Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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moses said:
You say that, like you did with Qatar, but you tend to incessantly argue against only one opinion while saying you are neutral. It's weird.

You have the third most posts in a really polarised thread to argue you don't have a strong opinion. That's weird too.
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I do have a strong opinion but it's not the partisan opinion that you try and make out. You clearly have an extreme 'No' opinion and just because I disagree doesn't make my opinion 'Yes'.

As I keep saying it's not a black or white subject from my perspective.
 
Rood said:
I do have a strong opinion but it's not the partisan opinion that you try and make out. You clearly have an extreme 'No' opinion and just because I disagree doesn't make my opinion 'Yes'.

As I keep saying it's not a black or white subject from my perspective.
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Of course it's not black and because we don't know the full story, but I don't take refuge in the grey areas or hypotheticals to push my opinion. Our opinions are formed on the data to hand.


Straight question, do you believe, with what we know, that he is repsonsible for those bruises on his partner?

Also, could you clarify your strong opinion?
 
golden_blunder said:
Sorry but I find that quite ignorant actually, there’s a bit of downplaying how do fans feel about this. They should go to the match and be quiet right?
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That's not what I said - I'm just telling you how things work at Old Trafford

I've had a season ticket for 30+ years so I think I'm a pretty good place to explain Old Trafford fan culture
 
Rood said:
That's not what I said - I'm just telling you how things work at Old Trafford

I've had a season ticket for 30+ years so I think I'm a pretty good place to explain Old Trafford fan culture
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And I think you’re misreading the situation regarding other fans. This is not an ordinary issue which the fans will forget with a few goals
 
Half the stadium would be booing him if he came back? Let's be honest, a significant number of fans at any match will be day trippers and tourists who don't really care who is on the pitch as they are just happy to be there and take their selfies.
 
BristolRuss said:
Half the stadium would be booing him if he came back? Let's be honest, a significant number of fans at any match will be day trippers and tourists who don't really care who is on the pitch as they are just happy to be there and take their selfies.
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And you think day trippers have no opinions of their own?
 
flameinthesun said:
Fair enough.
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Do you not see any difference in the Ronaldo situation? I didn’t want him back anyway, but there isn’t a recording of him abusing anyone like there is with MG. It’s the irrefutable evidence that makes it impossible to deny his wrongdoing. Surely you can see the difference.
 
neon_badger said:
I've already posted this but due to the circular nature of this thread I think it bears repeating, i know approx 10 season ticket holders, 20 staff at Utd, 20 current colleagues that work in the Old Trafford area and about another 30 friends/family that live in South Manchester that are lifelong United fans and nobody I've spoken to over the last 18months regarding Greenwood want him anywhere near the club, this is a fairly broad demographic of people not just old farts like me. I'm not saying one person's view supersedes anothers because they go to games etc, just pointing out that in my experience the closer you get to the club the stronger the feeling is against Greenwood. Perhaps its just the company I keep, I'd be interested to know if anyone has similar experiences outside of the online world.
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I live in south Manchester and have the exact same experience.
 
Posh Red said:
Do you not see any difference in the Ronaldo situation? I didn’t want him back anyway, but there isn’t a recording of him abusing anyone like there is with MG. It’s the irrefutable evidence that makes it impossible to deny his wrongdoing. Surely you can see the difference.
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No. It seems people think this is not a fairly unique situation.

It's the audio, video and images of the actual bodily harm. It's mad that this has to be recalled for people.
 
BristolRuss said:
Half the stadium would be booing him if he came back? Let's be honest, a significant number of fans at any match will be day trippers and tourists who don't really care who is on the pitch as they are just happy to be there and take their selfies.
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So what is your point? People who live far from the ground have a different take on domestic violence?
 
Posh Red said:
Do you not see any difference in the Ronaldo situation? I didn’t want him back anyway, but there isn’t a recording of him abusing anyone like there is with MG. It’s the irrefutable evidence that makes it impossible to deny his wrongdoing. Surely you can see the difference.
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Im not sure irrefutable is the right word as if it was irrefutable he would be in jail.

