Mason Mount | Confirmed

[bosnian_red]

Exactly my point remove Fred for Mount and you’re more likely to struggle defensively in midfield.

Guess you're missing my point - mount does a good job at getting across the pitch, has loads of energy, presses very effectively. He can replace Fred's output in that perspective without us losing much, and it still being very good on the whole.

"More likely to struggle", sure, but still highly unlikely to struggle because of any work rate or defensive balance issues in midfield. Injuries of course change things, but Mount/Bruno/Casemiro is perfectly fine in balance. Defensive issues would be down to attackers not doing their bit defensively or individual mistakes or systemic issues, not down to the midfield not having defensive balance.

 

[Fabio Rochemback]

If we get Rabiot for free and Mount for 50 odd million, would that be good business for getting those two in for a combined price of 50 odd million?

Well yeah OK but Rabiot is free regardless. That £50m could be spent elsewhere.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'm not saying Klopp's first season at Liverpool was better than our current season. That Liverpool team didn't have the personnel to play a pressing style but still put more emphasis on pressing. For Klopp that is an absolute priority but for EtH that's not the case.

It's a different squad building method as all. Ten Hag with our fecked up schedule chose the method of that ground out results for us to achieve our targets while picking moments to implement the counter pressing methods (notably, the Barcelona tie). Klopp took over Liverpool with no immediate pressure to get European football. That pressure exists for United. He also took over a team that had players for a pressing style moreso than United. So it was easier to implement, even if he wasn't instantly successful with it. A mix of our fixture list, the squad we have, and different expectations/pressures/targets just leads to different squad building. But I very much expect us to go more towards a Klopp style side than a Pep.

 

[luke511]

Guess you're missing my point - mount does a good job at getting across the pitch, has loads of energy, presses very effectively. He can replace Fred's output in that perspective without us losing much, and it still being very good on the whole.

"More likely to struggle", sure, but still highly unlikely to struggle because of any work rate or defensive balance issues in midfield. Injuries of course change things, but Mount/Bruno/Casemiro is perfectly fine in balance. Defensive issues would be down to attackers not doing their bit defensively or individual mistakes or systemic issues, not down to the midfield not having defensive balance.

This is it though, attackers not doing their bit, mistakes and sloppiness will still be present next season going off our current squad. That’s why our 8 needs to be an expert at winning back possession against players that are really hard to tackle, I don’t think Mount is but you do, that’s where we’ll agree to disagree.

 

[davidmichael]

If we manage to move McTominay anywhere and Fred to Fulham then bring in Rice and Mount I’ll be ecstatic, Mount on his own doesn’t do as much for me even if I think he’s an upgrade on our midfielders bar Fernandes and Casemiro.

 

[bosnian_red]

This is it though, attackers not doing their bit, mistakes and sloppiness will still be present next season going off our current squad. That’s why our 8 needs to be an expert at winning back possession against players that are really hard to tackle, I don’t think Mount is but you do, that’s where we’ll agree to disagree.

Attackers not doing their bit shouldn't be a thing next season. We should be signing a CF who does their bit at which point the balance is fine with him and Antony, and Rashford being the counter threat.

Casemiro, Licha and Varane are pretty much the best trio in the world at winning duels, balancing them with a proper pressing structure and a midfield who can press effectively just makes sense to do and leaves us with room to put more attacking threat in. Ten Hag clearly feels the same - and it makes sense. Someone like Rice or Caicedo next to Casemiro is not a Ten Hag thing to do at all, he's never gone that negative and I don't see him ever trying to do that here.

 

[luke511]

Attackers not doing their bit shouldn't be a thing next season. We should be signing a CF who does their bit at which point the balance is fine with him and Antony, and Rashford being the counter threat.

Casemiro, Licha and Varane are pretty much the best trio in the world at winning duels, balancing them with a proper pressing structure and a midfield who can press effectively just makes sense to do and leaves us with room to put more attacking threat in. Ten Hag clearly feels the same - and it makes sense. Someone like Rice or Caicedo next to Casemiro is not a Ten Hag thing to do at all, he's never gone that negative and I don't see him ever trying to do that here.

