Galacticos.
 
TheRedDevil'sAdvocate said:
It's OK. Carrick fits the description - not thrilling, good but nothing more, known quantity after many years in the PL - and he's the last successful midfielder we signed. Just let the lad play here for a season and see well he does, shall we?

And whilst i don't agree with the general tone of the post you quoted and what it might be implying, i feel that there is actually an argument to be had here. In the post-SAF era, and before deciding on Mount, United have spent close to 350 million pounds on central midfielders (Fellaini, Blind, Herrera, Morgan, Bastian, Pogba, Miki, Matic, Fred and VdB). Did anyone of them receive the same stick as Mount before they even kicked a ball for the club?

I think the issue with Mount is twofold. Firstly, United fans love a maverick. It's the same people who will constantly get on Antony's back because he doesn't offer end product and praise Garnacho for taking on his marker 20 times per 90 to score a goal in every two or three games. They will wave away the fact that Antony is one of the most press resistant players and one of the better ball carriers in the team because they believe we should have another pure attacking talent there. You need both types, the ones who are able to force the issue and the ones with a better "feel" of the game. And Bruno is already a huge magnet for United when we have the ball. We know how he prefers to play, we've made him our focal point, but we can't play like that for 90 minutes.

The other thing is that Mount doesn't quite fit some people's preconceived notion of a midfielder's role on the pitch. Mount is good at winning and protecting the ball high up the pitch and whether some fans want to understand it or not, these are the areas where matches are decided nowadays. Not in front of your own box. It's a different objective regarding the midfield battle. Plus, if your main concern about the midfield is how it will cover the holes the attackers leave behind, you'll never get a better midfield than that.
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Good points.
 
Last season Chelsea were a shambles. The season before, he scored 11 and assisted 10. He was Chelsea’s POTY tow years in a row. He has won the Champions League. He has 3 goals and 8 assists in the CL. And he’s only 24. People I think are sticking on last season and not seeing it as an unfortunate one off.
 
marktan said:
Not a bad player but wildly overpriced for what he's shown in the past and the fit to our team.

It's funny last season ETH chased FDJ around when he's not a good DM, we luckily get a great DM and now the profile of FDJ next to Cas and Bruno would make a strong midfield. Like Cas, Modric, Kroos. Instead we get Mount who is more akin to Lucas Vasquez. Obviously pricing differences and FDJ but being available but a finished midfield we do not have. Even someone like Tielemans would've been a better fit as a passing CM
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It might be the case that your perception of what our midfield needs differs from ten Hag's.
 
Teja said:
What do you term "special"? He's a lot better than the average PL standard for many different areas (passing, work rate, pressing success rate, set pieces, dribbling through the middle).

Sure he's not Frenkie, but you don't need a team full of Galacticos.
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He is going to be the third man in a midfield of Bruno and Casemiro, and he is comfortably the worst of the three. I think that's what many of us wanted, certainly what i wanted for 60m, a player who was at least equal to the other two.
 
11101 said:
He is going to be the third man in a midfield of Bruno and Casemiro, and he is comfortably the worst of the three. I think that's what many of us wanted, certainly what i wanted for 60m, a player who was at least equal to the other two.
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For 60m, who would that have been (and was equal to Casemiro and Bruno)?
 
Once the season starts and things get serious and he gets a run of games, he'll pick up the rhythm and get the on field connection with the other players and he'll do fine.
 
Lyng said:
Mount isn't Bruno 2.0 and that's not his job. Bruno is our main creative outlet. Mount job is to act like a cog in the machine. His off the ball movement is extremely important to help tie us together, by always being a option for the other players. If you want to measure Mount's actual impact you have to look at his team mates. Antony looks much better in the team with Mount to play of.
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Ah, that’s interesting. I’ll look for that.
 
11101 said:
He is going to be the third man in a midfield of Bruno and Casemiro, and he is comfortably the worst of the three. I think that's what many of us wanted, certainly what i wanted for 60m, a player who was at least equal to the other two.
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if he is the worst in our midfield 3, is it like saying Busqets was the worst of the Barca tikka taka midfield though? Like it’s no shame not being at the standard of 2 world class CMs. I don’t think he is worse than them both either, just has a different and complimentary skill set, but that’s a different point!
 
Let’s give Mount at least 10 league games to show what he can bring to the team.

Posts claiming he’s a waste of money before preseason has ended can’t be taken serious.
 
People need to stop getting hung up on the number 7 shirt. He will be great for us. ETH seems to trust him wanted him and got him. Might be the sort of player that’s doesn’t get the sort of recognition and divide fan base but he’ll be good for people who enjoy football not just complain about it.
 
No matter what kind of an argument someone has, especially the “it’s just a number” one. Giving that number to anyone, apart from maybe Garnacho, and that’s a big maybe, was a dumb move. That number just gives unnecessary pressure, especially if you come as an expensive acquisition. A certain personality is required to handle everything that comes with it. The moment you start performing average you’re dead in the water. Having it on your back literally means asking to be compared to our greatest players ever. Anyway… the 7 at United isn’t just a number, it’s cursed, you’re either a superstar or a flop. I hope Mount finds his footing and makes his own legacy with the number, I just don’t see it happening at the moment.
 
