[SteveW]

Really shows the hysteria for him and Gomes to play and start so early in the season was misplaced.

I really hope the overhyping of our youngsters stops, because the flip side of it is skepticism and anger when they don't live up to the ridiculous hype levels.

Not sure where that's coming from. Lingard, Mata and Pereira had a heap of games where they did absolutely nothing and we struggled. Gomes is someone who can provide magic. His goal the other day for the u23s was sublime for example. People will always want to see youngsters like that get chances. Especially when those ahead of them are playing so badly.

Chong is pretty average but none of the other kids have left themselves down when called upon this season imo. Gomes and Garner have shown plenty of promise in the very few minutes they've got. Greenwood has won a couple of cup games for us and Williams was MOM the other day.

That's pretty good progression as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Stacks]

I don't disagree with giving them chances, I disagree with the hysteria and the overhyping. Men's football is totally different from the youth's, so their performances there shouldn't be compared against our senior players' performances.


People were expecting Gomes to come in and solve our AM issues and for Greenwood to be a perfectly fine 2nd choice striker, all based on youth football; then they would start complaining when OGS left them out or didn't start them in games. That doesn't make sense to me.

I agree with every single word. All clubs fans hype academy prospects because they are exciting. Who wouldn't? The reality is most don't make it at the club's they performed so well in the youths for. Even the likes of Pogba Ravel Januzaj and Rossi didn't manage to break into our team although one we could argue should have. The main thing is youth football is a far cry from jumping to the 1st team at a team as big as United so I am old-school in believing in the loan method. Loan deals allow players to build up confidence and getting used to being a main man but under slightly less scrutiny. Kane went, Defoe went, Lingard went. That said it's hard to judge on such brief cameos as he is only given the minimalist opps

 

[ash_86]

Why a loan when he can get plenty of game time here right now.

I don't know why i feel that way. We are very shaky at the moment dangling between good and meh each week. Also there is too much pressure for him i feel. A good loan at a more forgiving place may help him a lot.

 

[Shimo]

Don't watch youth, so my only reference is games he's played for the senior team. As far as this season goes, I can see him having "Macheda" type moments if he gets the ball in and around the box. Outside of that, see him as a liability. He doesn't really hold up the ball and not seen him really go at players, past them or link up well.

He definitely needs a loan in January I think if he is too good for the U23s and if we can get another striker in as a backup. Just not ready for our senior side yet, even as a sub.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Not sure where that's coming from. Lingard, Mata and Pereira had a heap of games where they did absolutely nothing and we struggled. Gomes is someone who can provide magic. His goal the other day for the u23s was sublime for example. People will always want to see youngsters like that get chances. Especially when those ahead of them are playing so badly.

Chong is pretty average but none of the other kids have left themselves down when called upon this season imo. Gomes and Garner have shown plenty of promise in the very few minutes they've got. Greenwood has won a couple of cup games for us and Williams was MOM the other day.

That's pretty good progression as far as I'm concerned.

The thing with Lingard, Mata, and co. is that even if they play shite and are abused there's nothing at stake. For youngsters like Greenwood, Gomes, Chong, etc, their development could be negatively affected. With us being in such poor form, playing them carries a significant risk, should they not hit the ground running.


That's why I said previously I don't mind giving them opportunities, but I'm against the overhyping and hysteria because that's almost never good for their development, and doesn't make sense anyway.

 

[BlueHaze]

Don't watch youth, so my only reference is games he's played for the senior team. As far as this season goes, I can see him having "Macheda" type moments if he gets the ball in and around the box. Outside of that, see him as a liability. He doesn't really hold up the ball and not seen him really go at players, past them or link up well.

He definitely needs a loan in January I think if he is too good for the U23s and if we can get another striker in as a backup. Just not ready for our senior side yet, even as a sub.

I agree about loaning him out but at the same time just one goal for the first team could make a big difference with confidence and all that. With our current squad I think he could still become useful.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I don't know why i feel that way. We are very shaky at the moment dangling between good and meh each week. Also there is too much pressure for him i feel. A good loan at a more forgiving place may help him a lot.

