Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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Pickle85 said:
I'm sorry I don't live up to your expectations but then your take on the situation seems to be entirely based on the fact that Greenwood is now back with the woman he allegedly beat. It's been noted again and again that this is not uncommon in domestic violence cases and doesn't make the crimes committed any less serious or any less worthy of punishment. Without meaning to be rude, I honestly don't think the opinion that 'it's all ok because she's back with him, so we should just move on' deserves any respect.
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I never express it as okay or not okay. I just don’t really care because this circumstance is not normal. In normal circumstances, Greenwood and his girlfriend shouldn’t be together and living together again if his girlfriend is unhappy. But the reality is it’s the opposite of normal circumstances. Rather than wasting our time acting like we know everything what is right and what is wrong, let the club under Sir Jim to make the decision. And that’s where my stand is.

I’m afraid based on your lack of respect calling my post as unrepentant insanity, I think you will only accept one choice. While if the club or Sir Jim somehow making the other choice even if they state the reasons are, you will go berserk and call it as repentant insanity no matter what.
 
The Cat said:
Just get some kind of fee for him . Dont want him back.
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He’s obviously not coming back. No matter what is speculated it just simply won’t happen. That part is done

My problem is that you can’t ignore that he is clearly a brilliant player. So I don’t want him sold on the cheap just to appease people and I don’t want him sold just for money in the pot. He needs to be directly and appropriately replaced IMO because we’re selling one of our academy graduates who is likely to be back in the PL at some point smashing in goals for someone like Liverpool who always get a free pass
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
So he scored I see, but instead of taking about that, it’s the same old high school bickering going on.

Such a terrible idea to remove the performance thread for this car crash.

Delighted he’s putting up good numbers, I really do think we may get 40+ for him if we play our cards right. He’d be excellent for Atletico.
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High school? More like nursery school !

The bickering actually ramps up significantly whenever he scores as those who want him hung, drawn and quartered don't like any football related chat in here.

Yes it was clearly a bad idea to remove the Performance thread.
 
United888 said:
I never express it as okay or not okay. I just don’t really care because this circumstance is not normal. In normal circumstances, Greenwood and his girlfriend shouldn’t be together and living together again if his girlfriend is unhappy. But the reality is it’s the opposite of normal circumstances. Rather than wasting our time acting like we know everything what is right and what is wrong, let the club under Sir Jim to make the decision. And that’s where my stand is.

I’m afraid based on your lack of respect calling my post as unrepentant insanity, I think you will only accept one choice. While if the club or Sir Jim somehow making the other choice even if they state the reasons are, you will go berserk and call it as repentant insanity no matter what.
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You could have just said this.
 
Pickle85 said:
You could have just said this.
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I did.

United888 said:
The girl’s family and the girl herself don’t seem to take this matter seriously and they are happily to forgive Greenwood. Why should I take this matter seriously if the victim doesn’t care and now living in a house with Greenwood?

I don’t care and I don’t have issue whether he’s going to be part of the squad again or sell him. As long as we don’t do loan again because it’s not benefit us for our FFP if we want to improve our squad.
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Rood said:
High school? More like nursery school !

The bickering actually ramps up significantly whenever he scores as those who want him hung, drawn and quartered don't like any football related chat in here.

Yes it was clearly a bad idea to remove the Performance thread.
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It would be the same whatever thread it is, when he played shit the other day it was a ghost town in here, he has a good game and the same shit gets repeated.
 
We'll know soon enough but if I was him, I'd stay put in Spain.
 
Rood said:
High school? More like nursery school !

The bickering actually ramps up significantly whenever he scores as those who want him hung, drawn and quartered don't like any football related chat in here.

Yes it was clearly a bad idea to remove the Performance thread.
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That's not true and you're yet again misrepresenting the discussions here. From what I've seen, posts talking objectively about his performances don't cause the 'bickering'. The last few pages since he played yesterday actually have very few posts about his performance and the ones that are there don't seem to have caused any bickering. The posts that do cause the anti-greenwood posters to push back are the ones like this, which I'm assuming you won't find that surprising:

red_devil29 said:
Im so excited for him to come back. So many people here are playing moral judges, but before being moral judges, one must first possess the ability to give people the benefit of the doubt. Especially when he hasn't been convicted of anything illegal. Luckily, you have no influence on the decision.
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red_devil29 said:
If there is no verdict issued, then it is such that he is, by definition, innocent. The fact that some attribute a 'we don't really know' approach is precisely why doubt should work in his favor, especially when the police did not believe the evidence was sufficient for a conviction.

