Jesus, that looks shite.The CGI is especially terrible in this one.
I do like Tatiana Maslany though.
Film Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'
- Thread starter Sweet Square
- Start date
I do like Tatiana Maslany though.
I quite like the character to be honest. You could make a fun show out of it. A lot of her storylines are pretty silly court room drama's. They'll probably make another boring punch nasty people in face tv show though.
Its not cinema?
Its the most popular movies on the cinema.
Then he makes a netflix film that is so bad it looks like a comedy. (Thats not even funny) That you cant watch on the cinema.
Departed is one of the best movies i ever seen, but Martin is way over the line here.
Its the most popular movies on the cinema.
Then he makes a netflix film that is so bad it looks like a comedy. (Thats not even funny) That you cant watch on the cinema.
Departed is one of the best movies i ever seen, but Martin is way over the line here.
There's no texture. All looks rubbery.The CGI is especially terrible in this one.
Basically, it looks laughably bad.
Here in is what he means. Only a small portion of cinema is about popularity. Cinema is as much about making money for producers as it is challenging the idea of the story for directors and writers.
Marvel and superhero movies generally do not challenge the narrative. The reason producers love them is because they are bankers and fans love it because it doesn’t challenge them and they know exactly what they’re going to get.
The MCU is becoming worse the more stuff they release post End Game.
Wanda Vision = awful
The Falcon and Winter Soldier: decent
Loki = good
Black Widow = terrible
What If = very good
Shang Chi = Surprisingly, pretty damn good
Eternals = terrible
Hawkeye = meh
Spiderman: No Way Home = bang average and extremely overhyped
Moon Knight = good
Dr Strange: MOM = shambolic
Wanda Vision = awful
The Falcon and Winter Soldier: decent
Loki = good
Black Widow = terrible
What If = very good
Shang Chi = Surprisingly, pretty damn good
Eternals = terrible
Hawkeye = meh
Spiderman: No Way Home = bang average and extremely overhyped
Moon Knight = good
Dr Strange: MOM = shambolic
If he hates Marvel, wait until he sees the new Winnie the Pooh Horror movie! 
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I mean they still sell it for ads, only it's for their neverending merchandise. Funko.pops etc
''I remember... I... I... I cried, I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out; I didn't know what I wanted to do! And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it... I never want to forget. And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought, my God... the genius of that! The genius! The will to do that! Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we, because they could stand that these were not monsters, these were men...''
If he hates Marvel, wait until he sees the new Winnie the Pooh Horror movie!
Thats has to be joke, right ?
Definitely makes some good points.
The memorable quotes one sounds good when said but there are loads of great films without memorable quotes as well as comic book films with memorable quotes (infinity war had loads from thanos).
Also he fails to take into account generational divides. Say the godfather quote to a 30+ yo and they might know it, say it to an under 30 yo and the probably won't. Same vice versa with a good quote from a comicbook film.
Also on the quotes point, what would be a memorable quote from the last 10-15 years? There have been plenty of great films released in that time.
I am Groot?
Does he ? Just from a quick google the guy sounds like one those awful inspirational quotes books for yoga moms.
''I Am Inevitable.''
"Fun Isn't Something One Considers When Balancing The Universe''
"I'm A Survivor."
Thats a fair point although I guess he would argue that fact we are still using quotes from 70's cinema is evidence of the lack of long term investment into film culture. Imo the last great cultural era of movies was most likely the 90's.
Whats a good quote from a comicbook film ? The best I can think of it maybe the Nolan Joker or Bane stuff but thats about it. The Marvel stuff sounds like quotes from someone suffering from brain injury.
Dafuq?
Just download a camrip. Also, brainworms from reaction channels.
It's become way worse in UK cinemas since lockdown ended...people's main character syndrome taking over. Had a woman literally shout her way through the entirety of Top Gun yesterday - "UH-OHHHHHH", "WOW THIS IS CRAZY", "NOOOO DON'T DO IT". She was far from the only one, just the most persistent.
