Oh look, his football career isn’t completely over as people were crying about.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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Show me a single example of anyone claiming Adam Crafton is a ‘paragon of morality’, as you claim. You can’t, because nobody has done that. Like I said, straw man argument.Sure just speak for everyone.
I genuinely don't know if you're actually reading my posts mate. It is weird I agree, it's weird that you've read my post and then reply as if you've read a completely different one.
My problem is not the morals of a journalist. My point for the 3rd time was a journalist using an issue like this for his own benefit while portraying himself as being altruistic.
A mind reader as well, quite impressive. So where so I really stand then Professor X?
I've said from the start I don't think he should play for the club again.
Also, give me a single example of Crafton claiming to be ‘altruistic’. How is altruism even relevant on this issue? Who on earth expects a journalist to be altruistic? We just expect them to do their job, which is what he did in this case, and that’s why he’s getting praise. But for some reason you have a problem with a journalist being good at their job. Do you think Woodward and Bernstein used Watergate for their ‘own benefit’? They even wrote quite a popular book about it, was that wrong of them?
And pipe down about me not understanding you. I understand you perfectly well. It’s just what you’re saying is bonkers. That’s why you’re going on ignore now. Have a good day.
Hang on, wasn’t it proven that it was a false allegation against Evans
Same can be said regarding condemning him, no? You've condemned him with zero proof at all
I realise some people have strong opinions about all this, but I don't see the worth of this kind of hysterical posting
Since the club's internal investigation cleared Greenwood, then it's absolutely normal that Erik Ten Hag would take him back
Why do people keep saying Crafton leaked stuff? He reported information that was given to him. The leak was the person/people who gave him the information and given what the information was it must be someone that was in on some of the meetings.
When journalists get information unknow to the public in their particular sphere, they report on it. It's literally their job. I don't understand why he's catching flak for doing that, and if you don't like it, tough? It was a big story regarding a high profile case at a big club, of course you report that.
When journalists get information unknow to the public in their particular sphere, they report on it. It's literally their job. I don't understand why he's catching flak for doing that, and if you don't like it, tough? It was a big story regarding a high profile case at a big club, of course you report that.
And I've yet to see a single thing confirmed that he lied about too.
People have some strange aversion to the truth from Journalists all of a sudden.
What's hysterical about thinking its a
dickhead move to be willing to have Greenwood in his team after what he done?
I'm not calling for the club to sack him or saying he's as bad as Greenwood is. But it's definitely not a good look for him.
Clearly not.
Overly emotional, jibber jabber, no idea why you are so angry or why you've taken such an issue with my original mild criticism of a journalist. That's what's bonkers here.
Anyway good night.
That Getafe english account has to be trolling!
Proper surreal shit isn’t it? Mason Mania…
It’s disgusting is what it is.
Agree with this.
Bit dissapointed that he didn't seem to use the time off to put on some muscle.
But what about my feeling of injustice then???
Would never of happened under SAF watch. He should have read Pallisters book.
Of course, half the posts in this thread are mra types bumping it to rub Greenwood in the face of people who have been objecting to this normalisation of sexual violence against women.
This thread is now basically "now go cry more about sexual assault
". They think this as winning.Should’ve watched a few Hodge Twins videos.
Getafe giving him a hero’s welcome and really making a point of it is sickening. It’s bad enough him playing for them on the sly but they’re acting like he’s a god among men. What a small time club.
Not that I can find online
Firstly, you (like probably everyone else on this thread) have no idea what Greenwood has done. I realise you have an opinion about what you think he has done but that's just an opinion, Erik Ten Hag clearly has a different view.
Secondly, the club (who have access to more information about this than you or I) did an internal investigation that cleared Greenwood.
AFAIK Ten Hag was not part of the team that conducted the investigation, I would assume he was simply told the outcome. Possibly he would have been given more of the detail behind it too.
At that point, what do you expect Ten Hag to do exactly?
Lastly, my actual opinion is that going on loan is the correct move in the end because Greenwood has to prove himself (both on and off the pitch) before he should have the chance to play for us again.
But I find it a bit silly to go around calling the manager a dickhead when it's quite obvious that he has been told that Greenwood is not guilty.
Yeah to be honest, I am feeling more and more like this. Originally, was of the opinion he couldn't play for us again but time fixes all things... But generally, I think it was more impossible to continue at United right away, but next summer I'm pretty confident he'll be brought back if good enough. And it's for the reasons you describe that I've changed my mind on it. Being shunned from your club, city and country and going through the last 18 months I'd say is a pretty big punishment in itself.
None of us know the full story, and it's unfair to jump to conclusions, and society just can't be run with the frame of mind that somebody who "might have" committed a crime but got away with it should then be shunned forever. It'd be one thing entirely if he wasn't with the girl anymore and she cut him out. The fact that they are happily together now with a child, where she's posting herself with a Getafe shirt and a Getafe jersey that says "Daddy #12" for the kid as well tells me they have very clearly moved past their issues, or at least are working on them together. And ultimately, she is the only one harmed by this. Nobody else. If she's forgiven him for whatever happened, or if they've gotten past it together, then everybody else really should move on with their lives.
It's actually a bit tedious seeing the constant outrage. Yes I know there is history of victims getting back with the abuser, but it's not an every case scenario at all, and that is severely jumping to conclusions by assuming that, just as it's jumping to conclusions to automatically believe he did nothing wrong. As a society, you just gotta give people a chance if they were ultimately not found guilty. Again, importantly, his partner gave him that chance. Nobody else matters in that story. So given that, people need to move on with their lives and let them live their life.
Well said
he has not been cleared of wrongdoing.
Or more accurately, there is no legal case against him and his club have made a statement absolving him of wrong doing. At that point, it simply becomes a private matter between the player and his partner and family, and by all accounts, they are backing him as well.
