[Raven]

Martial doesn't score every type of goal. He may score the odd header or sweeping finish but not consistently.
Im also not expecting Greenwood to do what Martial does. Im expecting him to punch in goals in the space between defenders and midfielders as theyre backing up into their own box using the space that Rashford and Sancho provides.
Im expecting the best finisher in the club to get on the end of the many chances that the attackers will provide next season.
Im also not saying it will happen tomorrow

Ahh I see, you're underrating Martial not overrating Greenwood. Without Martial, our wingers wouldn't get on the ball anywhere near as much. I'm not saying Greenwood will never replace him but to say it will happen within 8 months seems like lunacy to me.

 

[Cassidy]

Martial doesn't score every type of goal. He may score the odd header or sweeping finish but not consistently.
Im also not expecting Greenwood to do what Martial does. Im expecting him to punch in goals in the space between defenders and midfielders as theyre backing up into their own box using the space that Rashford and Sancho provides.
Im expecting the best finisher in the club to get on the end of the many chances that the attackers will provide next season.
Im also not saying it will happen tomorrow

Because we actually do not have actual wingers at the club yet... Martial will score more or those goals with Sancho around
Right now Martial is heavily involved in the build up to free up our wide forwards

 

[Paxi]

What an absolute fantasy.

It’s not a fantasy at all, Masons got best minutes to goals ratio of all our strikers. He is the most productive, potent striker we have, statistically speaking. He’s also playing within himself as RW, which is clearly not his natural position. You see him cutting into the left time and again because that’s what a natural striker does to get an opening, where as a traditional winger would take the route on the outside. His passing and vision is a least as good as Martials — its not overrating him if it’s true. Every single quality Greenwood had in youth teams has carried over to the senior team and he was very good at playing others into the game etc. It would not be a surprise or a fantasy at all to see Greenwood start playing through the middle in the next 12 to 18 months.

 

[cyberman]

Because we actually do not have actual wingers at the club yet... Martial will score more or those goals with Sancho around
Right now Martial is heavily involved in the build up to free up our wide forwards

And Mason will bring his attributes as he progresses.
Martial seems to have periods of the season where he's injured anyway. He'll find it hard to get back in when Mason has 6 in 6, for example.
Its really not that far fetched. Hell this time last year, the vast majority of the forum didnt think Anthony had it in him to lead the line himself.

 

[Cassidy]

And Mason will bring his attributes as he progresses.
Martial seems to have periods of the season where he's injured anyway. He'll find it hard to get back in when Mason has 6 in 6, for example.
Its really not that far fetched. Hell this time last year, the vast majority of the forum didnt think Anthony had it in him to lead the line himself.

Assuming Greenwood doesn't get injured himself or more likely have periods of off/inconsistent form. It is actually far fetched to expect Greenwoods form to remain consistent and on the up for all of next season.
Anyway its just nice to me that we could have Martial Sancho backed up by an immensely talented Greenwood next season.
Out of the current attacking 3 to me its more likely Rashford could find himself being pushed out before Martial

 

[cyberman]

Assuming Greenwood doesn't get injured himself or more likely have periods of off/inconsistent form. It is actually far fetched to expect Greenwoods form to remain consistent and on the up for all of next season.
Anyway its just nice to me that we could have Martial Sancho backed up by an immensely talented Greenwood next season.
Out of the current attacking 3 to me its more likely Rashford could find himself being pushed out before Martial

I think its extremly telling that we used Mason as the inside forward who made runs inside and kept Rashford wide to keep the shape for our run in. Neville kept giving him shit for it but it was stupidly obvious this was our actual tactic and not Rashfords personal choice.
Even with Sancho arriving I dont think anybody else can provide the variety that Marcus can

 

[Cassidy]

I think its extremly telling that we used Mason as the inside forward who made runs inside and kept Rashford wide to keep the shape for our run in. Neville kept giving him shit for it but it was stupidly obvious this was our actual tactic and not Rashfords personal choice.
Even with Sancho arriving I dont think anybody else can provide the variety that Marcus can

None of it works without Martial dropping deep, holding up the ball and linking the play which is the obvious thing you are missing

 

[Paxi]

I think its extremly telling that we used Mason as the inside forward who made runs inside and kept Rashford wide to keep the shape for our run in. Neville kept giving him shit for it but it was stupidly obvious this was our actual tactic and not Rashfords personal choice.
Even with Sancho arriving I dont think anybody else can provide the variety that Marcus can

For what it’s worth I think it’ll be be Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho in not too distant future. Martial will make way, although he’s played well to his credit but I still think Rashford will keep his place on the left as he offers more off the left than Tony does. And Greenwood will be a better player than Tony in 2 years time. It’s not a bad situation to find ourselves in. It’s exactly how it should be at Man Utd.

