That training video reminds me of all these YouTube clips you see on here of players we are about to sign looking like world class superstars, who end up terrible.
Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player
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Whatever the girl did or not, the way Mason dehumanized her is absolutely despicable. She dropped the case, may be she wants his money and doesn't want to throw him under the bus as it would end everything for her. But that said, what she did or not do, Mason is absolutely terrible as a human. I would have bought his story of being young rash and stupid if he showed any form of remorse. He has shown nothing so far at least nothing public. No contrition, no regrets. He is not going to change. If he is not punished this will escalate. I don't want him anywhere near our team. Thank you.
There's just two options here.
1. The allegations are real.
2. The allegations are false.
If they are real (regardless of legal outcome) they shouldn't be together.
If they are false, then she purposefully tried to ruin his career/life, so they shouldn't be together.
Anything beyond that is just mad and weird, even with a children.
For what it's worth, the alleged 'ITKs' (i.e. people who apparently know the young woman and have shared stuff from whatsapp, in turn referenced/screen-shotted earlier in the thread by posters far more involved in this than I am) suggest this is pretty much what happened. The former accuser also suggested in part that these were the reasons for the materials appearing online in, i think, an instagram statement. Again, I haven't trawled back to see all the when and what.
This could all be a cover story to protect him for whatever reason, it could be partly true but with MG more overtly culpable, it could be completely true. The point is though, for the rest of us, it's speculation, all of it: the annoying thing in turn is that people who only have access to the 'official' public evidence feel like they can conclusively pronounce on it rather than acknowledging that we're all in the dark. Understandable cognitive bias around the release of images or photos doesn't add up to grounds for a legal judgement or excluding someone from work, especially when those who are privy to more of the details (i.e. senior management, the legal team, the CPS) have indicated that material was recontextualised by further evidence. Again, you can speculate as to what that evidence was, infer lots of things, but I'm not sure how the responsible position here isn't doubt rather than a pronouncement of guilt (or certainty around what the evidence is and how it stacks up; same goes for unequivocal innocence obviously).
The problem when people start referring in absolute terms to how 'trauma' victims behave or women' behave in DA cases, is that there'll always be someone with professional experience of working with victims and who has also seen/experienced cases where accusations were proved false or partially false, who will argue slightly differently. Again, that also goes for those saying that their reuniting proves his innocence, of course.
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Some would do well to read this.
I think the backlash would be too huge for them to even try it. You'd have a sizeable chunk of fans, MPs and the like all even more pissed because they'd deem Arnold to be U-turning on his promise to ship MG out.
Saying that, the Sun has been obsessively writing about MG's move to Getafe, putting a soft focus on it. Not sure if they're building him up to knock him down again or as a stick to beat United with.
I’m not pushing the morality aside at all, I said I don’t want him to play for us again. That’s the moral side of it.
If he does well on loan and we get a bigger fee, then that would be better for Manchester United football club.
Whatever she said to Greenwood when they're fighting, we will never know as well. Same thing.
For me, his punishment was the scrutiny, the scary thought of his life ended, the mental torture he has while in isolation period. That shit is tough to deal with.
People are labelling him as a terrible person, but yet we don't know what's really going on.
People can change when they're in the verge of losing their entire future.
I regretfully see a situation next summer after he has a good season and mounting pressure of him returning to the squad, which will then repeat the entire shitshow of this summer.
That's probably someting United should have arranged months ago if the intention was to reintegrate him into the squad this season.
I got the impression some variation of it was arranged a few weeks ago before the U-turn. Would've probably made more sense to do it after the FA Cup, but the club probably didn't want to have to deal with it during the US tour.
I’ve read a few things that suggest Greenwood hasn’t given up on his United career and the club are to consider a new contract to protect his value.
Ultimately I do feel that all options are still on the table and how this loan plays out both on and off the pitch will have some baring on that.
The statement from United was definitely not as definitive as it felt on first read. If anything if you read it back now, in the knowledge he’s left on loan, it’s quite carefully worded to allow the club to revisit matters at a later date.
I think this will rumble on.
Ultimately I do feel that all options are still on the table and how this loan plays out both on and off the pitch will have some baring on that.
The statement from United was definitely not as definitive as it felt on first read. If anything if you read it back now, in the knowledge he’s left on loan, it’s quite carefully worded to allow the club to revisit matters at a later date.
I think this will rumble on.
Getafe are being really weird about this with on their social media. Leaning into the controversy and acting like a 12 year old internet troll to get some 'engagement' and attention. Shitty club.
Shock horror! Journalist writes stories about an issue people might be interested in! That’s hardly the ‘gotcha’ you seem to think it is. Any online publication needs clicks to survive as a business, but that in itself is no reason to doubt the accuracy of their reports.