This is the core of the discussion regarding Greenwood's return, so we need to address that.

But yes, one can be guilty without being convicted. However, the point remains that knowledge of whether a person is guilty is crucial for a verdict. If a murder cannot be solved due to a lack of concrete 'knowledge,' you can claim the person is guilty, but it's not based on objective findings.

Legally speaking, Greenwood is innocent! Alternatively, we can all individually speculate on what he exactly did - and in that way, attribute guilt to him for actions that would even vary if you ask 10 different people.
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Pickle85 said:
That's not true and you're yet again misrepresenting the discussions here. From what I've seen, posts talking objectively about his performances don't cause the 'bickering'. The last few pages since he played yesterday actually have very few posts about his performance and the ones that are there don't seem to have caused any bickering. The posts that do cause the anti-greenwood posters to push back are the ones like this, which I'm assuming you won't find that surprising:
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Also, the performance posts that DO cause bickering are the ones that run something like: 'absolutely brilliant today, ran things. Better stats than Vinicius - can't wait to see him back at OT.'
 
Lash said:
It would be the same whatever thread it is, when he played shit the other day it was a ghost town in here, he has a good game and the same shit gets repeated.
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The Performance thread had some bickering but it was generally ok, certainly compared to this mess of a thread anyway
 
Wibble said:
Your ignorance about how domestic violence victims behave is not a good look.
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There are no moral absolutes. You’re one of the staff here, not a judge. You have no right to call my decision as ignorance just because I don’t want to choose either side what‘s right and what’s wrong.
 
Pickle85 said:
That's not true and you're yet again misrepresenting the discussions here. From what I've seen, posts talking objectively about his performances don't cause the 'bickering'. The last few pages since he played yesterday actually have very few posts about his performance and the ones that are there don't seem to have caused any bickering. The posts that do cause the anti-greenwood posters to push back are the ones like this, which I'm assuming you won't find that surprising:
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I haven't read it all TBH - I just saw that he scored so came here to see if there was any more detail about performance, goal video etc and just found the usual nonsense instead !
 
United888 said:
There are no moral absolutes. You’re one of the staff here, not a judge. You have no right to call my decision as ignorance just because I don’t want to choose either side what‘s right and what’s wrong.
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No moral absolutes. So you don't think that attempted rape and domestic assault are absolutely morally wrong?
 
United888 said:
There are no moral absolutes. You’re one of the staff here, not a judge. You have no right to call my decision as ignorance just because I don’t want to choose either side what‘s right and what’s wrong.
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One side IS definitely wrong though.
 
Pickle85 said:
Saying that you don't care about the crimes he's accused of is pretty disgraceful to be honest.
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You told me that I could have just say ‘’I don’t care’’, and now you criticised it. Make up your mind what you want me to say. You just want to argue with me because I prefer not to pick either side. I have stated my reason why I chose not to care. When you posted that post, I doubt you even remember what was my reason, otherwise you wouldn’t call it disgraceful.

If you really care, you should spend more time starting partition or some campaign or find idea for Greenwood to be punished and going to jail. Spending your time insulting people who prefer not to pick either side ain’t helping you but only reflecting you as being disrespectful.
 
United888 said:
There are no moral absolutes. You’re one of the staff here, not a judge. You have no right to call my decision as ignorance just because I don’t want to choose either side what‘s right and what’s wrong.
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I'm a poster too. And I have every right to mybown opinion and to call your opinion ignorant when you seem utterly ignorant of how domestic violence victims behave. Returning to their abuser is incredibly common.

And it is bizarre that you don't even want to have an ethical or moral opinion. BTW that means you do anyway, as ignoring ethics and morality is an opinion and/or stance.
 
United888 said:
You told me that I could have just say ‘’I don’t care’’, and now you criticised it. Make up your mind what you want me to say. You just want to argue with me because I prefer not to pick either side. I have stated my reason why I chose not to care. When you posted that post, I doubt you even remember what was my reason, otherwise you wouldn’t call it disgraceful.

If you really care, you should spend more time starting partition or some campaign or find idea for Greenwood to be punished and going to jail. Spending your time insulting people who prefer not to pick either side ain’t helping you but only reflecting you as being disrespectful.
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You can't express an opinion and then get so precious when people disagree. That isn't how a discussion forum works.
 
