Film Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'

Can you explain why someone can't find a kids action movie entertaining without the McDonalds analogy?



I'm sure there's probably a Superhero movie museum somewhere. :lol:
Why would I explain that? I have never claimed they can't be entertaining. I said they aren't good. That is a completely different point.

By the way, I'm not shocked a person claiming that movies can't be high art likes Marvel movies. Almost like these two things have something to do with each other.
 
It can. If you're stoned enough a lava lamp also provides a great source of entertainment. Entertaining doesn't mean good, though. And these movies aren't good. They aren't good, like McDonald's isn't good. And if a grown up were to tell me that McDonald's is actually good food, I'd laugh at them.
Which is why I keep mentioning haute cuisine. There's oviously a difference there. In the same way that there is a difference between Beethoven and the Butthole Surfers.
Wow this guy seems to be heavily mentally impacted by other people watching some movies. :lol:
 
Why would I explain that? I have never claimed they can't be entertaining. I said they aren't good. That is a completely different point.

By the way, I'm not shocked a person claiming that movies can't be high art likes Marvel movies. Almost like these two things have something to do with each other.

Good/bad is subjective though, like anything. Just because something is art it doesn't mean it's good either.

This art is literally shit
03_Naktschnecke_700.jpg

I've enjoyed some of the Marvel movies others not so much.

Seriously though I suppose Movies can be art I was talking shit, but this thread has become tedious when it used to be mildly entertaining. It's became like superhero movies, just the same shit repeated over and over again ad infinitum.
 
Wow this guy seems to be heavily mentally impacted by other people watching some movies. :lol:
Isn't that the whole point of the thread? And I wouldn't care all that much about these movies, if the companies behind them weren't seriously trying to monopolize and exploit a whole form of art for their personal gains. A process which sadly impacts the movies I like, as it makes them less accessible. And it negatively impacts the chances of potentially great movies actually being made. All this is part of a process which also seeks to destroy the medium of cinema as a whole. Which I personally passionately love and therefor care about.
So I feel I have a very valid reason to detest those turds put on the big screen by Disney or WB.
And part of the process are people so seriously underexposed to actual quality movies, that they end up claiming it is impossible for movies to constitute high art, never realizing how revealing and incredibly sad that statement is.
 
Isn't that the whole point of the thread? And I wouldn't care all that much about these movies, if the companies behind them weren't seriously trying to monopolize and exploit a whole form of art for their personal gains. A process which sadly impacts the movies I like, as it makes them less accessible. And it negatively impacts the chances of potentially great movies actually being made. All this is part of a process which also seeks to destroy the medium of cinema as a whole. Which I personally passionately love and therefor care about.
So I feel I have a very valid reason to detest those turds put on the big screen by Disney or WB.

In the age of endless streaming services. Has it ever really been easier to get a film made?

And part of the process are people so seriously underexposed to actual quality movies, that they end up claiming it is impossible for movies to constitute high art, never realizing how revealing and incredibly sad that statement is.

Genuinely interested, give me a list of let's say 15-20 quality movies you reckon most people haven't seen?
 
Isn't that the whole point of the thread? And I wouldn't care all that much about these movies, if the companies behind them weren't seriously trying to monopolize and exploit a whole form of art for their personal gains. A process which sadly impacts the movies I like, as it makes them less accessible. And it negatively impacts the chances of potentially great movies actually being made. All this is part of a process which also seeks to destroy the medium of cinema as a whole. Which I personally passionately love and therefor care about.
So I feel I have a very valid reason to detest those turds put on the big screen by Disney or WB.
And part of the process are people so seriously underexposed to actual quality movies, that they end up claiming it is impossible for movies to constitute high art, never realizing how revealing and incredibly sad that statement is.
I hope things get better for you soon and you can feel better about these things.
 
Why would I explain that? I have never claimed they can't be entertaining. I said they aren't good. That is a completely different point.

By the way, I'm not shocked a person claiming that movies can't be high art likes Marvel movies. Almost like these two things have something to do with each other.
Have you ever considered that what you regard as 'good' is different to what other people consider 'good'?