There is no such a thing called forgiving place if he's going to be a regular in that team, the burden is even bigger since the club will expect him to perform as an attacker. While in here, he's not a regular player. Martial & Rashford are taking off his burden.

 

[Member 105568]

I think a loan might not work out. He’d be better getting minutes in the EPL and cup games and hopefully scoring a few more goals for United maybe. Then look if a loan might be an option for next season.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Why the feck would we loan him? He should 100% stay and get minutes coming on as a sub in the league and Europa League. There's no better time as a United youngster to stay at the club.

 

[Adam-Utd]

It's hard coming into a match with 10 minutes to go and get firing on all cylinders, especially at PL level when the pace is frantic.

He obviously needs to work on his hold up play but that'll come when fills out a bit.

On the plus side he still nearly (should have) scored, he just has the natural habit of pulling into the right space.

He's only just turned 18, let's have some patience shall we?

 

[SteveW]

The thing with Lingard, Mata, and co. is that even if they play shite and are abused there's nothing at stake. For youngsters like Greenwood, Gomes, Chong, etc, their development could be negatively affected. With us being in such poor form, playing them carries a significant risk, should they not hit the ground running.


That's why I said previously I don't mind giving them opportunities, but I'm against the overhyping and hysteria because that's almost never good for their development, and doesn't make sense anyway.

I don't believe in that kind of fragility. Don't play them every week if their bodies aren't ready to deal with it, don't be overreliant on them and don't expect them to lead the older players. But other than that I think players need to be challenged and will benefit much more from playing first team football than from not playing. They need to learn to handle the big stages. Those with the right mentalities can handle it.

 

[He'sRaldo]

I don't believe in that kind of fragility. Don't play them every week if their bodies aren't ready to deal with it, don't be overreliant on them and don't expect them to lead the older players. But other than that I think players need to be challenged and will benefit much more from playing first team football than from not playing. They need to learn to handle the big stages. Those with the right mentalities can handle it.

These are kids you're talking about, writing them off at such young ages due to mentality isn't smart. They need protection regardless of their mental strength.

And besides, it doesn't even have to be about mentality necessarily. It could be about changing their playstyle to cope with the very high level of the league, or playing out of position regularly just to get into the team. Things like that IMO can affect their career negatively.

 

[ash_86]

There is no such a thing called forgiving place if he's going to be a regular in that team, the burden is even bigger since the club will expect him to perform as an attacker. While in here, he's not a regular player. Martial & Rashford are taking off his burden.

There are levels of pressure though. At United its at the greatest and in some other places it's moderate. That's what I'm getting at. He's 18 now and needs to play regularly and also allowed to make mistakes. Our twitter army is quite vile and can turn quickly.

 

[SteveW]

These are kids you're talking about, writing them off at such young ages due to mentality isn't smart. They need protection regardless of their mental strength.

And besides, it doesn't even have to be about mentality necessarily. It could be about changing their effective playstyle to cope with the very high level of the league, or playing out of position regularly just to get into the team. Things like that IMO can affect their career negatively.

They're adults. They're old enough to go to war. They can handle a game of football. Every player is different and it makes sense to pick and choose the right moments depending on the person but this idea that losing a coupe of games would damage their careers in the long term is a bit fecking weak tbh.

Nobody is saying put them in if they are physically not ready or purposely playing them in a position they can't handle. But I wouldn't go playing the likes of Mata every week for the sake of protecting these kids. We gain much more by playing Garner or Gomes than playing someone like Mata. They are good players and well able for it.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

There are levels of pressure though. At United its at the greatest and in some other places it's moderate. That's what I'm getting at. He's 18 now and needs to play regularly and also allowed to make mistakes. Our twitter army is quite vile and can turn quickly.

There are two players ahead of him taking that pressure.

 

[caid]

It's hard coming into a match with 10 minutes to go and get firing on all cylinders, especially at PL level when the pace is frantic.

He obviously needs to work on his hold up play but that'll come when fills out a bit.