 

[Cassidy]

For what it’s worth I think it’ll be be Rashford, Greenwood, Sancho in not too distant future. Martial will make way, although he’s played well to his credit but I still think Rashford will keep his place on the left as he offers more off the left than Tony does. And Greenwood will be a better player than Tony in 2 years time. It’s not a bad situation to find ourselves in. It’s exactly how it should be at Man Utd.

Sancho can play LW

 

[Raven]

Vision doesn't equal creativity. I rate Martial's creativity because he has pretty good dribbling, and can create a chance out of nothing due to his ball manipulation in tight areas. I don't think Greenwood has that compared to Martial. However, I've yet to see vision from Martial at a level where I don't think Greenwood can surpass. Like I said, I think Greenwood will start to show that bit by bit as he ages. Same way I thought he would eventually start showing off his right foot's shot where as he didn't to start his United career. Confidence plays a factor.

I will agree to disagree on this point. I give the nod to Greenwood in regards to through ball ability.

By the way, my opinion is geared towards 3-4 years. No way do I agree with what Neville said. I feel like there are two separate discussions. The idea that Greenwood will replace Martial in a year, and discussing the ability of each player. I've nothing to do with the former.

Ahh, okay. I think Martial's vision is great but you could be right on that matter. 3/4 years is a long time and I certainly won't argue with you on that point.

 

[Paxi]

Sancho can play LW

But Greenwood isn’t a right winger. He has a tendency to cut inside to look for a shot first. Wingers first instinct is to get to the byline. Two different mindsets.

 

[Raven]

It’s not a fantasy at all, Masons got best minutes to goals ratio of all our strikers. He is the most productive, potent striker we have, statistically speaking. He’s also playing within himself as RW, which is clearly not his natural position. You see him cutting into the left time and again because that’s what a natural striker does to get an opening, where as a traditional winger would take the route on the outside. His passing and vision is a least as good as Martials — its not overrating him if it’s true. Every single quality Greenwood had in youth teams has carried over to the senior team and he was very good at playing others into the game etc. It would not be a surprise or a fantasy at all to see Greenwood start playing through the middle in the next 12 to 18 months.

Have you never heard of Robben and Ribery who both cut in onto their stronger foot? What an old fashioned view of a winger you have.

 

[Paxi]

Sancho can play LW

In any case all 4 will get plenty of minutes as long as we progress deep into 4 competitions. Heck, maybe even too many minutes. As long as Ole can keep all of them happy then we’re absolutely sorted.

 

[Cassidy]

But Greenwood isn’t a right winger. He has a tendency to cut inside to look for a shot first. Wingers first instinct is to get to the byline. Two different mindsets.

Rashford is also not a winger. We're obviously going to play with a wide forward rather than a winger on at least one side.

 

[cyberman]

None of it works without Martial dropping deep, holding up the ball and linking the play which is the obvious thing you are missing

.. Which we dont need to rely on if our wide men are keeping the width and we play through wide to get through low laying blocks instead of through the middle.
We have literally seen the opposition crowd the middle of the field during our run in and completley stifle our attacking play.
Its just obvious to me, we have literally seen Ole choose to work Greenwood into goal scoring positions over Rashford and Martial. Its he who has the freedom to roam infield.
I guess we will have found out by this time next year.

 

[Paxi]

Have you never heard of Robben and Robert who both cut in onto their stronger foot? What an old fashioned view of a winger you have.