Once you accept that, you can let a lot of the anger and resentment drop and you'll feel so much better for it. Not everything has to be high art. Scorsese has made a lot of films I consider to be not good. If they are wildly successful and critically acclaimed, great for him and the people who enjoyed them. Just because I hated every minute of Wolf of Wall Street doesn't mean everyone else has to.
 
In the age of endless streaming services. Has it ever really been easier to get a film made?



Genuinely interested, give me a list of let's say 15-20 quality movies you reckon most people haven't seen?
Yes and no. Certain films are much more difficult to make now than a few decades back. Basically a whole kind of movie has almost ceased to exist those last few years. And that's smart but accessible blockbusters. Movies that serve as a kind of bridge between the more arthouse like movies and those that are most comparable to Marvel. It is, which is why I keep making the comparison, a lot like fast food. Fast food chains have caused many middle class restaurants to close. They were pushed out of business by chains continually growing. And while we have more restaurants now, than we did before, we have less variety in cuisine. With movies we might have more movies. But less variety, as they are mostly run by the same formula created by the same company. And the other big companies trying to compete, usually do so by copying the very big one. That's happening with Disney. Their share has gotten so big, they have become so dominant, that other studios are pressured to the point where they desperately copy Disney. So more restaurants, but less choice of food. More movies, but less choice of genre, quality, ambition and so on.

And the age of streaming also means more dependence on the streaming services, partly owned by the same companies that produce the movies (Disney obviously). They have a genuine interest in bypassing cinemas. They see them as an unnecessary party that gets money that should be theirs. Which is a huge blow to them. And as said before, I love cinemas. I really enjoy the shared experience and the way you are exposed to the screen and therefor much more emotionally vulnerable in a cinema compared to home, because you don't control what's happening. Michael Haneke once said as much about being exposed to the screen, but much harsher so I won't quote him here. ^^
And it's more difficult to release arthouse movies, if the amount of potential buyers becomes smaller. Disney growing is bad for indie movies, as they have fewer potential buyers with different interests, different kinds of movies they want to release. They basically have Disney and a few others nowadays, which means that they have to play by their rules.

And again, I think this shouldn't be a strange opinion to find in this thread. It's pretty much what it's been about from the start.
 
Yes and no. Certain films are much more difficult to make now than a few decades back. Basically a whole kind of movie has almost ceased to exist those last few years. And that's smart but accessible blockbusters. Movies that serve as a kind of bridge between the more arthouse like movies and those that are most comparable to Marvel. It is, which is why I keep making the comparison, a lot like fast food. Fast food chains have caused many middle class restaurants to close. They were pushed out of business by chains continually growing. And while we have more restaurants now, than we did before, we have less variety in cuisine. With movies we might have more movies. But less variety, as they are mostly run by the same formula created by the same company. And the other big companies trying to compete, usually do so by copying the very big one. That's happening with Disney. Their share has gotten so big, they have become so dominant, that other studios are pressured to the point where they desperately copy Disney. So more restaurants, but less choice of food. More movies, but less choice of genre, quality, ambition and so on.

And the age of streaming also means more dependence on the streaming services, partly owned by the same companies that produce the movies (Disney obviously). They have a genuine interest in bypassing cinemas. They see them as an unnecessary party that gets money that should be theirs. Which is a huge blow to them. And as said before, I love cinemas. I really enjoy the shared experience and the way you are exposed to the screen and therefor much more emotionally vulnerable in a cinema compared to home, because you don't control what's happening. Michael Haneke once said as much about being exposed to the screen, but much harsher so I won't quote him here. ^^
And it's more difficult to release arthouse movies, if the amount of potential buyers becomes smaller. Disney growing is bad for indie movies, as they have fewer potential buyers with different interests, different kinds of movies they want to release. They basically have Disney and a few others nowadays, which means that they have to play by their rules.

And again, I think this shouldn't be a strange opinion to find in this thread. It's pretty much what it's been about from the start.

Me too.