Accusing a journalist of not being ‘altruistic’ is such a weird criticism. Do you think United are being ‘altruistic’?
You are right in most counts, that we really don't know whats going on. And it can be both ways.
But Mason had a choice to put this to rest. I wish Mason came forward, admitted sincerely his mistakes and the club came out with a statement like this "Mason regrets his terrible actions and has openly admitted to making a big mistake in life. He understands the immense pain his words/actions might have caused his gf and all other women. He sincerely regrets his actions and wishes to turn a new leaf or given a second chance or something like that.. " and I so wish he did that.
It would have atleast made me comfortable looking at him in our red shirt. This whole thing was so botched up, I have lost all respect not just for him, but for our club management too. As a father of two daughters, my feelings around this incident is not at a good place.
13. ????
14. Profit
Can we all collectively agree that morality has left sports in general?
Sounds very reasonable based on the toxic relationships I know. If true though, they should do a public interview explaining what happened, acknowledging they both have a problem, and disclosing they are in therapy. Only way he can really come back without massive backlash.
Can we not just focus on Mason the footballer now? It’s done and dusted with the Club and I hope he does well at Getafe to revive his career. If he does that then I suspect we’ll have a line up clubs willing to take the controversy to bring him in, which should result in a good. I also have to give credit to the Getafe leadership for not falling into the controversy and releasing a strong statement that the allegations were settled. I wish our Club had shown that type of leadership whether it meant keeping or letting him go.
He was cancelled by the U.K public. He will never be redeemed by the mob. His time in UK is done. He will have a stellar career on the continent
I’m told it takes a lifetime
Yeah, I think it was also clear pretty early on that Crafton wasn't acting in good faith. Taking the stakeholder analysis that the club did (with the expected "hostile reception" from certain groups) out of context and blowing it up to be some sort of scandal was particularly egregious IMO.
It'll be funny if he ends up playing for England eventually.
The only issues (well, chief amongst them anyway) are the legal ramifications. Whether fully innocent of the formal charges or not, he has to be careful about the semantics. People already picked up on the 'case dismissed' rather than 'case not being taken forward' in his statement and criticised it on those grounds.
He has apologized, and in that apology you can 'read' or extrapolate from it apologies for all the non-criminal things which haven't been denied -from the training ground stuff to the adultery and toxicity and insults previously directed at his now fiancée. There have also been suggestions (again, I'm not ITK) from people allegedly close to them, that they would push each other and scuffle at times, even in public. Nevertheless, if this is true and he admits to it in his apology, it invites all kinds of follow-up questions which complicate the situation.
Again, we don't know whether it's all about protecting him or protecting them both at some level. I've read (from people quoting/screenshotting whatsapps and other social media from these alleged friends) that it's the latter, but that's irrelevant in terms of how the club should be expected to approach the issue even if there's an element of truth in it.
I've seen people defending Antony in comparison with MG on the grounds that Antony and his gf were known to fight, so by implication he was just defending himself. On problem is that there are similar 'itk' whispers about MG's domestic situation, which complicates the attempt to make Antony's case distinct. The larger issue though, is that regardless of whether there are reports of the female partner slapping or punching the accused footballer, an investigation into assault relating to the charges levelled against him still needs to be pursued.
In the Antony case, there are also messages where he apparently admits to committing physical assault and apologizes to his partner; its not as lurid as MG's tape but you could argue that it's even more damning insofar as we don't even have the 'roleplay' hypothesis or the possibility no physical contact took place following the conversation available. It was right that MG was suspended whilst being investigated, and Antony should similarly face suspension (as should have other footballers at certain other PL clubs, beyond Mendy) whilst an initial investigation take place on the part of the police.
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Agreed.
Well, im certain alot of despicable stuff happened in previous decades, but it was easier to hide it back then. Now, however, its easir to see how cynical the business is when things are easier to uncover. And how clubs act when its uncovered.
Players being scumbags is one thing, and hardly surprising. Then you have Newcastle owners involved in genocides and what not, and their fanbase is mostly turning a blind eye towards it. its seems rather easy to not care about stuff like this, especially when the crimes committed is happening in another country, in another part of the world, far away from your own reality.
feckin hell...
Only way Mason returns is if there a change in ownership and new leadership structure who can explain away the u-turn.
Apparently there's a January 2024 break clause in his loan deal.
Wonder who can enforce the break....
Wonder who can enforce the break....
