So innocent until proven guilty?
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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So innocent until proven guilty?
You meant the charges that will be retried early next year?
That's the thing - don't think most of them would care at that point.
I can tell you that I'm on record, along with a bunch of others, stating that I'm done supporting this club if MG ever played for us again. feck United. If he came on and scored, it'd be the same as Haaland getting a hattrick for City. A soulless act for a soulless club.
The fact that this foundational disconnect doesn't exist off the Greenwood decision for all the defenders is enough to convince me of my initial assertion.
All it meant was that 21 is still young. You can call MG an adult, I can call MG a boy, whatever the term, 21 is young.
It doesn’t excuse him of his actions but it’s something worth keeping in mind that this boy/adult through his actions has ruined the rest of his life and that’s sad because of the promise it held.
This is the best point, an in patient anger management program should have happened right away
He is proven guilty so far with the audio tape and picture.
He hasn't debunked it
So it's not like it's unproven accusation.
It's very different with a "she said he said without tape / vids / pics of actual incident" where we could have given MG the benefits of doubt. But when the audio comes out, the benefit of doubts would be on the girl, the ball would be in Mason court to prove the accusation is wrong.
Without the tapes and vids I don't think most of us would be against MG playing.
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By every meaningful metric, 21 years of age is an adult.
Fine fine, an adult. He’s a fully grown, well developed, at the peak of his physical and mental prowess, adult.
I just think it’s part of the fine art of deflection for people to call him a boy or insinuate he’s some sort of overgrown child by harping on his “youth”.
Fine fine, an adult. He’s a fully grown, well developed, at the peak of his physical and mental prowess, adult.
Many thoughts on this one. The initially presented evidence was not the best thing for Mason, but then he was found innocent by the court system. A person deserves a free and fair trial and not be judged in the court of public opinion. In the end, he was a young man who made a mistake, and in a time when the club needed him the most they abandoned him. Won't be the first footballer that this happens to nor the last.
In the end, I'm the most disappointed by the clubs' decision makers, depending on what reports were to be believed; Mason was set to stay at the club until it was leaked to the press and there was a tremendous backlash against it. It only shows to the people up top that if you scream loud enough, they will change their minds about something. Very laughable and amateur from the leadership.
In the end, I'm the most disappointed by the clubs' decision makers, depending on what reports were to be believed; Mason was set to stay at the club until it was leaked to the press and there was a tremendous backlash against it. It only shows to the people up top that if you scream loud enough, they will change their minds about something. Very laughable and amateur from the leadership.
He wasn't. Charges were dropped due to withdrawal of key witnesses and "new evidence" supposedly coming to light.
So then they didn't have enough evidence to even charge him at trial..
What happened to GifLord?
Yes because key witnesses pulled out. He was not exonerated in any way.
Add them to the people to blame.
Anyone but the actual people who started this...
What's the point of this statement? You are innocent until you are not.
They did have enough evidence though, but the key witness changed their mind.
After Greenwood broke bail and saw her numerous times.
I mean, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand what is likely to have happened there.
Read between the lines. He can't prove his innocence without also proving someone's guilt, hence why that will never happen.
Man Utd are implying that there IS context which can be applied to the leaked evidence that puts him in the clear. The problem is that the context probably incriminates somebody else...
And his alleged attacker is now the mother of his child and has reconciled with him.. We only know what facts were leaked, perhaps there is more to the story than what is in the public domain. We can all speculate whatever we want.
Which part?
The feeling bad for the young girl part or the fact that sexual and domestic violence cases have some of the highest recidivism rates?
.... really?
You're actually going this far for a football player, who has absolutely no clue who you are
That's pretty messed up. I don't disagree with you because that is exactly what's happening, but it's still insane seeing it typed out.
If you shoot someone in the head and get away with it, are you "innocent"? In the eyes of the law yes. But you should know with your own complex legal system that it's not as simple as that, there are civil cases and all sorts where it requires less burden of proof. And at the end of the day, you still did it.
Besides, you all seem to still be forgetting, Greenwood told us all that HE DID do something wrong that led to her releasing those social media posts. That means he fecked up somehow at least, and it means she did have that evidence.
This is the only other explanation.
And that's what people in here won't let themselves understand...there's no way Greenwood or his partner come out of this in the clear. One or both have majorly fecked up. It's not "the mob" that has done this, it's Greenwood himself and the club then making a bigger mess of it.
The best thing for them as a family is a fresh start, but people don't care about them it's all about internet points and raging about some perceived online injustice. Whilst acting like a mob themselves online, no less. Honestly, the mind boggles.