Companies have an interest in bypassing cinema because they are businesses, so they'll always do what maximises profit. The rise of streaming services though and declining cinema going rates has mostly been driven by people, most people, most of the time prefer to watch a movie at home vs going to a theatre. Around a century ago people used to go the to theatre to watch everything, Movies, News, etc. With the advent of affordable home televisions people started to watch more and more at home. I think we're just going through a similar consumer driven shift.

The streaming services have basically just replaced the movie prodction companies to an extent. Getting a movie made almost always relied upon someone funding it.
 
Me too.

Companies have an interest in bypassing cinema because they are businesses, so they'll always do what maximises profit. The rise of streaming services though and declining cinema going rates has mostly been driven by people, most people, most of the time prefer to watch a movie at home vs going to a theatre. Around a century ago people used to go the to theatre to watch everything, Movies, News, etc. With the advent of affordable home televisions people started to watch more and more at home. I think we're just going through a similar consumer driven shift.

The streaming services have basically just replaced the movie prodction companies to an extent. Getting a movie made almost always relied upon someone funding it.
The irony is that the MCU was responsible for halting the downturn of cinemagoer numbers in the last decade and gave cinemas a bit of a second wind. Until covid.
 
In the age of endless streaming services. Has it ever really been easier to get a film made?



Genuinely interested, give me a list of let's say 15-20 quality movies you reckon most people haven't seen?

If they were born in the nineties, chances are they haven't even watched the LOTR trilogy. Never mind something like The Godfather...
 
A lot of old men yelling at clouds in here
These movies and the people involved with these movies are the corporate polluters pumping poison out into the ether and fecking up the water cycle.

They create clouds that rain down acid upon children causing all manner of growth abnormalities.

It's not a matter of taste but a matter of the destruction that is wrought, and the pride with which they do it.
 
If they were born in the nineties, chances are they haven't even watched the LOTR trilogy. Never mind something like The Godfather...
Yes. I have only seen three movies. Forrest Gump, Avatar and Police Academy 7.
 
Anyway, Scorcese gets way too much shit for this, but not nearly enough for rehabilitating the reputation of Elia Kazan.
 
It can. If you're stoned enough a lava lamp also provides a great source of entertainment. Entertaining doesn't mean good, though. And these movies aren't good. They aren't good, like McDonald's isn't good. And if a grown up were to tell me that McDonald's is actually good food, I'd laugh at them.
Which is why I keep mentioning haute cuisine. There's oviously a difference there. In the same way that there is a difference between Beethoven and the Butthole Surfers.
Average Reddit user
 
Yes and no. Certain films are much more difficult to make now than a few decades back. Basically a whole kind of movie has almost ceased to exist those last few years. And that's smart but accessible blockbusters. Movies that serve as a kind of bridge between the more arthouse like movies and those that are most comparable to Marvel. It is, which is why I keep making the comparison, a lot like fast food. Fast food chains have caused many middle class restaurants to close. They were pushed out of business by chains continually growing. And while we have more restaurants now, than we did before, we have less variety in cuisine. With movies we might have more movies. But less variety, as they are mostly run by the same formula created by the same company. And the other big companies trying to compete, usually do so by copying the very big one. That's happening with Disney. Their share has gotten so big, they have become so dominant, that other studios are pressured to the point where they desperately copy Disney. So more restaurants, but less choice of food. More movies, but less choice of genre, quality, ambition and so on.

And the age of streaming also means more dependence on the streaming services, partly owned by the same companies that produce the movies (Disney obviously). They have a genuine interest in bypassing cinemas. They see them as an unnecessary party that gets money that should be theirs. Which is a huge blow to them. And as said before, I love cinemas. I really enjoy the shared experience and the way you are exposed to the screen and therefor much more emotionally vulnerable in a cinema compared to home, because you don't control what's happening. Michael Haneke once said as much about being exposed to the screen, but much harsher so I won't quote him here. ^^
And it's more difficult to release arthouse movies, if the amount of potential buyers becomes smaller. Disney growing is bad for indie movies, as they have fewer potential buyers with different interests, different kinds of movies they want to release. They basically have Disney and a few others nowadays, which means that they have to play by their rules.

