I said this, albeit in a harsh and angrier way. You're absolutely correct. Man's practically a kid. What do we want him to do with his life if we can't help him get on the mend?
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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Such a waste. Potential for top level.
There was a thread about what I would have liked to see, but it's now locked. Let me answer that here.
Honest communication, true signs of repentance. Within a week of charges being dropped, Mason should have held a presser in United colors to offer whatever explanation legally possible. Apologize to the family. Apologize to his team. To his club. To his manager. To the fans. He should have told us if he loved his new family, and how he'd never let any harm befall them anymore. He should have said that he's offering 80% of the wages he's collected while suspended to a DV charity. He should have been vulnerable in measures he's taking to be better - the therapy he's receiving, the social good he wishes to do. And that he'll continue to do that for the remainder of his contract. United should have then released a statement stating that despite MG's presser, they would conduct an internal investigation. That as folks raising him since he was a child, they take responsibility for his mistakes, and will conduct an internal review and overhaul of the cultural systems in place so this can never happen again. They should apologize to the family, to the players, to the fans.
A week later, they could have released somewhat similar statements they did now - that they couldn't find any evidence to hold him guilty. He should have been on the tour, with the team. Training separately. Coming on for 5 minutes, repeat. After every game he should have stayed with the fans, taking the abuse, but apologizing. A shirt that says sorry. Hands put together in repentance. Just persist, show us how much you wish you hadn't hurt your family and everyone else. Put in the minutes, the grunt work to earn your spot back. Once the season began, he should do the rounds every game, take the abuse. And stay back again after every game to apologize. If he can win his wife over, make a public appearance with her - let people know she has chosen to forgive him, that the most important person in this situation truly thinks he deserves a second chance. Continue donating your wages, continue putting in the social work, continue trying to be sincere in your apology.
None of this may work, and he may not be able to make it. But at least we'd have appreciated him trying to show repentance. And the club for allowing him to do so. Not this shit show with DVs being flagged as hostile, and ambiguous statements as damage control.
Honest communication, true signs of repentance. Within a week of charges being dropped, Mason should have held a presser in United colors to offer whatever explanation legally possible. Apologize to the family. Apologize to his team. To his club. To his manager. To the fans. He should have told us if he loved his new family, and how he'd never let any harm befall them anymore. He should have said that he's offering 80% of the wages he's collected while suspended to a DV charity. He should have been vulnerable in measures he's taking to be better - the therapy he's receiving, the social good he wishes to do. And that he'll continue to do that for the remainder of his contract. United should have then released a statement stating that despite MG's presser, they would conduct an internal investigation. That as folks raising him since he was a child, they take responsibility for his mistakes, and will conduct an internal review and overhaul of the cultural systems in place so this can never happen again. They should apologize to the family, to the players, to the fans.
A week later, they could have released somewhat similar statements they did now - that they couldn't find any evidence to hold him guilty. He should have been on the tour, with the team. Training separately. Coming on for 5 minutes, repeat. After every game he should have stayed with the fans, taking the abuse, but apologizing. A shirt that says sorry. Hands put together in repentance. Just persist, show us how much you wish you hadn't hurt your family and everyone else. Put in the minutes, the grunt work to earn your spot back. Once the season began, he should do the rounds every game, take the abuse. And stay back again after every game to apologize. If he can win his wife over, make a public appearance with her - let people know she has chosen to forgive him, that the most important person in this situation truly thinks he deserves a second chance. Continue donating your wages, continue putting in the social work, continue trying to be sincere in your apology.
None of this may work, and he may not be able to make it. But at least we'd have appreciated him trying to show repentance. And the club for allowing him to do so. Not this shit show with DVs being flagged as hostile, and ambiguous statements as damage control.
Guilty? Not in a legal sense at least. And he has paid a price being suspended for a long time. And the court of mob wants to destroy his football career once for all. This is the morality police at its best.
He was suspended with pay and his football career isn't being destroyed, it's just not going to continue at United?
It's not even the innocent until proven guilty thing that bothers me. That's not a standard anyone other than the criminal court has any obligation to uphold.
It's the fact he's being tried by social media and he can't even put up a defence because of anonymity laws. The court of social media has heard the case for the prosecution, the defence isn't allowed to be heard, so the verdict has been delivered and is being acted upon. The CPS and United have this mysterious new evidence and we have no idea what it is, ridiculous.
