There’s no reason this won’t be an excellent signing, all the top clubs were after Mount. He’ll add goals and creativity from midfield which we are lacking apart from Bruno. We’re gonna have a lot of high level games next season being back in the champions league so we need more quality players and he certainly is one. If we can get him for 40/55m it’s a great piece of business.
Mason Mount | Confirmed
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
- Start date
- Status
No I meant what I said, John o Shea isn’t British, do try and keep up, there’s a good lad.
I don't really see the sense in that tbh. It will mean Casemiro continues to shoulder the burden of starting attacks and this just solidifies us in being a team that is poor in possession.
Personally I think we need someone playing closer to Casemiro who can ease him of the passing responsibility he currently has.
tbf its both set of fans. Just something about a not-quite-well-known fancy name player makes the fans chomping at the bits with excitement. Just something fans have been conditioned to.
Good post edit. Anyway unless you disagree and think that Mount is comparable to John O'Shea. Totally irrelevant.
I just threw Sesko in there mate because I feel he has big potential. Maybe he isn't ready right now but Sesko and Ferguson from Brighton are two strikers who I feel have the ability to reach a world class level. And I would hope we try and sign one out of the two players in the next 18 months.
This is the way.
Wonder how that set-up works with a RB like Frimpong instead (presumably pushing high into the four) and one of Bruno/Mount rotating into the two? As Frimpong is the RB we've been most linked with in recent months.
If anything people should be excited by the Mount signing. Because I struggle to see how that set up wouldn't be some front-foot fun at least.
If Mount was Irish there'd be a lot more enthusiasm for signing him.
You can’t say Mason and O’Shea have in common being British.
Good job he's British then.
Are we sure? It can apparently be quite hard to tell.
What do you reckon the point I was making was? Do you reckon it was my sneaky English attempt at reclaiming the republic of Ireland? No it was that they are not comparable as players. In fact the whole point was both being British was totally irrelevant.
Jesus Christ I apologise for forgetting O'Shea played for ROI rather than NI.
Personally prefer Mount over someone like Mac Allister at Brighton, but at some of the figures floating around it’s nuts. I think £40-45m is fair given 1 year left and the homegrown tax. At that price I’m all for it.
Ship out McT and Fred for £40-45m combined, say good bye to Sabitzer, do what we can to get rid of a crocked Donny.
Then fill the remaining gaps with Rabiot on a free and Lavia as the Casemiro to-be.
If that happens I won’t even be too pissed off at missing out on Rice, Caicedo, Ugarte, etc.
Ship out McT and Fred for £40-45m combined, say good bye to Sabitzer, do what we can to get rid of a crocked Donny.
Then fill the remaining gaps with Rabiot on a free and Lavia as the Casemiro to-be.
If that happens I won’t even be too pissed off at missing out on Rice, Caicedo, Ugarte, etc.
If he's coming in to replace 1 of mct or fred, then I don't see what's wrong. I don't think we have budget for a big midfield signing this year.
Mount is nothing like John o Shea. O Shea was a defender who played mostly in the full back positions, while he did occasionally play in midfield ( and even in goals once) the vast majority of his playing career was in defence. Mount is an attacking midfielder who has never played in defensive and has no attributes to do so. They are incomparable.
Maybe a better comparison would be Jack Grealish he was Irish once wasn't he?
Fantastic to have another Irish player joining us.
Because they have 694 players in the squad and on loan, and plan to buy another 233 this summer. It’s like an addiction for Boehly
Sentences you never thought you’d read.
I reckon it was emblematic of you trying to force an argument but not really knowing what you’re talking about.
Wow he's actually joining? Not sure about where he would fit in the team.
They are paying him as much as we pay Williams
Even Rashford looked crap at times with NT.
I cant complain really especially if the price is alright. Dont see Chelsea charging much with the state that they are in. Klopp won CL and PL with James Milner in midfield so it all comes down to manager trust and the player giving it all. Which will be the case for Mount. Our stellar midfielder signings didnt guarantee them to be successful either. In my mind its better to sign 7-8 out of 10 players that will work their arses off for the system than 10 out of 10 who think they are entitled to win trophies with little efforts. Of course the ideal ones have both but they are rarity and will eat up all of our CF budget.