On the plus side he still nearly (should have) scored, he just has the natural habit of pulling into the right space.

He's only just turned 18, let's have some patience shall we?

He does, he gets chances most games he's played. He's not banging them in from 20 yards every time but its encouraging that hes getting shots on goal. Keep it up and a few goals will come his way

 

[In Rainbows]

Rashford broke through at 18 and wasn't as hyped but took to 1st team football like magic. It's probably because Rashford is a natural Athlete and is a bit tricky so can rely on this until his other sides develop. Mason just needs 1st team experience that's why I am keen on a loan. Not 15 mins here and there but 70 mins, 80 mins etc.

Rashford broke through at age 18 and like 4 months. So Greenwood is younger than that 18 year old Rashford. And even if Greenwood doesn't take to first team football as well as Rashford did initially, doesn't mean that Greenwood can't eventually do better as he is more talented.

Really shows the hysteria for him and Gomes to play and start so early in the season was misplaced.

I really hope the overhyping of our youngsters stops, because the flip side of it is skepticism and anger when they don't live up to the ridiculous hype levels.

You're assuming the people that want those kids to play, to also be the ones criticizing their future at the club after a bad performance. There's a lot of fans on here who do that, but don't watch the kids.

I think the argument is that we want those kids to get playing time when the seniors aren't really doing anything to deserve the kids not getting any game time. Not everyone thinks they're going to just dominate from the very first minute. People are thinking long term and want them to get minutes to help their development.

Mengi and Devine will both get a shot, IMO. Wouldn’t be shocked to see us give Ramazani a go at some point too considering how far he’s come in a year. Whether they’re good enough to make it is a different story though.

Think that's way too much. Devine really has done nothing to suggest he deserves a shot. Compare him to Williams who had a year's worth of great performances last year, and has done well this season. If someone like Gomes is barely getting game time, how is Ramazani going to get it when he's not close to the prospect Gomes is both in terms of talent or youth performances? Really, the only ones I'm expecting are Greenwood, Gomes, Garner, Chong, Williams, Laird, and Levitt. Everyone else has far more to prove before getting a chance before those listed.

 

[khoazany]

He is still eligible for U18s football and people think we should loan him.

Have some patience. He's just turned 18 THIS Month.

 

[He'sRaldo]

You're assuming the people that want those kids to play, to also be the ones criticizing their future at the club after a bad performance. There's a lot of fans on here who do that, but don't watch the kids.

Not exactly. I'm saying that those who want them to play should understand why Ole might sometimes keep them out, instead of being hysterical about it. The treatment they may get from those who criticize their future may not be worth having them start games right now.

I think the argument is that we want those kids to get playing time when the seniors aren't really doing anything to deserve the kids not getting any game time. Not everyone thinks they're going to just dominate from the very first minute. People are thinking long term and want them to get minutes to help their development.

I agree, which is why I'm also advocating consideration regarding introducing them. Even if they're currently good enough, for whatever reason they're not starting and I assume it's for the best in their development. Which is why I'm against hysteria for them to start.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I think a loan might not work out. He’d be better getting minutes in the EPL and cup games and hopefully scoring a few more goals for United maybe. Then look if a loan might be an option for next season.

No it isn’t an option. Unless we don’t want to have any backup striker in the squad.

 

[MikeKing]

He is the sort of 18 year old player that numbnuts will doubt while his body still growing, then he'll pop up out of nowhere to score the first hattrick for our first team in like 5 years. Then he'll be on roughly the same goals as Rashford and the numbs'll go nuts again.

 

[eire-red]

Well if one cannot handle the physicality of the championship or league one then you'll have fat chance at the highest level. You think defenders aren't rough in the top division? They are physical, but also faster, stronger, smarter and technically better than lower leagues. I am keen on him having a loan but maybe when he is 19/20. Let him ply his trade a bit more in the youths or maybe a loan to Holland or something. There is no actual rush and many can see the difference between playing under 21's and 1st team is chalk and cheese so the hysteria that "Mason must play" and that he is "deffo gonna be better than Rashford" or "signing another forward will block his path" has quietened down a bit as the levels required is much much higher than what he has ever required so we must let him gain his apprenticeship the normal way and not rush.

