Mason Mount | Confirmed

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roonster09 said:
Interesting 2 Chelsea fans with completely different takes @TheMagicFoolBus .

@WeePat you are spot on, Mount really divides opinion.
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I think it's entirely fair to say that Chelsea haven't been built to best utilise Mount - in an ideal world where we don't have to play 3 CBs because we don't have a defensive midfielder, he's 100% best used as an 8 who can press high at times (assuming a 4-4-2 off the ball shape) and can alternatively drop deeper to receive and progress the ball.

Tuchel played 3-4-2-1 to minimise the limitations of the Chelsea squad - and for me it speaks volumes of Mount that he was able to adapt tactically and almost immediately become more or less the most important player in the side.
 
ThanksBoss26 said:
Can see that being the case with Martial next season to be honest.
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Martial's contract is expiring in 2024 so I also feel the best we can get is a loan with an obligation to buy for a cheap price if he plays a certain amount of games. Or just another loan and him leaving on a free next summer.
 
Orc said:
As a Chelsea fan who has watched every game he’s played closely I’m reading this thread and thinking a lot of you United fans have the wrong idea of how he is most effectively utilized. He is not a CM at all really and didn’t ever really play there for us other than in emergency situations. He is an advanced midfielder who plays almost exclusively in the classic #10 area of the pitch. He’s not a #8. He‘s someone who often initiated our pressing game under Lamps and Tuchel. That’s how high up the pitch he was.

So with all that in mind I really don’t see how you play Mount and Bruno together since they occupy similar areas. Moving Mount deeper into a midfield 2 with Casemiro is a really bad idea, imo, and you’ll get overrun in there against top teams.

For me it made WAY more sense when Mase was linked with Klopp and Liverpool. Think he would’ve fit their aggressive pressing, high tempo attacking better.
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This is what people against this transfer has been crying about in this thread. The only rebuttal everyone seems to have is that EtH somehow can transform him.
 
redIndianDevil said:
This is what people against this transfer has been crying about in this thread. The only rebuttal everyone seems to have is that EtH somehow can transform him.
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Or that Bruno can be placed on the right or in a deeper position where he's done ok in parts for this season and Mount will play the 10 role. If Rabiot is coming here on a free i can imagine that in the big games Casemiro will be partnered with him in what would be a physically strong midfield.
 
Irwin99 said:
Or that Bruno can be placed on the right or in a deeper position where he's done ok in parts for this season and Mount will play the 10 role. If Rabiot is coming here on a free i can imagine that in the big games Casemiro will be partnered with him in what would be a physically strong midfield.
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Agreed.
 
TheMagicFoolBus said:
I think it's entirely fair to say that Chelsea haven't been built to best utilise Mount - in an ideal world where we don't have to play 3 CBs because we don't have a defensive midfielder, he's 100% best used as an 8 who can press high at times (assuming a 4-4-2 off the ball shape) and can alternatively drop deeper to receive and progress the ball.

Tuchel played 3-4-2-1 to minimise the limitations of the Chelsea squad - and for me it speaks volumes of Mount that he was able to adapt tactically and almost immediately become more or less the most important player in the side.
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Totally agree. I think the back 3 serves some players really well (Silva, Jorginho, the wingbacks etc) but it really hampered a few others (Ziyech mostly but also Mount and Havertz). There was never a natural fit for them in that system and it is definitely to Mount’s credit that he still ended being the best performing player in the team for 2 years.
 
kaku06 said:
You are so innocent. This brutal world of transfers is not for you.
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:lol: when I say "maximum" I mean maximum that United are ready to pay, not how much Chelsea want. Unfortunately I've endured too many transfer windows.
 
redIndianDevil said:
This is what people against this transfer has been crying about in this thread. The only rebuttal everyone seems to have is that EtH somehow can transform him.
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There are precedents: Modric played higher up the pitch- as a 10 or wide, then got converted to regular CM and became one of the best in Europe; Eriksen himself has largely played as 10 throughout his career but, a certain lack of physicality/acceleration aside against more intense or higher-level sides, has done generally quite well this season as 6/deeper 8.

Like many others I'm also slightly sceptical of how well this will play out - not sure how well Mount can adjust to dictating play or playing 'pass before the pass', and covering off the ball defensively as opposed to pressing and crossfield balls and off-the-ball attacking runs, and would rather buy in one of the numerous no/. 8s from French/German/Portuguese leagues who might suit our style better and would cost less, but presume ETH has a decent idea about how this might work....
 
I cba to read this thread properly, but a possibility that I don't think has been discussed much: everyone seems to think ETH's plan is to either convert Mount into a CM, a move Bruno to CM or RW permanently. But surely a more likely scenario is that ETH intends for Mount to play as a false 9. ETH likes a false 9, and we are lacking upfront...
 
