He looks like a swimming instructor or holiday rep to me.
Mason Mount | Confirmed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran are here to talk about a frustrating 2 points dropped at Crystal Palace. They then discuss the regeneration of Old Trafford. Finally, Nik is joined by special guest Michael Statham from the Football Oranje podcast - who gives us a more in depth look at our EL opposition FC Twente, and then runs through the (many) Dutch connections currently at United.
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He looks like a swimming instructor or holiday rep to me.
Prior to the World Cup and Chelsea's new sporting directors being installed, ownership and Mount had a preliminary verbal agreement on a long term deal. Stewart and Winstanley then came in and realised what a catastrophe our wage structure was, so they withdrew the offer and gave another one in line with what our recent signings get - a lower base salary that's highly incentivised. Mount rejected this deal, having been (I'd say rightly) a bit miffed given he's been on a low wage for a while and outperformed far more expensive imports.
From there, the hierarchy offered him increasingly lucrative one year deals to prevent him leaving on a free next summer and to allow for further negotiation over a long-term deal - these are all the offers Mount rejected.
I generally agree, but If we are to move towards 3 man midfield (#6+two attacking #8s) than Mount is most likely the best suited to that setup. Casemiro and Bruno not so much IMO, for a couple of reasons. That means we will have another season "in transition". This is why I am a bit surprised if we really needed to spend so much money on Mount, but we can only judge this after a while.
I don't expect this midfield to give us much control and defensive stability, we'll see the good one week and the bad the second week without any particular reason. We will still struggle against organized pressing. We will not get overrun that easily what is the biggest bonus, but feels a bit underwhelming if that's the biggest upgrade compared to last season midfield.
Yeah. Granting Mason Mount 250k raised to 300k/wk wage is just insane.
Recent signings? You were giving out 300k contracts to 31 year old defenders not 12 months ago.
Edit Fernandez had 6 months of European football under this belt and you signed him in January for 315k a week?
https://www.allsoccer.co.uk/news/enzo-fernandez-salary-at-chelsea/
Definitely this
Never seen so much immediate displeasure for a signing.
Well yes - recent signings being those from January onward, once Stewart / Winstanley were in place. Koulibaly's deal was quickly identified as an albatross, which is why Chelsea sold him ASAP despite eating a significant loss.
Enzo's contract has incentives built in - he's not on 315k per week now that we're out of the CL.
Link to that?
Tbf every contract is incentives based, no one gets their full wages every week. Every contract will have lot of bonuses attached to it.
I agree, we will be missing core parts to our midfield.
Look at the first few pages of this thread. The caf has never been particularly hot for Mount. I'm sure most would love to be proven wrong (apart from a few weirdos who'd see us fail just to say they were right).
"Just in: Mason Mount"
Crikey these medicals are thorough, aren't they?
Crikey these medicals are thorough, aren't they?
So I guess this weeks agenda for us is to endure 37 Social Media posts about MM while Onana situation doesn’t get solved, no links to a #9, no new owner news, no progress in selling Martial, Maguire and Co. Gotta love it
You won't be reading that many with twitter's limit!
Arteta had clearly been building that style of play with players who fit, there's a big difference.
Liverpool have also had a rejig of their team. They played a defensive midfield when they had a front 3 whi could score 90 goals between them. Now that they have less firepower it makes sense to put more attacking players in midfield.
Mount filling in for Eriksen in that same role doesn't change a thing defensively in our half. Mount is an incredible counterpresser so would help in winning the ball back higher up the pitch but in our half he'll still offer very little.
What people are missing is Casemiro no longer has the legs to consistently cover the open spaces our midfield will leave. We saw it a tonne last season Casemiro sliding in for loose balls which he mistimed and led to a free run at our defence. Partey and Saliba were able to cover spaces very well for Arsenal, just as Walker and Rodri do for City. In their best physical versions, Casemiro and Varane would be the perfect duo for this but its clear they aren't as mobile as before even though they are still world class defenders. A slightly more reserved style will help them and us.
Just look how easy it was to bypass Liverpool once Fabinho and VVD's legs gave up. It takes a really strong and athletic team to be able to play the way people are proposing and I've often said our team is not impressive athletically. Arsenal blow us out of the water in that department.
Lad in the back, middle looks Photoshopped
You're entitled to your opinion mate, but you're looking at it in a very pessimistic light. I agree with some of your concerns in general, but I'm also open minded about how it could work. You also have to bear in mind that the midfield only started to look a bit ragged after an incredibly draining run of games brought on by our Europa run and the winter WC. We don't have to contend with either of those things next season.