Never said defenders in Championship and League 1 are stronger than in the PL. The lad has literally just turned 18, of course he's not physically ready to play with grown men. Some players are more physically advanced than others, some aren't. What I'm saying is that if he's not physically ready to play in the Prem, then he wouldn't be for the Championship either and loaning him out might do more harm than good.

 

[Stacks]

Never said defenders in Championship and League 1 are stronger than in the PL. The lad has literally just turned 18, of course he's not physically ready to play with grown men. Some players are more physically advanced than others, some aren't. What I'm saying is that if he's not physically ready to play in the Prem, then he wouldn't be for the Championship either and loaning him out might do more harm than good.

I get what you are saying and maybe he is not physically ready. It is possible that his movement and intelligence could get him away from defenders. that said it is possible that more time in the reserves could be the best steps and

 

[Member 105568]

No it isn’t an option. Unless we don’t want to have any backup striker in the squad.

Read my post, I was hardly advocating a loan, certainly not this season at least.

 

[11101]

I disagree with this.

Certain young players will have an instant impact due to being very fast and explosive. This may last a couple of years and then deficiencies in their game will begin to show.

Greenwood might be a bit of a slower boil but he has all the attributes to be a top, top player for the next decade.

More steak, less sizzle.

He has the attributes to be a great player but the more games he plays in the league without really doing anything, the harder its going to get. Even seasoned pros struggle with goal droughts. Can an 18 year old handle that pressure?

I know we're not really in a position to choose, but he should be getting most of his minutes in the cups. That's unsurprisingly where he has looked most dangerous. Bringing him on for 20 minutes every weekend isn't going to do him much good.

 

[MrBest]

Has played 10 games so far, just turned 18. That is a pretty good development plan. I would expect him to feature in 30 plus games this season which would be much better experience than going on loan. Chong and Gomes need a loan much more.

 

[Bebestation]

He has the attributes to be a great player but the more games he plays in the league without really doing anything, the harder its going to get. Even seasoned pros struggle with goal droughts. Can an 18 year old handle that pressure?

I know we're not really in a position to choose, but he should be getting most of his minutes in the cups. That's unsurprisingly where he has looked most dangerous. Bringing him on for 20 minutes every weekend isn't going to do him much good.

To be honest - we have seen how Rashford has struggled without the likes of Pogba and especially Martial.

Greenwood as a RW is going to struggle just as much as Rashford or more without playing with the best United players available because ultimately when they are available the drop in quality is very telling on our capability to play football.

Rashford - Martial - Greenwood

You stick those 3 out & you give the symmetry of an attack to help everyone to stretch the defence on our side aswell as have an ability to create chances within themselves when coming in due to the way they would cut in on their stronger foot and how Martial can link both these guys together from deep.

Greenwood hasn't been given the best United team to play with yet & that's more telling to me than any of his actual personal performances.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Read my post, I was hardly advocating a loan, certainly not this season at least.

My bad, have a quick glance in the morning, reply without reading.

 

[DVG7]

I have so much confidence in Greenwood that i'll actually be really annoyed if we send him on loan.

Yes, its mostly youth team football where he has shown his prowess, but the goals are the same size and the technique he uses to finish is the same on a training pitch at Carrington as it is at Old Trafford. The kid just has a knack for finishing, with either foot, and with it looking likely that we are leaning towards a system that will create more opportunities, it's going to be pretty commonplace for him to get 4 or 5 chances in a game (maybe 2 or 3 if he comes off the bench) and i'd be pretty confident that he'll bury a lot of those.

It almost feels uneasy putting so much expectation on a kid his age but its a consequence of his performances, where he stood out in almost every game he played for the academy. So long as things don't go to his head, there's just no reason to suspect anything other than him going on to become a brilliant forward player, and I don't see the need to send him away from the club in order to help make that happy.

