Film Martin Scorsese - Marvel movies are 'not cinema'
- Thread starter Sweet Square
- Start date
Still waiting for an answer to this @do.ob
I thought you could come up with an answer on your own.
Morbius is a very good example for Scorsese's criticism, because in its essence it seems to be Sony trying to print ever more money in the laziest way possible, so they buy some fringe IP, they push out a CGI polished turd that gets absolutely battered by critics, but guess what - zombie consumers still make it a hit and rate it favourably. In a race towards "how mindlessly formulaic and idiotic can we make our movies, until people stop lapping them up" it's a new milestone.
And inconsistencies like a changing hair cut mid-scene are evidence of low artistic standards, though of course one case on its own doesn't make a pattern.
That being said, it's okay that you're a fan of the movie.
Minor continuity issues like that don't bother me. It happens in all movies, Scorsese films are known for that funnily enough.
Spielberg too. Look at Jurassic Park for example.
Spielberg too. Look at Jurassic Park for example.
I wouldn't have posted it myself, but I don't think it's entirely out of place either.
Tbh Scorsese was always correct but the discussion became pointless with shite like this
For whatever they are just certain people who can't let others simply hating things on the internet for fun. Marvel films are awful, it's enjoyable to hate awful things.
For whatever they are just certain people who can't let others simply hating things on the internet for fun. Marvel films are awful, it's enjoyable to hate awful things.
I did think No Way Home is a shit movie. Weak even by Marvel standards. Like they put the entire plot beat for beat into the trailer.
All visual spectacle. Might aswell have zero dialogue in these products.
And the visuals aren’t even that good.
In what world is morbius a hit and rated favourably by consumers ? I've not heard a single good thing about that film from anyone, it's shit and treated as shit.
And as stated, inconsistencies in films are common as feck. You yourself have admitted as much.
Going back to the original point, this thread has just become a chamber for all things anti marvel, whether valid or not, and dilutes any point made.
For instance on this page, there's a random post of a cinema with nothing but morbius posters on the wall. That has absolutely nothing to do with Scorseses point, and everything to do with bad management. It could be any poster for by film.
The irony.
Anywho, I actually like @Sweet Square and think his mission of all things anti marvel is somewhat hilarious. Let's not pretend however that this thread has anything to do with scorseses point anymore though, it doesn't, its just a place to post anything anti marvel/blockbuster.
Well, relative to conventional movies it's successful, since Morbius took no 1 box office and is already in the top 10 for top grossing movies of the year. It's rated C+ on Cinemascores, 69% fresh on RT and 71% like on google.
And I feel like with your last sentence you're again missing the point - again:
Despite it's abyssmal critics there are theaters plastering their walls with the movie.
It's okay that you're a Marvel fan, it's okay that you liked this movie, but you also have to accept that not everyone shares your opinion.
How much of that is pandemic related? Like there hasn't been much getting released and even less released exclusively in cinemas recently.
Personally, judging a film blind i'd go by imdb score. It has a 5.2 which is dogshit. That'll probably fall as it gets a wider release putting it into laughably bad territory.
I haven't heard a single good thing about it from anyone.
Morbius by all definitions of comic book success is a failure, it opened lower than projected (which was already projected low due to low interest) took no1 due to a lack of competition, is taking a 65% second weekend drop losing no1 spot to Sonic 2, has terrible reviews for a superhero film, has a 2nd lowest cinemascore for a marvel adapted film, poor word of mouth.
So yeah by most definitions its a flop as the post you quoted pointed out.
Morbius is a flop and absolutely no one has said otherwise. You're pushing a false narrative.
You've seen one theatre plaster its walls in posters and that proves scorseses point at a whole? Nope can't be bad management, couldn't have an issue with suppliers, couldn't be any other reason other than marvel isn't cinema? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
What movie did I like sorry? I've literally not mentioned any movie I've supposedly watched
Morbius is a flop and absolutely no one has said otherwise. You're pushing a false narrative.
