Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

Status
Not open for further replies.
That's a very basic way of looking at it. The term sportsmanship has moral connotations. Most rules in sports are based on fairness and there are plenty of rituals and traditions in many sports pertaining to respecting the opponent and treating them fairly.

Most sports actually started as a form of leisure and entertainment and winning wasn't the be all and end all.

What happens outside the confines of the rules of these sports is another matter altogether, but morality has always been very much part of the sporting process.

Sports are based out of fairness not because of morality, but because of rules. That’s very different than the logic and sentiment being ascribed as to why Greenwood shouldn’t play for United.

If you want to know how much morality there is in sport look no further than how World Cups have been awarded, or going back a bit further when Nazi Germany hosted the Olympics and German officials thought it was unfair their sprinters had to compete against Jesse Owens because they likened him to a gazelle.

The more recent intense moral scrutiny is largely a manifestation of social media and how groups of fans tribalistically communicate with one another in binary terms.
 
If the club wanted him back, and were genuinely confident that it wouldn't blow up in their face (and I assume they are given how weirdly definitive Richard Arnold's statement was "the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts") it's not that hard. Something like:

First and foremost, I would like to acknowledge the emotions and concerns that many of you expressed around the Mason Greenwood situation last summer.

Your voices were heard and respected. As a result we made the difficult decision to allow Mason to leave on loan to Getafe. It was a challenging decision, but one we believed was in the best interests of the player, his family, the club and the fanbase in order to allow him the space and opportunity to reflect, grow, and - importantly - return to some form of normality.

During his loan spell, Mason performed exceptionally well, demonstrating not only his remarkable talent but also his commitment to personal growth and maturity.

Despite the tumultuous nature of an abrupt and unexpected move abroad with a young family, Mason and his fiancee demonstrated admirable resilience and a clear commitment to building a loving and stable home for their child. Manchester United worked closely with Mason and are proud of his achievements both on and off the field during this time.

As we move forward, we firmly believe in the power of second chances and personal redemption. Mason has taken positive steps to rebuild his life and relationships, and we believe in his ability to contribute positively to our club both on and off the pitch.

As such, we have decided to welcome Mason back to Manchester United etc etc
I could see this happening (if he indeed conducts himself there in the manner suggested by the statement), but I do also think it'll take at least one joint-interview where they confront and at least partially explain the circumstances under which the allegation came about. Might not be as necessary if he does well but is happy to stay at a lower-profile club... but to return to United (or move to one of the other megaclubs) and even with another 10-12 months and a fresh news cycle, I think it's going to take some additional PR work, as well as, obviously, no further cause for allegations to be levelled at him.
 
I reckon if Spanish fans take well to him then a bigger Spanish team like Madrid/Barca may come calling next year.

Extremely unlikely considering who they can pull, I reckon he'll have an ok season and be brought back, people talk about him in here like he was a Wayne Rooney level talent when he wasn't even better than Martial when he was playing.
 
No idea what you are on about with Gotcha's to be honest and I never said I doubted the accuracy of the information they leaked.

I think most journalists are out for themselves. But in this case Crofton has been held up as being some moral paragon for leaking that stuff and forcing the clubs hand. But as @Raoul pointed out he's also been leaning into that perception.

My point is he's not doing it because he thinks it's the right thing to do, neither is he doing it because he thinks it will help Mason repent/reform, nor for the benefit of the alleged victim or just for victims in general. You seem to agree so not sure what your point is.

And just incase you think I'm upset that it forced United to loan Greenwood out, I'm not. I don't think he should play for the club again and have done since last year.
This simply isn’t true, so this is just a (frankly bizarre) straw man argument. People, such as myself, value Crafton’s reporting during this debacle, but his ‘morality’ is completely irrelevant to me. Nobody is portraying him as a saint, they’re just glad he did his job.

And of all the people involved in this case, it’s the morality of the journalists who you have a big problem with? It’s such a weird argument it’s not even worth engaging with, to be honest. But I t does kind of show where you really stand on this issue.
 
Extremely unlikely considering who they can pull, I reckon he'll have an ok season and be brought back, people talk about him in here like he was a Wayne Rooney level talent when he wasn't even better than Martial when he was playing.

Wow I have ready some crazy things but this takes it. MG demonstrated more in his breakout season and subsequent one than Martial demonstrated in his entire time at United.

Martial is a passenger and permanent crock who sulks and moans and has had a couple of hot steaks before being injured again.

Now MG may not have been a Rooney level talent but he wasn’t far off certainly the most talented since Rooney I have seen and that includes players like Rashford. This is why there is such a fuss about him, if he was just a youth left back with importance United would have let him go and that is that.