Just reading a few comments about how this is purely an ETH request and we should be shutting this down. Last summer was a little different because we didn’t really have much in place in the way of recruitment strategy, but surely you don’t think that’s the same this summer, especially considering they’ve already said there’s a team of them that mull over signings now, data driven and they veto etc. I’ve no doubt ETH has said he would like Mount, however look at Mount’s profile and situation
24
English homegrown
Last year of contract
Attributes that the coach wants in a midfielder
We would have been keeping tabs on him regardless and it’s likely they’d have mulled over him and other midfield targets and thought it was too much of a good opportunity to miss. There’s absolutely no way the recruitment team have said ‘So Eric which midfielder are we signing’ and he just said Mount and that was it. I know you all want Caicedo or whoever else but let’s have a little faith and stop slating the manager for something you don’t even know has happened
24
English homegrown
Last year of contract
Attributes that the coach wants in a midfielder
We would have been keeping tabs on him regardless and it’s likely they’d have mulled over him and other midfield targets and thought it was too much of a good opportunity to miss. There’s absolutely no way the recruitment team have said ‘So Eric which midfielder are we signing’ and he just said Mount and that was it. I know you all want Caicedo or whoever else but let’s have a little faith and stop slating the manager for something you don’t even know has happened
His post is pure guess work and reads like that's what he wants rather than coming from the mind of ten Hag.
No one really knows how he will play as all of his teams have had different structures.
Personally I think he's a Sabitzer/VDB replacement but one that would stop Bruno moving out wide as Mount is a better option there.
Hardly. They've demonstrated past two windows they're willing to spend regardless.
Signing Mount means we might see a different system next season because ETH and the scouting team couldn’t find the right player that fits Frenkie de Jong's profile. When ten Hag lost Frenkie de Jong, he changed the way how he set up from 4231 to 433. The following below is when Ajax had the possession and start their build up play vs Dortmund in 2021/2022 season. You can see that Gravenberch is nowhere near in Ajax build up play phase to progress the ball and he used Alvarez as his no 6.
Casemiro role will be similar to how ten Hag used Alvarez. Alvarez is not a deep-playmaker or he is not someone who is known with his passing so he was given role to be less involved in the build up play. You can see below Alvarez (21/22) stats compared to Blind, Timber, and Martinez (The below are 21/22 stats not 22/23 stats). Alvarez is shown with much less passes attempted and less progressive passes in comparison to the others.
Based on the signing of Mount and the fact he has Casemiro as his DM in his team, I think ten Hag wants to build a set up that is similar to his 21/22 Ajax system. Our build up and attacking transition will be something like this:
GK
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Bruno and Mount will play in Berghuis and Gravenberch role. While Casemiro will play in Alvarez's role. So to answer your question, it makes sense if this is how ten Hag wants to set up.
Even managers like Pep and Arteta who play a 4-3-3 that is really a 3-2-4-1 in possession don't play with two real attacking midfielders at the top of their midfield box like Bruno and Mount. They always have one of the 8s be a more conservative player that does more in ball progression and drops deeper to provide tactical solutions and often maintains more conservative positioning for the counter-press even when the opponent is pinned back, whether that is Gundogan or Bernardo in that role for City (or apparently Kovacic going forward) or Xhaka (and going forward probably Rice or Caicedo) in that role for Arsenal. This player also usually needs to be in the middle of the first bank of four next to the DM in a 4-4-2 defensive block. You can see all this in the heat maps for these kinds of players or just in the distribution of their touches between defensive, middle, and attacking thirds. Eriksen actually played that kind of role last year for United, his touches were very highly concentrated in the middle third of the pitch and only 28% were in the final third. This is only a little less than a player like Gundogan who had only 33% final third touches despite City living in the opponent's half of the pitch. Xhaka similarly had only 35% final third touches despite Arsenal playing most matches with an extremely high line and Xhaka himself sometimes being very aggressively positioned to help pin the defensive line in buildup.
You can argue that Mount has the skill set to adapt but what is unquestionable is that he has never played this kind of role before. He has been either the more attacking and aggressively positioned 8 of a midfield three or one of the two behind the striker in a 3-4-2-1. His touches in the final third have ranged from 46% of his total to 59% and he has never played anything remotely close to the kind of role Eriksen played last year for Ten Hag or that Gundogan plays for City or Xhaka has played for Arsenal in terms of spending most of his time in the middle third of the pitch facilitating play rather than in the final third.
So either Ten Hag will do something quite new and interesting with his midfield that even very aggressive, attack-oriented managers like Pep and Arteta aren't comfortable doing, or he will convert Mount or Bruno to a role they have never played, or he plans to mainly alternate Mount and Bruno (and perhaps eventually phase Bruno out of the team).
You can argue that Mount has the skill set to adapt but what is unquestionable is that he has never played this kind of role before. He has been either the more attacking and aggressively positioned 8 of a midfield three or one of the two behind the striker in a 3-4-2-1. His touches in the final third have ranged from 46% of his total to 59% and he has never played anything remotely close to the kind of role Eriksen played last year for Ten Hag or that Gundogan plays for City or Xhaka has played for Arsenal in terms of spending most of his time in the middle third of the pitch facilitating play rather than in the final third.
So either Ten Hag will do something quite new and interesting with his midfield that even very aggressive, attack-oriented managers like Pep and Arteta aren't comfortable doing, or he will convert Mount or Bruno to a role they have never played, or he plans to mainly alternate Mount and Bruno (and perhaps eventually phase Bruno out of the team).