And again, I think this shouldn't be a strange opinion to find in this thread. It's pretty much what it's been about from the start.
I don’t necessarily disagree with much of what you’ve written here, but this has been a common theme throughout the history of cinema.

If anything, cinema (re: Hollywood) is actually a cultural zeitgeist of the USA. The post-war period specifically predicated the saturation of Westerns. Hollywood was pumping out this genre in that post war period, and it reflected the mood and feeling of the time. It was holding up a lens on the USA, the white saviour, who were bringing law, order and civilisation to the heathens…just as they had done to Nazi Germany.

But the Vietnam war, the counter culture of the 60s changed all that…and again, it changed how the USA viewed itself. There was a small second wind of revisionist Westerns, and Spaghetti Westerns, but the tides were shifting for good. It’s why dystopian Sci-Fi effectively replaced the Western as the go to model in cinema (re Hollywood) for most of the late 60s and 70s. The various scandals, CIA watching you, coups in South America led covertly by the USA were all common themes in these sci-fi films (ie nothing is what it seems, tech is bad and corrupt etc etc). It’s actually ironic that Star Wars, which is essentially a Space Opera/Western, became the defining movie of this genre/time (because it was literally A New Hope following the shit the USA did across the world previously, and could resume its role as the white saviour).

I think post this period, we had era defining genres, such as sci fi moving into horror (80s) which kind of coincided with VHS, action (90s), and specifically with action, again, this was how the USA saw itself on the world stage. In fact, I'd say Hollywood is one of the primary ways that the USA exports its culture on the world - think about how significant it is in giving the heathens (i.e. the rest of the world) a glimpse of the American dream, their values, and their culture. In the 90s, it's important again to understand what was happening in the world at the time, Gulf War, end of the Soviet Union, capitalism 'winning'…again, the USA reasserting itself as the main world player, the hero.

So how does this relate to where we are now? What I’m trying to say is - superhero movies have been and will be pumped out, just as other genres have been. It’s a sign of the times, and it holds up a mirror to what the USA is, or more accurately, what it wishes it is and how they wish to be seen. It's the same as Westerns in the 50s/60s, dystopian Sci Fi in the 70s, 80s, Action in the 90s - they're just exporting their values, culture and their role as the hero in the world. And it's why this superhero trend is just a continuation of that - Hollywood will pump these out by the dozen because it reflects the people, and the culture at the time. Super powers, and super human acts of heroism is what they think they do on the geopolitical stage.

I don't know what the next trend will be, but if you follow politics, you could make a guess that perhaps we'll see a retraction of the USA as the main political superpower, and this will be reflected in its movies as well.
 
If they were born in the nineties, chances are they haven't even watched the LOTR trilogy. Never mind something like The Godfather...

To be fair I know quite a few people born well before the 90s who've never seen Lotr. Their loss.
 
If you want to explain superhero movies in terms of historical American movie trends then all well and good but then the point about the dearth of quality and content in these movies makes itself by comparison. Because:

50s Westerns had the likes of:
Nicholas Ray
John Ford
Sam Fuller
Fritz Lang
Howard Hawks

70s Sci-fi had:
Tarkovsky
Spielberg
Ridley Scott
Kubrick

current Superheroes have:
Nolan
er...
Sam Rami (but well before the boom and certainly before the bulk of the criticism referred to in this thread)
Tim Burton (again well before the current generation of films)
Brad Bird (again prior to the MCU)
Del Toro (again made apart from the current glut of movies)

Who wants to be the brave boy to argue that Zack Snyder is the new Fritz Lang? Is Wonder Woman the superhero version of Solaris.
 
If you want to explain superhero movies in terms of historical American movie trends then all well and good but then the point about the dearth of quality and content in these movies makes itself by comparison. Because:

50s Westerns had the likes of:
Nicholas Ray
John Ford
Sam Fuller
Fritz Lang
Howard Hawks

70s Sci-fi had:
Tarkovsky
Spielberg
Ridley Scott
Kubrick

current Superheroes have:
Nolan
er...
Sam Rami (but well before the boom and certainly before the bulk of the criticism referred to in this thread)
Tim Burton (again well before the current generation of films)
Brad Bird (again prior to the MCU)
Del Toro (again made apart from the current glut of movies)

Who wants to be the brave boy to argue that Zack Snyder is the new Fritz Lang? Is Wonder Woman the superhero version of Solaris.
Its the sheer volume of the type of movie which is the sign of the times, not necessarily the quality. From 1945 to around 1960, there was only one type of movie that Hollywood was pumping out. Similarly, these were replaced by a new genre in the late 60s/70s.