The fact many valued him at over a £100million is why the club have been so reluctant to part ways even though it was the morally correct thing to do. Martial has never had that kind of valuation mentioned in the same sentence as his name.
 
Tragic situation all around, but looking at Getafe's twitter page is hilarious because of how shamelessly hard they're milking this. They're buzzing they've got what was once one of the most promising talents in European football.

I can imagine you questioning their twitter admin about all these posts and them going "yeah, you know, the game is the game"
 
If he scores 30 goals this season I absolutely promise you TalkSPORT and all the rest of it will be filled with calls to get him the England team. Football is football, at the end of the day people want to win.
 
Wow I have ready some crazy things but this takes it. MG demonstrated more in his breakout season and subsequent one than Martial demonstrated in his entire time at United.

Martial is a passenger and permanent crock who sulks and moans and has had a couple of hot steaks before being injured again.

Now MG may not have been a Rooney level talent but he wasn’t far off certainly the most talented since Rooney I have seen and that includes players like Rashford. This is why there is such a fuss about him, if he was just a youth left back with importance United would have let him go and that is that.

The fact many valued him at over a £100million is why the club have been so reluctant to part ways even though it was the morally correct thing to do. Martial has never had that kind of valuation mentioned in the same sentence as his name.

Martial was mint in Greenwood's last full season, I agree that he was a better talent than Rashford but only people in here were labeling him a 100m player, those type of players are already starting week in week out for top flight clubs.
 
If he scores 30 goals this season I absolutely promise you TalkSPORT and all the rest of it will be filled with calls to get him the England team. Football is football, at the end of the day people want to win.
Posters like yourself would have him back in ours and the England team now. What's your point?
 
Extremely unlikely considering who they can pull, I reckon he'll have an ok season and be brought back, people talk about him in here like he was a Wayne Rooney level talent when he wasn't even better than Martial when he was playing.
Wasn’t better than Martial? :lol: What are you on? The guy has done more in 2 games then what Martial has done in a season. Was the best finisher at the club and put a lot more effort in than people like Martial. Either you was being sarcastic or you’ve truly forgot what he was like.
 
Yes probably rape and domestic violence victims. But you wallow in their misery if that's your thing. Your posts are fecking awful.
His must be the most fitting tagline here.
 
Extremely unlikely considering who they can pull, I reckon he'll have an ok season and be brought back, people talk about him in here like he was a Wayne Rooney level talent when he wasn't even better than Martial when he was playing.

Are you serious - he was an incredible talent. Way above Martial.
 
If he scores 30 goals this season I absolutely promise you TalkSPORT and all the rest of it will be filled with calls to get him the England team. Football is football, at the end of the day people want to win.
Let me know how much the call costs you, so I can have a chuckle.
 
If he scores 30 goals this season I absolutely promise you TalkSPORT and all the rest of it will be filled with calls to get him the England team. Football is football, at the end of the day people want to win.
And some have the moral fortitude not to be willing to do so at any cost.
 
Martial was mint in Greenwood's last full season, I agree that he was a better talent than Rashford but only people in here were labeling him a 100m player, those type of players are already starting week in week out for top flight clubs.

Martial hasn't been good in 5 years, which is the last time he got double digit goals in a year. Greenwood scored more goals than Martial during his last full season.
 
He has apologized
Can you share this? Are you talking about the anybody-could-type apology 'statement' his team issues on his behalf? Or is there a video statement I am not aware of?

I understand not judging somebody without knowing the details and media-lynching them without facts. But Mason Greenwood did something despicable and there is physical evidence for it. If he does a recorded video or comes online to issue a genuine statement of regret/apology it will put this whole sordid thing to rest. The reason I am stating this is, for disingenuous liars, coming in front of camera and sharing their emotion about any incident will be far more revealing (cue the 'smile' from a recent primary). Mason owes this to the badge and to the fans. Giggs/Ronaldo/Mason now Antony and this needs to stop. They must be held accountable. The Getafe idiots have made this worse by cashing into the situation.
 
Crofton has been milking this as a vehicle for professional aggrandizement for weeks. In the beginning, his initial piece discussing United's plans to reincorporate the player was pretty good. Since then, its been a lot of "hey look at me, I'm relevant and the only one you should listen to".

As for the player, I expect him to do well. He's been away from the game, but given how young he is, I don't see any reason why after an initial period of getting used to his surroundings, he won't resume knocking in goals - especially given La Liga's reputation on defending.

I am not the only one who felt this after all! He also seemed to state a lot of his assumptions in a manner that felt as if he is stating facts, which made me think he was purposefully adding spice to the story out of spite when United did not respond to him exclusively.
 
It is yes.

It's on twitter but I didn't feel it necessary to post it here. Just a pic with her smiling in a Getafe shirt in the stadium and a little kit with Daddy 12 on the back.