I’m terrified to see how things will look if Casemiro’s suspended and Varane/Martinez are injured, like what happened this season. Having Rice or Caicedo next to Casemiro with Bruno as a 10 isn’t really negative at all, all 3 of those deep midfielders are all rounded to the point they could play as an 8 comfortably. It would be a fitting system against teams that are more likely to have higher possession than us, Ten Hag should be open to versatility if he wants to avoid getting spanked 7-0 by Liverpool again.

 

[Sylar]

There's a few ways to look at it, if we get mount for 50ish million and sell mctominay for 30m, imo we've improved for 20m - now it's upto you to decide how much of an improvement that is

Also the 50m+, that value is basically for an extra year service if that's agreed given he's a free next season. You pay that if you think there's a chance another team gets him for a free next season or mount decides to sign an extension.
Is he a rvp type figure that you pay for the final year of his contract?

Honestly I'd like him in our squad but for me paying close to 100m for kane in his final year makes more sense than paying 50m for mount in his final year.
One makes us title challengers and fills a massive hole whilst the other improves us and gives us better depth

 

[Levi1]

What about Milinkovic Savic?

 

[sincher]

There's a few ways to look at it, if we get mount for 50ish million and sell mctominay for 30m, imo we've improved for 20m - now it's upto you to decide how much of an improvement that is

Also the 50m+, that value is basically for an extra year service if that's agreed given he's a free next season. You pay that if you think there's a chance another team gets him for a free next season or mount decides to sign an extension.
Is he a rvp type figure that you pay for the final year of his contract?

Honestly I'd like him in our squad but for me paying close to 100m for kane in his final year makes more sense than paying 50m for mount in his final year.
One makes us title challengers and fills a massive hole whilst the other improves us and gives us better depth

To me, Mount would be more like an upgrade on Van de Beek, who has been let's face it a complete waste of money.

McTominay is a good squad player in my eyes, not in a rush to sell him and kinda feel like £30m is a good deal for the buying club.

 

[bosnian_red]

I’m terrified to see how things will look if Casemiro’s suspended and Varane/Martinez are injured, like what happened this season. Having Rice or Caicedo next to Casemiro with Bruno as a 10 isn’t really negative at all, all 3 of those deep midfielders are all rounded to the point they could play as an 8 comfortably. It would be a fitting system against teams that are more likely to have higher possession than us, Ten Hag should be open to versatility if he wants to avoid getting spanked 7-0 by Liverpool again.

Well you squad build accordingly. That's why selling Fred and McTominay and replacing with Mount and someone who can be a 6 should be on the list. We shouldn't overly rely on anyone. Eriksen can cover mount/Bruno effectively, but yes we need a 6 who can cover Casemiro. I don't think the right way to go about it would be to get a big signing like Rice or Caicedo there, it leads to a much more negative side than what Ten Hag wants. He only has space for 1 #6 and two 8's in front - so the bench should have a pairing who can play as a 6 if Casemiro is out.

Varane/Martinez both have solid cover TBF. Shaw and Lindelof is quite a good pairing for Ten Hags style. Malacia goes to left back, Alvaro Fernandez becomes backup, dalot/Wan Bissaka right back. You can only prepare for so much and a long term injury will always feck you over a bit.

Avoiding being spanked by big teams away starts with a goalkeeper and a striker far more than it has anything to do with what we had in midfield last season. Our midfield issues merely led to inconsistency but didn't cause full collapses. That was de Gea having shockers, and systemically being incapable of playing out from the back against a press or being unable to go long to bypass the press.

 

[sullydnl]

We don't get worse but its a marginal improvement on the whole.

Eriksen is a snail off the ball but in deeper areas of the pitch he uses the ball better than Mount. Better passer and has better range too.

What Mount adds defensively and through pressing isn't that much of an upgrade because Mount's best work is still done higher up the pitch.

We will have a lot of the same weaknesses defensively with Mount in place of Eriksen. Mount isn't strong enough to be winning duels in the heart of midfield but he's excellent at closing gaps and forcing turnovers in the attacking third.

The argument being made is that with Mount we'll be playing as we already have at times (especially in the latter half of this season), with our #8 pushed high alongside Bruno as part of the 5 or 6 in de facto 3-2-5/3-1-6 shapes with a fullback tucking in.