But what about the audio clip we heard? That's hard to shake
But my question as well is why can't they clear the confusion and explain then? Now no legal case and no downside. People believe them then good for them, if not, no difference to now
Morality has left everything tbf
When has it ever been a part of it. Sport has always been about a physical transaction among athletes and an emotional transaction between athlete and fan.
The concept of ascribing morality to this process is relatively new and has yet to be embraced by a vast majority of fans who are largely interested in entertainment and the satisfaction of being a part of a winning side.
If they were going to do that right after the FA Cup would have been the perfect time. But like everything else the club do they dithered on it.
It left a long time ago. Cheating has been rampant in football on and off the pitch for decades and the players have no real moral compass, they're taught how to win football matches, but not how to interact with regular people on a day to day basis. Even cricket isn't safe these days, you've got the Aussies and their usual onfield shenanigans and then of course the much more serious issue of racism in English cricket.
One of the few genuine sporting gestures I remember seeing on a football pitch was Di Canio catching the ball when the opposition keeper was down injured(take note Arsenal) and that was a guy pushed over a referee and turned out to be a fascist. We shouldn't be idolising these people just because they're good at kicking a ball and they should be held to account for their actions and their views.
Unfortunately, expecting football clubs to take a moral stand is pretty laughable when you look at the way they operate. The only time they'll make a stand is if it is good for business or the brand.
It would be extra if he declined any call up whilst stellar elsewhere....
That's a very basic way of looking at it. The term sportsmanship has moral connotations. Most rules in sports are based on fairness and there are plenty of rituals and traditions in many sports pertaining to respecting the opponent and treating them fairly.
Most sports actually started as a form of leisure and entertainment and winning wasn't the be all and end all.
What happens outside the confines of the rules of these sports is another matter altogether, but morality has always been very much part of the sporting process.
No idea what you are on about with Gotcha's to be honest and I never said I doubted the accuracy of the information they leaked.
I think most journalists are out for themselves. But in this case Crofton has been held up as being some moral paragon for leaking that stuff and forcing the clubs hand. But as @Raoul pointed out he's also been leaning into that perception.
My point is he's not doing it because he thinks it's the right thing to do, neither is he doing it because he thinks it will help Mason repent/reform, nor for the benefit of the alleged victim or just for victims in general. You seem to agree so not sure what your point is.
And just incase you think I'm upset that it forced United to loan Greenwood out, I'm not. I don't think he should play for the club again and have done since last year.
If the club wanted him back, and were genuinely confident that it wouldn't blow up in their face (and I assume they are given how weirdly definitive Richard Arnold's statement was "the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts") it's not that hard. Something like:
First and foremost, I would like to acknowledge the emotions and concerns that many of you expressed around the Mason Greenwood situation last summer.
Your voices were heard and respected. As a result we made the difficult decision to allow Mason to leave on loan to Getafe. It was a challenging decision, but one we believed was in the best interests of the player, his family, the club and the fanbase in order to allow him the space and opportunity to reflect, grow, and - importantly - return to some form of normality.
During his loan spell, Mason performed exceptionally well, demonstrating not only his remarkable talent but also his commitment to personal growth and maturity.
Despite the tumultuous nature of an abrupt and unexpected move abroad with a young family, Mason and his fiancee demonstrated admirable resilience and a clear commitment to building a loving and stable home for their child. Manchester United worked closely with Mason and are proud of his achievements both on and off the field during this time.
As we move forward, we firmly believe in the power of second chances and personal redemption. Mason has taken positive steps to rebuild his life and relationships, and we believe in his ability to contribute positively to our club both on and off the pitch.
As such, we have decided to welcome Mason back to Manchester United etc etc
Your voices were heard and respected. As a result we made the difficult decision to allow Mason to leave on loan to Getafe. It was a challenging decision, but one we believed was in the best interests of the player, his family, the club and the fanbase in order to allow him the space and opportunity to reflect, grow, and - importantly - return to some form of normality.
During his loan spell, Mason performed exceptionally well, demonstrating not only his remarkable talent but also his commitment to personal growth and maturity.
Despite the tumultuous nature of an abrupt and unexpected move abroad with a young family, Mason and his fiancee demonstrated admirable resilience and a clear commitment to building a loving and stable home for their child. Manchester United worked closely with Mason and are proud of his achievements both on and off the field during this time.
As we move forward, we firmly believe in the power of second chances and personal redemption. Mason has taken positive steps to rebuild his life and relationships, and we believe in his ability to contribute positively to our club both on and off the pitch.
As such, we have decided to welcome Mason back to Manchester United etc etc
Not sure I'd call it the most logical explanation but something along these lines is certainly a possibility
There have been several signs pointing towards a 'toxic relationship' - likely he did something dodgy at some point though
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