It's important to remember that Mason is the true victim in all of this. Just a bunch of meanies conspiring against him to make him look guilty.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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The only good thing that has come out of this thread.
It is also like 1980 East Germany. There you go.
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He’s just been sent on loan to the Getafe fan forum.
Thanks mate, just in time to ring in the new year.
If there was no hard evidence, which there obviously is, they would not have pursued a case to begin with.
The chances of a conviction fell simply because of key witnesses pulling out and unspecified new evidence coming to light. Neither of these are hard (or soft) evidence of innocence.
The hard evidence includes a recording of Greenwood threatening his partner with rape if he does not receive sex from her.
Unless he can provide the club with a good explanation as to why this is, the club have absolutely no choice. He has to be removed.
For both footballing and moral reasons.
I was not aware of the Ronaldo revelations. Thank you for the update. We need to be careful here about 'undermining people's arguments' on the 'two wrongs basis'.
CR's return and the club's obvious attempts of reintegrating Mason Greenwood are both examples of mismanagement of the part of the Glazer administration.
I'm quite anxious about how Ratcliffe is going to proceed about it.
That’s the point I’m making as they all seem to be fine with her moving to another country with him, that any Dad who thought that sort of thing was happening to their daughter wouldn’t be so calm in their public statement or be ok with their daughter being back with the person so they must know far more than the media have put out so if they’re ok with it all then there’s no reason for anyone else to not be thus meaning a United return should happen.
You may be right. Your faith in human beings is perhaps admirable. However, I can’t help wondering what role the fact that MG is very rich might play in the family’s decision making, and whether his girlfriend is really so free and rational in her choices. The CPS cannot prosecute successfully without the evidence of the girl’s experiences, so they are limited in what they can do. I recall Greenwood saying on the video that he essentially had no choice but to try and enforce his desire on her as when he asked nicely she didn’t want to know. As far as I’m aware nobody is claiming that the video was faked.
Sure, with the evidential problems as they are he is presumed to be innocent in legal terms, which is of course as it should be. But personally I wouldn’t want the guy anywhere near the club.
Strawmanning like that makes your post look really really stupid.
So many posters seem to be ignoring the obvious context of domestic abuse and sexual abuse, and how that context could have influenced the outcome of the case. I assume they haven’t any understanding of these matters.
Any suggestions that the couple re-establishing their relationship is a defence of Mason is so obviously flawed.
Any suggestions that the couple re-establishing their relationship is a defence of Mason is so obviously flawed.
Why though?? These is Isn't some helpless victim in a remote part of the country with minimal support. This is a high profile case with a lot of public attention. I'm certain that many domestic abuse support groups would have reached out the day it all came out. Why must it be that the lady is "helpless" or that her family is "unsupportive". She is in a different country with him ffs! She very well could have stayed back in England without any fuss but her family let her go with him to another country.
I think you’ve proved my point. Have you ever been close to such a situation?
And ethics and morals. Annoyances though they are.
Your sheer and seemingly wilful ignorance of DV and partners returning is amazing.
It seems like you have understanding of these matters. Would Greendwood put in jail now is the best scenario for the woman and her baby?
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I can’t know that. I was referring to posters referencing the resumption of the couples relationship as some sort of positive. It tells us nothing about the reality of the situation, in my opinion.
Whatever we think of him there is no chance of a successful prosecution now that his partners won't cooperated with the DPP.
Not unusual because this happens in about 50% (or more) of cases and partly why successful prosecutions are only about 7%. The vast majority of DV cases (virtually 100% where murder/attempted murder aren't involved) that don't have a cooperating witness aren't proceeded with, due to it being almost impossible to achieve the required standard of proof for a criminal case.
@Posh Red and @Wibble
They've been together since 2019 and the "alleged" abuse was in 2022. I mean, I'm all for punishment for sexual abuse (as I have 3 younger sisters). But probably we also need to consider the broader context on this.
Not saying I understand fully the in and out. So I'm sorry if I just made stupid statement.
They've been together since 2019 and the "alleged" abuse was in 2022. I mean, I'm all for punishment for sexual abuse (as I have 3 younger sisters). But probably we also need to consider the broader context on this.