Yep, I read that post and immediately thought of the guys who murdered Emmitt Till, got acquitted, then gave an interview explaining how they did it. “Innocent” though
There was some new evidence as well, but yea besides that it’s obvious what happened.
what I do wonder is did United prevent him from talking to any media until they had completed there investigation.
Innocent until proven guilty should always be a thing of course. But what do you want the public to do, the pictures and audio were extremely damning, damning enough to set all these events into motion in the first place. You'd need some pretty convincing evidence to suggest those pictures and audio weren't damning.
It's one thing to be just ones word against another, it's a whole other thing entirely to have audio like Greenwood's audio out in the open.
I read it as United don't know shit apart from what MG claimed.
What they called internal investigations are probably just MG infront of a 3 men Ethical committee asking "What happened?"
1. We have no jurisdiction to uncover evidence
2. We have legal implications in tampering with all the evidence, I don't think a Football Club has the rights to deal with these sort of Investigations
3. Any sort of "Findings" would just be MG telling him his stories
And logically, what's more damaging than a Rape / Physical assault, what other incrimination could be more damaging? The fact that they have nothing plausible brought forward meant for me it's just face saving of "we did our due diligence" and probably the "Mason is alright" was part of the deal to make him drop all future charges of being terminated
On top of my head
1. That MG was not alone and he's with a group of friends and that the new proof could have implicated more names, but that's equally worse than 1 person Rape / Physical Assault
2. BDSM Game?
3. Psychotic Amber Heard Femme Fatale that MG loved and trying to protect? But he's the one caught assaulting her. At least Johny Depp never assaulted Amber
4. Boris Johnson was present and it could present a national scandal?
So what other possibility is there that could 100% exonerated MG out of his doing? Even at my wildest imagination i can't think of any
I am pissed off but I am not sure I know whom to blame. I am all over the place. How the feck did we get here? Morrison, now Greenwood. I feel we have been robbed as a club of generational talents.
The new evidence could be anything from her changing her statement, to an explanation for the evidence we've seen. Again, we can all have an opinion on what likely happened there.
But one thing I mentioned earlier, and people still seem to be overlooking, is she DID record a video statement and that's what led them to take this further...taking that back and providing some defence for him would definitely lead to the case being dropped.
And United haven't been able to verify that defence themselves either btw.
Blame the players themselves, but we can also look harshly at the club and the handling of young players too.
After all, they happened on our watch under our duty of care and certainly with Greenwood, we've absolutely dropped a bollock on how we've dealt with this. It's another symptom of just what a state we are in and how we are being run. But as with everything, the fans want to go at each other rather than looking at those responsible.
I don't think United can or have any rights or power to gag him, not when it's not sports related. His life is on the line proverbially speaking he could opened up and make a defend at any time his legal team deemed ok, but he doesn't. At this point he really has no defence I think, and he's guilty of the thing accused. More like he has nothing good to say and silence is the best course of action.
In the age where a No is a No that's as damning as its get.
Both out of the club. Who is going far? I don't get you.
Yes. He was actually convicted and we could have taken steps then? It just happens that there is now a retrial. If we want to stick by principles, let's be consistent.
Perhaps we start sacking players for speeding tickets then?
The Maguire conviction seemed incredibly dodgy at the time and even if not, nor subject to a retrial, it is in no way comparable to the Greenwood case.
It's likely the same people who rage against the police and legal system for all sorts of injustices elsewhere though.
Suddenly the system is infallible, suddenly the fact these kinds of cases are very rarely proven doesn't matter. Never mind the facts we do know, or the evidence we have seen, that doesn't matter because we can't have opinions or experience or a voice.
"mob rule" "cancel culture" all that type of stuff and raging against it is raging against free speech and the right to be heard. Sometimes it's wrong, sometimes it make a geniune difference. But how can anyone, arguing with their opinion on an internet forum/social media site no less, try to suggest it's a bad thing for people to speak out?
It utterly cowardly to blame people on the outside for this mess. Blame the people directly involved if you want to blame anyone. Me myself, I just find it all desperately sad. As a fan, as a father, as someone who has lived for DV in a couple of different ways, as a human. It's just a sad situation and the best thing clearly is they as a family be allowed to move on and live their life. Hopefully happily, hopefully this all is the lesser of the evils and they can reconcile and grow.
Even if that means he plays for another English club and bangs one in against us. I don't care, all I know is that this whole thing happened on our watch and we should now be asking the questions of how and why. Because sure as shit, something isn't right at the moment.
I mean there needs to be standards and thresholds I suppose. Speeding tickets no. Speeding and killing someone perhaps. Assaulting police in another country perhaps. Conduct bringing disrepute to the club - yes.
Perhaps?
Same here
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