To be honest I think the club and fans need to stop with the seven crap. Seems the club are at least.

Every seven we have had for years has been a disaster one way or another, might as well give to someone like mount who will likely do a decent job and be a favourite of the manager rather than give it to garnacho and put unnecessary pressure on him to be Ronaldo.

No comparisons can be made with Ronaldo because mount is a totally different type of player, it's perfect.
 
11101 said:
He is going to be the third man in a midfield of Bruno and Casemiro, and he is comfortably the worst of the three. I think that's what many of us wanted, certainly what i wanted for 60m, a player who was at least equal to the other two.
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Worst of the three??

What has Bruno done in his career to get the praises some of you people give him?

Bruno has never played in a champions league semi final in his fecking career, not a single game..

He's 29 years old in the next 30 DAYS by the way.

Never won any meaningful trophy in his career.
Never been involved in a major club title winning team or campaign.

Don't come here with carabao cup.

You people are very blindsided, there is a reason ETH pushes Bruno to the wing. I've said it severally the reason IS, Bruno is not a midfielder for a very top side.
Its not a coincidence he has never won anything meaningful in his career or played in big decisive games frequently.


Just compare Bruno with Bernardo Silva. Both same age, same physical attributes, but one has won multiples leagues titles, involved in highest level games, scored in champions league semi finals, assist in final.


Eventually we will move on from Bruno in the next 18 months.
Being a transition team will never achieve great sustainable success. You beat Barca then get humiliated by Sevilla. Beat Liverpool at OT get humiliated at Anfield. Beat City at OT get hammered at Etihad. Not sustainable at all.


To show you how Cafe is blindsided by Bruno, people here will still choose Bruno over Bernardo Silva.
Give me Bernardo any second of the game.

Eventually, Mount will take position 10 in the team, give it 18 months you will see. Even Wout was tried as a 10.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Worst of the three??

What has Bruno done in his career to get the praises some of you people give him?

Bruno has never played in a champions league semi final in his fecking career, not a single game..

He's 29 years old in the next 30 DAYS by the way.

Never won any meaningful trophy in his career.
Never been involved in a major club title winning team or campaign.

Don't come here with carabao cup.

You people are very blindsided, there is a reason ETH pushes Bruno to the wing. I've said it severally the reason IS, Bruno is not a midfielder for a very top side.
Its not a coincidence he has never won anything meaningful in his career or played in big decisive games frequently.


Just compare Bruno with Bernardo Silva. Both same age, same physical attributes, but one has won multiples leagues titles, involved in highest level games, scored in champions league semi finals, assist in final.


Eventually we will move on from Bruno in the next 18 months.
Being a transition team will never achieve great sustainable success. You beat Barca then get humiliated by Sevilla. Beat Liverpool at OT get humiliated at Anfield. Beat City at OT get hammered at Etihad. Not sustainable at all.


To show you how Cafe is blindsided by Bruno, people here will still choose Bruno over Bernardo Silva.
Give me Bernardo any second of the game.

Eventually, Mount will take position 10 in the team, give it 18 months you will see. Even Wout was tried as a 10.
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All that and you forgot we just made him club captain.
 
Concerned that he missed quite a few easy chances in the pre-season. But happy that he got into those positions.
 
bringbackbebe said:
You do realize some fans know a lot about Mount, probably more than Ten Hag, and have been basing their judgements based on years of youtube highlights? .000001 years still counts as years, but that's beyond the point.
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You could read Chinese newspapers for 10 years and still not have a clue what's happening.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Worst of the three??

What has Bruno done in his career to get the praises some of you people give him?

Bruno has never played in a champions league semi final in his fecking career, not a single game..

He's 29 years old in the next 30 DAYS by the way.

Never won any meaningful trophy in his career.
Never been involved in a major club title winning team or campaign.

Don't come here with carabao cup.

You people are very blindsided, there is a reason ETH pushes Bruno to the wing. I've said it severally the reason IS, Bruno is not a midfielder for a very top side.
Its not a coincidence he has never won anything meaningful in his career or played in big decisive games frequently.


Just compare Bruno with Bernardo Silva. Both same age, same physical attributes, but one has won multiples leagues titles, involved in highest level games, scored in champions league semi finals, assist in final.


Eventually we will move on from Bruno in the next 18 months.
Being a transition team will never achieve great sustainable success. You beat Barca then get humiliated by Sevilla. Beat Liverpool at OT get humiliated at Anfield. Beat City at OT get hammered at Etihad. Not sustainable at all.


To show you how Cafe is blindsided by Bruno, people here will still choose Bruno over Bernardo Silva.
Give me Bernardo any second of the game.

Eventually, Mount will take position 10 in the team, give it 18 months you will see. Even Wout was tried as a 10.
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May be jumping to conclusion here but I feel like... you're not entirely happy with Bruno.
 
I have no doubt Mount (is there a Mrs. Mount?) will be a great signing for us, but I can see where the concerns are coming from.
 
If he had scored those couple of sitters in pre season then I think many views would be different.

Hopefully he got that out of his system now and will be deadly in his finishing from now on
 
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