Mason Mount | Confirmed

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OrcaFat said:
But isn’t it more about bringing in the best player we can for the money? It’s only really bad business if we pay more for Mount than we’d need to pay for another player as good or better.

If we walk away from the Mount deal at £55m, who are we going to get for that money? If there’s plenty of better options that’s great. If not, why do we care if Mount has a year or five years to run? It’s the same player.
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Sign Rabiot on a free, Guler for £17 million, Mainoo, Eriksen or Amad as alternative options, that is more than enough until next summer when we can sign him for free. In the meanwhile that money can be spend strengthening another position whilst our budget is limited.
 
To the people saying that we will be overpaying for a guy with a year left on his contract and should just get him next season. What if we don't get CL football this year because we don't buy another CM? Do we just ignore that position? Do we spend that money on another CM and then add Mount next summer on extortionate wages because he is a free agent. Then you have the issue of a player on lets say a 5 year contract that might be earning £450k/week who is impossible to sell if we wanted to move him on.
 
mctrials23 said:
To the people saying that we will be overpaying for a guy with a year left on his contract and should just get him next season. What if we don't get CL football this year because we don't buy another CM? Do we just ignore that position? Do we spend that money on another CM and then add Mount next summer on extortionate wages because he is a free agent. Then you have the issue of a player on lets say a 5 year contract that might be earning £450k/week who is impossible to sell if we wanted to move him on.
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We can buy a CM that is more of a 6/8 to replace Fred and McTominay, that way we have cover for Casemiro, a huge need for this window. We dropped points last year from not having quality cover for Casemiro so that should be a more urgent need than overpaying for a no.10/right forward.
 
mctrials23 said:
To the people saying that we will be overpaying for a guy with a year left on his contract and should just get him next season. What if we don't get CL football this year because we don't buy another CM? Do we just ignore that position? Do we spend that money on another CM and then add Mount next summer on extortionate wages because he is a free agent. Then you have the issue of a player on lets say a 5 year contract that might be earning £450k/week who is impossible to sell if we wanted to move him on.
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Be sensible, Mount is never going to command those types of wages. And if he does, you simply don't move for him.
 
CM10 said:
Assuming this isn't total made up bollocks, this would be interesting as I don't think Mount and Caicedo are at all like for like.
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agreed , but casimiro and de jong are lightyears apart and yet casimiro was the fdj alternative for some reason.
 
CM10 said:
Assuming this isn't total made up bollocks, this would be interesting as I don't think Mount and Caicedo are at all like for like.
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United know that Caicedo is a Chelsea target. The move will happen
 
luke511 said:
Sign Rabiot on a free, Guler for £17 million, Mainoo, Eriksen or Amad as alternative options, that is more than enough until next summer when we can sign him for free. In the meanwhile that money can be spend strengthening another position whilst our budget is limited.
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Yeah there may very well be better ways to spend the money but that decision has nothing to do with his contract because we can’t bank on getting him for free next year.

He doesn’t want to sit about, surely. He may go somewhere else or choose to sign a contract.

It has to be a straight decision about how to spend the money now. Then it’s simply down to how much we rate Mount versus the other gettable options for the same money. I’m not saying we should sign him, I’m just saying his contract is a red herring.
 
ChaddyP said:
agreed , but casimiro and de jong are lightyears apart and yet casimiro was the fdj alternative for some reason.
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Fair point. It's an interesting insight into our recruitment if we really are that flexible with player profiles.
 
OrcaFat said:
Yeah there may very well be better ways to spend the money but that decision has nothing to do with his contract because we can’t bank on getting him for free next year.

He doesn’t want to sit about, surely. He may go somewhere else or choose to sign a contract.

It has to be a straight decision about how to spend the money now. Then it’s simply down to how much we rate Mount versus the other gettable options for the same money. I’m not saying we should sign him, I’m just saying his contract is a red herring.
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It's a gamble with an upside of £55-60 million, well worth taking. His team have apparently briefed the club that he isn't signing a new contract so the ball seems to be in our court, they've rejected two generous offers relatively speaking, so now we should just wait it out to avoid us looking weak in negotiations.
 
