Mason Mount | Confirmed

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Skills said:
I'm not trying to argue he's a good coach who improves his players - which is why I didn't mention VdB.

It's disingenuous to call FDJ and De Ligt hype to just make ETH look better. They weren't - De Ligt was a well established player before ETH, and a mega talent. FDJ is still a very good player for Barcelona.
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Ten Hag joined Ajax a year after De Ligt made his debut and had appeared just 11 times in the league.
This post is so disingenuous that it’s insulting.
No offence but there’s a reason you went down this road and you’ll dance around this now just to continue your negative narrative
 
Skills said:
I'm not trying to argue he's a good coach who improves his players - which is why I didn't mention VdB.

It's disingenuous to call FDJ and De Ligt hype to just make ETH look better. They weren't - De Ligt was a well established player before ETH, and a mega talent. FDJ is still a very good player for Barcelona.
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:wenger:
 
Seveneric said:
On a whole, I'd say it's easier to quit redcafe, or put people on ignore, than it is to stop supporting United. So, maybe you and the others whose quality of life is being affected due to negativity might consider that?
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I'm not sure where I mentioned that I wanted to stop supporting United? I have enough perspective in my life to not let that negatively affect my overall happiness. I questioned why some of these doom mongers carry on if it obviously causes them so much anguish.

I mostly come back to Redcafe for the tweet roundups, and I've put quite a few people on ignore, but that seems to defeat the point of a discussion forum.

This forum has a very toxic problem amongst it's United supporting fanbase at the moment, which I think is quite sad. It was never perfect, but it never felt this bad. Most of the more balanced views and opinions come from the opposition fans who use it.
 
People should read the articles before commenting on them. Matt Law was clear in his article, why he thinks it's am embarrassing deal for Chelsea.
 
cyberman said:
Ten Hag joined Ajax a year after De Ligt made his debut and had appeared just 11 times in the league.
This post is so disingenuous that it’s insulting.
No offence but there’s a reason you went down this road and you’ll dance around this now just to continue your negative narrative
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De Ligt played 23 games including a European final for Ajax in 16/17. He started every single game from the knock out stages onwards in Europa League run. He started 6 of the last 10 league games of that season.

ETH then joined halfway through the following season. Up until that point De Ligt started every single league game. He was an established player in their starting XI.
 
scousers about to spend 60m on Dominik Szoboszlai but people whining about 55m for Mount.
 
Can we all just be happy we have a good player whose English, 24, plenty of experience, who isn't in the golden years of his career yet. Moulded into the team by Ten Hag at 55m, the same as Martinez, will turn out to be a decent deal. The annoyance of Chelsea supporters on certain channels over the last 24 hrs should be enough to suggest that we are ok here with this deal. Some are clouded by the Mount in an english shirt. Forget about that.
 
Skills said:
De Ligt played 23 games including a European final for Ajax in 16/17. He started every single game from the knock out stages onwards in Europa League run. He started 6 of the last 10 league games of that season.

ETH then joined halfway through the following season. Up until that point De Ligt started every single league game. He was an established player in their starting XI.
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He wasn’t well established. Nobody is well established with 11 league appearances to their name.
That’s not what well established means.

Edit it gets better. 563 minutes total in the league. Little over 6 full games worth of minutes
Utter nonsense
 
redIndianDevil said:
They wouldn't be at all, they have previous for this. They sold off De Bruyne, Salah, Lukaku(and bought Morata) etc.
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None of them are academy players who up until recently didn't see their career outside of Chelsea. That's the point made by the article, it would be like United having to sell Rashford. The term "embarrassed" is probably an overstatement but it is clearly not a good look, an example of that would be Bayern with Kroos or Nkunku/Coman for PSG.
 
Skills said:
Because it's not 11 appearances?
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I edited post but I’ll answer again
563 minutes in the league total, little over 6 full games. He had fractionally more than that in the EL for feck sake. What’s it combined? 12/13 game minutes total?
I’m not saying he didn’t play , I’m arguing against your loose definition of well established when 99 percent of his league minutes came within the 6 of the last 10 games of the season.
What you’re saying simply doesn’t make sense.
We both know you made your post without looking this up, no point in arguing now when you’ve dug yourself in like this
 
cyberman said:
I edited post but I’ll answer again
563 minutes in the league total, little over 6 full games. He had fractionally more than that in the EL for feck sake.
I’m not saying he didn’t play , I’m arguing against your loose definition of well established when 99 percent of his league minutes came within the 6 of the last 10 games of the season.
What you’re saying simply doesn’t make sense.
We both know you made your post without looking this up, no point in arguing now when you’ve dug yourself in like this
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The bit you're missing that he played the entire first half of the season before ETH joined in 17/18. I'm guessing you just didn't know that ETH only became the Ajax manager in January 2018 which is why you keep ignoring that bit.