And as that implies, the #8 would therefore be doing much (though obviously not all) of their work in exactly those advanced positions you mention Mount being good in.

If we want that advanced #8 we are by definition not looking for them to be at their best in deeper positions.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Aka we’re not paying 65M - Think they’ll settle at £50M + 5M in add ons

 

[doomy20]

Walk. away.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Walk. away.

I’m so sick of this fecking phrase already.

 

[Idxomer]

The argument being made is that with Mount we'll be playing as we already have at times (especially in the latter half of this season), with our #8 pushed high alongside Bruno as part of the 5 or 6 in de facto 3-2-5/3-1-6 shapes with a fullback tucking in.

And as that implies, the #8 would therefore be doing much (though obviously not all) of their work in exactly those advanced positions you mention Mount being good in.

If we want that advanced #8 we are by definition not looking for them to be at their best in deeper positions.

Eriksen did a lot of his work from deep. The problem with him is that he couldn't cope physically, especially in the 2nd half of games and after his injury. Positionally, he was good and didn't really push as high as Bruno, their heatmaps were quite different too.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I’m so sick of this fecking phrase already.

Maybe you should start a thread about how Utd will not walk away?

 

[bosnian_red]

The argument being made is that with Mount we'll be playing as we already have at times (especially in the latter half of this season), with our #8 pushed high alongside Bruno as part of the 5 or 6 in de facto 3-2-5/3-1-6 shapes with a fullback tucking in.

And as that implies, the #8 would therefore be doing much (though obviously not all) of their work in exactly those advanced positions you mention Mount being good in.

If we want that advanced #8 we are by definition not looking for them to be at their best in deeper positions.

Yup. And it's pretty clear to me that a big problem for us was simply only playing in small spurts - having big drop offs when Eriksen tired after half, or flipping a coin and hoping we get good Fred. Mount in theory doesn't change a lot in terms of our top level last season, brings a lot more off the ball while giving similar to Eriksen on it on the whole so its an improvement, but importantly he brings a fitness and level that can provide our top level more frequently, and for full matches. Raises our floor to make us more consistent. Eriksen is very good depth too.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Walk. away.

This. A thousand times this.

Spend the money on Kane and bring in Rabiot for free.

 

[Skills]

I've got the Maguire and Antony feeling with this one unfortunately.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

This. A thousand times this.

Spend the money on Kane and bring in Rabiot for free.

Would you be happy if our midfield options next season are Eriksen, Fred, McTominay, Rabiot, Bruno and Casemiro?

 

[Kostov]

How can City get Kovacic for peanuts and we are being rejected at 50m for Mount? Tell them to feck off and offer him bigger wages to join next summer on a free.

 

[Brightonian]

Would you be happy if our midfield options next season are Eriksen, Fred, McTominay, Rabiot, Bruno and Casemiro?

I know you're asking a different poster, but to butt in:

Yes, if it means getting Kane, as they proposed.
In fact, yes if it means getting any #9 who scores 20 league goals or more next season.

 

[imamuppet]

Hopefully somone at Manchester United will politely tell Chelsea to go f themselves

 

[sullydnl]

Talking about 3-2-5/3-1-6 with a fullback tucked in, the below images kinda get the idea across.

Spoiler

Obviously there will be times when players rotate positions, times when the advanced players have to drop deeper from those advanced positions and times when they simply have to set deeper into midfield.

But these are the sort of shapes we're looking for the team to take up in possession. And when you see how high our #8s starting point is in some of those images, you get a sense of why that Mount-style #10/#8 hybrid is what we're looking for. People have called for Rice/Caicedo type players instead, but they wouldn't be playing in those advanced positions. They'd tend to be the 1 or 2 in the centre of that shape, whereas the player we're looking for would spend most (though not all) of their time ahead of that.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

I know you're asking a different poster, but to butt in:

Yes, if it means getting Kane, as they proposed.
In fact, yes if it means getting any #9 who scores 20 league goals or more next season.

That'd be crazy imo. The amount of times our midfield got walked through was criminal.

