Mason Mount

CM10 said:
He's allowed to have a bad game. I don't think he really stood out in any but was better earlier in the tournament. My issue with Mount (which isn't really his fault) was his status as one of the 'untouchables' when I don't think he'd earned that right yet.

There was no reason to keep him on the pitch for 100 minutes last night, other than trying to keep it tight. I really think it was those negative tactics which cost us. He could've quite easily come off around the 60 minute mark for a more adventurous player.
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Tuchel usually has him patrolling the pockets in between the lines. He's so effective for Chelsea in that role.

We obviously don't know what instructions he was given by Southgate, but I rarely saw him do that this tournament. He was hugging the touchline sometimes, running the channels furthest man forward sometimes, playing centrally next to Rice and Phillips sometimes, it was just kind of all over the place.

His defensive work was exemplary but it did feel a little overkill when we were already setting up with two DM's.
 
I just don’t see it with him, I read these articles by these fancy football journalists who know much more about football than me and they praise him, telling us how important it is that he starts despite the other talents we have and I don’t get it.
Im not willing to watch the same match twice to see these off the ball movements and presses that are so highly praised, call me old fashioned but I like my footballers to be effective with the ball.
 
Stacks said:
Same. I kept thinking "is it me? do I not see what he offers or is he just playing because he won the CL?"
Literally felt like he was a passenger the whole tournament. Reminds me of a Lingard yet he kept Grealish Sancho etc out most games. I'm not going to pretend they are the saviours but......
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I mean I admit I don’t see what’s great about Mount most of the time - but he also does seem like one of those players that may not be understood by fans and more valued by certainmanager and their tactics - which is fair.

It’s just that the CDM double pivot was super defensive to the point that we didn’t let in a single free play goal the whole tournament- what is the point of adding Mount on top of that? It seems like adding another hardworking midfielder to provide even another defensive layer.

I mean can you imagine Mctominay and Fred providing cover to Lingard or even VDB whilst we drop Bruno from being our creative CAM?

They may have their benefits they bring to a team, but creativity in front of a purely defensive midfield is not one of them.

I thought Rice and Phillips were good and would have been fine if it had a Grealish at CAM. Mount could have rotated with Phillips or Rice leaving with one CDM, one CM and one CAM - we ended up having 2 CDM playing behind pretty much another CM.
 
dal said:
————————Kane————————
Grealish———Foden———-Sterling

We should be aiming for this in the next tournament with Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood with the reserve ammo.

With these players we should be up there in the next 3 tournaments over the next 5 years.

The problem with Mount is he’s not Decisive in the attacking areas, he needs to be positioning himself to play in the midfield two, let’s stick to four at the back.

Can’t wait for the winter World Cup!
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Foden would struggle just as much as Mount did with that setup - all 4 of those attackers want to play in the same area. Sterling when played on the right constantly drifts infield, and Kane's insistence on dropping deep puts him right there as well:



If you're going to play 4 attackers, at bare minimum one of them has to stay wide.
 
Bebestation said:
I mean I admit I don’t see what’s great about Mount most of the time - but he also does seem like one of those players that may not be understood by fans and more valued by certainmanager and their tactics - which is fair.

It’s just that the CDM double pivot was super defensive to the point that we didn’t let in a single free play goal the whole tournament- what is the point of adding Mount on top of that? It seems like adding another hardworking midfielder to provide even another defensive layer.

I mean can you imagine Mctominay and Fred providing cover to Lingard or even VDB?

They may have their benefits they bring to a team, but creativity in front of a purely defensive midfield is not one of them.

I thought Rice and Phillips were good and would have been fine if it had a Grealish at CAM. Mount could have rotated with Phillips or Rice leaving with one CDM, one CM and one CAM - we ended up having 2 CDM playing behind pretty much a CM.
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Agreed but I think another problem caused by the two CDMs was that there was not much vertical progression through the midfield - Maguire coming back helped a lot on that front, but even then I can't help but think England should have gone 4-3-3 with Mount and Bellingham as 8s in front of Rice. Obviously a bit of hindsight but I thought the warning signs were there against Denmark - there was too much space in front of the two defensive midfielders.
 
If you were to summarize last nights performance it would be he runs around a lot
 
TheReligion said:
Your points are fair but I don't see Mount as being good enough to build a team around. Certainly not based on what he's shown during the Euros.