And there were similar criticisms levelled at Westerns in their time too - they were seen as a movie-by-numbers, and certainly a 'lower' form of art. Anything which is over done always is.
 
Its the sheer volume of the type of movie which is the sign of the times, not necessarily the quality. From 1945 to around 1960, there was only one type of movie that Hollywood was pumping out. Similarly, these were replaced by a new genre in the late 60s/70s.

And there were similar criticisms levelled at Westerns in their time too - they were seen as a movie-by-numbers, and certainly a 'lower' form of art. Anything which is overdone always is.

The biggest difference with Westerns I think is that they weren't movies that shared much in common except setting and some kind of conflict. Directors could be more creative in terms of how they handled those tropes and didn't necessarily need for them all to be the same story. For example, many of the better Westerns used internal conflict as the driving force behind their ideas. Those films in turn resonated on a higher level because they were realistic and human-focused.

Superhero movies by comparison seem to be an extension of what we had already in the 1960s/70s where they churned them out due to mass appeal and eventually the lack of quality and originality made people lose interest. There's not much you can do with them either because by their nature they're just stories about the good guy vs. the bad guy. I.e. the same style as most of the forgettable Westerns (except replace the bad guy in a suit with some bloodthirsty In'dyuns).

Edit - I still think directors/writers could be creative in spite of the constraints but definitely not with the current studio model being so conservative about what superhero movies need to be.
 
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The super hero era is mostly dead now, right ?

Just from a quick google there isn’t any big hitting movies coming up in the future. The latest tv with Samual Jackson couldn’t even break million viewers.
 
The biggest difference with Westerns I think is that they weren't movies that shared much in common except setting and some kind of conflict. Directors could be more creative in terms of how they handled those tropes and didn't necessarily need for them all to be the same story. For example, many of the better Westerns used internal conflict as the driving force behind their ideas. Those films in turn resonated on a higher level because they were realistic and human-focused.

Superhero movies by comparison seem to be an extension of what we had already in the 1960s/70s where they churned them out due to mass appeal and eventually the lack of quality and originality made people lose interest. There's not much you can do with superhero movies because by their nature they're just stories about the good guy vs. the bad guy. I.e. the same style as most of the forgettable Westerns and also by extension some of the worst aspects of the War genre.

I'm sure some directors/writers could come up with more creative means of telling these stories but it's hugely limited by both what they are (i.e. audience expectations) and also because studios are incredibly protective about their IPs.
When they were first (mass) produced, Westerns all followed a relatively strict formula. White saviour cowboy/sheriff (good guys) bringing protecting white people from uncivilised heathens (Indians) (bad guys). This trope did get tired the longer time went on, and it's why we saw some revisionist Westerns, anti-Westerns etc in the decade that followed (High Plains Drifter, Little Big Man are all examples of this). Although it came a lot later, one of the best movies in the genre flipped the Western ideal on its head (Unforgiven).

It's pretty much the same with Superhero movies. They're just Westerns in a wholly different context, like Star Wars was when it was made. And they follow the same strict formula. You do get exceptions that try and do more with the genre (Logan, the Dark Knight, Civil War) but they're the exception to the rule.

Fundamentally, cinema has always just been about escapism and these genres do that whether its Westerns, Sci-Fi, horror etc.

I do get the argument that these IPs are so powerful now that it's preventing original ideas, or indie movies from even getting cinema, and it is a problem. But the notion that we're in this new, unseen, phase of cinema isn't strictly accurate as it's just a continuation of what Hollywood has been doing since 1945. Like I said earlier, we're probably going to see a new dominating genre very soon as the market is saturated with this content now, and we'll see a cultural shift.
 
