Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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brontelicious said:
all eleven players are usually booed by half time these days
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That's the team getting booed for being crap and even then I doubt its more than 10% of the stadium

Individuals getting booed is rare, does happen from time to time but only by a small minority and it wouldn't expect it to be much different this time
 
Red00012 said:
He won’t be in my opinion , you’re also missing the point in the rest of the post. The decision to what happens next will have nothing to do with “walking into our team” or “too good a player to cast aside”
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I’m not missing your point I just don’t agree with it. Whether you like it or not MG will be playing top level football next season and Utd aren’t in the fortunate position to take the moral high ground here. There was no media shit storm at Getafe and while I appreciate Utd is a different animal altogether, the positives of bringing him back far out way the negatives.
 
moses said:
Odd post. He is activist and obviously partisan, as many of us are, on what has become an oddly polarising subject.
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I'm not sure if you have actually understood my view - it's not like I'm saying he's innocent and should be back at OT now.

My view is that we don't know what happened and I think sending Greenwood on loan was the right decision. I didn't even vote in the poll as I don't think its a black/white issue.

Unlike yours, that is not a partisan opinion
 
moses said:
No, I presumed domestic abuse would be less so.

Interestingly enough, I have asked my peers (aged lefty types mostly) and it's not polarising at all. It's unanimously against a return with no explanation for what we saw.

So I'm wondering, despite the poll on here, is the dispute skewed by a very vocal minority who are more active online. Like for instance guns in the US, with the massive silent majority not actually that split but hugely pro gun regulation.
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A poll is a poll and when it does not go the way some want it to then obviously some are not happy with the result.
I would say there would be posters on here from various parts of the world so we would have to respect the result and if some are more active online then maybe they are the ones more concerned with the issue.
 
Rood said:
I'm not sure if you have actually understood my view - it's not like I'm saying he's innocent and should be back at OT now.

My view is that we don't know what happened and I think sending Greenwood on loan was the right decision. I didn't even vote in the poll as I don't think its a black/white issue.

Unlike yours, that is not a partisan opinion
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You say that, like you did with Qatar, but you tend to incessantly argue against only one opinion while saying you are neutral. It's weird.

You have the third most posts in a really polarised thread to argue you don't have a strong opinion. That's weird too.
 
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Bondi77 said:
A poll is a poll and when it does not go the way some want it to then obviously some are not happy with the result.
I would say there would be posters on here from various parts of the world so we would have to respect the result and if some are more active online then maybe they are the ones more concerned with the issue.
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I didn't want a poll as it stirred up a tired discussion. It wasn't the result I wasn't happy with, it reflected the thread perfectly. No surprise or argument there. I'm just wondering how reflective the thread is as a whole. That's why I posted who my peers were, I didn't try to argue the result.
 
The subject is not black or white, it is a bit more complex than that. I guess we have quite a few who want him back because he is the footballer he is. Understandable if you only focus on football.

In Norway, you find exactly the same opinions, but there is also a much greater focus on rehabilitation and forgiveness here. By no means applies to everyone, but society does not want to have situations where people are hidden away and excluded. It does not make sense economically or socially.

Then there may not be a possibility of a return to Manchester United for MG, but I am more than open to that possibility personally. I have no doubt that what he has done is completely unacceptable, but there must still be a way back to society and his profession as a footballer. Maybe the best thing for him is to do it outside England, but I'm not going to say anything about the fact that it's unfortunate for us from a purely sporting point of view.

In many ways it would have been better if there had been a trial, but now that it didn't happen, you have to move on. But I respect that not everyone can do it, there are many good reasons for that.
 
moses said:
You say that, like you did with Qatar, but you tend to incessantly argue against only one opinion while saying you are neutral. It's weird.

You have the third most posts in a really polarised thread to argue you don't have a strong opinion. That's weird too.
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it’s a legitimate tactic. if i start any sentence with “just playing devil’s advocate here,” then it means i can be a racist.
 
Acquire Me said:
In Norway, you find exactly the same opinions, but there is also a much greater focus on rehabilitation and forgiveness here. By no means applies to everyone, but society does not want to have situations where people are hidden away and excluded. It does not make sense economically or socially.
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And this is the right approach in my opinion. But it requires openness and the truth, and a necessary level of apology or contrition, otherwise it's just not possible.
 
rimaldo said:
it’s a legitimate tactic. if i start any sentence with “just playing devil’s advocate here,” then it means i can be a racist.
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I'm not saying we should bring back capital punishment for immigrants marauding in gangs of two or more, I'm just asking the question.
 
Has the new tactic changed from calling people apologists/Greenwood defenders to "I bet you supported the Qatari bid" now? Trying to figure what the latest moral trend in this thread is.
 
moses said:
And this is the right approach in my opinion. But it requires openness and the truth, and a necessary level of apology or contrition, otherwise it's just not possible.
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Yes, openness and an acceptance are required to be able to tell the truth without prejudging.