I don't like how Southgate approached it myself and I do think Mount is a great option but other than his workrate I think he's been very disappointing this tournament.
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If someone goes from being a key player in a (comfortable) UCL win to whatever he was last night then while not totally absolving him of any blame surely the coaching staff have to be looked at first?
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
I just don’t see it with him, I read these articles by these fancy football journalists who know much more about football than me and they praise him, telling us how important it is that he starts
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I don't really take much notice of journalists either to be fair.

Thomas Tuchel however has that exact opinion you describe and I'll stick my neck on the line and say he defiently knows his stuff.
 
Dancfc said:
If someone goes from being a key player in a (comfortable) UCL win to whatever he was last night then while not totally absolving him of any blame surely the coaching staff have to be looked at first?
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Some players play better for their clubs than their country, or vice versa. It is what it is and it's happened to many players who were better than Mount.

It might be down to the coaching staff, but there's something about Mount on that pitch lining up with Kane and Sterling and it really doesn't look right.

He earned his place with the season he had, but after his second appearance in the tournament it looked quite clear that either he wasn't quite up to it, or the system didn't suit him. I'm not entirely sure there is a better like for like change either, and that's another one on the coaching staff who didn't seem to adaptable until very late in games.
 
He is a good technical player in the hole and I think he's generally been alright in the Euros.

He wasn't what England needed last night though. England needed a ball carrier (or two) on the wings to relieve the crazy pressure on the defence and he isn't that.
 
Just looking back on last nights game, Mount proved to have a below average performance, missing a few good opportunities, connecting with a great cross from Shaw and trying to be over cute with a 1-2 when Sterling was in on goal unmarked. He also then started giving the ball away on numerous occasions.
 
I really like Mount as a player - works really hard and unselfishly for others - and I didn’t think too much when he started.

it was obvious however, that it wasn’t working and he should have be subbed much earlier to bring on Grealish or an actual winger.
 
Golden Nugget said:
I really like Mount as a player - works really hard and unselfishly for others - and I didn’t think too much when he started.

it was obvious however, that it wasn’t working and he should have be subbed much earlier to bring on Grealish or an actual winger.
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Mount is a decent player, the problem is Southgate had absolute cracker and in my opinion the best midfielder in the Premier League Jack Grealish and he gave him frekin 15 minutes, that was a big joke.
 
Wayne's World said:
Said it before he got this over the top praise from every English pundit in past 12 months but he's not good enough in a top team, Chelsea will soon drop him under Tuchel's management too
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There is no hyping around him mate. He is good at what he does or what he asked for. Many were puzzled when he got picked.

He did get picked on team for what he brings than his name. It was easy to put him in bench if there is no necessary of him considering media clamouring about grealish foden or Sancho not other way around.

Even before the final game whoscored rating for all players in combined Italy England 11 he pushed out barella in ratings alone to get a place in midfield. I know you don't want to see what he brings but managers have other ideas though.
 
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Mount presses hard and makes everyone else on Chelsea play better. In 90s terms he is our Dennis Rodman and a pivotal player. He is loved for all the clean up work and putting the attack in motion. He is not a finisher, he has never been a great winger for us. He was a major reason we won the UCL for all the little things he brings. If anyone is trying pin this England loss on Mount, they are fools. He played the role the manager asked of him. There are players who didnt.
 
Dancfc said:
I don't really take much notice of journalists either to be fair.

Thomas Tuchel however has that exact opinion you describe and I'll stick my neck on the line and say he defiently knows his stuff.
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No doubt about that. I mean I might have only watched him play a dozen times, perhaps I’ve been unlucky and only seen him on an off day. There are plenty of posters who share my opinion though, is he a particularly hot and cold type of player? Do you value what he brought to the team yesterday?
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
No doubt about that. I mean I might have only watched him play a dozen times, perhaps I’ve been unlucky and only seen him on an off day. There are plenty of posters who share my opinion though, is he a particularly hot and cold type of player? Do you value what he brought to the team yesterday?
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As @WeePat said above the difference is how he's utilised by both managers is night and day. Not saying it's totally exonerated him for last night but he was swimming against the tide from the off with the set up and being basically played as a winger.

I said last night in this thread although not exactly the same position he reminds me a bit of Pedro, ie he won't be the star man himself but fits very well into functioning systems. Pedro himself looked awful at times when the team/system wasn't working (ala Chelsea 15/16) but at the same time has played with Messi, Iniesta and Xavi at their peaks and didn't look even slightly out of place.
 
Giggsyking said:
Yes. do you think there has been a player in the English football better than Ryan Giggs? 13 PL. What an idiotic post.
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Yes i do but i wasn't even talking about the footballer i was talking about the human being.
 