You've seen one theatre plaster its walls in posters and that proves scorseses point at a whole? Nope can't be bad management, couldn't have an issue with suppliers, couldn't be any other reason other than marvel isn't cinema? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
What movie did I like sorry? I've literally not mentioned any movie I've supposedly watched
I understand that using the word "hit" wasn't precise language. But it looks to me like the movie is commercially successful and the three audience ratings I posted are far ahead of the RT or MT scores, too. I mean a C+ rating hardly screams "turd" to me.
And I assumed from your emotional ranting and missing the points of the posts that you're more on the standing ovations side of the marvel enjoyer spectrum.
Have their even been 10 movies getting wide spread cinema releases this year?
Looking it up and it grossed less than a godfather rerelease and Jackass 4 and yes, top 10 does mean 10th. I guess pushing that arthouse darling Gal Gadot into 11th place with the masterpiece that is Death on the Nile just shows what a disgusting farce modern cinema has become. Damn you Marvel!
Looking it up and it grossed less than a godfather rerelease and Jackass 4 and yes, top 10 does mean 10th. I guess pushing that arthouse darling Gal Gadot into 11th place with the masterpiece that is Death on the Nile just shows what a disgusting farce modern cinema has become. Damn you Marvel!
You're trying to spin this film as some sort of success when absolutely nobody is considering a success by any metric just to push your own narrative. It's not commercially successful at all but hey ho.
Point is, this thread has nothing to do with scorseses opinion, doesn't matter what side of the argument you sit on, this much is true. The fact that I've only used examples on the last two pages is proof of this, you yourself admitted you wouldn't have posted one of said examples. Don't think theres much left to say.
I'm going by this list:
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/world/
Three of the movies are Chinese, one Indian. So among Western movies it's 5th. Among the ones ahead are one video game adaption, one Batman movie and a reboot from a popular 90s franchise, which is sad enough as it is. It's obviously not a hit by Mavel's standards, but there's still a ton of people who willingly sign up to watch a movie they know is comically bad, just because it's from the universe they cheer on.
The fact that studios haven't produced a single big conventional movie in 2022 thus far, but instead have shit out four painting by numbers milk the franchise movies is perhaps also relevant to this thread. Though I guess looking at last year's list that shouldn't surprise us: https://www.boxofficemojo.com/year/world/2021/
I like to think there's an alternative universe where Harry Potter fans are united in collective anger at how they've milked the series to death instead of ending with the original books.
I think this discussion would have gone better if it weren't about Marvel, but 'formulaic blockbuster franchise production lines' - which appears to be the real problem here.
Oh man, ain't it the truth. Really wanted to see this but didn't realise it would virtually not be showing in the UK at all.
A darker take on the friendly ghost.
A darker take on the friendly ghost.
I'm going to have to rewatch the original before these idiots attempt to ruin my childhood
I now hate super hero movies so much I doubt that I will ever watch one again. Hatvsaid I struggle to find any films I really enjoy. Filming has declined and TV has become far more creative. In the end it is about storytelling.
A darker and gritty take on Casper The Friendly Ghost is just what we need in these times.
Yet more confirmation that this is all just a simulation
Casper the Unfriendly Ghost. Just straight up haunting random people until they descend into madness and top themselves. The story writes itself.
So just like Ole's reign then
Definitely.
You could perhaps blame Marvel in that others have seen their success and try and tap into the same nostalgia market. We now see dross like Morbius being made, a few more clunkers like that and hopefully people ease off seeing superhero movies as guaranteed bank.
So just like Ole's reign then
May as well get it done. We've already got the lead actor.
On the one hand, a gritty Casper reboot making money regardless of how shit it is is going to provide employment for a lot of doubtlessly talented people in the industry who don't have the luxury of choosing their projects. On the other hand, entertainment is a crowded market and throwing money and publicity at these cynical cash-ins on existing properties makes it harder for original storytelling to cut though. On top of that, whilst the artists, crew etc. will get a paycheck, most of the profit will go into some shareholder's investment portfolio and then into the next shitty cash grab.