I've only seen Frimpong in highlight vids and he doesn't look like someone who would be best utilised in a inverted midfield role (could be wrong). But if we did sign him, then that could mean we're signing a deeper lying midfielder for sure and Bruno and Mount probably wouldn't be starting regularly together, centrally. Frimpong getting forward with the two deeper mids (Casemiro & de Jong) providing balance with and without the ball. And I don't think we'll sign de Jong.
But having said that, the links to Pavard or Timber probably make more sense due to their ability to invert into midfield. We also need a deep lying midfielder imo because we can't just rely on Casemiro and Eriksen to occupy the deeper midfield positions. So I'm hoping to see a midfield metronome brought to the club who is comfortable operating in deeper areas of the midfield. And that will give ten Hag more flexibility due to the extra options he will have to choose from.
Mount is a good player and will help ten Hag implement his system. At Ajax he was given players like Edson Alvarez who is limited on the ball. And to ten Hag's credit, he made it work due to inverting the fullbacks (Blind/Mazraoui) because Alvarez who is a DM wasn't great on the ball.
It's based off watching ten Hag at Ajax where he utilised both inverted wingers and inverted fullbacks in a 325 in possession.
he has played that deeper role on occasion, and I think he likes playing there as long passing is one of his best attributes
He had the opportunity to do that this season and chose not to so I don't see why he'd change it next season.Signing Mount means we might see a different system next season because ETH and the scouting team couldn’t find the right player that fits Frenkie de Jong's profile. When ten Hag lost Frenkie de Jong, he changed the way how he set up from 4231 to 433. The following below is when Ajax had the possession and start their build up play vs Dortmund in 2021/2022 season. You can see that Gravenberch is nowhere near in Ajax build up play phase to progress the ball and he used Alvarez as his no 6.
Casemiro role will be similar to how ten Hag used Alvarez. Alvarez is not a deep-playmaker or he is not someone who is known with his passing so he was given role to be less involved in the build up play. You can see below Alvarez (21/22) stats compared to Blind, Timber, and Martinez (The below are 21/22 stats not 22/23 stats). Alvarez is shown with much less passes attempted and less progressive passes in comparison to the others.
I think what ten Hag wants to build a set up that is similar to his 21/22 Ajax system. Our build up and attacking transition will be something like this:
GK
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Bruno and Mount will play in Berghuis and Gravenberch role. While Casemiro will play in Alvarez's role. So to answer your question, it makes sense if this is how ten Hag wants to set up.
EtH plays to the strengths of his teams. That Ajax back four might be the best set of defenders on the ball I've seen in years. He played through them simply because they used the ball better than the midfielders. None of our back 5 players use the ball as well as the Ajax players did, well except Martinez obviously.
Casemiro is miles better at passing than Alvarez, which is why EtH relied on one passing the ball in his teams and the other being asked to pass to the CBs.
Like i said he plays to where the strengths are in his team rather than being fixated on a particular style. Casemiro is our best player and Bruno is our most creative player so this team will always play through our midfield.
Ajax could dominate possession which is why they could have such an attacking setup. Until we become a much better team in possesion, playing with two 8s pushed high up will result in us being incredibly open and on the end of a few spankings like we had this season. With no GK, RB or another CB more comfortable on the ball than Varane, we cannot play like his Ajax of 21/22.
At City this season, Pep uses his back four and Rodri in his build up play to allow his two midfielders (Gundogan/Silva and KDB) in more advanced role. The following is Pep's build up play. Of course, Rodri is exceptional passer but the counter argument is he allows Gundogan and KDB in more advanced role in his build up play.
Ederson
Walker Dias Akanji
Stones Rodri
Silva - KDB - Gundogan - Grealish
Haaland
Walker Dias Akanji
Stones Rodri
Silva - KDB - Gundogan - Grealish
Haaland
Other way to look at it , is he better signing than Sabitzer (for 20-30 million).
Fee seems to be higher but since club is looking to secure a player, whose contract ends next season and does not have great suitors for a high fee ,asap suggests that Eth is very much interested in him.
Fee seems to be higher but since club is looking to secure a player, whose contract ends next season and does not have great suitors for a high fee ,asap suggests that Eth is very much interested in him.
What's been rumoured so far:
- He's rejected all offers proposed
- Wants parity with what Reece James has received (£250k). Chelsea not prepared to meet that
- Doesn't want to sign a mega long contract CFC have been offering
- One year left on contract, CFC prefer to sell than to lose on a free like with Rudiger/Christensen
- Very good player but not indispensable
- Wants to be somewhere where he feels more valued
- Wants to play in a team where he has a defined role/position
- Wants to play in a team where he has more chance of starting
- Fed up of the abuse he receives online from Chelsea fans (deleted his Twitter not long ago, might be for other reasons)
- Wants to get paid what he feels he deserves
- Status