You're wrong. De Ligt was by then Ajax's first choice CB. It's why he started the Europa League final at the end of 16/17 and then proceeded to start every single game for Ajax the season after before ETH joined.
 
Smores said:
70 million was their starting position for the negotiation that's all, unless you think they started with what they actually wanted but there very gullible.

If Inter say 100m for Onana are you gonna claim 90 million as a good deal? Obviously not.
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And Manutd did the same: they started with £45m and ended up paying the max we were willing to go to, which is £55m.

We know for certain that Manutd's maximum was £55m + £5m addons as there was talk of us walking away. We do not know what Chelsea really wanted, though. £70m + £10m addons (corrected by a poster above) may have been their starting point, but we don't know what their target amount was. In the end, we increased our bid by £10m + £5m addons (difficult addons to achieve, by the way) whilst they lowered their amount by £15m + £5m addons.

We also don't know whether the conditions around the addons have changed. Chelsea could have been proposing something easier than winning a major trophy. Essentially, you could add that £5m back to Chelsea as it is so difficult to attain, making their drop in asking price to be £15m + £10m addons.

The Onana bit is pretty irrelevant as the drop is only 10% in that asking price, whilst it is 25% with the Mount one (possibly 31% if you take into my last point).
 
JustinC00 said:
scousers about to spend 60m on Dominik Szoboszlai but people whining about 55m for Mount.
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It’s not comparable.
Chelsea need to sell to balance the books. Mount has had seriously underwhelming season. He only has 1 year left in his contract. And still they manage to get 60m from him..
 
RatPack said:
We started around 40 (fair offer) and Chelsea around 70 (no club wanted to pay this).

Our final third offer was 50+5. We ended up paying 55+5, so above final offer. Yes bad negotiation (especially for a player that was on the last year of contract and played poorly last year).

But if our intentions from the beginning was to get him for 60 or below then I guess it was acceptable negotiations. But other clubs will now know we do not do final offer.
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:lol:
A player worth anywhere between £80-100m based on today's prices, we got for a much lower cost because he was on his last year (again, see Sterling to Chelsea for a comparison).

In my mind, and just for context, I'm not invested in belittling the club I support in everything they do, this could turn out to be a very good deal.

He played well reasonably last season, not as good as previously (player of the year twice in a row) but then no one at Chelsea played well.

Just seems like people having a moan because they want to really.
 
Rajiztar said:
Thats why i said he is perfectly capable of carry out things tactically wanted by manager.

He has all the traits to be a no.8. If manager wants him to man mark midfielder or press certain area whoever comes in that area carrying ball he can accomplish the job.

He has pretty good spatial awareness and can manipulate little space to his team s advantage. Very little turn radius for him so he got time to keep the ball ticking even he receive the ball back to goal. Plenty of these traits can be applied to perfect no. 8.

So dont know what you are actually expecting from him. He is not destroyer thats for sure but can be a great no. 8.
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Sounds cool. Interesting how much of an upgrade he will be on Eriksen, seems to have more energy and tenacity but will still probably lose some of his attacking threat when deployed a bit deeper (I think people believe putting #10 in midfield means he will still put good numbers, just from a different position). I wouldn't judge midfielders based on G+A so I'm not that excited about Mount numbers, but at least it's a tool to have if Bruno needs to play RW/ be rested.
 
Enigma_87 said:
It’s not comparable.
Chelsea need to sell to balance the books. Mount has had seriously underwhelming season. He only has 1 year left in his contract. And still they manage to get 60m from him..
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Because he's a player valued at circa £80m!

It's all fecking relative, we have got him for £55m, that's a fair whack off the general consensus of his valuation,
 
SATA said:
His qualities and the fact that he always wanted to come here and play for us will make him a top hit at United. I'm delighted

Now get out the flight trackers!
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It's not like he's a childhood fan or something let's be real. He wants to come here because he took a look at the likes of Sancho and knew we would pay him more than anyone else plain and simple. Which is fair enough and understandable. Now let's hope we were all wrong to lament his every start for England as basically everyone on here did before we got linked to him and he actually somehow turns out to be good.
 