Trequarista10 said:
I cba to read this thread properly, but a possibility that I don't think has been discussed much: everyone seems to think ETH's plan is to either convert Mount into a CM, a move Bruno to CM or RW permanently. But surely a more likely scenario is that ETH intends for Mount to play as a false 9. ETH likes a false 9, and we are lacking upfront...
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Not sure I’d call that a “more likely scenario”. No chance ETH is signing him primarily as a false 9, that would be insanely risky. Maybe he would try it when we’re seriously struck with injuries or as a one-off tactical plan, but no way that is what ETH is signing him for.
 
Many “we need” “i think we need” type i know better posts in this thread that somehow think they are more equipped to know the kind of football players our team needs over the manager and recruitment team, it’s very weird. If they want Mount then it’s obviously for a reason and you’ll just have to live with that and support him and the manager when he comes.

It seems pretty obvious at this point ETH wants a 6 and two mobile 8’s and Mount will be one of those mobile 8’s, can’t say i’m complaining, i don’t think he’s building us to be a purely possession based team
 
What am I missing here ? 80k a week at Chelsea and we have offered him 200k a week ? What has he a twin brother who is coming with him ?
If this is true, nothing has changed behind the scenes at United. Might aswell have Woodward back throwing what ever money we have left at other clubs.
 
L1nk said:
Many “we need” “i think we need” type i know better posts in this thread that somehow think they are more equipped to know the kind of football players our team needs over the manager and recruitment team, it’s very weird. If they want Mount then it’s obviously for a reason and you’ll just have to live with that and support him and the manager when he comes.

It seems pretty obvious at this point ETH wants a 6 and two mobile 8’s and Mount will be one of those mobile 8’s, can’t say i’m complaining, i don’t think he’s building us to be a purely possession based team
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Because if the last 10 years have taught us anything, it's that a professional football manager and recruitment team can't make a mistake, or make sub-optimal decisions.
 
glasgow 21 said:
What am I missing here ? 80k a week at Chelsea and we have offered him 200k a week ? What has he a twin brother who is coming with him ?
If this is true, nothing has changed behind the scenes at United. Might aswell have Woodward back throwing what ever money we have left at other clubs.
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Keep up to date. Chelsea are losing him because he’s on 80k a week.
 
Roboc7 said:
Potentially a very good player but has stagnated and I suspect won’t be cheap despite contract situation. Ultimately if not bringing in someone like Caceido/Rice/Ugarte as well then he won’t make much difference.
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He had one bad season as did the whole Chelsea team due to the shambolic management. Bit harsh calling that stagnation.
 
MadMike said:
He had one bad season as did the whole Chelsea team due to the shambolic management. Bit harsh calling that stagnation.
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He’s been very poor for us for about 18 months, so his struggles started before the Boehly bonanza these last few months.

It’s true that he hasn’t stagnated, though. I think he has just been run into the ground playing SO much football for club and country over the past 5 years. And then this last season he was constantly injured. The mileage finally caught up to his body.

I suspect he’ll be back to his normal level with a summer free of international football.
 
Orc said:
He’s been very poor for us for about 18 months, so his struggles started before the Boehly bonanza these last few months.

It’s true that he hasn’t stagnated, though. I think he has just been run into the ground playing SO much football for club and country over the past 5 years. And then this last season he was constantly injured. The mileage finally caught up to his body.

I suspect he’ll be back to his normal level with a summer free of international football.
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So he was shit with the rest of your team when Roman was forced out and sanctions hit?
 
I think I might prefer taking a risk on Gabri Veiga instead of going for Mount for the #8 position, although Celta Vigo avoided relegation so he wouldn't be as cheap.
 
Sandikan said:
Why would a mouthpiece of United put out that sort of info?
Why would United want to let anyone know what they're doing in that manner?
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Ducker is a mouthpiece of the club, but the author of that article is actually Burt not Ducker.
 
cyberman said:
So he was shit with the rest of your team when Roman was forced out and sanctions hit?
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Yeah, his level really started to drop even the season before this one.

I think statistically ourselves and Liverpool played the most games of any English teams over the last couple of years. And like a lot of the Liverpool team this season, Mount finally started showing the wear and tear of being a first name on the team sheet guy. He played an absurd number of games between the PL, deep UCL runs, Club World Cup, Euro’s, and World Cup.
 
Orc said:
Yeah, his level really started to drop even the season before this one.