Kane isn't going to stop us from getting a 6-0 hiding away from home. Mount will go some way towards that but we'd also need another CM (Rice?)

 

[caid]

This is the same situation as Kane. Offer them a decent price to sell now, drop it by 10m after the season kicks off, dont budge.
Clubs will keep playing brinkmanship and overcharging us if we keep caving and frankly both are overpriced at our current offers, let alone the bullshit being quoted. Mount isn't worth double that of Kovacic.

 

[UnitedSofa]

This is the same situation as Kane. Offer them a decent price to sell now, drop it by 10m after the season kicks off, dont budge.
Clubs will keep playing brinkmanship and overcharging us if we keep caving and frankly both are overpriced at our current offers, let alone the bullshit being quoted. Mount isn't worth double that of Kovacic.

In what world does this even work.

 

[Orton]

Chelsea potentially getting Upto 120 million for Mount and Havertz. Ridiculous.

 

[Reiver]

As much as I'd like Mount, we're right not to overpay. Hopefully this is the start of us being a bit more shrewd in the transfer market.

 

[justboy68]

Seeing the Havertz deal then it suddenly makes sense why they are so bullish about asking for more. Everyone seems to give them whatever they want. Dreading what we'll end up paying here..

 

[caid]

In what world does this even work.

In a world where we stick to our guns. We frequently cave towards the end of a transfer window and pay stupid fee's - so clubs will delay and play brinkmanship to maximise the transfer fee. We have to shift how we do business. I expect both clubs would either sell before the start of the season or we'd sign the players in january on a pre contract fecking up their teams run in. If Chelsea want to lose 50m to have Mount till January, if Spurs want to throw 80m down the toilet then let them. Its not like theres other positions, other players that we cant upgrade.

 

[VP89]

This. A thousand times this.

Spend the money on Kane and bring in Rabiot for free.

Ten Hag wants Mount, so I say get Mount.

 

[DOTA]

Wouldn't go much higher.

 

[RedC]

How can City get Kovacic for peanuts and we are being rejected at 50m for Mount? Tell them to feck off and offer him bigger wages to join next summer on a free.

Clubs know we are idiots in the market.

 

[Von Mistelroum]

What about Milinkovic Savic?

He's not real. He's one of those urban myths I think.

 

[El Jefe]

Talking about 3-2-5/3-6-1 with a fullback tucked in, the below images kinda get the idea across.

Spoiler

Obviously there will be times when players rotate positions, times when the advanced players have to drop deeper from those advanced positions and times when they simply have to set deeper into midfield.

But these are the sort of shapes we're looking for the team to take up in possession. And when you see how high our #8s starting point is in some of those images, you get a sense of why that Mount-style #10/#8 hybrid is what we're looking for. People have called for Rice/Caicedo type players instead, but they wouldn't be playing in those advanced positions. They'd tend to be the 1 or 2 in the centre of that shape, whereas the player we're looking for would spend most (though not all) of their time ahead of that.

But this is a flawed system especially with the personnel we currently have. Mount for Eriksen in the system is an improvement but not one of any real magnitude.

It's not like we're a team that just won the league with our system. We finished 3rd in the league conceding 43 goals along the way despite having 17 clean sheets. It isn't a coincidence that we've struggled in away games vs the top half when you see such a graphic. Mount in place of Eriksen will still lead to largely the same problems.

Casemiro doesn't have the legs he used to, he's great at closing spaces in compact areas but in an ocean of space we see him diving in for missed slide tackles which then turn it into a 3v3.

Like I said in a previous post, this should be for teams who are very good in possesion or teams that close open spaces extremely quickly. We don't excel in either of these areas.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Ten Hag wants Mount, so I say get Mount.

Ten Hag also wants Kane. I say get Kane.

What if the choice was the following (as it actually may well be)…

1. Kane and Rabiot

2. Mount and Hoijlund

Which would you prefer, given the current squad?

 

[mikeyt]

Please leave this alone! We have other more pressing needs and this is silly money already!

 

[NinjaZombie]

How can City get Kovacic for peanuts and we are being rejected at 50m for Mount? Tell them to feck off and offer him bigger wages to join next summer on a free.

The conspiracy theorist in me tells me that City pay other club owners in different ways.