ChaddyP said:
agreed , but casimiro and de jong are lightyears apart and yet casimiro was the fdj alternative for some reason.
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Initially, I believe ten Hag wanted to go with his Ajax template in 18/19, with a a double pivot 6 and a number 10.

However, once he knew he couldn't get De Jong, he moved more towards the system he playing during the 20/21 season, with a more of a ball winning number 6 in Alvarez, with two 8's ahead of him.

I believe, ten Hag now wants Bruno and another attacking number 8 playing above Casemiro, as we've seen when Eriksen plays.
 
luke511 said:
It's a gamble with an upside of £55-60 million, well worth taking. His team have apparently briefed the club that he isn't signing a new contract so the ball seems to be in our court, they've rejected two generous offers relatively speaking, so now we should just wait it out to avoid us looking weak in negotiations.
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If we don’t buy him now we aren’t getting him. We’ll go down a different route. EtH could be sacked by Xmas (God help us), he’s not going to wait around.
 
luke511 said:
We can buy a CM that is more of a 6/8 to replace Fred and McTominay, that way we have cover for Casemiro, a huge need for this window. We dropped points last year from not having quality cover for Casemiro so that should be a more urgent need than overpaying for a no.10/right forward.
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This point probably deserves a new thread, but it’s without any doubt the case that we dropped points not because we conceded too many goals, but because we scored too few goals.

We conceded 43 goals (PL) which includes the 7-0 and 6-3 thrashings, which is the same number of goals Arsenal conceded and 10 more goals City conceded, but where the wheels fell of the bus was in attack: we scored only 58 goals, which compares poorly to Arsenal at 88 and City at 94.

Some say we need a striker above all else, others say an 8 to help Bruno create the good chances we arguably did a poor job of. Others say to improve our attack we really need a modern keeper, which is insane but the hysteria over De Gea is what it is, but whatever the right answer is we definitely need a 9 and/or 8 more than we need a backup 6. But if we can do them all (which is not likely) let’s go for it. But we did not drop points because of a lack of cover for Casemiro. We dropped points because our front line — Martial, Antony and Sancho — badly underperformed reasonably modest expectations, and I would add that Eriksen degraded as the season wore on.
 
CM10 said:
Assuming this isn't total made up bollocks, this would be interesting as I don't think Mount and Caicedo are at all like for like.
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Agreed but…

Caicedo is a more naturally talented player - he could play at 8 alongside Casemiro. Mount could as well and could cover Bruno whilst Caicedo could cover Casemiro, which is probably more needed. He also played at right back on occasion for Brighton and was brilliant in that role.

Also Casemiro is getting on for a player in his position and it would be good to (a) have someone to rotate with him, cover for any injuries and his many suspensions and (b) prepare for his replacement before he declines.
 
lex talionis said:
This point probably deserves a new thread, but it’s without any doubt the case that we dropped points not because we conceded too many goals, but because we scored too few goals.

We conceded 43 goals (PL) which includes the 7-0 and 6-3 thrashings, which is the same number of goals Arsenal conceded and 10 more goals City conceded, but where the wheels fell of the bus was in attack: we scored only 58 goals, which compares poorly to Arsenal at 88 and City at 94.

Some say we need a striker above all else, others say an 8 to help Bruno create the good chances we arguably did a poor job of. Others say to improve our attack we really need a modern keeper, which is insane but the hysteria over De Gea is what it is, but whatever the right answer is we definitely need a 9 and/or 8 more than we need a backup 6. But if we can do them all (which is not likely) let’s go for it. But we did not drop points because of a lack of cover for Casemiro. We dropped points because our front line — Martial, Antony and Sancho — badly underperformed reasonably modest expectations, and I would add that Eriksen degraded as the season wore on.
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This is a thread for it I think, about Casemiro cover being our important signing this summer. I’d say a no 9 (or 3) is without doubt our greatest need but a 6 to cover Casemiro short term and replace long term is also an urgent need, more so than a no.10/right forward.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Agreed but…

Caicedo is a more naturally talented player - he could play at 8 alongside Casemiro. Mount could as well and could cover Bruno whilst Caicedo could cover Casemiro, which is probably more needed. He also played at right back on occasion for Brighton and was brilliant in that role.