Dancfc said:
As @WeePat said above the difference is how he's utilised by both managers is night and day. Not saying it's totally exonerated him for last night but he was swimming against the tide from the off with the set up and being basically played as a winger.

I said last night in this thread although not exactly the same position he reminds me a bit of Pedro, ie he won't be the star man himself but fits very well into functioning systems. Pedro himself looked awful at times when the team/system wasn't working (ala Chelsea 15/16) but at the same time has played with Messi, Iniesta and Xavi at their peaks and didn't look even slightly out of place.
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Agreed. I'd add that he seemed a bit out of steam. The whole tourney already imho, first games he had some genuinely great moments still but he played rather tame by his standards. Partly because he was told to by the manager I guess but he strives a lot due his energetic runs and workrate. Already did look a bit overplayed at the end of the season at Chelsea - still played mostly brilliant though - but he should have been rotated much more with, dunno, Grealish most likely. That'd mean that Southgate would have to abandon his super-conservative style (Grealish eventually more attacking minded / unpredictable than Mount) but that'd have been likely a win-win as well..

Since Southgate man-managed quite poorly on many accounts and Mount played exceptional for Derby as well as for Chelsea on a regular basis so far I'd be pretty sure how to blame his bad-ish input on the guy at the sideline. :D Same with Foden for example.
 
Mount is best used i think as a number 8 in a midfield three. I thought he played well in the first two games but after the isolation period he was poor. Not sure why 3 poor performances in the Euros overwrites his whole season which was a really good season from him.
Don't think Mount quite has the dribbling ability, the quick feet to play in those inside forward positions.
 
Dancfc said:
As @WeePat said above the difference is how he's utilised by both managers is night and day. Not saying it's totally exonerated him for last night but he was swimming against the tide from the off with the set up and being basically played as a winger.

I said last night in this thread although not exactly the same position he reminds me a bit of Pedro, ie he won't be the star man himself but fits very well into functioning systems. Pedro himself looked awful at times when the team/system wasn't working (ala Chelsea 15/16) but at the same time has played with Messi, Iniesta and Xavi at their peaks and didn't look even slightly out of place.
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Yeah by no means absolving Mount, although it probably does across that way. I was calling for him to be subbed or left out of the team for Grealish for most of the tournament. He just wasn't doing much in an attacking sense to justify being an guaranteed starter. So I can definitely understand the frustration and the criticism that is shoved in his direction, even if I think people are being a tad unfair with him.
 
Bit odd playing him on the left. Even odder leaving him on for so long. Oh well.
 
Mount is a solid footballer who serves Chelsea well and would be a great servant to United. But he really didn't have a good tournament at all for England. A shame, as Southgate had it within his power to make the necessary player adjustments to overcome Italy.
 
I don't care for his ability. Don't rate and will never appreciate his game. I just don't like it when pundits try to ram acceptance of a player down our throats. Likely he will develop further, good for him but him playing in the World Cup as a starter might not be of great benefit.
 
Rajiztar said:
There is no hyping around him mate. He is good at what he does or what he asked for. Many were puzzled when he got picked.

He did get picked on team for what he brings than his name. It was easy to put him in bench if there is no necessary of him considering media clamouring about grealish foden or Sancho not other way around.

Even before the final game whoscored rating for all players in combined Italy England 11 he pushed out barella in ratings alone to get a place in midfield. I know you don't want to see what he brings but managers have other ideas though.
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Nope, the clamouring was to drop Sterling for one of those guys, not Mount it was already established he'd be playing in that midfield according to most pundits.
 
Brwned said:
He’s just a nearly player. Good vision but without the passing range to match, so he picks the right player but hardly gives him a chance in key areas. All those “key passes” are a bit deceptive when it disregards how easy it is to receive the pass…
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Eh I would say this is a ridiculous statement look at his champions league final pass. Havertez couldn't of asked for better weight
 
He was rubbish last night but I thought it ludicrous that as he somehow stayed on into extra time, that he didn’t stay on long enough to take a pen. He’s a known set-piece taker and I was telling myself as the game wore on that it’s the only reason he is being kept on the pitch.
 
Rozay said:
He was rubbish last night but I thought it ludicrous that as he somehow stayed on into extra time, that he didn’t stay on long enough to take a pen. He’s a known set-piece taker and I was telling myself as the game wore on that it’s the only reason he is being kept on the pitch.
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He was rubbish all tournament, not only last night.
 
I am not following any Chelsea’s matches except the ones with United and I am watching lots of England matches.

Can someone explain to me what am I not seeing here.