Casemiro's form also dipped because he missed so many games in quick succession due to suspension. I know he's getting on a bit, but there's no reason to think he'll drop off a cliff that much. He had to contribute to our attack a lot as well last season, so having a more mobile and attack minded #8 might allow him to focus more on just shielding the defense and conserve some of his energy.
Judging by the type of GKs and defenders EtH has targeted, it's obvious he wants us to dominate and control games more. This in itself should take a lot of the pressure off of our defenders, if he can get what he needs and implement it effectively. Unfortunately, he can't just revamp every part of the team that needs it in one window like Pep is able to do at City. He has to make moves towards that vision, whilst also accepting he'll have to make do with areas as they are, like our RB situation.
You also need to stop comparing the side to all these other teams. It's likely what we'll see will be entirely different. We have no idea how he'll utilise Mount yet, most people are just making educated guesses, but you don't need to write it off so hard before a ball has even be kicked.
Easy to say with benefit of hindsight that Arteta was building for that style of play when season before last, his team was averaging 52% possession. They played nothing like how they did last season, it all fell in place for them and they never looked back (well in the last months they did).
So Liverpool have less firepower so it makes sense for them to put attacking players in midfield? If that's the case, why not for us when we have only Rashford who is a reliable goal scorer. We are the team that struggled for goals among top 6 teams. Not sure how exactly it makes sense for them but not for us.
Yes, Casemiro was left to do a lot, it's also because of Eriksen's work rate especially at the end of season. Mount has very good engine like Bruno, they cover lot of ground.
I agree we are not impressive athletically, and also lacks the aggressive pressing but the pressing is something team can work on and improve. We still need a work on the tactical side, that will improve with time and better additions to the team.
Paying over £50m for English players from the Premier League is our speciality. It always works out.
Who says the players that Ten Hag is signing doesn’t fit? If they didn’t fit his style of play then they wouldn’t be signed.
The team isn’t even being given a chance to fail on here.
Is Mason Mount in Carrington for his medical?
Hear, Hear.
We've signed plenty of English players for big money and it worked fine Cole, Rio, Carrick etc just recent times it has been an issue but in the past we used to do it regularly to a lot of success
i trust ten hag. If I didn't, this would feel a little like signing Lingard
The bit in bold has been my point for the last month or so. There is a belief that he's primarily being brought in to play alongside Bruno in the attacking midfield position with Casemiro behind them. There's many posts about how this will work or referencing the way other teams play as evidence it will also work for us. I'm merely providing the view on why I still think that midfield lacks balance. If you look at my posts, you'll see that I like Mount, I'm just not as convinced that he'll permanently be a CM. I think we'll see him in many different roles next season.
The Arteta thing is all a bit weird I agree but you don't go from what they were to what they became overnight. He was Pep's assistant and tactically held in really high regard, you could see all this from the AON documentary. I think this clearly was the end goal of how he wanted his team to play and he brought in specific players in Zinchenko, Jesus, Saliba and Ramsdale to be the final pieces of the puzzle. It took some time to implement but he finally got there. I guess you could argue the same with EtH.
We know Klopp's style is heavy metal gegenpressing. This is how his teams play, so moving to this style is something he's used to implementing in teams. He did this in his first year and a bit at Liverpool with Can ad the lone DM with Lallana and Wijnaldum in front. Back in 2017 both of those players were still known as attacking midfielders. This approach is one Klopp is familiar with and maybe even prefers.
The difference with EtH is the makeup of our team. EtH can absolutely play with a similar attacking structure as Arsenal or City, I mean he did it twice over at Ajax. My issue is the limitations of our team in midfield. We aren't a possession team and a midfield of Casemiro, Bruno and Mount can never be a great possession team in my opinion. That leaves us with the Liverpool route which probably makes more sense for us but I've spoken of my doubts regarding us defensively. Btw I don't think it will necessarily work for Liverpool either as I mentioned the physical decline of Fabinho and VVD.
I feel EtH at heart is a possession oriented manager but our two best attackers in Rashford and Bruno are best in counter attacking and quick football. Also our best player IMO in Casemiro also isn't a great base for a possession game. City are able to cover for Haaland and KDB's opposing styles to possession in a way we can't. I feel like our players are too contrasting to play in any one style effectively.
I guess we'll figure out what EtH is going for next season. Based on last season though, we were a bit of a mish mash of possession and counter attack. We really need to hone in on a particular style and commit to buying players for that system.