Pickle85 said:
No moral absolutes. So you don't think that attempted rape and domestic assault are absolutely morally wrong?
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Oldyella said:
One side IS definitely wrong though.
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If it’s wrong or definitely wrong then greenwood should have go to jail and the club shouldn’t take their time to release him. This shows how this world works differently than how you imagined and this is why I have the right to choose not to call it right or wrong.
 
Rood said:
The Performance thread had some bickering but it was generally ok, certainly compared to this mess of a thread anyway
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This thread isn't too bad at points, then some newbie tends to come along and put their hot take that's been discussed as nauseam and people against his return can't help but call it out. I don't see how that would be any different in a performance thread, his return discussion and performance is too closely linked.
 
I've never put anyone on ignore but if I did this thread would provide a handy starter list.
 
United888 said:
There are no moral absolutes.
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Is itself a moral absolute.

United888 said:
If it’s wrong or definitely wrong then greenwood should have go to jail and the club shouldn’t take
their time to release him.
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The case collapsing is not evidence of Greenwood's innocence.

You will inevitably counter this fact with ' yeah, but that isn't evidence of guilt, either' but the hard evidence remains, damning, and cannot accrue the necessary mitigation to absolve Greenwood's abusive behaviour.

The club, under the direction of Arnold, shamefully attempted this but had to embarrassingly change their mind whenever the first wave of scrutiny arrived.

How Ineos will manage this dissent will be key to any form of reintegration, but I cannot see it happening without serious outcry. It could, and likely will, legitimately impugn the club for a generation.

Spoony said:
:lol:

Perhaps a one man protest against domestic violence.
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There will be more than one protestor, believe me.
 
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United888 said:
If it’s wrong or definitely wrong then greenwood should have go to jail and the club shouldn’t take their time to release him. This shows how this world works differently than how you imagined and this is why I have the right to choose not to call it right or wrong.
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So unless you go to jail everything else is ok?

What a truly bizarre opinion.
 
The discussion of his performances is not objective. It's to praise a probable rapist when he plays well. So no, it's still not a good look for the caf. Not a fecking peep about any context or when he doesn't play well.
 
brontelicious said:
Is



There will be more than one protestor, believe me.
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Of course. I found his opinions utterly bizarre. Reminds me of a bloke I knew who hated immigrants and refugees. He told me that I should let them live in my place for free if I cared about them so much.
 
Even if we choose to ignore how much of a piece of shit the lad is, is it not fair to say he hasn’t actually been that good this season, apart from a few glimpses here and there? I just don’t get the clamouring over him. Why do people want him back so bad even though he’s not looked like sorting any of our problems? He also looks pretty lazy on the pitch, and selfish, like he did in his last season here. Do we need another one of those?

Pellistri has had impressive performances on his loan too and nobody seems to give a shit.
 
moses said:
The discussion of his performances is not objective. It's to praise a probable rapist when he plays well. So no, it's still not a good look for the caf. Not a fecking peep about any context or when he doesn't play well.
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I actually think it's very unlikely he's a rapist and it's not a good look for the Caf to be allowing such libellous accusations (not from you to be clear but others say it all the time).

Not all the performance chat is positive either but yes there is usually more when he plays well than not.
 
If he was messi standard none of you would bat an eye lid. Where‘s all the hissing and boo’ing for golden boy Ronaldo after he an*lly r*ped that woman in Vegas and paid her 20m to shut up. No one gave 2 hoots. Plus apart from the audio from Greenwood nobody knows no other facts.
 
Wibble said:
There is no need for doubt. We know exactly what sort of unrepentant scumbag he is.
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How? If it's so clear, why couldn't the police meet the burden of proof without a key witness? If the audio recording alone is evidence for us here on Redcafe that he is guilty, why doesn't the police utilize the same audio recording in court despite the witness withdrawing?

Either we are therefore not in a position to call him anything other than what he is: innocent. If it had been as clear-cut as you make it sound, trust me, he would have been convicted regardless of witness testimony."
 
United888 said:
If it’s wrong or definitely wrong then greenwood should have go to jail and the club shouldn’t take their time to release him. This shows how this world works differently than how you imagined and this is why I have the right to choose not to call it right or wrong.
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If it was right, the club wouldn't have needed to ban him, and send him on loan when he was available to return.
 
Rood said:
High school? More like nursery school !

The bickering actually ramps up significantly whenever he scores as those who want him hung, drawn and quartered don't like any football related chat in here.

Yes it was clearly a bad idea to remove the Performance thread.
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So much neutrality :drool:
 
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