Does he ? Just from a quick google the guy sounds like one those awful inspirational quotes books for yoga moms.
''I Am Inevitable.''
"Fun Isn't Something One Considers When Balancing The Universe''
"I'm A Survivor."
Thats a fair point although I guess he would argue that fact we are still using quotes from 70's cinema is evidence of the lack of long term investment into film culture. Imo the last great cultural era of movies was most likely the 90's.
Whats a good quote from a comicbook film ? The best I can think of it maybe the Nolan Joker or Bane stuff but thats about it. The Marvel stuff sounds like quotes from someone suffering from brain injury.
But quotes become memorable based on the context they were said in. The godfather quote, star war's (I am your father), scarface (say hello to my little friend), on the surface they are just lines, there's nothing inherently complex about them but in the context of the movie they become memorable to the people who enjoy those films.
Once again the godfather quote doesn't have the same memorability to someone who hasn't watched it or didn't enjoy the godfather. The same way a marvel quote (perfectly balanced, as all things should be, I love you 3000) doesn't have the same sort of memorability to someone who wasn't invested in the films or has no idea of the context it was said in. Heck one of the most quoted lines is from a comic book (With great power).
Now none of that says that the writing is as good, or the films are better, classic etc. Just that memorable quotes tend to be the quotes that impacted you at the right time hence for someone older than 30 it would probably be scarface, star wars etc and under 30 it would be more recent things.
To a certain degree this argument can be used on anything. To a peasant the works of Debussy would have been less memorable than the sound of a cow taking a shite. But clearly one is more memorable to society. There's simply a higher chance that a person will know ''make him an offer he can't refuse'' is from the godfather than ''I love you 3000'' is from whatever marvel movie, because one is attempting to say something and the other is a theme park ride.
The difference is people are still quoting a movie from the 70's, where as the memorable thing everyone loves about the marvel films is the scene after the credits roll. Also doesn't help that every quote from a Marvel film sound like it's from someone having a stroke or current sitting president of the United States trying to work a coffee machine.
Has he watched any movies his nephew has been in?
Cheers. Didn't know it was in the public domain, which isn't that bad.
Fair point regarding longevity but you or I don't know whether Marvel films will be quoted in 50 years time. Based on their fanbase I would lean more likely that there will be a lot of people who are fans using memorable quotes from those movies. The same way there are movies from 80s, 90s, 00s etc with classic lines (yippee ki yay, red pill blue pill etc). Once again that doesn't speak of the quality of the films, but probably does speak to the impact of the films.
Regarding your first point, that is the point. Art is subjective, whether its music, film etc. If you did a survey right now of the average person (not redcafe....) to name the movie "make him an offer he can't refuse" and "with great power comes great responsibility" come from, I wouldn't be surpised if more people know the latter. Does it make Spiderman better than the godfather though? No. Hence that this quote point he was making doesn't really say much about a movie's "greatness".
Memorable dialogue is about set-up, context and the delivery. The almost mechanical way Marvel make films doesn't allow the time or space for writers, directors and actors to do something unexpected, the formula dictates that they throw in 2-3 "bad thing happens and hero quips" moments into every film so they do it. Writing dialogue to tick boxes in a spreadsheet doesn't lead to stuff like "You're gonna need a bigger boat".
People don't even quote them now, I've yet to hear anyone quote the example I posted above. Ideally the Chinese invasion of america and west europe will happen within the next 50 years and the CCCP will save us.
Yeah it's not though. Saying art is subjective is basically saying nothing is art. It the coke cola advert that starts before a re showing of the godfather can be subjectively read as just as much of an artistic expression as Coppola film than art is meaningless.
That one quote comes from a comic book which is different than the films Grey is talking about.