Robben was always a winger and never a striker throughout his youth. Robben’s instinct was still to create despite cutting inside. The point is they have inherently different roles that formed them as professional players and this point it’s hard for a striker to take on a role as a winger and vice versa. It just doesn’t happen often. Even Robin van Persie wasn’t sure about playing as a main striker when Henry left but for Wenger to push him. Of course he succeeded but the point is, when a player plays a role that that they’re not used to, they’ll always be sacrificing some of their best qualities which is what Greenwood is doing while playing out wide.

 

[Paxi]

Rashford is also not a winger. We're obviously going to play with a wide forward rather than a winger on at least one side.

He’s a much better winger and takes up better positions than Greenwood does. Watch some of Rashfords assists. He’s coming in from the right or the left and coming from wide area of the pitch. Greenwood just doesn’t offer that and asking him to do that when Sancho arrives will be pointless.

 

[Raven]

Robben was always a winger and never a striker throughout his youth. Robben’s instinct was still to create despite cutting inside. The point is they have inherently different roles that formed them as professional players and this point it’s hard for a striker to take on a role as a winger and vice versa. It just doesn’t happen often. Even Robin van Persie wasn’t sure about playing as a main striker when Henry left but for Wenger to push him. Of course he succeeded but the point is, when a player plays a role that that they’re not used to, they’ll always be sacrificing some of their best qualities which is what Greenwood is doing while playing out wide.

Right... so you were wrong on your winger point, so you've decided to go off on another tangent. Most top teams play with wide forwards now, who generally contribute most of the goals to the team, playing Mason there certainly is not a bad thing.

 

[Raven]

.. Which we dont need to rely on if our wide men are keeping the width and we play through wide to get through low laying blocks instead of through the middle.
We have literally seen the opposition crowd the middle of the field during our run in and completley stifle our attacking play.
Its just obvious to me, we have literally seen Ole choose to work Greenwood into goal scoring positions over Rashford and Martial. Its he who has the freedom to roam infield.
I guess we will have found out by this time next year.

All 3 of them have license to roam. Sorry but your chatting bollocks here.

 

[cyberman]

Right... so you were wrong on your winger point, so you've decided to go off on another tangent. Most top teams play with wide forwards now, who generally contribute most of the goals to the team, playing Mason there certainly is not a bad thing.

Juve, Bayern, Madrid, City, Barca and Utd top scorers are all forwards who play through the middle.

 

[Paxi]

Right... so you were wrong on your winger point, so you've decided to go off on another tangent. Most top teams play with wide forwards now, who generally contribute most of the goals to the team, playing Mason there certainly is not a bad thing.

How am I wrong on a winger point? Wingers/wide forwards still need to go out wide or else they’d be easy to defend against unless you’ve got Arjen Robben on each side who essentially are unplayable at times. Wide forward/wingers still need to provide width and with Greenwood playing as a right winger, he’s doesn’t always do that. Go and watch his videos or something and refresh your memory and see that every time he gets the ball he’s always looking inside no matter where he is on the pitch. That’s not ideal. If you can’t fathom that then I don’t know what else to say to you.

I didn’t say it was a bad thing, to play him out wide, but again — it isn’t ideal. You’re clipping his natural ability by playing him wide. He’ll be in the starting line up as a 9 in 12-18 months time and either one of Sancho, Martial, or Rashford will make way for him.

 

[cyberman]

All 3 of them have license to roam. Sorry but your chatting bollocks here.

No they do not. Martial was publically told to stay through the middle and make runs etc across the defenders and he holds play up for us. Ole is on record saying that. He publically told Martial to stop drifting wide.
Happening to find youtself on the left or right during a move is not been given a license to roam.
Or is Ole taking shit as well?

Rashfords performances since the restart speaks for itself. He stays wide and plays the LB in or plays cut balls through to Martial.
Its ok trying to prove your point but nothing posts like these arent good enough. You seem very blinkered.

 

[Paxi]

All 3 of them have license to roam. Sorry but your chatting bollocks here.

That’s because they all want to take up roughly the same spaces as each other. We looked lopsided since we came back to stop that very thing from happening. Rashford was playing very deep on the left and Greenwood ended up behind Martial at times too. It’s really not how you want your team to play. At least not in my opinion. They’re asymmetrical formations and then there’s being totally lopsided. Of course AWB hopelessness on the ball didn’t help.