Also Casemiro is getting on for a player in his position and it would be good to (a) have someone to rotate with him, cover for any injuries and his many suspensions and (b) prepare for his replacement before he declines.
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Agreed on Caicedo. He has the credentials to play for United and I think that deal would make a lot more sense than Mount in terms of how he would fit into the team. He'd obviously be pricier too but I'd sooner take that punt that have to part ways with £60-65m for Mount, who I don't really think fits at all.
 
CM10 said:
Agreed on Caicedo. He has the credentials to play for United and I think that deal would make a lot more sense than Mount in terms of how he would fit into the team. He'd obviously be pricier too but I'd sooner take that punt that have to part ways with £60-65m for Mount, who I don't really think fits at all.
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Playing two defensive midfielders would make a lot more sense than playing two attack-oriented midfielders for a team who wants to win the league and compete with the best?
 
zaafi said:
Playing two defensive midfielders would make a lot more sense than playing two attack-oriented midfielders for a team who wants to win the league and compete with the best?
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Casemiro and Caicedo can attack too, and we can still play with 2 or 3 playmakers with them in midfield.
 
Nice tactically approach. I’m sure everyone in the deal is aware Chelsea cannot move for Caciedo without selling Mount.

The full value of the deal will go on the books unlike who they have sold already.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
I’d rather Caicedo

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If we’re clever then we should go in for Caicedo now whilst Arsenal and City are fighting over Rice and Chelsea are hamstrung financially so we have a clear run at Caicedo then if we manage to move on McFred and VDB we can finalise Rabiot and go back in for Mount at the end of the transfer window.
 
zaafi said:
Playing two defensive midfielders would make a lot more sense than playing two attack-oriented midfielders for a team who wants to win the league and compete with the best?
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I wouldn't really consider Caicedo a pure defensive midfielder, more of a defensive box to box. I think the characteristics he has as a player in terms of press resistance, ball progression and pass completion make him far more appealing to us than Mount would be.

We've made strides under ten Hag but we're still a team that is fundamentally lacking compared to the likes of City. We regularly lost midfield battles last season because we lacked physicality and aggression. Caicedo brings that in spades, Mount not so much. Those midfield battles we lost include conceding in volume to teams like Brentford, City, Liverpool and Sevilla. We were played off the park by Brighton multiple times as well. I think we'd be far more robust and Caicedo would supplement the players we already have a lot better than Mount, who I feel will largely occupies the same zones as Fernandes and/or Eriksen.
 
davidmichael said:
If we’re clever then we should go in for Caicedo now whilst Arsenal and City are fighting over Rice and Chelsea are hamstrung financially so we have a clear run at Caicedo then if we manage to move on McFred and VDB we can finalise Rabiot and go back in for Mount at the end of the transfer window.
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If only we was that good at business.
 
davidmichael said:
If we’re clever then we should go in for Caicedo now whilst Arsenal and City are fighting over Rice and Chelsea are hamstrung financially so we have a clear run at Caicedo then if we manage to move on McFred and VDB we can finalise Rabiot and go back in for Mount at the end of the transfer window.
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Yes, but I imagine we’re just feigning interest in Caicedo to try and land Mount
 
A positive about signing Mount would be the ability to have Bruno playing deeper alongside Casemiro in some games. Some of the games at the end of the season, Bruno was brilliant in a deeper position dictating the game.
 
mctrials23 said:
To the people saying that we will be overpaying for a guy with a year left on his contract and should just get him next season. What if we don't get CL football this year because we don't buy another CM? Do we just ignore that position? Do we spend that money on another CM and then add Mount next summer on extortionate wages because he is a free agent. Then you have the issue of a player on lets say a 5 year contract that might be earning £450k/week who is impossible to sell if we wanted to move him on.
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You realize that we can buy another CM even if it’s not Mount right?
 
Chief123 said:
A positive about signing Mount would be the ability to have Bruno playing deeper alongside Casemiro in some games. Some of the games at the end of the season, Bruno was brilliant in a deeper position dictating the game.
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Except that kills the entire point of having a carrier. Bruno is terrible at dribbling, him next to Case is just asking to get pressed into oblivion.
 
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