I think if you have Martial, Rashford, Greenwood and then an experienced striker who's happy to play limited minutes but offer invaluable resource advice on the training pitch, then our attacking options at the club are in a great place.We definitely need another striker, sending Greenwood on loan would mean we would then need two.

 

[Stacks]

Never said defenders in Championship and League 1 are stronger than in the PL. The lad has literally just turned 18, of course he's not physically ready to play with grown men. Some players are more physically advanced than others, some aren't. What I'm saying is that if he's not physically ready to play in the Prem, then he wouldn't be for the Championship either and loaning him out might do more harm than good.

Jermaine Defoe went on loan to Bournemouth at 17 and broke Aldridge's British goal scoring record. He was 5"6! Stop making them out as if they are babies. When we played in the cup vs Rochdale, their FB was like 16. Still doing GCSE's. He was tiny. You can definitely by physically ready at 18 to play with grown men. Depends on the player and his adaptability as well as mentality and intelligence. It's not necessarily their age and the fact he has already scored a couple goals against men then I don't see why he cannot play with grown men

 

[settembrini]

Very nice last minute winner against Doncaster tonight.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

That will be great for his confidence. I think it was knocked a bit recently.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

Greenwood's goal against Doncaster on 94th minute. United only needed a draw to go through as group leaders. Most forwards would've taken it to the corner to waste time. Greenwood wanted that goal.

 

[Stojan Stamenic]

Played very bad before Doncaster scored first goal of the match. Then he showed character, started to move better without a ball, made some good runs from the right side - and the goal was brilliant.

Obvious problem now is his game in duels, needs to get some muscles. Bigger problem is his positioning, often loses focus in defense, misses chances to lead some good counters...

 

[11101]

Jermaine Defoe went on loan to Bournemouth at 17 and broke Aldridge's British goal scoring record. He was 5"6! Stop making them out as if they are babies. When we played in the cup vs Rochdale, their FB was like 16. Still doing GCSE's. He was tiny. You can definitely by physically ready at 18 to play with grown men. Depends on the player and his adaptability as well as mentality and intelligence. It's not necessarily their age and the fact he has already scored a couple goals against men then I don't see why he cannot play with grown men

Agreed, age has little to do with it. Players younger than him burst onto the scene and score goals at the very top level. If he's good enough he will make it work.

Far more important than how young/physically ready he is, is how quickly he progresses now he's become a first team regular. Some players start slow, but almost every great striker was scoring big numbers within 2 or 3 years of breaking through into the first team in a major league. Greenwood is on year 1.

 

[Devil81]

Doubt he will be in the squad for tonight's game now then which would suggest a strong starting eleven.

 

[bosnian_red]

Agreed, age has little to do with it. Players younger than him burst onto the scene and score goals at the very top level. If he's good enough he will make it work.

Far more important than how young/physically ready he is, is how quickly he progresses now he's become a first team regular. Some players start slow, but almost every great striker was scoring big numbers within 2 or 3 years of breaking through into the first team in a major league. Greenwood is on year 1.

Plenty great strikers didn't explode til their early/mid 20's. I'd say the vast majority didn't actually. Look at RvP for example. Before like 25/26 he didnt exactly do much.

 

[Cutch]

Greenwood's goal against Doncaster on 94th minute. United only needed a draw to go through as group leaders. Most forwards would've taken it to the corner to waste time. Greenwood wanted that goal.

Good goal but what a horrific commentator Stewart Gardner is

 

[roonster09]

Plenty great strikers didn't explode til their early/mid 20's. I'd say the vast majority didn't actually. Look at RvP for example. Before like 25/26 he didnt exactly do much.

Exactly. Most of the great players weren't prolific scorers from the young age. They all showed glimpses of their talent and improved with experience.

 

[11101]

Plenty great strikers didn't explode til their early/mid 20's. I'd say the vast majority didn't actually. Look at RvP for example. Before like 25/26 he didnt exactly do much.

He wasn't playing centre forward before that age, that's why.

It's time in the position, not simply age, that defines them.