The club has done very little under previous management to address this. Actually, we can say that their own investigation was a scandal. Those press releases and what The Athletic came out with created an extremely ugly turn on an already sad case.

There is perhaps some information they cannot say completely openly, but I feel absolutely certain that this could and still can be handled better.
 
Acquire Me said:
Yes, openness and an acceptance are required to be able to tell the truth without prejudging.

The club has done very little under previous management to address this. Actually, we can say that their own investigation was a scandal. Those press releases and what The Athletic came out with created an extremely ugly turn on an already sad case.

There is perhaps some information they cannot say completely openly, but I feel absolutely certain that this could and still can be handled better.
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I totally agree. The thing is if the lad is innocent or there are hugely mitigating factors this is a really unnecessary hellscape for him.
 
Rood said:
I'm not sure if you have actually understood my view - it's not like I'm saying he's innocent and should be back at OT now.

My view is that we don't know what happened and I think sending Greenwood on loan was the right decision. I didn't even vote in the poll as I don't think its a black/white issue.

Unlike yours, that is not a partisan opinion
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I'm not sure over 200 messages in this thread alone are needed for that mission statement, sounds like overkill.

More seriously, unfortunately for you, some in this thread are not as dumb as you think we are.
 
moses said:
You think morals have trends. Interesting.
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Interesting indeed. Based on this thread, Ronaldo's thread when he rejoined and the Vince Mcmahon thread which seems to be a thread to drop witty jokes, I'd say yes.

On a serious note trying to go down the route of "I bet you without any data that most of the people who defend greenwood probably wanted Qatar in" is just a blatant attempt at point scoring and trying achieve moral superiority.
 
flameinthesun said:
Interesting indeed. Based on this thread, Ronaldo's thread when he rejoined and the Vince Mcmahon thread which seems to be a thread to drop witty jokes, I'd say yes.

On a serious note trying to go down the route of "I bet you without any data that most of the people who defend greenwood probably wanted Qatar in" is just a blatant attempt at point scoring and trying achieve moral superiority.
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I've not seen the Vince McMahon thread, but anything in the general on any subject is going to be nuts.

I'm not sure morals, while not fixed, are that dynamic. I think people can be skewed by a narrative or sadly by vested interests I think there is a solid and consistent thread for most people.

Maybe it is point scoring to make that comparison. But what if there was a large overlap? I could be wrong but I think somebody showed there were odd trends last year.

I wasn't trying to make any moral connection above, just pointing outa similar, and I feel dishonest posting style from the poster I was engaging with.
 
flameinthesun said:
Interesting indeed. Based on this thread, Ronaldo's thread when he rejoined and the Vince Mcmahon thread which seems to be a thread to drop witty jokes, I'd say yes.

On a serious note trying to go down the route of "I bet you without any data that most of the people who defend greenwood probably wanted Qatar in" is just a blatant attempt at point scoring and trying achieve moral superiority.
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Had a look at the Vince thread and it appeared he's rich so is guilty was the verdict.
 
moses said:
I've not seen the Vince McMahon thread, but anything in the general on any subject is going to be nuts.

I'm not sure morals, while not fixed, are that dynamic. I think people can be skewed by a narrative or sadly by vested interests I think there is a solid and consistent thread for most people.

Maybe it is point scoring to make that comparison. But what if there was a large overlap? I could be wrong but I think somebody showed there were odd trends last year.

I wasn't trying to make any moral connection above, just pointing outa similar, and I feel dishonest posting style from the poster I was engaging with.
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That's a good faith reply so fair enough. On the morals bit I get what you're saying, although I lean more on the side of people's morals are fluid or fixed until vested interests come into play. Either way, whether they get skewed by a narrative as you suggest or they change based on vested interests as I believe, in either case the morals change for that situation. I've raised this before but for example there is a clear difference in how this forum is responding to Greenwood than how they did with Ronaldo. We can cite the audio etc being the factors but its clear a lot of posters morals aren't the same for both the players.

The point regarding Qatar is its a blatant moral superiority play. There could be an overlap...there could also not be an overlap.

And fair enough regarding the poster.
 
flameinthesun said:
That's a good faith reply so fair enough. On the morals bit I get what you're saying, although I lean more on the side of people's morals are fluid or fixed until vested interests come into play. Either way, whether they get skewed by a narrative as you suggest or they change based on vested interests as I believe, in either case the morals change for that situation. I've raised this before but for example there is a clear difference in how this forum is responding to Greenwood than how they did with Ronaldo. We can cite the audio etc being the factors but its clear a lot of posters morals aren't the same for both the players.