JPRouve said:
None of them are academy players who up until recently didn't see their career outside of Chelsea. That's the point made by the article, it would be like United having to sell Rashford. The term "embarrassed" is probably an overstatement but it is clearly not a good look, an example of that would be Bayern with Kroos or Nkunku/Coman for PSG.
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It's too much of an overstatement. I don't see Bayern or PSG crying about Nkunku or Kroos either. Chelsea has history of signing young talents, farming them out to loans and still spending loads of money on new players. They aren't known for promoting their youth like us at all. They should be embarrassed for losing Salah and De Bruyne because of the levels they have reached but Chelsea seem to get on which they will do for Mount as well.
 
redIndianDevil said:
It's too much of an overstatement. I don't see Bayern or PSG crying about Nkunku or Kroos either. Chelsea has history of signing young talents, farming them out to loans and still spending loads of money on new players. They aren't known for promoting their youth like us at all. They should be embarrassed for losing Salah and De Bruyne because of the levels they have reached but Chelsea seem to get on which they will do for Mount as well.
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Bayern and Kroos didn't go down well at all, especially with what he went on to achieve.
 
redIndianDevil said:
It's too much of an overstatement. I don't see Bayern or PSG crying about Nkunku or Kroos either. Chelsea has history of signing young talents, farming them out to loans and still spending loads of money on new players. They aren't known for promoting their youth like us at all. They should be embarrassed for losing Salah and De Bruyne because of the levels they have reached but Chelsea seem to get on which they will do for Mount as well.
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Bayern definitely cried over Kroos leaving, it was hilarious.
 
Champ said:
Because he's a player valued at circa £80m!

It's all fecking relative, we have got him for £55m, that's a fair whack off the general consensus of his valuation,
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Ofcourse Chelsea would value him at that, but I would struggle to think of any club willing to sign him for such a price.

We can also value Maguire at 50 million, doesnt mean anyone will be interested for such a number.
 
Champ said:
Because he's a player valued at circa £80m!

It's all fecking relative, we have got him for £55m, that's a fair whack off the general consensus of his valuation,
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Not with 1 year left on the contract he isn't
 
TheLord said:
55+5m in fees and his wages have been bumped from 80,000 pw to 250,000 pw, potentially rising to 300,000 pw with bonuses.

That's approximately 125m over a five year period on a proven English player with a reasonable resale value. Good business by both sides, I reckon.
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What does that even mean? Why do people care about resale value? Shall we cash in on him in two seasons or something?

There's two reasons we'd ever consider selling Mount.
1. Madrid or someone make a world record offer because he's been the best player in the world for a period of more than 2 seasons, in which case we don't want to sell.
2. He's so fecking shit that he ends up warming the bench for a full season, in which case we can't sell.

When a player is paid £250k+ a week his resale value is negative. You think someone like West Ham will take those wages on if he's shite?
 
JustinC00 said:
scousers about to spend 60m on Dominik Szoboszlai but people whining about 55m for Mount.
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People have PTSD when it comes to those lot, they seem to think every player they buy is a sure thing. I still remember the commotion around Minamino when he joined them, even the press jumped in to give us shit because we couldn't identify world class talent at £7.5m but they could apparently.
 
Gets a full pre season right? I can't wait to see him play in this team tbh
 
Champ said:
Because he's a player valued at circa £80m!

It's all fecking relative, we have got him for £55m, that's a fair whack off the general consensus of his valuation,
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Player valued by Chelsea at 80m. It's not like there's a bidding war out there. Chelsea also valued Fofana and Mydrik around that figure that doesn't mean that its general consensuses he's worth that much. On top of that in 5 months time he could discuss personal terms to go for free after this season.

The issue I have mostly is that we are filling a position that we don't need - he seems to tick the same boxes Bruno ticks and shares the same deficiencies as he has.

Our glaring holes are GK, ST, CM(playmaker) and then backup CB, B2B and RB.

So far we're addressing the AM...
 
afrocentricity said:
Gets a full pre season right? I can't wait to see him play in this team tbh
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It looks like him + possibly Onana will get a full pre season. Hopefully we can get a striker for a big part of the pre-season too.
 
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