Feck that, people need to remember that violent images and audio exist connected to the case, that he never faced trial, that he was suspended for a very long time and that the player and the club failed in their response to the material, to their female fans and to charity partners they painted as hostile.
We also need to remember the rancid fans out in his defence, that have been threatening the women's team, attacking journalists and female celebrities and gleefully rubbing Greenwood's return in the faces of those concerned about violence against women, as they happily perpetuate their violent misogyny.
The club haven’t absolved him of wrongdoing.
Getafe are scum.
"Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged". It doesn't get any more unequivocal than this.
They could've said... "Based on the information available, our findings were inconclusive as to whether he committed the offenses for which he was originally charged".
After seeing far more evidence than anyone on this board was privvy to, the club instead opted for a hard no. At that point, its pretty much game over.
They didn't. Manchester United didn't come out and say/"paint" charity partners as hostile.
It was reportedly an internal model for the challenges of reintegrating the player with "hostile" being jargon for "against", which is pretty understandable. The model was never published. A journalist reported on the leaks they'd attained/what they heard.
How is that Manchester United painting charity partners as hostile?
Well put. I agree with all of what you say. My only disagreement is applying this to Mason. The victim chose to take down the damning evidence within hours (if not sooner) which really questions the mindset and motivation of the victim rather than exonerating Mason in any count. We heard what was in the tape, and his lack of contrition was damning. The club botched it up by looking at it only from a legal perspective and safeguarding their investments/interest rather than approaching it from a moral side and outright condemning such action. May be as you say there could have been legal implications if he was forced to downright accept his folly, still there was room for some form of roundabout honest apology which is sorely missing in his case.
Scum kits:
Seen it all, don't worry. I don't see how this excuses the club of intentionally inviting hatred by basically making fun of the situation and celebrating Greenwood's arrival like the way they have.
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Brilliant post.
Absolutely summarizes my own thoughts as well.
If they are happy together and he does well, I’m all for him returning to United as well.
I suppose the larger question is how you look at rehabilitation once someone did what he did. Most people here seem to believe a person deserves no second chance in life.
But I do believe you can coach and mentor a 20 year old boy to be a better person. I seriously hope he has learnt his lesson. The fact that the alleged victim is still by his side supporting him shows me there is still hope for him. He is hopefully doing something right to repair the relationship and be a more responsible partner and father.
If this 21 years old is a jobless thugs from some slump would you extend the same courtesy?
Plus he was given second chance. He's not jailed. His GF forgave him. He still got his job and his money. A luxury which many dont get if they're not good at only kickin a ball
Its not so easy for some to move on. The MG/Qatar-INEOS situations are very similar because of the personal role the club, Manchester United plays in their lives. (It would be different if you were supporting Grimsby etc.)
i) Some see United as a personal representation/projection of who they are. Personal identity.
Everyone likes to project themselves as the 'good guys' from religious folks; national identity to even ISIS.
So when they wear the jersey/badge or even wave a national flag -- it represents who they are or like the world to see them as.
ii) To some, it represents their life, history... family. A cumulation of years of supporting United in some way represents their life cycle/passage. It represents the connection to the past to your (grand) parents. And a sense of continuity. A sense of meaning.
iii) For some, it represents 'winning'. May not be winning as often in real life but you are projecting your need for 'winning' onto the club. I have seen a fan actually say '' My club is all about winning and winners. I am a winner.'' You are riding on the football club's silverware train to success and 'personal' success.
iv) The club can also be a personal immersive ''entertainment platform'' for some fans. Dont care about the stuff off the field. Living your life in United's. So with that winning and the joy of winning is all you care about. The club is that vehicle.
As in most things in life, it's Answer (E) -- all of the above and really not binary. Its an issue of proportions/percentages. That is why it's disingenuous to judge or slag off another for what they believe or were brought up on.
United means different things for different folks. That's why the Caf isn't so much an echo chamber -- it represents that diversity. What we do need is more self-awareness.
I think Fever Pitch captured a lot of what I mentioned above -- especially the connection with his dad.
But with one addition.
The protagonist basically didn't want to grow up. Football was the outsourced platform where he could live in a bubble where his entire life basically was based on Arsenal -- no need to take responsibility/consequences of real life.
And the great thing about being so immersed in football is there is always a re-start button in this 'life' unlike real life where it's basically a one-way street (to the grave.) Life begins in August (then) but in today's reality, it ends in May and begins again at the start of July with pre-season.
A reboot button of life. It may be a fantasy life or a respite for some.
But we all think if we immerse ourselves deep enough it could be real. And for many, if we are honest it's could actually better than our real lives.
Thus we are irrationally willing to get so involved/immersed; outraged, and elated about something that we have ZERO control over.
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Aptly put.
I think thats a flawed argument because a jobless thug would not have their face printed across every media publication in the country for years.
I didnt have an opinion on the Greenwood situation up until there was a baby involved. Having worked with children in the past one thing is for certain, it is often them who face the consequences of their parents actions, but for the child of a celebrity that also extends to the actions of the media/supporters etc. What annoys me is that now a baby has been relocated to a different country with a pair of 21 year old parents who are being targeted on social media. Even if a few family members relocate, the child will not have the support network they could have had.
On the balance of possibilities, it would have been better to bring back someone without charge and actually work with them and their young family, then send them to a foreign country.
He was at the club since he was 5, the club does have responsibility to an extent for his actions. We more or less influenced every part of his life over his formative years. So we need to extend the support network to his family and in this case that includes the alleged victim.
Also FYI, the same people who claim she has Stockholm syndrome are just as bad as those who claim the whole thing was a fetish. Both just as weird as each other.
the photo of the fan asking for his kit seemed like such an obvious photoshop, I am staggered that its actually realScum kits:
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