 

[Raven]

How am I wrong on a winger point? Wingers/wide forwards still need to go out wide or else they’d be easy to defend against unless you’ve got Arjen Robben on each side who essentially are unplayable at times. Wide forward/wingers still need to provide width and with Greenwood playing as a right winger, he’s doesn’t always do that. Go and watch his videos or something and refresh your memory and see that every time he gets the ball he’s always looking inside no matter where he is on the pitch. That’s not ideal. If you can’t fathom that then I don’t know what else to say to you.

I didn’t say it was a bad thing, to play him out wide, but again — it isn’t ideal. You’re clipping his natural ability by playing him wide. He’ll be in the starting line up as a 9 in 12-18 months time and either one of Sancho, Martial, or Rashford will make way for him.

I take it both Salah and Mane are both playing out of position as well then?

 

[KennyBurner]

Assuming Greenwood doesn't get injured himself or more likely have periods of off/inconsistent form. It is actually far fetched to expect Greenwoods form to remain consistent and on the up for all of next season.
Anyway its just nice to me that we could have Martial Sancho backed up by an immensely talented Greenwood next season.
Out of the current attacking 3 to me its more likely Rashford could find himself being pushed out before Martial

At first glance I would want to agree with you given rashford is the least technical out of all 4 players, however what rashford has in speed, directness and penetration is invaluable in a league like this were physicality matters. I don’t think greenwood will be a starter next season and that’s okay because Sancho can play on the right. We also have to factor in that with rashford we are tactically flexible. He is unplayeable on the counter and can play at a good enough level in a possession system.

I still feel greenwood shouldn’t be a major starter although he can. It’s all about preservation. We dont want to place too much responsibility on the kid at such a young age. There will also be more than enough games for him to feature in even as a non starter.

 

[Raven]

No they do not. Martial was publically told to stay through the middle and make runs etc across the defenders and he holds play up for us. Ole is on record saying that. He publically told Martial to stop drifting wide.
Happening to find youtself on the left or right during a move is not been given a license to roam.
Or is Ole taking shit as well?

Rashfords performances since the restart speaks for itself. He stays wide and plays the LB in or plays cut balls through to Martial.
Its ok trying to prove your point but nothing posts like these arent good enough. You seem very blinkered.

It's extremely evident that all 3 have the license to roam, Ole just doesn't want them to over do it.

 

[Paxi]

I take it both Salah and Mane are both playing out of position as well then?

Mane not a natural striker. Salah not a natural striker. You would be limiting their ability if you were to play them as a 9. Just as you are limiting Greenwood’s role as a wide forward.

 

[KennyBurner]

But Greenwood isn’t a right winger. He has a tendency to cut inside to look for a shot first. Wingers first instinct is to get to the byline. Two different mindsets.

Neither is rashford a winger. Are we also expecting him to be our future striker? Only winger we have at the club is Daniel James. I don’t see greenwood leading the line in less that 3 years.

 

[cyberman]

It's extremely evident that all 3 have the license to roam, Ole just doesn't want them to over do it.

But they dont. Rashford is used wide to stretch play with Shaw to create space through the middle for Bruno, Martial is tasked with holding it up through the middle for the attackers to play off of while Greenwood drifts inside to support Martial and create space for AWB to run into.
Its easy to spot. Close your eyes and picture AWB going forward. He usually has the wing to himself as he jogs into space or is trying to actually cross a ball.
Picture Shaw and he's laying the ball off to Rashford with 1-2s as he is played up to the byline.
Now picture Mason getting into a crossing position. Thats a lot harder to visualise.
Its why Bruno is always trying the killer ball, sonetimes blindly. All because he knows where our attackers should be.
Anyway, the point was they dont have a license to roam. Which they dont.

 

[Paxi]

Neither is rashford a winger. Are we also expecting him to be our future striker? Only winger we have at the club is Daniel James. I don’t see greenwood leading the line in less that 3 years.

He’s more of a winger than Greenwood will ever be. I think rashford prefers to play off the left but he’s not a typical number 9 for me or a central striker if you like. Greenwood is.