Even the worst Marvel movie is Citizen Kane compared to Sofia Coppola's death scene in the Godfather 3
Agree. It's about building tension in slower moments and having the dialogue act as pay-off, which is seemingly something these movies are scared to do.
Because your name reminded me, the scene in Jurassic Park where Jeff Goldblum says (paraphrasing) "You spent so long wondering if you could do it, you didn't think if you should" comes during what is probably the least interesting part of the entire film. It's memorable though because it's a pay-off for what is otherwise a slow and slightly boring part.
There's no reason superhero movies can't do it but, as you say, the mechanical way they're made doesn't help. It's often like scenes are fighting over themselves instead of the director saying Scene A will be impactful then there'll be 20 minutes of slowness, then Scene B will ramp up the tension again. Fans might say otherwise but I remain unconvinced.
Speaking metaphysically, cinema is time + space and when you're scared to slow time down you lose a lot of what makes great cinema, well, great.
Spielberg still remains a master of it. He made movies like a rollercoaster but crucially knew that not every rollercoaster is made of inverted loops. Sometimes you're on a chain uphill.
The Godfather quote comes from a book.
I mean, I’m largely on your side, but you fun police cnuts are so fecking boring… and “no one quotes comic book films” is a terrible take.
While Sweet Square is absolutely the fun police, I derive a lot of enjoyment from angry marvel fans coming into this thread just to get annoyed.
So while it's important to let people enjoy things, it's also important to let people shit on things.
So while it's important to let people enjoy things, it's also important to let people shit on things.
Agreed. But painfully pseud takes about the improper creative contextual pacing of film dialogue these days prohibiting anyone from writing anything as titanically majestic as …. “You’re gonna need a bigger boat”… is not it.
Jaws was a blockbuster* and it was a quip. It was also probably an ad-libbed improv by Scheider, so nothing to do with the writing at all.
* Also based on a book. A really really schlocky book.
Jaws was a blockbuster* and it was a quip. It was also probably an ad-libbed improv by Scheider, so nothing to do with the writing at all.
* Also based on a book. A really really schlocky book.
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That's actually a fair rebuttal, most of my favourite film quotes aren't particularly deep, and while I'd never given it much thought prior to this exact moment a lot of them actually come from book adaptations.
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As is the Jurassic Park one, also used as an example of great bygone film dialogue on this page…. Basically all the righteous culture wallies are proving is they don’t read enough books.
Asking me to stop hating on bad movies.
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I think you're sort of missing the point of the post, if it's mine you're referring to. The point I was making is that it's not really the line/writing itself that makes a memorable quote, it's everything around it. The reason that line from Jaws is particularly memorable is because it's unexpected, delivered well and it sticks out in the context of that scene (and the film), not because it's a particularly clever line. If it was an ad-lib where the actor decided to try a quip and they kept it because worked, that sort of proves my point. In a Marvel film, that line would always be a quip and we'd all be expecting one because that's what happens in those situations in Marvel films. Even if they went all out and wrote something better than the usual "Well THAT just happened" kinda thing, it'd be unlikely to stick out as an individual line because it's so predictable, and because it'll be one of several similar moments in the film.
Having said that, I agree that "Marvel films don't have memorable dialogue" is a weak criticism, even if I broadly agree with the statement. The idea that memorable dialogue is what makes a film good or bad is daft. That's no better summed up then in the video posted further up where the guy is seemingly earnestly arguing Aquaman isn't as good as The Godfather on the grounds that no-one can remember any lines from Aquaman.
Hey I read half of it!
Either way my point wasn't really about dialogue. I was more so trying to highlight that what makes memorable dialogue is often good pacing and the pacing of marvel movies is really frenetic and means any ability to have memorable dialogue gets lost in between all the action or cool set-pieces. That's something older movies didn't struggle with as much because nascent CGI meant you couldn't rely on action to dominate the film. It was always a balance between drama and action parts, which is why I mentioned Spielberg because he was fantastic at pacing his stuff.
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