Regarding Ronaldo there is transcript of him admitting that the alleged victim told him no multiple times. Is that evidence more or less than the Greenwood evidence? Greenwood's partner has recanted her statement and seems to have moved on with Greenwood, is that worse or better than the alleged victim in the Ronaldo situation who seemingly hasn't got justice?

The point on Ronaldo is you can very much make the argument that what he did was worse if you want to. However, in reality if both truly did what they were accused of, then both are equally as horrible as each other and therefore you should hold the same standard for both. So for yourself, did you kick up a fuss when Ronaldo returned? Were you sickened when he put on the United jersey again?
 
golden_blunder said:
And you think day trippers have no opinions of their own?
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moses said:
So what is your point? People who live far from the ground have a different take on domestic violence?
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They have opinions but as I said I don't think they would be booing him. Most are just happy to be there. They don't care who is on the pitch, and some won't even care if United win or lose. The experience of being there and taking their pictures is all that matters. The people who are vocal at matches are the regulars, not the tourists. And even among the regulars it wouldn't be 50% booing
 
BristolRuss said:
They have opinions but as I said I don't think they would be booing him. Most are just happy to be there. They don't care who is on the pitch, and some won't even care if United win or lose. The experience of being there and taking their pictures is all that matters. The people who are vocal at matches are the regulars, not the tourists. And even among the regulars it wouldn't be 50% booing
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Well when I say day trippers I’m not just referring to Japanese tourists, I’m talking about the Irish etc going over on ferries which is usually a sizeable amount
And they won’t be quiet with their opinions
 
flameinthesun said:
Im not sure irrefutable is the right word as if it was irrefutable he would be in jail.

Regarding Ronaldo there is transcript of him admitting that the alleged victim told him no multiple times. Is that evidence more or less than the Greenwood evidence? Greenwood's partner has recanted her statement and seems to have moved on with Greenwood, is that worse or better than the alleged victim in the Ronaldo situation who seemingly hasn't got justice?

The point on Ronaldo is you can very much make the argument that what he did was worse if you want to. However, in reality if both truly did what they were accused of, then both are equally as horrible as each other and therefore you should hold the same standard for both. So for yourself, did you kick up a fuss when Ronaldo returned? Were you sickened when he put on the United jersey again?
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I mean, obviously less :lol: Are you joking?

Edit: I cannot believe we are still hearing the ‘partner has moved on argument’. You realise when you say things like that, it makes you sound utterly disingenuous?
 
BristolRuss said:
They have opinions but as I said I don't think they would be booing him. Most are just happy to be there. They don't care who is on the pitch, and some won't even care if United win or lose. The experience of being there and taking their pictures is all that matters. The people who are vocal at matches are the regulars, not the tourists. And even among the regulars it wouldn't be 50% booing
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Even if it was 5% of the crowd booing, that would still be incredibly disruptive. These are all things the club will need to take into consideration.
 
Ja-dublegz said:
Guess we’ll find out soon enough but I’m pretty certain he’ll be back. He’s simply too good a player to cast aside considering the mess we’re in. He walks into our team and instantly improves it drastically, which is ultimately the most important factor in play.
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I think you are vastly overstating his abilities. He is an upgrade on Antony I will grant you that but the notion that any one player improves us drastically is pretty fanciful.
 
Rood said:
Not many at Old Trafford would boo Greenwood, those who think they would don't go to many matches and dont understand our fan culture.

It doesnt mean they support Greenwood though but booing a player at OT is rare, the general idea is to support the team on the pitch regardless.

The reaction off the pitch is actually more important as we saw last summer.
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:lol:
 
Posh Red said:
I mean, obviously less :lol: Are you joking?

Edit: I cannot believe we are still hearing the ‘partner has moved on argument’. You realise when you say things like that, it makes you sound utterly disingenuous?
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Agreed. It is ignorant and pathetic beyond belief.
 