The point regarding Qatar is its a blatant moral superiority play. There could be an overlap...there could also not be an overlap.

And fair enough regarding the poster.
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I can't speak for everyone on Ronaldo, but I didn't want him back. If there had been a year of discussion about bringing him back I would have been very vocal. After he came back I just wished he'd feck off.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
I don’t think so. Anecdotally amongst my friends 20-30 age bracket and from a combination of London and Manchester based fans, opinions are split but most would reluctantly have him back. I think support in the stadium would be pretty significant and if he performed he’s very quickly gain a significant following. Having said that I still think the club with fear the social media backlash and get rid.
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Why reluctantly have him back? Why not just not want him back?
 
Rood said:
Not many at Old Trafford would boo Greenwood, those who think they would don't go to many matches and dont understand our fan culture.

It doesnt mean they support Greenwood though but booing a player at OT is rare, the general idea is to support the team on the pitch regardless.

The reaction off the pitch is actually more important as we saw last summer.
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Sorry but I find that quite ignorant actually, there’s a bit of downplaying how do fans feel about this. They should go to the match and be quiet right?
 
Acquire Me said:
The subject is not black or white, it is a bit more complex than that. I guess we have quite a few who want him back because he is the footballer he is. Understandable if you only focus on football.

In Norway, you find exactly the same opinions, but there is also a much greater focus on rehabilitation and forgiveness here. By no means applies to everyone, but society does not want to have situations where people are hidden away and excluded. It does not make sense economically or socially.

Then there may not be a possibility of a return to Manchester United for MG, but I am more than open to that possibility personally. I have no doubt that what he has done is completely unacceptable, but there must still be a way back to society and his profession as a footballer. Maybe the best thing for him is to do it outside England, but I'm not going to say anything about the fact that it's unfortunate for us from a purely sporting point of view.

In many ways it would have been better if there had been a trial, but now that it didn't happen, you have to move on. But I respect that not everyone can do it, there are many good reasons for that.
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As others have said, that's the justice system and for people who actually seek rehabilitation. Babacar Sarr would not be welcomed back, and was consistently booed every game even while Molde and the media tried to keep his name secret, and outside of the football world you might have noticed the reaction to that group of accused rapists in Bergen.
 
golden_blunder said:
Sorry but I find that quite ignorant actually, there’s a bit of downplaying how do fans feel about this. They should go to the match and be quiet right?
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I think the "don't understand our fan culture" irks me the most about this post.
 
I've already posted this but due to the circular nature of this thread I think it bears repeating, i know approx 10 season ticket holders, 20 staff at Utd, 20 current colleagues that work in the Old Trafford area and about another 30 friends/family that live in South Manchester that are lifelong United fans and nobody I've spoken to over the last 18months regarding Greenwood want him anywhere near the club, this is a fairly broad demographic of people not just old farts like me. I'm not saying one person's view supersedes anothers because they go to games etc, just pointing out that in my experience the closer you get to the club the stronger the feeling is against Greenwood. Perhaps its just the company I keep, I'd be interested to know if anyone has similar experiences outside of the online world.
 
Lash said:
I think the "don't understand our fan culture" irks me the most about this post.
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Is he saying that fan culture turns people into football fundamentalists at the expense of all other feelings or thoughts?
 
neon_badger said:
I've already posted this but due to the circular nature of this thread I think it bears repeating, i know approx 10 season ticket holders, 20 staff at Utd, 20 current colleagues that work in the Old Trafford area and about another 30 friends/family that live in South Manchester that are lifelong United fans and nobody I've spoken to over the last 18months regarding Greenwood want him anywhere near the club, this is a fairly broad demographic of people not just old farts like me. I'm not saying one person's view supersedes anothers because they go to games etc, just pointing out that in my experience the closer you get to the club the stronger the feeling is against Greenwood. Perhaps its just the company I keep, I'd be interested to know if anyone has similar experiences outside of the online world.
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Interesting.

If everyone is to be believed it seems that the biggest factor in people's views is our own sphere or social group, which makes sense but is quite unusual too, as most debates occur among friends.
 
neon_badger said:
I've already posted this but due to the circular nature of this thread I think it bears repeating, i know approx 10 season ticket holders, 20 staff at Utd, 20 current colleagues that work in the Old Trafford area and about another 30 friends/family that live in South Manchester that are lifelong United fans and nobody I've spoken to over the last 18months regarding Greenwood want him anywhere near the club, this is a fairly broad demographic of people not just old farts like me. I'm not saying one person's view supersedes anothers because they go to games etc, just pointing out that in my experience the closer you get to the club the stronger the feeling is against Greenwood. Perhaps its just the company I keep, I'd be interested to know if anyone has similar experiences outside of the online world.
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Thanks. No doubt it will be ignored
 
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