I doubt there was ever really a golden age of cinema where most of the big films were original stories, rather than sequels, reboots, adaptations etc. backed by big studios, but it does feel a little ridiculous nowadays. If it wasn't for A-list actors who have made their names and money in Hollywood throwing their weight behind niche/indie productions as leads and/or execs, and technology giving us other ways to watch them other than going to the cinema, the industry would be in a pretty awful state.
In my opinion though, the biggest problem with the Marvel phenomenon is only partially about their domination of the listings. It's more about how the success of the style of movie they make has led to that style being copied to the extent that there's very little space or appetite for anything else. Again, it's not a new thing for something to work and inspire thousands of copycats. Almost every major western animated film of the last 30 years from Shrek to Moana follows the lead of Disney's decision to cast Robin Williams as the Genie in Aladdin and let him do Robin Williams-y things. It's also not a new thing for a successful film or films to come along and fundementally change a genre. Watching old films now I'm struck by the pacing, the amount of dialogue and lack of action etc. Something like Jaws would never be a blockbuster now because modern audiences have very different expectations. To take Star Wars as a high-profile example, the scene between Luke, Han, Obi-Wan et al. leaving Tatooine and arriving at Alderaan in A New Hope where they all just have a chat which reveals their world views, motivations etc. whilst they're in transit wouldn't get made now. It'd either be cut entirely or replaced by some back-and-forth quipping. I assume there must have been a moment in film where the shift started to happen and audiences responded positively.
It's the scale and scope of it that's different with Marvel over the last 15 years. After Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings there was a scattering of attempts to establish other big fantasy franchises, but there weren't several of them every year which copy and pasted the blueprint of those films right down to the timing of the comedic quips, the back-and-forth between the cast members etc. That's where we are now, in any given year a decent proportion of the top 10 films will be Marvel and half of the rest are people slapping the Marvel template onto whatever existing property they can get the rights to.
I doubt there was ever really a golden age of cinema where most of the big films were original stories, rather than sequels, reboots, adaptations etc. backed by big studios, but it does feel a little ridiculous nowadays. If it wasn't for A-list actors who have made their names and money in Hollywood throwing their weight behind niche/indie productions as leads and/or execs, and technology giving us other ways to watch them other than going to the cinema, the industry would be in a pretty awful state.
In my opinion though, the biggest problem with the Marvel phenomenon is only partially about their domination of the listings. It's more about how the success of the style of movie they make has led to that style being copied to the extent that there's very little space or appetite for anything else. Again, it's not a new thing for something to work and inspire thousands of copycats. Almost every major western animated film of the last 30 years from Shrek to Moana follows the lead of Disney's decision to cast Robin Williams as the Genie in Aladdin and let him do Robin Williams-y things. It's also not a new thing for a successful film or films to come along and fundementally change a genre. Watching old films now I'm struck by the pacing, the amount of dialogue and lack of action etc. Something like Jaws would never be a blockbuster now because modern audiences have very different expectations. To take Star Wars as a high-profile example, the scene between Luke, Han, Obi-Wan et al. leaving Tatooine and arriving at Alderaan in A New Hope where they all just have a chat which reveals their world views, motivations etc. whilst they're in transit wouldn't get made now. It'd either be cut entirely or replaced by some back-and-forth quipping. I assume there must have been a moment in film where the shift started to happen and audiences responded positively.
It's the scale and scope of it that's different with Marvel over the last 15 years. After Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings there was a scattering of attempts to establish other big fantasy franchises, but there weren't several of them every year which copy and pasted the blueprint of those films right down to the timing of the comedic quips, the back-and-forth between the cast members etc. That's where we are now, in any given year a decent proportion of the top 10 films will be Marvel and half of the rest are people slapping the Marvel template onto whatever existing property they can get the rights to.
Casper the dead little boy.