It's the fact he's being tried by social media and he can't even put up a defence because of anonymity laws. The court of social media has heard the case for the prosecution, the defence isn't allowed to be heard, so the verdict has been delivered and is being acted upon. The CPS and United have this mysterious new evidence and we have no idea what it is, ridiculous.
It is obvious why the criminal case was dropped and there is no need for more detail. It is also obvious that the club's response was written by multiple lawyers from both the club and Greenwood. That won't change. The club could/should explain why it has taken so long to get to this stage but they won't and that wouldn't inform what we know about what happened. It might inform us as to exactly how clueless the club is/isn't, and again that isn't hard to "guess" at.
The content of the recording is more than enough for any employer to part ways with an employee.
And it is a very good outcome for Greenwood, even if perhaps he hoped he could just carry on, which was never tenable. That would have turned out very badly for all concerned. In the end still getting $70k per week and getting a loan/move elsewhere is hardly a punishment.
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Wrong.
If this is some academy players or some no hope youth that probably won't gonna make it to top level football (Ravel Morison) do people give them this much benefit of doubt?
If this is some no name bloke caught on paper with the same transcript would he be treated differently?
Do people ferociously defending him because he plays for us and supposedly becomes good?
So Your morality only as thick as "Is he a good footballer"?
He was NOT.
Stop peddling this, not being indicted is not the same with going to trial and declared innocent beyond reasonable doubt.
He made mistake fair enough, he's not jailed btw. Just lost his job. I think that's 2nd chance as good as it comes. Not many in his position got this 2nd chance.
And the club didn't abandon him, what do you expect the club to do? Stand behind him with T-shirt Free Mason?
If this is some no name bloke caught on paper with the same transcript would he be treated differently?
Do people ferociously defending him because he plays for us and supposedly becomes good?
So Your morality only as thick as "Is he a good footballer"?
He was NOT.
Stop peddling this, not being indicted is not the same with going to trial and declared innocent beyond reasonable doubt.
He made mistake fair enough, he's not jailed btw. Just lost his job. I think that's 2nd chance as good as it comes. Not many in his position got this 2nd chance.
And the club didn't abandon him, what do you expect the club to do? Stand behind him with T-shirt Free Mason?
Agreed.
Raahford got abuse because he thought feeding kids was a good idea and he didn't score for a bit (twelve months later).
Our fans are strange.
The fact is if Greenwood was an average right back, we'd be having none of this. He would have been binned off at the first opportunity and everyone would have got on with their lives.
There are so many better ways this could have been handled by the club that it's hard to see why they thought that statement was a good idea.
Is it all that obvious? We have not heard a word from Greenwood, his partner or their respective families. And yet we have all made our minds up?
Fans are always quick to jump to conclusions. Like the other Mason being useless only after 2 matches. We have no clue what ETH has in mind for Moubt and yet we have pre-judged that it was a bad buy, low priority etc. But that's social media for you.
But I for one would like to hear both sides of the story before passing judgment in the case of Greenwood.
According to the club, they explored all possibilities, which leaked and Adam may have used that to create the story. The club also could have just been leaking themselves to see the reaction. The right decision was reached at the end and it could have been just due to the club doing their investigation and exploring all options. We can't hang the club based on a single story from a journalist which can't be verified.
Don’t disagree with you in principle but the reason for the club’s U-turn it seems was the very negative feedback received from various stakeholder groups. In an ideal world he could have stayed but the pressure and the negativity would have been too great on both him and the club. It makes sense to make a start somewhere else, probably in another league.
He can defend himself without breaking any anonymity obligations. Smartly his lawyers will have advised him to say nothing other than the negotiated statement by the club.
And new evidence doesn't have to mean that someone leapt out of the cupboard and said "the Butler did it". Obviously I do not know exactly what that statement means, but existing evidence can change in terms of probative value, if for example the person giving that evidence withdraws cooperation with the prosecution, which would mean any statement would not have anyone to state the context of that statement in court. It could also mean a number of other things, including a number that only really changes the prosecutions ability to gain a conviction. Since the criminal prosecution has been withdrawn that ship has sailed anyway and the club have more than enough to act as they have. Indeed the real question is why didn't they act earlier?
The suspicion is that we hoped to gain a good player back again until they belatedly realised that the majority of fans wanted him nowhere near the club. I'd also guess that they also belatedly realised that if United fans felt like that that the reception he would get at every game would be, at very best, very distracting from the team, not to mention hugely harmful to United's reputation (with the associated financial hit - possibly really what they really cared about, but who knows for sure?)
I'm not on there. What's the general consensus over there?
Harder to be more obvious.