Rashford takes up really good positions as a wide forward and goes to the byline a lot. You see him close to the touchline a lot and he’s comfortable with that. Greenwood on the other hand is always looking to move to move more centrally when he receives the ball. When he isn’t involved he starts taking more central positions as well.

 

[Raven]

But they dont. Rashford is used wide to stretch play with Shaw to create space through the middle for Bruno, Martial is tasked with holding it up through the middle for the attackers to play off of while Greenwood drifts inside to support Martial and create space for AWB to run into.
Its easy to spot. Close your eyes and picture AWB going forward. He usually has the wing to himself as he jogs into space or is trying to actually cross a ball.
Picture Shaw and he's laying the ball off to Rashford with 1-2s as he is played up to the byline.
Now picture Mason getting into a crossing position. Thats a lot harder to visualise.
Its why Bruno is always trying the killer ball, sonetimes blindly. All because he knows where our attackers should be.
Anyway, the point was they dont have a license to roam. Which they dont.

Cool. So they've been doing it literally all season and to great effect but you reckon they're just disobeying Ole. Cool.

 

[Stacks]

He was saying that due to Beckham being so good at crossing, that people started to underrate his all around ability.

He is saying that Beckham only had one attribute, crossing. He is also claiming Mason can only finish

 

[Raven]

He is saying that Beckham only had one attribute, crossing. He is also claiming Mason can only finish

No, he said he had one outstanding attribute. Still untrue because his passing and dead balls were world class as well. What he says about Mason having one outstanding attribute, his shooting, is true as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: His 2 footedness is also an outstanding attribute, my bad.

 

[roonster09]

He was saying that due to Beckham being so good at crossing, that people started to underrate his all around ability.

He didn't say that.

 

[RooneyLegend]

He's going to displace Rashford if he comes here, not Martial. He's no where near the physicality needed to be a big time striker atm. Maybe in the next 3 years. He's going to displace Rashford because as we know in tight games Rashford has his limitations plus Sancho is better on the left than right.

 

[Stacks]

No, he said he had one outstanding attribute. Still untrue because his passing and dead balls were world class as well. What he says about Mason having one outstanding attribute, his shooting, is true as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: His 2 footedness is also an outstanding attribute, my bad.

Long range striking. Basically Beckham excelled at anything related to kicking a ball.

 

[Sayros]

He's going to displace Rashford if he comes here, not Martial. He's no where near the physicality needed to be a big time striker atm. Maybe in the next 3 years. He's going to displace Rashford because as we know in tight games Rashford has his limitations plus Sancho is better on the left than right.

I tend to lean in that direction as well, I think Martial is more important to United's success than Rashford due to his approach to the game and his superior ability to link up play, his finishing, and quick, inter-changing passes consistently (not that Rashford is bad at them, I just think Martial is superior). I also am of the belief that Sancho is better on the left wing than on the right. The problem is that Rashford (and Martial for that matter) are both pretty terrible on the right wing, so you could only have either Greenwood or Sancho there. Putting Sancho on the left is probably not the best idea overall for the team, and I'd rather see Greenwood be one of the first names to come off the bench to play at either of the three forward slots (assuming Rashford rediscovers his form by next season), and if he turns out to do the better job at any of them, then he should win the job by the end of the season. The beautiful thing about Greenwood is how young he is and how he's got plenty of time to develop, it's not stunting him to have him come off the bench at 18-19 and give him different positions to play in that he's capable of. He'll have plenty of time to specialize in a specific position down the line in his career.

 

[OrcaFat]

He's going to displace Rashford if he comes here, not Martial. He's no where near the physicality needed to be a big time striker atm. Maybe in the next 3 years. He's going to displace Rashford because as we know in tight games Rashford has his limitations plus Sancho is better on the left than right.

Rashford is much better than you make him sound. He was excellent before he got injured this season and is still coming back from being out. He will get as many games as any of the attacking players next year.

 

[roonster09]

ManUtd player of the month for July

 

[RooneyLegend]

Rashford is much better than you make him sound. He was excellent before he got injured this season and is still coming back from being out. He will get as many games as any of the attacking players next year.

Rashford can be excellent but has his limitations. He's got a very high peak and a low trough which is generally affected by the type of game we're playing. He'll get a lot of game time as there're games that he's devastating in.