Not saying I understand fully the in and out. So I'm sorry if I just made stupid statement.
The super high moral standard of not abusing women.
Again, I’m not necessarily making any assumptions about the reality. I’ve just read many posts suggesting that they’ve made up and all is well, and we should just accept that. I don’t think it’s relevant at all in assessing the likelihood of guilt.
What has them being together for a couple of years got to do with anything? DV is as common with much longer term relationships as it is with shorter term ones like this.
Greenwood threatened to rape someone because they refused sex. There is no explanation or context and he has shown no remorse. I think people who do that are scum, even when their prosecution falls over. I don't want people like him playing for the club I've supported for my 60 years on this planet. It is that simple.
The fact he kicks a ball well is irrelevant.
You are confusing ethics and morality with a succesful criminal prosecution. On purpose it would seem.
It almost like "they did it, they're doing it, why should we stop"
According to the club, he did provide an alternative explanation which they accepted (they even said they believe him to be innocent or words to that affect, when they could have easily sat on the fence and said he's not guilty in the eyes of the law).
This conversation just goes in circles. People have incomplete information and choose to believe what they want to believe. Even if the alternative explanation was made public it would be disputed endlessly. Unfortunately, we won't ever know if he's innocent or not. Some people will read that and think "but I do know because X or Y". No, they don't know and likely never will. Stastically, sometimes victims are pressured or coerced into retracting statements, but nobody knows if that's the case here. Statistically, lots of culprits get away with these crimes, but nobody knows if that's the case with Greenwood. It's all speculation. Some people may be confident in their instinctive opinion, and they may well even be right. He might be completely guilty. So it circles back to the same fundamental point which is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. Which seems to be really uncomfortable for some people to accept, but there's really no alternative stance that can be justified imo.
I used to think the Greenwood's should make the information public to explain what happened (or at least, what they want to portray as what happened), to attempt to defuse the situation and provide some closure. But now I think there's no point them doing that, as whatever explanation they give it will never be accepted by a percentage of people.
(not directing this response at you, rather the discussion generally)
The only and only reason that I can think of where he comes out looking like an innocent person is if they were roleplaying. Barring that, what he has done is reprehensible and in any matured society should be met with extreme prejudice and punishment to deter such acts.
Each day he plays for a club and makes money is proof to other abusers that they aren't doing anything wrong. They should just continue. And yes, I know how the legal process works.
I desperately want a talent like him back given our current situation but let's be honest. If he was a low level talent who never played for the first-team then he would have been cut out without batting an eyelid. So the decision of whether to forgive him or absolve him is based on his level of talent which in my opinion is being morally bankrupt.
Yes, other clubs may pick him up and play him. Yes, he may go on to break records. Yes, we may have FOMO while watching it happen. But some things are bigger than football. This is one of them.
In the case of DV a power inequality is far more likely to exist than when people aren't strangers. This is one of the reasons people go back and/or withdraw complaints.
Money can be a strange thing though
Yet again someone looking for ways to excuse and ignore inexcusable behaviour.
You don't deal with unethical behaviour by finding other behaviour, saying it is as bad or worse, then leaping to the assertion that this makes everything ok because it gets the shiny toy you like back. This too is despicable behaviour, and it is no wonder DV is so common and taken do lightly when such terrible opinions exist.
Thankfully, unlike the suggestion in your last sentence, lots of people care.
So is football more important to you than morality?
Football it seem is quite important to both the camps more than they care to admit that's the very reason why whole discussion evokes such heated discussion .
No commitment to buy? Can we make it permanent?
Actually I have a friend who was in such situation.
No I think the heated discussion is because of the domestic violence issue and the way it seems inconsequential to some.
That can clearly be said about most people debating in here.
It wouldn't be so bad if there was any actual effort to even try to learn and understand as the awareness would be great, but the fact is it's boiling down to point scoring as always. Social media at it's finest.
Agreed.
Yeah this doesn't make any sense.
Abusers aren't going, "Mason Greenwood isn't playing for United. Best I not go threatening women with rape".
Neither did they go, "Getafe signed Greenwood! Here we go!" enroute to threatening women with rape.
Horrible people playing football is simply proof of their abilities and the willingness of a club to offer them money for their services. It's nothing deeper than that.
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