Chelsea player of the year, transfermarkt value 75 mln, being first player at 10 in English national team yet whenever I watch him play he is abysmal.

He is exactly what our own VDB in that 10 role show so far in United shirt, Pass and move without anything coming out of it. I do not see a player in him, at least not very good one.

Maybe after watching Bruno play i would like to see every other nr 10 to play similar role, and maybe he is just limited player compared to Bruno but, seeing lots of Chelsea fans here i would love to read what I am missing here.

I have seen him played around 20 matches and not even ones I was impressed.
 
Really like him as a player - I think if he has another decent season (i.e proves himself not to be another Dele Alli) then we should be in for him. He’s easily good enough to compete for a spot in our side and it’ll add more depth. English lad as well so probably would be a dream come true for him to play for us.
 
3vra said:
I am not following any Chelsea’s matches except the ones with United and I am watching lots of England matches.

Can someone explain to me what am I not seeing here.

Chelsea player of the year, transfermarkt value 75 mln, being first player at 10 in English national team yet whenever I watch him play he is abysmal.

He is exactly what our own VDB in that 10 role show so far in United shirt, Pass and move without anything coming out of it. I do not see a player in him, at least not very good one.

Maybe after watching Bruno play i would like to see every other nr 10 to play similar role, and maybe he is just limited player compared to Bruno but, seeing lots of Chelsea fans here i would love to read what I am missing here.

I have seen him played around 20 matches and not even ones I was impressed.
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I do think he's slightly overrated and not really a top top player. However, he is definitely one of those whose strengths lie in their link up play and hence they improve the whole despite not particularly doing anything flashy on their own. That you compare him to VDB in a United shirt also does indeed show that Bruno has clouded your judgement. While Mount is definitely nowhere near Bruno's level, he has other strengths which make him a very good footballer - he's a good passer, excellent presser, good at getting out of tight spaces, fairly creative, seems to have a very good mentality and most importantly he thinks quickly and hence the good link up with the rest of the team. Where he isn't so great IMO is individual brilliance that the very best have - both technically and physically. VDB on the other hand genuinely is a nothing player for Manchester United, and that the idea of his displays would win him POTY at Sunderland let alone a club like Chelsea is laughable.

Btw if England performances are your barometer, then Sancho is shit, Scholes was a worse CM than Gerrard/Lampard and so on.
 
He's a Tom Cleverley like player but at a range of 6-9 out of 10 each game, rather than a 4-7.

He keeps the shape, moves the ball, presses hard and when it clicks can contribute goals and assist but otherwise works to bring out the best in others and implement the overall gameplan unselfishly.
 
redrobed said:
Really like him as a player - I think if he has another decent season (i.e proves himself not to be another Dele Alli) then we should be in for him. He’s easily good enough to compete for a spot in our side and it’ll add more depth. English lad as well so probably would be a dream come true for him to play for us.
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this is a troll post right?
 
Neil_Buchanan said:
I just don’t see it with him, I read these articles by these fancy football journalists who know much more about football than me and they praise him, telling us how important it is that he starts despite the other talents we have and I don’t get it.
Im not willing to watch the same match twice to see these off the ball movements and presses that are so highly praised, call me old fashioned but I like my footballers to be effective with the ball.
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I share this opinion. Just can't see this amazing player he's being touted as.
 
So England have some very good attacking players, yet we play with Mount, I do not understand why he is playing every minute.

In the Euros, we won games without him, played better football yet whenever he is fit, he is first name on the team sheet.

Watching him play, he is a very good player but he is not creative, this England team has 1 creative player in Grealish in the starting line up, whilst have 4 on the bench or not picked.
 
He’s just not that good. He’s ok.

I think the London media are desperate to have a top player come through the Chelsea ranks and are promoting him as something he’s not.
 
It looks like Rice and Phillips are our starting midfield two for the time being. With that being the case, do we really need a defensive minded 10 in addition to them?

If we're sticking with a 4-2-3-1, then I think Grealish should be our 10, Sterling on the left, Greenwood right, Kane up top. I personally would prefer Maddison over Mount as our 10, too.
 
He's a very good footballer, technically good, retains possession, works hard. It's no coincidence that he has become a player managers like to use. He's exactly what they want to offer balance to a team.

But I think there are probably times when he's less useful in this England setup precisely because of the balance we have. When you have Rice and Phillips who are skewed towards defensive solidity I do think there is room to be braver with the extra man. Southgate must think Mount can be a threat but he hasn't really shown that in an England shirt.
 
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