Gandalf said:
I think you are vastly overstating his abilities. He is an upgrade on Antony I will grant you that but the notion that any one player improves us drastically is pretty fanciful.
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I think you’re forgetting how good he was more like. I get that you dislike him for understandable reasons but to downplay his abilities is disingenuous.
 
moses said:
Of course it's not black and because we don't know the full story, but I don't take refuge in the grey areas or hypotheticals to push my opinion. Our opinions are formed on the data to hand.
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Well put. Cowering in the grey to push an opinion does not make someone "neutral" on this topic.
 
Oldyella said:
Why reluctantly have him back? Why not just not want him back?
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Because most think he’s just too good to let go for nothing (relatively) and since he hasn’t been convicted of anything if he’s going to play football it might as well be here. Doesn’t absolve him of being a scumbag though.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Because most think he’s just too good to let go for nothing (relatively) and since he hasn’t been convicted of anything if he’s going to play football it might as well be here. Doesn’t absolve him of being a scumbag though.
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In a perfect world the scumbags play at other clubs surely?
 
Ja-dublegz said:
I think you’re forgetting how good he was more like. I get that you dislike him for understandable reasons but to downplay his abilities is disingenuous.
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I am not downplaying anything. He was good but it was more about potential than what he actually did on the pitch for us. He could finish but had a lot to work on in the other areas of his game and showed little inclination to develop in his time in the side. The 18 month lay off has done him no favors and he hasn’t set the world alight at Getafe. He is good enough for United but he is not the generational talent some believe him to be, add in the baggage and it is a no brainer to sell him in the summer. Happy to take any wager you want on that being the outcome.
 
The whataboutery in this thread is startling.

How can you claim to be being balanced when one minute you're claiming anyone who references other footballers or celebrities as partaking in whataboutery. But then when someone who shares the same opinion as you mentions Sigurdson, Johnson, Qatar and others its not whataboutery?

So much transparent hypocrisy. You can't try to silence other people's well composed arguments as "whataboutery" or "strawman" while turning a blind eye, or supportering other posters with a similar view to yourself, who are literally using what you call "whataboutery" and "strawman" arguments.

You're either consistent with what you feel is appropriate in discussing/debating the subject and apply those standards across everyone or you simply keep quiet. Applying different standards depending on the posters stance simply shows you up as someone who isn't genuine and would rather attack the individual than tackle the argument.

I haven't seen Rood label anyone as whataboutery or strawman and he regularly lays out his arguments in a respectable manner not shying away from difficult questions which he is prepared to answer honestly rather than aggresively throwing labels around.

Well said Rood - the less vocal majority stand behind you.
 
BristolMick said:
The whataboutery in this thread is startling.

How can you claim to be being balanced when one minute you're claiming anyone who references other footballers or celebrities as partaking in whataboutery. But then when someone who shares the same opinion as you mentions Sigurdson, Johnson, Qatar and others its not whataboutery?

So much transparent hypocrisy. You can't try to silence other people's well composed arguments as "whataboutery" or "strawman" while turning a blind eye, or supportering other posters with a similar view to yourself, who are literally using what you call "whataboutery" and "strawman" arguments.

You're either consistent with what you feel is appropriate in discussing/debating the subject and apply those standards across everyone or you simply keep quiet. Applying different standards depending on the posters stance simply shows you up as someone who isn't genuine and would rather attack the individual than tackle the argument.

I haven't seen Rood label anyone as whataboutery or strawman and he regularly lays out his arguments in a respectable manner not shying away from difficult questions which he is prepared to answer honestly rather than aggresively throwing labels around.

Well said Rood - the less vocal majority stand behind you.
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What a load of rubbish. Quote the inconsistent posters and the relevant posts.
 
BristolMick said:
The whataboutery in this thread is startling.

How can you claim to be being balanced when one minute you're claiming anyone who references other footballers or celebrities as partaking in whataboutery. But then when someone who shares the same opinion as you mentions Sigurdson, Johnson, Qatar and others its not whataboutery?

So much transparent hypocrisy. You can't try to silence other people's well composed arguments as "whataboutery" or "strawman" while turning a blind eye, or supportering other posters with a similar view to yourself, who are literally using what you call "whataboutery" and "strawman" arguments.