When they were first (mass) produced, Westerns all followed a relatively strict formula. White saviour cowboy/sheriff (good guys) bringing protecting white people from uncivilised heathens (Indians) (bad guys). This trope did get tired the longer time went on, and it's why we saw some revisionist Westerns, anti-Westerns etc in the decade that followed (High Plains Drifter, Little Big Man are all examples of this). Although it came a lot later, one of the best movies in the genre flipped the Western ideal on its head (Unforgiven).

It's pretty much the same with Superhero movies. They're just Westerns in a wholly different context, like Star Wars was when it was made. And they follow the same strict formula. You do get exceptions that try and do more with the genre (Logan, the Dark Knight, Civil War) but they're the exception to the rule.

Fundamentally, cinema has always just been about escapism and these genres do that whether its Westerns, Sci-Fi, horror etc.

I do get the argument that these IPs are so powerful now that it's preventing original ideas, or indie movies from even getting cinema, and it is a problem. But the notion that we're in this new, unseen, phase of cinema isn't strictly accurate as it's just a continuation of what Hollywood has been doing since 1945. Like I said earlier, we're probably going to see a new dominating genre very soon as the market is saturated with this content now, and we'll see a cultural shift.

Very good take. To me if you transported this forum into the western era, sci fi era etc you would hear the same complaints about those genres. As with any genre you will have good movies, you'll have bad movies. I'd have to question someone's motive if they say the likes of Joker, The Dark Knight, Batman, Guardians of the Galaxy etc are bad movies. None may be "masterpieces" in the film auteur world, but you can go back to most genre "masterpiece" films like a blade runner and find critics and fans who don't view the movies as anything great. Another example is Avengers Infinity War/ Endgame. A user sarcastically (or honestly) compared it to Avatar which "pushed the filmmaking process" forward, without also recognising that hate it or love it infinity war/endgame was a pioneer (unless I'm missing another IP) that built a cohesive storyline over 10 years and 20+ films and then successfully stuck the landing, which in itself is pioneering.
 
Aren't international films doing really well these days anyways? You can create a really nice-looking film for just a few million dollars nowadays, thus bypassing the need for Hollywood. And you can say a lot about Everything Everywhere All At Once, but it did prove that you can even make scifi and action for 1/10 the budget of the biggest blockbusters. If the technical competence is spread across borders and audiences learn how to read subtitles, I see no reason for why films can't be a in a great spot.
 
Very good take. To me if you transported this forum into the western era, sci fi era etc you would hear the same complaints about those genres. As with any genre you will have good movies, you'll have bad movies. I'd have to question someone's motive if they say the likes of Joker, The Dark Knight, Batman, Guardians of the Galaxy etc are bad movies. None may be "masterpieces" in the film auteur world, but you can go back to most genre "masterpiece" films like a blade runner and find critics and fans who don't view the movies as anything great. Another example is Avengers Infinity War/ Endgame. A user sarcastically (or honestly) compared it to Avatar which "pushed the filmmaking process" forward, without also recognising that hate it or love it infinity war/endgame was a pioneer (unless I'm missing another IP) that built a cohesive storyline over 10 years and 20+ films and then successfully stuck the landing, which in itself is pioneering.
I agree - I think we're in that phase of 'revisionist Superhero' works anyway with the likes of Invincible, the Boys, and some of those movies you've mentioned. We forget, but comics have been around since the 1930s, so they've already gone through their revisionist phase on page, and are now circling back to profit off the current genre domination in the cinema. These things are always cyclical.

When Sergio Leone first directed A Fistful of Dollars, the genre was already tired and sagging, but, being a visionary, it breathed new life into the genre and paved the way for Western-adjacent stories that didn't follow the same old plot and formula. Spaghetti Westerns, fundamentally changed the direction of cinema, Hollywood, and the art of filmmaking as a whole. I'm not saying we'll see that with this genre, but it's interesting to see how new art is created from a tired sagging and oversaturated market. It was the same again when Star Wars was made - we had the dystopian Sci-Fi genre that was the 'trusted' method, but Star Wars circled back to the original idea that was seen in 1945+ Westerns (and so on and so forth).
 