The PR team working hard then. Just like when they photographed him in training whilst a member of staff held his baby.

It's almost certainly staged.
 
This simply isn’t true, so this is just a (frankly bizarre) straw man argument. People, such as myself, value Crafton’s reporting during this debacle, but his ‘morality’ is completely irrelevant to me. Nobody is portraying him as a saint, they’re just glad he did his job.

Sure just speak for everyone. :lol:

And of all the people involved in this case, it’s the morality of the journalists who you have a big problem with? It’s such a weird argument it’s not even worth engaging with, to be honest. But I t does kind of show where you really stand on this issue.

I genuinely don't know if you're actually reading my posts mate. It is weird I agree, it's weird that you've read my post and then reply as if you've read a completely different one.

My problem is not the morals of a journalist. My point for the 3rd time was a journalist using an issue like this for his own benefit while portraying himself as being altruistic.

But I t does kind of show where you really stand on this issue.

A mind reader as well, quite impressive. So where so I really stand then Professor X?

I've said from the start I don't think he should play for the club again.
 
Posters like yourself would have him back in ours and the England team now. What's your point?

I've been extremely vocal about not supporting United anymore if he was brought back up until learning that there was a child expected and they were together as a couple again. The charges being dropped is moot. My outrage was mainly to be supportive of the victim. At this point it's such a gray and murky area to pass judgment and opinion. From the outsider perspective the best thing for her and child would be MG getting therapy, rehab and becoming a better human. Under those circumstances should I be as immovable in my stance were United to bring him back? Could we ever really know?

It is not wrong to have an opinion and change it in this case. But ideally we don't need to revisit it at all
 
Martial hasn't been good in 5 years, which is the last time he got double digit goals in a year. Greenwood scored more goals than Martial during his last full season.

Greenwood had one good season in 19/20 then failed to capitalize on a club that has needed a striker badly for damn near a decade now, stop with the 100m bullshit that's for talents that are proven goalscorers not players that were barely as good as Martial.

Martial was very good himself during Greenwood's best season in 19/20 and once upon a time Martial was seen by many as potentially a future 100m player himself.
 
Greenwood had one good season in 19/20 then failed to capitalize on a club that has needed a striker badly for damn near a decade now, stop with the 100m bullshit that's for talents that are proven goalscorers not players that were barely as good as Martial.

Martial was very good himself during Greenwood's best season in 19/20 and once upon a time Martial was seen by many as potentially a future 100m player himself.

Greenwood scored twice the amount of goals the year after the one you claim was his best season. Martial has 18 goals over the past 4 years, which includes his loan at Sevilla. Injuries aside, he has simply not been good enough.
 
Greenwood had one good season in 19/20 then failed to capitalize on a club that has needed a striker badly for damn near a decade now, stop with the 100m bullshit that's for talents that are proven goalscorers not players that were barely as good as Martial.

Martial was very good himself during Greenwood's best season in 19/20 and once upon a time Martial was seen by many as potentially a future 100m player himself.

Moises Caicedo is a 100m player brother. It’s not the 90s anymore
 
Greenwood had one good season in 19/20 then failed to capitalize on a club that has needed a striker badly for damn near a decade now, stop with the 100m bullshit that's for talents that are proven goalscorers not players that were barely as good as Martial.

Martial was very good himself during Greenwood's best season in 19/20 and once upon a time Martial was seen by many as potentially a future 100m player himself.

Greenwood is a top player and has been great for us since he broke into the first team let’s not try and downplay it. Even in his last season before the arrest he had 6 goals in 18 league games playing off the right side. He hasn’t played for 18 months and is still only 21 his performances at United was that of a 18/19 year old he was easily one of the highest talents in Europe

Dont even get me started on Martial he’s fecking crap. Why do people still try and defend him?
 
Last edited:
A dickhead for having a different opinion to you? Chill out man.
It’s always the same with these people. They cannot handle different points of view, a view that the club and our manager share.
 
Its almost as Greenwood has personally caused harm to some here judging by their reaction to the news of his comeback. You people need to let this one go now, the woman you people are championing for is cheering for him in the stands and posting it on instagram. They have moved on and it would be good if some of you move on as well or find a new target to outrage on.

We should allow second chance for 21 year old person who is not even convicted of any crime and our own investigation clears him of any wrongdoing. Its clear they are happy and trying to rebuild their lives.
 
It’s always the same with these people. They cannot handle different points of view, a view that the club and our manager share.
The club have sent him packing. We have no idea what the manager thinks.
 
Can you share this? Are you talking about the anybody-could-type apology 'statement' his team issues on his behalf? Or is there a video statement I am not aware of?