I think statistically ourselves and Liverpool played the most games of any English teams over the last couple of years. And like a lot of the Liverpool team this season, Mount finally started showing the wear and tear of being a first name on the team sheet guy. He played an absurd number of games between the PL, deep UCL runs, Club World Cup, Euro’s, and World Cup.
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I remember comparing his number of games from like 3 seasons ago to now with a number of his peers and it was actually pretty staggering just how much football Mount has played over those seasons - I think it was 55 games more than Odegaard, around 30-40 games more than Saka and Foden etc.
 
redIndianDevil said:
This is what people against this transfer has been crying about in this thread. The only rebuttal everyone seems to have is that EtH somehow can transform him.
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Wouldn't another explanation be that Ten Hag wants to play with two #10's, the same way Guardiola played with De Bruyne and Silva in his first few seasons? Mount would make a lot of sense in this case, as he's a lot more hard-working and positionally disciplined than the average #10.
 
50m with one year on his contract seems a lot to me, but at 24 he should be coming into his peak years, knows what it takes to win things.

if he succeeds then the fee doesn't really matter in the longer term
 
WeePat said:
I remember comparing his number of games from like 3 seasons ago to now with a number of his peers and it was actually pretty staggering just how much football Mount has played over those seasons - I think it was 55 games more than Odegaard, around 30-40 games more than Saka and Foden etc.
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Wow, that's some serious overclocking. Basically playing another season in that time frame.

I honestly don't know what to make of this transfer, hope this isn't going to be another 'with hindsight..red flag' kind of deal.
 
Irwin99 said:
Or that Bruno can be placed on the right or in a deeper position where he's done ok in parts for this season and Mount will play the 10 role. If Rabiot is coming here on a free i can imagine that in the big games Casemiro will be partnered with him in what would be a physically strong midfield.
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So weakening the right wing which has looked decent after signing Antony, a proper RW.?
 
Baxquux said:
There are precedents: Modric played higher up the pitch- as a 10 or wide, then got converted to regular CM and became one of the best in Europe; Eriksen himself has largely played as 10 throughout his career but, a certain lack of physicality/acceleration aside against more intense or higher-level sides, has done generally quite well this season as 6/deeper 8.

Like many others I'm also slightly sceptical of how well this will play out - not sure how well Mount can adjust to dictating play or playing 'pass before the pass', and covering off the ball defensively as opposed to pressing and crossfield balls and off-the-ball attacking runs, and would rather buy in one of the numerous no/. 8s from French/German/Portuguese leagues who might suit our style better and would cost less, but presume ETH has a decent idea about how this might work....
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Eriksen has been utter trash in the second part of the season. We basically play with 10 men against motivated opponents with Eriksen in the line up. Why sign another lightweight for such a crucial position?

Even your defence is that somehow EtH will make it work.
 
Mr Smith said:
Wouldn't another explanation be that Ten Hag wants to play with two #10's, the same way Guardiola played with De Bruyne and Silva in his first few seasons? Mount would make a lot of sense in this case, as he's a lot more hard-working and positionally disciplined than the average #10.
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Please do not compare our team to City’s. We can all point out to City’s blood money but Guardiola has incorporated total football at City. Every position is interchangeable, Stones a laughing stock a season ago has played so well in midfield. They don’t play with fullbacks. We are so far away from such formations. De Brune and Silva may be number 10s on paper but they don’t play like that on the pitch.
 
Dominos said:
Because if the last 10 years have taught us anything, it's that a professional football manager and recruitment team can't make a mistake, or make sub-optimal decisions.
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Of course they can, but that doesn’t mean we know more than then still
 
Silverman said:
I'm beginning to think he could be a very good signing.
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He's a good player, but the issue is he's not really what we need right now, and nobody's quite sure where best to use him!

But as a general strengthening the squad signing, he could be decent.
 
Oscar Bonavena said:
He's a good player, but the issue is he's not really what we need right now, and nobody's quite sure where best to use him!

But as a general strengthening the squad signing, he could be decent.
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Ten Hag wants him, so surely he must have an idea?
 
terraloo said:
It seems that you don’t quite get that when a player is in the last year of his contract and refuses to sign an extension then the club will do everything they can to move them on if the want a return on their asset.What I said there would be a threat of being made to train etc away from the first team squad and quite simply Mount at his age almost certainly couldn’t afford for that to happen.

Mount is 24 years of age.Since returning from Derby Mount has played in 4 season 53 in 19/20 , 54 in 20/21, 53 in 21/22 and 35 in 22/23 some 195 appearances scoring 33 of which 27 have been inthe league

Fred in the same four seasons has featured in 213 games scoring 14 of which 8 have been in the league. not really that much of a difference in terms of always been available but Fred had got what 2-3 years left playing at PL level Mount maybe 7-8 so yes Mount in my opinion has a higher ceiling

As for him not being good enough for a top 6 club ok I know football is all about opinions but doubt yours is shared by many
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Then why not pay him what he wants. You’ve been splashing the cash like a lottery winner on a coke binge yet you’re playing tight with one of your few home grown players.

And you’re also very short on midfielders.