The super hero era is mostly dead now, right ?

Just from a quick google there isn’t any big hitting movies coming up in the future. The latest tv with Samual Jackson couldn’t even break million viewers.
Your Google is broken.

There's 2 new avengers coming out, a fantastic four and an X-Men cartoon (amongst everything else). Over at DC they're literally rebooting their universe and there's a superman moving coming out.

Unless you dont consider those hard hitters, which would be weird.
 
I think there was an easier way to say someone doesn't like Marvel/Superhero Movies without being so radical?I kinda understand it, because I am dubious on this.

In one hand superhero movies are watchable if they happen in a fantastic scenery, a different universe, etc. It becomes easier to accept the lack of logical in a lot of moments of those kind of movies if they are in a different universe/planet/etc because those are the rules for that universe.
Or in a comedy movie, I can accept the chaotic ruleset if they favour the comedy purposes.

Those that happens in planet Earth makes me want to stop watching simply because it becomes too much BS to accept as a rule and at the same time they want to be taken seriously.
 
Your Google is broken.

There's 2 new avengers coming out, a fantastic four and an X-Men cartoon (amongst everything else). Over at DC they're literally rebooting their universe and there's a superman moving coming out.

Unless you dont consider those hard hitters, which would be weird.
@Sweet Square is too cool to use Google, he gets all his info from Ask Jeeves.
 
Your Google is broken.

There's 2 new avengers coming out, a fantastic four and an X-Men cartoon (amongst everything else). Over at DC they're literally rebooting their universe and there's a superman moving coming out.

Unless you dont consider those hard hitters, which would be weird.
Oh…..
@Sweet Square is too cool to use Google, he gets all his info from Ask Jeeves.
:lol:

Who better to trust than a man in a well tailored suit!
 
The idea that we're going to look back on the Russos as the Kurosawa and Kobayashi of the komic age, yknow just give it time, we're in a cycle, its a continuation, Kurosawa had his critics remember, is laughable, bordering on gaslighting.

Get fecking real with yourself.
 
The idea that we're going to look back on the Russos as the Kurosawa and Kobayashi of the komic age, yknow just give it time, we're in a cycle, its a continuation, Kurosawa had his critics remember, is laughable, bordering on gaslighting.

Get fecking real with yourself.
Are you a moron? At what point have I mentioned the qualitative aspect of movies? You got your panties in a twist abut this before, and you were corrected. I've not mentioned how these movies will be viewed in terms of quality, but simply what we're seeing in terms of the sheer volume is not unprecedented.

If you want to explain superhero movies in terms of historical American movie trends then all well and good but then the point about the dearth of quality and content in these movies makes itself by comparison. Because:

50s Westerns had the likes of:
Nicholas Ray
John Ford
Sam Fuller
Fritz Lang
Howard Hawks

70s Sci-fi had:
Tarkovsky
Spielberg
Ridley Scott
Kubrick

current Superheroes have:
Nolan
er...
Sam Rami (but well before the boom and certainly before the bulk of the criticism referred to in this thread)
Tim Burton (again well before the current generation of films)
Brad Bird (again prior to the MCU)
Del Toro (again made apart from the current glut of movies)

Who wants to be the brave boy to argue that Zack Snyder is the new Fritz Lang? Is Wonder Woman the superhero version of Solaris.
Its the sheer volume of the type of movie which is the sign of the times, not necessarily the quality. From 1945 to around 1960, there was only one type of movie that Hollywood was pumping out. Similarly, these were replaced by a new genre in the late 60s/70s.

And there were similar criticisms levelled at Westerns in their time too - they were seen as a movie-by-numbers, and certainly a 'lower' form of art. Anything which is over done always is.
Try reading the response before typing shite.
 


This was a great movie. Also it massively inspired the aesthetics in the Matrix.
 
Speaking about underrated comic-book movies, I still maintain that Valerian + Thousand Planets movie was pretty good. I mean it was campy and dumb but the visuals were great and it never took itself too seriously.