I understand not judging somebody without knowing the details and media-lynching them without facts. But Mason Greenwood did something despicable and there is physical evidence for it. If he does a recorded video or comes online to issue a genuine statement of regret/apology it will put this whole sordid thing to rest. The reason I am stating this is, for disingenuous liars, coming in front of camera and sharing their emotion about any incident will be far more revealing (cue the 'smile' from a recent primary). Mason owes this to the badge and to the fans. Giggs/Ronaldo/Mason now Antony and this needs to stop. They must be held accountable. The Getafe idiots have made this worse by cashing into the situation.
They haven't put Mason Greenwood in front of a camera and had him do an extended apology, no. Again, I'm not even saying this was the right course of action, but there are innumerable potential reasons for this.

My issue is that, based I'm sure on the initial evidence and in many cases with genuine anger, people are not only not allowing the possibility for different interpretations of the evidence to have become available, but also consequently seeing everything (from the investigation and its outcome to PR strategies) through this lens of the most cynical cover-up. Hence I'm curious, what do you, and others taking a similar line, perceive to be unimpeachable evidence that he carried out the physical assault initially alleged? Because that's different to 'could he still hypothetically have committed the offence' despite new evidence emerging to indicate the contrary that we're not privy to. My position since the investigation was concluded was that indeed it could be a whitewash -and I certainly have no great faith in the moral integrity of the club - but that given (a) the severity of the initial evidence and of the alleged crime (b) the reference to both a witness withdrawing and to new evidence emerging, and (c) two investigations deeming the evidence for his guilt to be insuffiicent and/or cancelled out by counter-evidence of a nature not made clear to us, I have to take a 'not proven' line and await any new developments or statements.

I don't believe in recourse to authority or anything, plus I'm neither a lawyer nor a psychologist specializing in these issues ( which puts me in a weak position in approaching aspects of this case), but I have worked in social services with victims of abuse and with people who were judged to have been falsely accused - I've seen evidence of how abuse affects people, and I've also seen how messy and ambiguous relationships can get, even before we get to salacious celebrity trials like Depp etc. I don't presume anything either way, I've just seen enough to be open to various possibilities. I also served on the jury of a similar case to this between two young former partners, where the physical evidence was quite slender (certainly no visual material of the same nature, or recordings) in comparison with what has been offered to the public, and where the chief witness/alleged victim was also reluctant to testify; again, one can't completely generalize, but I do know that if it's deemed in the public interest then the PS will take a case forward, and it's likely (though, again, not guaranteed) that they would need something more than a reluctance to testify or an indication that the accuser changed their mind for this to happen. Bear in mind that the accuser indicated a wish to withdraw the case months before the CPS dropped it -it was only, as we have been led to understand, new evidence in addition that saw the PS re-evaluate.

The club will also have examined the defence case for potential holes and potential blowback, including the possibility that the lead witness could revive their accusation (at least in the public sphere) if the relationship went wrong: it may sound callous but it's due diligence. They would want a reasonably comprehensive explanation as to how all those materials came to be, what were the conditions of their creation. Again, what they were provided with is not clear, but in terms of the CPS materials, I've seen indications that this included a longer-version of the tape. In terms of the images, the former accuser indicated on social media that these were mocked up - again, this could be a cover, it could be true, neither is technically implausible purely in terms of 'make-up'. It's possible there is a middle-ground, i.e a mutual fight accounting for the arm bruises, which were then 'touched up along with applying something to the face: again, that wouldn't paint MG in a good light as a young, physically strong male, so its not a defence of his 'good character'. Indeed, I've said before that there are plenty of reasons made public and not denied in the same way these allegations have been, either by club or player, why he should be contrite and have to demonstrate evidence of this through monitored conduct (or non-criminal 'probation') and perhaps charity work/volunteering of some sort, in addition to getting therapy.

All I'm saying is that it's not constructive to begin with the premise that he has been found guilty of these acts or that, without access to the information available only to a select few people, to maintain that he was de facto guilty. If the club believed he was escaping merely on a technicality, the probability (again, I'm not saying this definitively, because who knows with them), upon advice from actual lawyers, would be to find a way of cancelling his contract. Not for moral reasons, but around potential blowback.
 
And some have the moral fortitude not to be willing to do so at any cost.

Like who? It has been shown that football sold out to its morals long ago. Just look at how many fans are willing to accept owners that are mega rich with blood money. Look at how many players are moving to Saudi, ignoring all the human rights issues etc as long as they are paid enough.
 
The club have sent him packing. We have no idea what the manager thinks.

He wanted him back I think. It was all set for Mason to be playing this season before the uproar and Arnold backtracking, the manager would have surely been consulted on him joining the squad

I wonder how the club will respond if he smashes it at Getafe whilst posting happy time pictures with his family all year
 
Oh look, his football career isn’t completely over as people were crying about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.