Because he’s sat in his seat, just happy to be there.
Whatever you said about Arteta, you can say that about EtH too and with added years of proven quality at highest level. Arteta looked like Moyes/Jose student than Pep's student with how he set up before last season, it was defensive and counters.
Klopp didn't play that midfield, Henderson was always a mainstay in their team. It was Can, Henderson, Wiji, Lallana and even Lucas stared 12 league games. Even if we just agree for the sake of it, it was same set up, it was many years ago and EtH set up in similar style last season and even before that at Ajax.
Like I said, we still have work to do, we are not good tactically (to the level we all want us to be) and our pressing is bit disoriented. That doesn't mean we have to take a different route/tactical set up. It's on EtH and recruitment team to coach and sign players who are more suited for his style to be better at playing the system.
Was against this signing from the start especially at the reported wages, however the fact the caf expert scouts are adamant he is a poor signing make me think he will be brilliant.
The track record from the caf scouts is poor to say the least, below are just a few signings that were absolutely clamoured for as being world class
Pogba
Sanchez
Sancho
Falcao
Di Maria
Memphis
Schweinsteiger
Schnerderlin
Players the caf scouts have been lukewarm on have been much better
Casimero
Martinez
Eriksen
Cavani
Mount*
No but in all seriousness, young, English has good experience in the league and Europe, I think Ten Hag wants him for a reason. We are getting quite an English contingent together now, let's hope they can click!
The track record from the caf scouts is poor to say the least, below are just a few signings that were absolutely clamoured for as being world class
Pogba
Sanchez
Sancho
Falcao
Di Maria
Memphis
Schweinsteiger
Schnerderlin
Players the caf scouts have been lukewarm on have been much better
Casimero
Martinez
Eriksen
Cavani
Mount*
No but in all seriousness, young, English has good experience in the league and Europe, I think Ten Hag wants him for a reason. We are getting quite an English contingent together now, let's hope they can click!
I think Mount is a brilliant, out of the box signing. He can replace both Eriksen and Sabitzer in the line-up and adds goals+assists.
If you are saying our biggest problem to solve is our defensive record, I think you are wrong about that. We need to add goals desperately. I remind you we had the most clean sheets.
Lastly, it is frankly embarrassing to read posts by people that think they know better than Ten Hag.
We can find a more defensive cm after we sell McTominay. Until then, he’ll do fine.
He might be Maguire signing an extension
to all the haters, just remember-
The problem with your post is that you lose any credibility when you're so adamant that this is a mistake and that it will 'inevitably fail'. I'm sorry, but unless you're some sort of omnipotent being, or you've ever managed a professional football club before, then you just sound silly. It's not about 'bowing to superior knowledge', it's about having faith in someone who has so far been very successful in what he does. I mean the absolute hubris on you to actually think you know more about building and coaching a football team than EtH does!
It's fine to have your opinions and to doubt transfers, many on here also feel that way. They are also more often than not completely wrong. I get that you're disappointed with the window so far, but it isn't over yet and there's every chance we manage to get good players in those positions you're worried about. It's a lot better for your mental health and enjoyment of football to try and envision a positive scenario where the transfer works out and makes us a better team.
Successful teams should always look to improve every position, something we've never really been allowed to do under the Glazers.
Ultimately this comes down less to Mount himself (who is a quality player being signed for a role that suits him) and more down to how viable ETH's tactical vision for the side actually is.
We'll need to see it in action alongside whatever other signings we make to judge. But far more so than with judgements of player quality, I'd be inclined to trust the manager when it comes to tactical and structural concepts. Especially when that basic structure (two #8/#10s ahead of a #6, supported by an inverted fullback) is one several teams around us seem to be opting for too. That doesn't mean it will work for us as well as it will for them, but I would suggest there's likely a reason they're all opting for that set-up.
We'll need to see it in action alongside whatever other signings we make to judge. But far more so than with judgements of player quality, I'd be inclined to trust the manager when it comes to tactical and structural concepts. Especially when that basic structure (two #8/#10s ahead of a #6, supported by an inverted fullback) is one several teams around us seem to be opting for too. That doesn't mean it will work for us as well as it will for them, but I would suggest there's likely a reason they're all opting for that set-up.
to all the haters, just remember-
This needs Martin Luther King's I Have a Dream speech playing over it
And you underrate him.
opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one.
just yours is a bit messier
He's saying even Chelsea fans know he didn't deserve the second one when it is Chelsea fans who voted for him
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