The prosecution had to drop its case because the main witness (his partner) decided not to testify. You can argue that can happen for whatever reason which we will never know about but needing to hear about both sides of the story will never negate the fact that he threatened his partner and demanded sex from an unwilling underage g/f at the time. The fact that he was not guilty of the criminal charges alleged (note how carefully this was worded by Arnold), does not mean he acted legally or was in any way acceptable as a human being. Let’s be honest, if he was a less talented footballer he would have been booted out long ago. This was a moral call above some legal analysis and the club got it right in the end.
There's absolutely no way the full facts of what happened would not have been presented if they cleared Greenwood of what it looks like he has done.
That is the crucial thing here. A plausible explanation for what actually happened is the only thing that needed to be provided. There has been a clear failure to produce that, which immediately undermines his case.
I agree with some of what he says but find it galling that an article talking so deeply, and so frankly about morals in football concerning rape doesn’t mention Arsenal.
Greenwood was never even accused of rape - yet Arsenal have a live situation going on and they’re literally free to play the player with zero media acknowledgement - even a subtle acknowledgment - on the matter.
This is bizarre and makes much of the journalism seem untrustworthy and not consistent imo.
City kept Mendy throughout the length of his contract as well. It might not be easy to get rid of football players under contract when criminality cannot be established. Is there an expert on this subject here?
Greenwood case has an audio and pictures while the Arsenal case from what I understand has no such thing.
What did that article have to do with Arsenal? It was specifically about the Greenwood situation.
Odd that they have stopped naming the Arsenal player given it was all over the press initially. Maybe it stopped after he was (presumably) charged perhaps? Perhaps also why not mentioned in an article about an associated issue if it is sub judice?
I just felt with all in the article about rape specifically and morals in top level football in general and Utd’s bad handling of it (again given Greenwood wasn’t ever charged with rape) it seemed odd to not even allude to the fact that there’s a live case in the PL right now and the club aren’t even swayed from playing the player week in week out.
Like I said, I agree with a good deal of what he’s said, but I do find it troubling when an article moves off the actual specifics of the MG case, goes into the subject of crimes he wasn’t even charged with but still manages to not mention a player in the same league, at another huge club who IS charged and is free to play on through it.
I wish him the absolute worst of luck in the future.
So as long as law enforcement isn't involved we should let them play?
you utter fecking mugMust disagree. United’s women team by all accounts did not want him back, which is completely understandable. It would have been awful to see us turn our backs on their opinion and felt it was more important to “rehabilitate” a person who has done the things he has done - the audio is enough to make my blood boil.
Whether he’s been at our club from the age of 7 or not, his actions must have consequences. He isn’t seeing the back of a prison cell astonishingly, so the last thing he deserves is getting to stay at a club like ours. If that happened, he literally gets away with everything without barely a repercussion.
When it’s laid out like this, it is so clear how much better this situation could have been handled.
I still don’t see how he could continue at the club under any circumstances though. The world has changed, horrible male behaviour when it comes to light isn’t tolerated any more.
it amazes me how some can say with a straight face that he has faced no consequences. Your statement would be true if he were some average joe, but he is a celebrity and his crime is known by the entire country. He is essentially public enemy number one in the country right now. I understand the outrage as the tape did sound pretty awful, but I do not believe these public attacks are the solution to resolving his inner demons.
Well you have that, plus you have another player who killed someone while drunk driving who played for years week in week out for another London club with no fuss, 115 charges FC who are the best thing since sliced bread apparently.
It seems the laws of morality apply differently to some clubs.
All true
Domestic violence cases rarely go to court and without the complainant's statement there was no realistic chance of a conviction. That's fairly self-explanatory.
It's a short clip from a longer recording. It's a stretch to say it was edited. What exactly are you claiming?
I don't think there's any great mystery here and there's certainly no simple explanation that would explain away the audio and photos or we'd have heard it years ago and he'd be playing for United tight now. You're Inferring a fair amount without actually saying anything.
This implies Audio or it didn't happen.
All I can say is wow.
Near two years out of the game and the infamy is not nothing. Now, you can say he deserves that and whatever, but let’s not pretend he got arrested, woke up the next day, and it had all disappeared.
Almost sound like a mechanics in place to make sure talented but troubled people play no matter issues as long as they do some Oprah or Ellen tours and some right donations or stunts. They also have a lax attitude on doping issues in the US. Different landscape for sure.
He is shyte. Lukaku scored more in a season than him
Wasn't it there was new evidence and a key witness pulling out. Lets get the narrative correct to begin with.
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