You're either consistent with what you feel is appropriate in discussing/debating the subject and apply those standards across everyone or you simply keep quiet. Applying different standards depending on the posters stance simply shows you up as someone who isn't genuine and would rather attack the individual than tackle the argument.

I haven't seen Rood label anyone as whataboutery or strawman and he regularly lays out his arguments in a respectable manner not shying away from difficult questions which he is prepared to answer honestly rather than aggresively throwing labels around.

Well said Rood - the less vocal majority stand behind you.
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I'm not sure you know what whataboutery means.
 
BristolMick said:
I haven't seen Rood label anyone as whataboutery or strawman and he regularly lays out his arguments in a respectable manner not shying away from difficult questions which he is prepared to answer honestly rather than aggresively throwing labels around.
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He literally stopped answering me when I asked him a direct question on this page you lunatic.


It's astounding how defending or mitigating MG is so important to some of you. You're another newb fascinated with MG, with half your posts on this subject.
 
BristolMick said:
The whataboutery in this thread is startling.

How can you claim to be being balanced when one minute you're claiming anyone who references other footballers or celebrities as partaking in whataboutery. But then when someone who shares the same opinion as you mentions Sigurdson, Johnson, Qatar and others its not whataboutery?

So much transparent hypocrisy. You can't try to silence other people's well composed arguments as "whataboutery" or "strawman" while turning a blind eye, or supportering other posters with a similar view to yourself, who are literally using what you call "whataboutery" and "strawman" arguments.

You're either consistent with what you feel is appropriate in discussing/debating the subject and apply those standards across everyone or you simply keep quiet. Applying different standards depending on the posters stance simply shows you up as someone who isn't genuine and would rather attack the individual than tackle the argument.

I haven't seen Rood label anyone as whataboutery or strawman and he regularly lays out his arguments in a respectable manner not shying away from difficult questions which he is prepared to answer honestly rather than aggresively throwing labels around.

Well said Rood - the less vocal majority stand behind you.
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:lol:
 
golden_blunder said:
And I think you’re misreading the situation regarding other fans. This is not an ordinary issue which the fans will forget with a few goals
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I'm not saying anyone will forget, you haven't understood my point

I'm saying even the fans at Old Trafford who think he's guilty or don't want him back, not many of them would boo him (yes a small minority might)
 
cafecillos said:
So much neutrality and balance by @BristolMick too :drool:
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I'm not neutral on the subject - I support his return and have listed my views earlier which you're entitled to challenge if you disagree.

I just struggle to believe some people are being genuine with their arguments when they accuse only those they disagree with as using whataboutery but support whataboutery when it's from someone with the same opinion.

Seems like a cop put where they'd rather throw labels around and accuse people of being a certain way or thing because they'd rather attack the individual than the content of their posts. Possibly because they can't compose a good argument against it.

For what it's worth I don't see this from Rood. He will debate the content rather than the character of the person. I haven't seen him accusing anyone of whataboutery he's consistently applying the same standards across both sides of the debate and replying respectfully throughout.
 
moses said:
He literally stopped answering me when I asked him a direct question on this page you lunatic.


It's astounding how defending or mitigating MG is so important to some of you. You're another newb fascinated with MG, with half your posts on this subject.
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The bolded is a question I keep asking about certain posters in here, why do they care about defending him so much? It's like they're all related to, or best friends with him, it's so odd.
 
sepulturite said:
The bolded is a question I keep asking about certain posters in here, why do they care about defending him so much? It's like they're all related to, or best friends with him, it's so odd.
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It almost seems people are signing up to defend him. It's very weird. Like it has become part of the culture wars or something beyond what it is.

It's a bloke with previous discipline issues accused and charged of really awful crimes, with a lot of very damning evidence leaked. The charges were dropped but no explanation for what we have seen given. It seems pretty open and shut to me. As I said earlier it does amaze me that it's so polarised.

It's not in my sphere nor a few others it seems.
 
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It’s facts guys we have to close the thread unfortunately. It’s facts.
 
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