We have loads of player on their last year of contract. No one at United is pushing Luke Shaw or Rashford out the door. We’re desperate to keep them at any cost.

And most United fans don’t think he’s good enough for a top 6 team and neither does the Chelsea hierarchy.
 
redIndianDevil said:
Please do not compare our team to City’s. We can all point out to City’s blood money but Guardiola has incorporated total football at City. Every position is interchangeable, Stones a laughing stock a season ago has played so well in midfield. They don’t play with fullbacks. We are so far away from such formations. De Brune and Silva may be number 10s on paper but they don’t play like that on the pitch.
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Guardiola implemented Silva and De Bruyne (traditionally #10's) as free 8's in his first season, and won the league by his second. It's not unreasonable to think we could implement a similar style with the right players. Ten Hag is a Guardiola disciple, having worked with him under Bayern. I'm not saying it's what I'd do, but I am actually increasingly convinced it's where Ten Hag is heading.

You've also massively simplified what City are; they're nothing like a total football team and their positions are actually quite specific. Stones is a great example; he's a #6 in possession, but a CB out of position, to give City a numerical advantage in midfield. It's similar with the full-backs. And that's not even something unique to City; the vast majority of teams have players playing different roles both in and out of possession.

Ten Hag has been limited by the players he has, but we know from his coaching history that he wants his teams to be high-pressing, possession focused, and attacking. Do you really think Ten Hag intends to play with a double-pivot for the rest of his time at United? I don't. And if he does want to implement the above style, then a hybrid #8/#10 who has a high workrate and is good off the ball is exactly what he would need. Which, curiously, correlates with many of Mount's best qualities. I have some reservations about the signing as well, but he makes a lot of sense in the context of the above style.
 
Mr Smith said:
Guardiola implemented Silva and De Bruyne (traditionally #10's) as free 8's in his first season, and won the league by his second. It's not unreasonable to think we could implement a similar style with the right players. Ten Hag is a Guardiola disciple, having worked with him under Bayern. I'm not saying it's what I'd do, but I am actually increasingly convinced it's where Ten Hag is heading.

You've also massively simplified what City are; they're nothing like a total football team and their positions are actually quite specific. Stones is a great example; he's a #6 in possession, but a CB out of position, to give City a numerical advantage in midfield. It's similar with the full-backs. And that's not even something unique to City; the vast majority of teams have players playing different roles both in and out of possession.

Ten Hag has been limited by the players he has, but we know from his coaching history that he wants his teams to be high-pressing, possession focused, and attacking. Do you really think Ten Hag intends to play with a double-pivot for the rest of his time at United? I don't. And if he does want to implement the above style, then a hybrid #8/#10 who has a high workrate and is good off the ball is exactly what he would need. Which, curiously, correlates with many of Mount's best qualities. I have some reservations about the signing as well, but he makes a lot of sense in the context of the above style.
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Exactly this. Mount may not be the star talent everyone wants, but he could be exactly the type of player ETH need to implement his system.

If we are to look for a CM/AM who could press very well high up and at the same time could offer alot in attack play, Mount might be the best available choice out there.
 
Mr Smith said:
You've also massively simplified what City are; they're nothing like a total football team and their positions are actually quite specific. Stones is a great example; he's a #6 in possession, but a CB out of position, to give City a numerical advantage in midfield. It's similar with the full-backs. And that's not even something unique to City; the vast majority of teams have players playing different roles both in and out of possession.
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I don't understand why his role is being treated as such a great tactical innovation. Ultimately you have an in possession shape and out of possession shape. In possession, Pep plays a 3-2 structure. The real innovation is how fluid that 3-2 is and how many different ways they can combine to make that happen to throw off static opposition pressing schemes.

But generally the 3 are: Walker - Dias - Akanji and the 2 are Rodri + Stones. They had guys like Cancelo, Zinchenko in inverted fullback positions there but now they're both gone so they had to find a solution and they did with Stones.

There are some side benefits to having extra defenders in preventing counter attacks etc but that's nuance, not a total paradigm shift.
 
I actually think we're trying to be something between Pep's City and Klopp's Liverpool. We press hard and quick like Liverpool but when we switch on the attack we go on the counter quick as our 1st option, if not we engage more in high possession patterned play. But our fullbacks are more inverted like Pep.

We can see it in our play this year we have a team that have elite players which excel on the counter, our best players are more high risk/high reward type. EtH wants at least 1 midfielder to be more press resistant and help the team to keep ticking in possession but can also be more direct when needed like De Jong but he's not available so he's opted to go for a more pressing midfielder like Mount. I actually think EtH realized he has to lean more toward what works for Bruno and Rashford because they are our best attacking player currently.

I think stylistically EtH knows what would work with this team now it's all about assembling the right players.
 
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